240 réponses à ce sujet

[PwrdOff]

_ShadowHawk wrote...

This is kind of like calling up your ex and demanding to know why (s)he cheated on you a year after you broke up.

Yes I've moved on. Hell no I've not "forgiven" a damn thing. And there are people who actually *enjoyed* Jar Jar Binks. That doesn't make the character objectively suck less.

Bottom line: trust broken. Never again pre-order a BioWare game. Wait a month or so for player feedback regarding game completion. Lesson learned.

Wait, so does that mean Bioware is Shepard, and we're the VS?

[SpamBot2000]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

For those of you (OP)...who clearly dislike Bioware and ME3...why are you still here posting in the ME3 forums?

I have said it before...and I will say it again...Haters like you are absolutely the worst kind of people.

This is the most correct forum for ME3 feedback in the known universe. And BioWare have certainly never acknowledged the substance of much of this feedback, preferring instead to insult their audience for not "understanding" how brilliantly they lifted the "decision chamber" from Deus Ex: Human Revolution and grafted the Foundation crap on it to terminate the Mass Effect setting that I for one really, really liked. So I guess they need some more telling.

I wouldn't stoop to throwing accusations of "absolutely worst kind of people" so goddamn lightly as you do, but I have to say I find it distressing what enablers like you are doing to our beloved gaming franchises. "So, you want to ruin the whole great trilogy you made and we paid for just to underline that you don't want to make a sequel? Well, as fans we are clearly obligated to cheer you for doing that and call everyone who isn't sufficiently worshipful the absolute dregs of humanity! Woohoo!"

 

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 14 avril 2013 - 08:15 .

[Damien-III]

BNN999 wrote...

_ShadowHawk wrote...

This is kind of like calling up your ex and demanding to know why (s)he cheated on you a year after you broke up.

Yes I've moved on. Hell no I've not "forgiven" a damn thing. And there are people who actually *enjoyed* Jar Jar Binks. That doesn't make the character objectively suck less.

Bottom line: trust broken. Never again pre-order a BioWare game. Wait a month or so for player feedback regarding game completion. Lesson learned.

Wait, so does that mean Bioware is Shepard, and we're the VS?

Kind of. Only that the Horizon conversation is now a year long.

[Archonsg]

@shadowhawke

I know what you mean.
Been on the old forum for ages too, Then as Silvarian, and later Archon/Archonsg as my personas were lost due to account snafus.

But yes would have preferred if they allowed for customer details transfer and continuity, yes?

Then again, when old meets new, usually the old gets thrown out.

[RukiaKuchki]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Has it really become a social taboo on BSN to like ME3?

At best, ME is escapism. At it's core, it's a freaking game. It's not rational at all to be insecure about how other people feel about a videogame. Come back down to Earth, please.

OMG this.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

An unrepentent can never truly be forgiven. Bioware's next game will show whether forgiveness is possible.




That said, even if I harp on the ending quite a bit, I also readily acknowledge that the Mass Effect series is among the greatest game series I've played thusfar... which makes how Bioware handled the ending all the more dissappointing.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 14 avril 2013 - 11:53 .

[tschamp]

Forgive Bioware? They did what they felt was the right thing to do for their product. All that stuff that was said before the release of ME3, which I didn't read because I wanted to be surprised, was typical hype. The stuff that was said after the release was typical damage control. Should I be upset about that? No. I am upset at myself for not doing what I typically do, wait until after the price of the game drops down to 19.99 and buy it.

I enjoyed ME 1 and 2. I had a lot of problems with ME 3 because I bought it at full price. It wasn't just because of the ending either. (Game Controls, glitches, and that awful mission tracker bs) Then there were the hype 10/10 reviews that were outright misleading. That isn't Bioware's fault. That is the reviewers fault.

I have nothing to forgive Bioware for, but I have learned a very harsh lesson. One, never buy a game at full price. Two, listen to players of the game and not the reviewers.

[Taboo]

Because I'm an adult.

[Mylia Stenetch]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Because I'm an adult.

This. People will always make mistakes, it happens in games and companies all the time. I am not going to put stress on my life or hold a grudge over something so small.

