132 réponses à ce sujet

[Angrywolves]

I liked Anora so I wouldn't mind her as a party member but I think it's unlikely. More likely to meet her child or children in some future DA game.

[Fiacre]

King Cousland wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Gee it is almost as if Queen Anora holds hardly any power at all, and here I thought she was supposed to be the mastermind behind all of Cailan's schemes, how can Anora be an effective queen if she lacks the authority to command her own kingdom?

She was the queen consort to a very inept ruler. Cailan was quite happy to let Anora take care of the politics while he was off seeking adventure, bedding women and planning to ditch his wife for the empress of Orlais. 

Once Cailan dies, what power does Anora have? Her role as queen was titular, she officialy had no power, and when Loghain comes onto the scene, she's faced with somebody who actually does want to rule personally, unlike Cailan. 

It isn't "her own kingdom". It's a kingdom in which she is a widow whose father now sits on the throne.  

This. And it's not like she told you that she doesn't want to rule in a husband's name any more -- very much stating that Cailan was where she got her power from -- and insists on being made Queen Regnant... Oh wait, you'd actually have to bother talking to her to hear this which the game tells you to do only, like, a million times.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Uggghh this is pointless, Dragon Age is no Game of Thrones or the Witcher 2 and trying to find logic where there is none is a pointless exercise. Fact is the plot of Origins is a mess best not looked too deeply into lest you stumble and fall into one of its gaping plot holes of which there are many.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Uggghh this is pointless, Dragon Age is no Game of Thrones or the Witcher 2 and trying to find logic where there is none is a pointless exercise. Fact is the plot of Origins is a mess best not looked too deeply into lest you stumble and fall into one of its gaping plot holes of which there are many.

You're a troll and frankly not a very good or subtle one. You have no registered games, which is indicator number one of a troll here on BSN. Secondly your name:

Mister Mxyzptlk, a trickster in the DC Universe. Yes, you're very clever I'm sure.
Your attempts to provoke have worked, but I would say only on easy troll bait among members of the BSN, some of whom are far too thin-skinnned and easily butthurt by cheap and easy stabs. Witcher 2 and Game of Thrones>Dragon Age. Wow! You must have put a lot of thought into that remark. It's not at all a facile dig at fans of the series who are upset over a less than spectacular sequel to a beloved first game. Do you really have nothing better to do with your free time?

[DragonMage95]

I would love to see her having a cameo in DA3, I was sad when there wasn't much mention of Anora and my Cousland being married in DA2. Also, I think it'd be interesting to see what she has to say about the Wardens disappearance, especially if the two are wed.

[DragonMage95]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Uggghh this is pointless, Dragon Age is no Game of Thrones or the Witcher 2 and trying to find logic where there is none is a pointless exercise. Fact is the plot of Origins is a mess best not looked too deeply into lest you stumble and fall into one of its gaping plot holes of which there are many.

You're a troll and frankly not a very good or subtle one. You have no registered games, which is indicator number one of a troll here on BSN. Secondly your name:

Mister Mxyzptlk, a trickster in the DC Universe. Yes, you're very clever I'm sure.
Your attempts to provoke have worked, but I would say only on easy troll bait among members of the BSN, some of whom are far too thin-skinnned and easily butthurt by cheap and easy stabs. Witcher 2 and Game of Thrones>Dragon Age. Wow! You must have put a lot of thought into that remark. It's not at all a facile dig at fans of the series who are upset over a less than spectacular sequel to a beloved first game. Do you really have nothing better to do with your free time?

Also, i'm pretty sure Dragon Age took some inspiration from A Song of Ice and Fire, so there's that.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Uggghh this is pointless, Dragon Age is no Game of Thrones or the Witcher 2 and trying to find logic where there is none is a pointless exercise. Fact is the plot of Origins is a mess best not looked too deeply into lest you stumble and fall into one of its gaping plot holes of which there are many.

