153 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

LobselVith8 wrote...
but I'd appreciate it if you made it the last time because I'm really sick and tired of your behavior towards her.

So she needs you to white knight for her because you feel she can't handle her own detractors? Just because she's a she doesn't mean she needs little protectors like you fighting battles for her, and white knights are actually rather insulting to the person they defend because it assumes "she's just a girl which means she's too weak to argue for herself".

Go cry a river.

[Xilizhra]

andy69156915 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
but I'd appreciate it if you made it the last time because I'm really sick and tired of your behavior towards her.

So she needs you to white knight for her because you feel she can't handle her own detractors? Just because she's a she doesn't mean she needs little protectors like you fighting battles for her, and white knights are actually rather insulting to the person they defend because it assumes "she's just a girl which means she's too weak to argue for herself".

Go cry a river.

Oh, yes. It's so terribly insulting to have someone criticize you for being a trenchant jerk. Watch me go be offended, inexplicably, by someone who isn't you.

[andy6915]

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, yes. It's so terribly insulting to have someone criticize you for being a trenchant jerk. Watch me go be offended, inexplicably, by someone who isn't you.

You already addressed my post pages ago, he was throwing gasoline on a fire that was almost out by attacking an argument long since done and over. So yeah, I got a bit nasty there with good reason. He doesn't need to argue in your place for you when you already did that yourself.

Modifié par andy69156915, 15 avril 2013 - 09:31 .

[Xilizhra]

andy69156915 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, yes. It's so terribly insulting to have someone criticize you for being a trenchant jerk. Watch me go be offended, inexplicably, by someone who isn't you.

You already addressed my post pages ago, he was throwing gasoline on a fire that was almost out by attacking an argument long since done and over. So yeah, I got a bit nasty there with good reason. He doesn't need to argue in your place for you when you already did that yourself.

Consider my permission granted to him.

[Asdrubael Vect]

LobselVith8 wrote...

We really don't know. The Dalish live longer, but we don't honestly know why. It's possible that it could be an indication that the elves were once immortal, but even Gaider didn't give a direct answer to explain the longevity of the Dalish. He said, "The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live."

the answer is very simple...they naturally have a much of Lyrium in their blood

.they have natural powerfull magic abilitys and they naturally have close connection with Fade

remember what type of blood Ancient Magisters and today Magisters would prefer more for their ritualls and spells

and remember that humans never possesed natural magic abilitys and not have connection with Fade, they have them through crossbredeing with Ancient Elves who after teach them magic

and as we see on Fenris, Lyrium Vassalin makes even non-mages City Elves more powerfull then any Templars(who needs to use Lirium every 2 weaks(they have even die through mounth without lyrium) to just have their abilitys, and when they need more powers) and even some Tevinters mages(who have more ancient elven blood in their veins than mages from others countries)

and they can actullly can drink Dragon Blood

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 15 avril 2013 - 09:46 .

[andy6915]

Xilizhra wrote...

Consider my permission granted to him.

So you can't argue your own battles, you don't have any self agency? Don't mind me for thinking that's pathetic then:?.

The fact that I stopped arguing to your response to me tells you that I conceded your point about Bioware contradicting themselves. So drop it, the "argument" was over long ago... And you're frankly to weak to bother with after the admission I just quoted from you.

Modifié par andy69156915, 15 avril 2013 - 09:47 .

[andy6915]

Filament wrote...

No need to throw a temper tantrum, andy, it's just a video game.

I'm actually not mad. I feel pity more then anything.

[The Hierophant]

Mark my words well andy as you should "never show sympathy to the devil".

[Iakus]

Dark Korsar wrote...

the answer is very simple...they naturally have a much of Lyrium in their blood

.they have natural powerfull magic abilitys and they naturally have close connection with Fade

remember what type of blood Ancient Magisters and today Magisters would prefer more for their ritualls and spells

and remember that humans never possesed natural magic abilitys and not have connection with Fade, they have them through crossbredeing with Ancient Elves who after teach them magic

and as we see on Fenris, Lyrium Vassalin makes even non-mages City Elves more powerfull then any Templars(who needs to use Lirium every 2 weaks(they have even die through mounth without lyrium) to just have their abilitys, and when they need more powers) and even some Tevinters mages(who have more ancient elven blood in their veins than mages from others countries)

and they can actullly can drink Dragon Blood

If anyone had lytium in their blood, it would be dwarves.  They mine the stuff, and are the only ones who can handle the stuff without going insane or dying (and it's still dangerous for them to handle pure)

Also, magic seems to be dying out among th elves, while it's increasing among humans.