[carter 1983]

because its a game and as they said at the end on the citadel dlc, it's been a good ride :-)

[spirosz]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Because I'm an adult.

This. People will always make mistakes, it happens in games and companies all the time. I am not going to put stress on my life or hold a grudge over something so small.

[SpamBot2000]

Intentional sabotage is not a "mistake". Sure, they didn't do it in order to hurt their customers... but they did it not giving a good goddamn if it did.

[TemplePhoenix]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Intentional sabotage is not a "mistake". Sure, they didn't do it in order to hurt their customers... but they did it not giving a good goddamn if it did.

Ummm... pretty sure the people who spent months of their life working on the game, and whose future employment prospects are fairly directly tied in with the reaction to said game, do indeed "give a good goddamn." In fact, I'm willing to bet they care a hell of a lot more than us.

They made mistakes. It happens. But "intentional sabotage" is just... stupid.

Oh, and P.S, not being a "hater" does not automatically make you a "brownnose", or vice versa. The vast majority of people here fall into a happy middle ground, where they can criticise the parts of the game they didn't like while still feeling able to celebrate the the parts they did. It's the extremists at either pole that ruin this place for everyone else.

[SpamBot2000]

TemplePhoenix wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Intentional sabotage is not a "mistake". Sure, they didn't do it in order to hurt their customers... but they did it not giving a good goddamn if it did.

Ummm... pretty sure the people who spent months of their life working on the game, and whose future employment prospects are fairly directly tied in with the reaction to said game, do indeed "give a good goddamn." In fact, I'm willing to bet they care a hell of a lot more than us.

They made mistakes. It happens. But "intentional sabotage" is just... stupid.

Yet such things happen. Maybe even BECAUSE these guys spent YEARS working on the game. And I don't see the reaction to the game having a Massive Effect on their employment status, though I think it was likely they just thought their captive audience would applaud literally anything they did. And to be fair, many seem to do exactly that. Or shrug it off as business as usual.

There is such a thing as "enabling", and it takes some resolve to break that cycle.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 14 avril 2013 - 03:43 .

[Calibrations Expert]

They fix, they add, they enhance. Why should we not forgive?

[Dunabar]

TemplePhoenix wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Intentional sabotage is not a "mistake". Sure, they didn't do it in order to hurt their customers... but they did it not giving a good goddamn if it did.

Ummm... pretty sure the people who spent months of their life working on the game, and whose future employment prospects are fairly directly tied in with the reaction to said game, do indeed "give a good goddamn." In fact, I'm willing to bet they care a hell of a lot more than us.

They made mistakes. It happens. But "intentional sabotage" is just... stupid.

Oh, and P.S, not being a "hater" does not automatically make you a "brownnose", or vice versa. The vast majority of people here fall into a happy middle ground, where they can criticise the parts of the game they didn't like while still feeling able to celebrate the the parts they did. It's the extremists at either pole that ruin this place for everyone else.

Don't let them hear you say that, they may start another movement.

Serious note though..

Is it so hard for people to get sleep at night knowing there are people that just don't agree with their stance on ME3? >.>

Modifié par Dunabar, 14 avril 2013 - 03:44 .

[TheProtheans]

spirosz wrote...

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Because I'm an adult.

This. People will always make mistakes, it happens in games and companies all the time. I am not going to put stress on my life or hold a grudge over something so small.

F**k that is so true.
I'm finished with Revenge, f**k you Amanda.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 14 avril 2013 - 03:45 .

[SpamBot2000]

Dunabar wrote...

Serious note though..

Is it so hard for people to get sleep at night knowing there are people that just don't agree with their stance on ME3? >.>

Well, a serious question deserves a serious answer. I guess I am somewhat bothered by how easily many people are letting shoddy practices slide, because that makes a repeat performance all the more likely. The state of gaming could be much improved if people decided it should be.

As to why people who claim to be satisfied with BW's products and actions are so militant against differing opinions, it is a little odd. Don't these people have everything they wanted? Are they so thirsty for some kind of a full spectrum dominance that they will tolerate no other opinion? Or is their satisfaction so precariously grounded that they are terrified it will shatter when exposed to any doubt? "Must... ignore... obvious... flaws... at... any... cost!"

That would explain the toxic bile of the "positive" folks. Cognitive dissonance is painful. Makes people want to lash out.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 14 avril 2013 - 03:55 .

[megamacka]

I think a lot of the hate and feedback that they received were well warranted.
However, some of it were not. As usual people overreacted. I am still angry and disappointed one year later. and Bioware went from my all time favorite company, to the most disappointing one. And I wont buy any of their products on day 1 anymore. If I buy them at all. I'll probably pick em up on a sale when the price tag has dropped A LOT.

I mean, ME3 was still a '' good '' game. But '' good '' isn't enough for me to get excited and love something. I don't regret playing it at all, I was just disappointed. And I felt like they took a HUGE step backwards. I am semi looking forward to DA3. But only to see if Bioware still got that spark.

I wont hold my breath tho.

Modifié par megamacka, 14 avril 2013 - 03:58 .

[Linkenski]

Since i'm having low expectations for ME4, i bet they can surprise me, but if they don't i think that's my curtain call as a fan.

[Dunabar]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Dunabar wrote...

Serious note though..

Is it so hard for people to get sleep at night knowing there are people that just don't agree with their stance on ME3? >.>

Well, a serious question deserves a serious answer. I guess I am somewhat bothered by how easily many people are letting shoddy practices slide, because that makes a repeat performance all the more likely. The state of gaming could be much improved if people decided it should be.

As to why people who claim to be satisfied with BW's products and actions are so militant against differing opinions, it is a little odd. Don't these people have everything they wanted? Are they so thirsty for some kind of a full spectrum dominance that they will tolerate no other opinion? Or is their satisfaction so precariously grounded that they are terrified it will shatter when exposed to any doubt? "Must... ignore... obvious... flaws... at... any... cost!"

That would explain the toxic bile of the "positive" folks. Cognitive dissonance is painful. Makes people want to lash out.

Okay here is my little 2 cents to go into the smew of everything of what I dub as "The ME3 conflict"

Just fyi SpamBot2000 when I say "You" in this, I don't mean you, yourself.

You have three points in this conflict. The Pro-ME3 lovers, the Pro-ME3 Haters, and the folks in the middle ground.

I myself am of the middle ground but I lean more in the direction of the Pro-ME3 lovers in the sense that I love Mass effect 3. I honestly do love this game, I like the story, I like the direction, the feeling, and more. Is there anything I don't like about the game? Yeah a few small things (small in my opinion anyways), but it doesn't mean I don't love the game still. The common thing though that has sparked most of this overgrown flame war is exactly the same thing we all have in common, it's an Opinion. Here though is how I feel about opinions..

Opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one, and if you don't like their opinion get your nose out of their ***

Problem is though is that people don't want to just shrug it and let it go, they want to fight, they want to feel like their reason for their opinion is to be the beacon of light the community should look to. But see neither the Pro sides are actually entirely in the right, you actually need a balance. Too much love for the game doesn't help the company develop something new for the next one, however too much hate may also discourage the company for trying something new in fear of getting a lot of backlash again. So you really do need to balance out your likes and dislikes about the game. However, at the same time you need to also learn not to take it to heart that someone disagrees with you. At this point you can talk about it like civil folks, argue about it like little children, or just nod your head to agree to disagree.

Some people wanted chocolate ice cream and they got vanilla ice cream, so they complain that they didn't get their  chocolate ice cream.

Some people wanted chocolate ice cream, got vanilla ice cream, and said "You know I actually kind of like this. Everyone shut up about the vanilla ice cream and enjoy it!"

But in the end, do you know who is truly in the wrong in it all? It's both the extreme haters and lovers, but it's also neither of them at the same time. How and Why? Because again you need the haters to be vocal about what they didn't like in the game so the company can review it. But you also need the lovers to point out what they loved about the game so the company isn't afraid to try new edgy things in the future.