Whatever it is or was about th eelves, i doubts it was a connection to magic.  If teh magisters preferred to use elves in blood sacrifices, it was more likely because tehy were slaves and thus unimportant.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No race has lyrium in the blood. Dwarves are the ones who are best capable of dealing with lyrium and it screws them up to take it right in the blood. As for Fenris, I think he was just competently exposed to the stuff. I mean, a tattoo shouldn't put the ink right in the bloodstream, would it? Maybe some capillaries, but not a major vessel.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 avril 2013 - 11:01 .

[Maria Caliban]

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

THANK YOU.

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

There's basically an issue because two developers are providing contradicting information, especially in the context of the longevity of the Dalish. I think we can discuss this and be civil to each other.

We've discussed this plenty of times, no need to discuss it further. As Emperor said, the quotes don't have to be contradictory.

Given how the Dalish live longer than the Alienage elves, I would say clarification was needed to explain that Kirby's comment could be misunderstood.

Dave of Canada wrote...

There's no evidence of the elves living longer because they distanced themselves of "quickening", there's no evidence that elves were immortal at all.

Gaider addressed the Dalish seem to live longer away from humans (while being ambiguous as to whether this was actually the case or not), so I see no reason to dismiss the possibility. The longevity of the lives of the Dalish does suggest it's a possibility.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Like I've been saying all this time, the Dalish quotes from Origins are more likely lifestyle and health-related rather than an excuse to justify racism and segeregation. 

Again, I simply addressed that Gaider said the Dalish tend to live longer lives than the Alienage elves; he was ambiguous as to why they live longer.

Furthermore, I don't find it racist for the Dalish to desire a kingdom where their culture and religion would be respected, since many Andrastians see elves as less than people, and the Chantry outlawed the elven religion.

[Ulicus]

Hm. Wouldn't the revelation that the Dalish don't live noticeably longer kind of throw the Zathrian plot out of wack? As I recall, he was framing himself as the most successful of those Dalish who had recovered a measure of their immortality, not the only one. And that, presumably, is why his lifespan never aroused a huge amount of suspicion amongst the other Dalish.

Still, it's been a long while since I played through DA:O and I could well be misremembering.

[Iakus]

Ulicus wrote...

Hm. Wouldn't the revelation that the Dalish don't live noticeably longer kind of throw the Zathrian plot out of wack? As I recall, he was framing himself as the most successful of those Dalish who had recovered a measure of their immortality, not the only one. And that, presumably, is why his lifespan never aroused a huge amount of suspicion amongst the other Dalish.

Still, it's been a long while since I played through DA:O and I could well be misremembering.

Zathrian was living noticibly longer than the other Dalish, yes.  And it was believed that he was a sign of the old immortality coming back.  I don't recall how long he had lived.  Mutiple centuries, I think.

But we don't know how much longer that is compared to the other Dalish.  Lanaya just says that Dalish live "longer" not for how much longer than other elves.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Ulicus wrote...

Hm. Wouldn't the revelation that the Dalish don't live noticeably longer kind of throw the Zathrian plot out of wack? As I recall, he was framing himself as the most successful of those Dalish who had recovered a measure of their immortality, not the only one. And that, presumably, is why his lifespan never aroused a huge amount of suspicion amongst the other Dalish.

Still, it's been a long while since I played through DA:O and I could well be misremembering.

That is the way Lanaya describes it. She does note that he is unusual even in the context of the Dalish lifespan, though she does not say he is unprecedented or (I think) use language that suggests such. She does note after the fact that it was always suspicious, however.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 17 avril 2013 - 02:23 .

[jessimaster]

Whatever Flemeth is.

[Nonorules]

Ask Flemeth.

[In Exile]

LobselVith8 wrote...
We really don't know. The Dalish live longer, but we don't honestly know why.

Except we know don't that the Dalish live longer. You're right back to being intellectually dishonest to a shocking degree to prove whatever point you support. 

Let's assume that you're right that David and Mary just contradicted each on lore. What does that prove? That their statements are inconsistent. It does not prove that the statement that you want to be true is true. 

We are literally in a situation where two sources of authority (one more recent than the other) cannot both be true. The correct approach isn't to say "the one I like more is the truth".

It's possible that it could be an indication that the elves were once immortal, but even Gaider didn't give a direct answer to explain the longevity of the Dalish. He said, "The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live."

He also said that "there are exceptional individuals among them as well, Zathrian had lived for almost three hundred years" and we know for a fact that Zathrian lived that long because of his blood-magic. 