The key is Balance

As for me, I'm not afraid to tell people what I loved or what I disliked about Mass Effect 3. If people lose sleep over my opinions of what I liked or disliked about the game, is that my issue to deal with or theirs? I think the answer is pretty obvious. I will drop my two cents where I want to, speak my opinion, discuss it as civil as I can, and move on with my life from there. None of us need to lose sleep or experience pain over a simple difference of opinion, even more so when the opinion is based on a G.A.M.E...

Modifié par Dunabar, 14 avril 2013 - 05:23 .

[Clayless]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Dunabar wrote...

Serious note though..

Is it so hard for people to get sleep at night knowing there are people that just don't agree with their stance on ME3? >.>

Well, a serious question deserves a serious answer. I guess I am somewhat bothered by how easily many people are letting shoddy practices slide, because that makes a repeat performance all the more likely. The state of gaming could be much improved if people decided it should be.

As to why people who claim to be satisfied with BW's products and actions are so militant against differing opinions, it is a little odd. Don't these people have everything they wanted? Are they so thirsty for some kind of a full spectrum dominance that they will tolerate no other opinion? Or is their satisfaction so precariously grounded that they are terrified it will shatter when exposed to any doubt? "Must... ignore... obvious... flaws... at... any... cost!"

That would explain the toxic bile of the "positive" folks. Cognitive dissonance is painful. Makes people want to lash out.

You're mistaken, I think you'll find there were many of who fought against the shoddy practices of the Retake movement. If we didn't then it would make a repeat performance all the more likely. The state of gaming will be much improved if things like that never happen again.

And your second paragraph is an even bigger delusion. Look at your entire post, what points do you make that's not just complete and utter nonsense? Not one. You wont see this of course, despite it being painfully obvious ("their satisfaction so precariously grounded that they are terrified", oh please this can't be serious) and you'll probably be so shocked that someone pointed this out to you that you'll warp this into something completely different with a delusional victim mentality.

You're vastly mistaken if you think hostility towards people like you is because of doubts about ME3 or Bioware in general. I cannot stress how very, very wrong you are for thinking that.

[Barquiel]

Although the ending is crap I don't hold a grudge against Bioware for this. I'm still interested in what they make next.

[SpamBot2000]

Robosexual wrote...

You're mistaken, I think you'll find there were many of who fought against the shoddy practices of the Retake movement. If we didn't then it would make a repeat performance all the more likely. The state of gaming will be much improved if things like that never happen again.

And your second paragraph is an even bigger delusion. Look at your entire post, what points do you make that's not just complete and utter nonsense? Not one. You wont see this of course, despite it being painfully obvious ("their satisfaction so precariously grounded that they are terrified", oh please this can't be serious) and you'll probably be so shocked that someone pointed this out to you that you'll warp this into something completely different with a delusional victim mentality.

You're vastly mistaken if you think hostility towards people like you is because of doubts about ME3 or Bioware in general. I cannot stress how very, very wrong you are for thinking that.

What "shoddy practices" would those be? Certainly not fraudulent marketing, then turning around and insulting the people whose money they took with lies. Because they weren't selling anything, remember?

As for your hysterics over "delusions", that's still a step back from your previous diagnosis of "rabies", so I guess you're slowly coming around to your senses.

And your underlined superlatives... have you considered filling a balloon or a zeppelin with that hot air? You could go a long way with one.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 14 avril 2013 - 05:41 .

[1490]

It seems, OP, that you are more interested in ranting than actually asking for opinions, but OK, I'll bite.

I forgave Bioware because they fixed (or did their best job attempting to fix) what I originally had problems with: the ending choices being exactly the same, having no explanation, and being incredibly abrupt. They explained everything that was unanswered through the EC and Leviathan DLCs (whether or not you believe the plot was well-thought or rational is another argument). I thought EC and the Citadel DLC added enough NPC material to give them a good sendoff and make the overall journey with them through the trilogy worthwhile.

Was the ending of Mass Effect what I would have chosen if I was the writer? No, but I support a writer's choice to end his/her own story how he/she sees fit, even if it pisses other people off. And while it wasn't the ending I expected, I thought with the EC included it was well-done. Obviously I'm not going to convince you, OP, or anyone else who unconditionally hates ME and Bioware now, but that's the explanation you asked for.