So unless you're about to (dishonestly, like always) use Zathrian as proof for something that he isn't proof for, there's (again) absolutely no basis in the evidence that this statement suggests that the Dalish live longer than humans.

Modifié par In Exile, 17 avril 2013 - 04:24 .

[In Exile]

Ulicus wrote...

Hm. Wouldn't the revelation that the Dalish don't live noticeably longer kind of throw the Zathrian plot out of wack? As I recall, he was framing himself as the most successful of those Dalish who had recovered a measure of their immortality, not the only one. And that, presumably, is why his lifespan never aroused a huge amount of suspicion amongst the other Dalish.

Still, it's been a long while since I played through DA:O and I could well be misremembering.

Not at all. The Dalish could very well live quite long - but, as you can see, they all died (despite their so-called isolation). Aside from the fact that this should be proof enough that their racial segregation idea is stupid (even if they were immortal), the fact that some of them lived very long but within our modern range of long, and Zathrian lived 300+ years, doesn't mean there's a problem.

Marethari lived 100 years. If their lifespan is like ours (back then), then it means then most likely that has 30+ years on the usual elf. And that would, combined with their narrative about being immortal and "regaining" immortality, mean that they could be seen as that.

The other thing is that the Dalish (see Merril) could just have used bloodmagic. There's nothing to stop another Elf like Zathrian from using blood magic, sucking some shems dry of their life, and then living for 300 years to "prove" he or she was immortal.

Hell, Avernus did it just fine and he was tainted.

[LobselVith8]

In Exile wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

We really don't know. The Dalish live longer, but we don't honestly know why.

Except we know don't that the Dalish live longer. You're right back to being intellectually dishonest to a shocking degree to prove whatever point you support.

Gaider said: "Dalish tend to live longer. We're not talking into Tolkienesque numbers of years here. The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live. There are exceptional individuals among them as well, Zathrian had lived for almost three hundred years. It's going to vary but for the city elves, the elves that live inside human cities, they don't have exceptional lifespans at all."

Next time you say I'm "intellectually dishonest", you might want to try being correct about what you're talking about.

In Exile wrote...

Let's assume that you're right that David and Mary just contradicted each on lore. What does that prove? That their statements are inconsistent. It does not prove that the statement that you want to be true is true.

As Xil pointed out already, the Dalish characters in Origins already addressed that the People live longer lives.

In Exile wrote...

We are literally in a situation where two sources of authority (one more recent than the other) cannot both be true. The correct approach isn't to say "the one I like more is the truth".

Except we have Gaider's statement, the dialogue from the Dalish in Origins, and Marethari's age as an indication of what Gaider was talking about.

In Exile wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's possible that it could be an indication that the elves were once immortal, but even Gaider didn't give a direct answer to explain the longevity of the Dalish. He said, "The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live."

He also said that "there are exceptional individuals among them as well, Zathrian had lived for almost three hundred years" and we know for a fact that Zathrian lived that long because of his blood-magic.

Which is pointed out to have been unusual in Origins (including by the Lady of the Forest - who said the People thought Zathrian reclaimed the immortality of his ancestors), since Gaider already stated that the present day Dalish don't live as long as the Tolkien elves.

In Exile wrote...

So unless you're about to (dishonestly, like always) use Zathrian as proof for something that he isn't proof for, there's (again) absolutely no basis in the evidence that this statement suggests that the Dalish live longer than humans. 

I'm not the one doing mental gymnastics to try to twist Gaider's words into something they don't mean. I'm simply addressing what's actually stated - not reading between the lines for hidden messages just because you intensely dislike the elves.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 19 avril 2013 - 07:01 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Nothing Gaider said indicates anything about the Dalish living exceptionally long lives... All Gaider said was that they live longer than City Elves... Which doesn't take much.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Nothing Gaider said indicates anything about the Dalish living exceptionally long lives... All Gaider said was that they live longer than City Elves... Which doesn't take much.

I was addressing In Exile's point that was made earlier:

In Exile wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

We really don't know. The Dalish live longer, but we don't honestly know why.

Except we know don't that the Dalish live longer. You're right back to being intellectually dishonest to a shocking degree to prove whatever point you support. 

Clearly, we do know that the Dalish "live longer" because Gaider, the Dalish characters in Origins, and even Marethari's age indicate that they do live longer.

[EmperorSahlertz]

They live longer in relation to the CIty Elves. And that is not a feat worthy of applause. We have no way of knowing if they live longer due to "regained immortality" or merely live longer because of cleaner livings.