You're a troll and frankly not a very good or subtle one. You have no registered games, which is indicator number one of a troll here on BSN. Secondly your name:

Mister Mxyzptlk, a trickster in the DC Universe. Yes, you're very clever I'm sure.
Your attempts to provoke have worked, but I would say only on easy troll bait among members of the BSN, some of whom are far too thin-skinnned and easily butthurt by cheap and easy stabs. Witcher 2 and Game of Thrones>Dragon Age. Wow! You must have put a lot of thought into that remark. It's not at all a facile dig at fans of the series who are upset over a less than spectacular sequel to a beloved first game. Do you really have nothing better to do with your free time?

You forgot the avatar.

That being said what I said is not trolling, if you think it is then by all means tell me I am wrong, tell me that Origins is in fact a masterpiece of video game writing and everything within it makes perfect sense and that there are no plot holes to be found whatsoever. You only need glance at this thread and how hard its posters have to stretch to find explanations for the plot to see that isn't true.

Believe it or not I enjoyed Origins but I am not going to lie or make the game out to be greater than it is.

[DragonMage95]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Uggghh this is pointless, Dragon Age is no Game of Thrones or the Witcher 2 and trying to find logic where there is none is a pointless exercise. Fact is the plot of Origins is a mess best not looked too deeply into lest you stumble and fall into one of its gaping plot holes of which there are many.

You're a troll and frankly not a very good or subtle one. You have no registered games, which is indicator number one of a troll here on BSN. Secondly your name:

Mister Mxyzptlk, a trickster in the DC Universe. Yes, you're very clever I'm sure.
Your attempts to provoke have worked, but I would say only on easy troll bait among members of the BSN, some of whom are far too thin-skinnned and easily butthurt by cheap and easy stabs. Witcher 2 and Game of Thrones>Dragon Age. Wow! You must have put a lot of thought into that remark. It's not at all a facile dig at fans of the series who are upset over a less than spectacular sequel to a beloved first game. Do you really have nothing better to do with your free time?

You forgot the avatar.

That being said what I said is not trolling, if you think it is then by all means tell me I am wrong, tell me that Origins is in fact a masterpiece of video game writing and everything within it makes perfect sense and that there are no plot holes to be found whatsoever. You only need glance at this thread and how hard its posters have to stretch to find explanations for the plot to see that isn't true.

Believe it or not I enjoyed Origins but I am not going to lie or make the game out to be greater than it is.

Sometimes plot holes are put in games on purpose in order to solve them in future games and to add them in the story line. I believe one of the devs of DA said that the plot holes were there for a reason and that they would come back to them in the future.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Uggghh this is pointless, Dragon Age is no Game of Thrones or the Witcher 2 and trying to find logic where there is none is a pointless exercise. Fact is the plot of Origins is a mess best not looked too deeply into lest you stumble and fall into one of its gaping plot holes of which there are many.

You're a troll and frankly not a very good or subtle one. You have no registered games, which is indicator number one of a troll here on BSN. Secondly your name:

Mister Mxyzptlk, a trickster in the DC Universe. Yes, you're very clever I'm sure.
Your attempts to provoke have worked, but I would say only on easy troll bait among members of the BSN, some of whom are far too thin-skinnned and easily butthurt by cheap and easy stabs. Witcher 2 and Game of Thrones>Dragon Age. Wow! You must have put a lot of thought into that remark. It's not at all a facile dig at fans of the series who are upset over a less than spectacular sequel to a beloved first game. Do you really have nothing better to do with your free time?

You forgot the avatar.

That being said what I said is not trolling, if you think it is then by all means tell me I am wrong, tell me that Origins is in fact a masterpiece of video game writing and everything within it makes perfect sense and that there are no plot holes to be found whatsoever. You only need glance at this thread and how hard its posters have to stretch to find explanations for the plot to see that isn't true.

Believe it or not I enjoyed Origins but I am not going to lie or make the game out to be greater than it is.

There isn't a work of fiction in the entire world that is entirely flawless and free of plotholes. Some of my favourite movies, games, books, and comics have plotholes you could fly an Imperial Star Destroyer into. You seem intelligent (for a noxious troll and a self-admitted one, which is bad form- trolls are never supposed to admit they are such) and likely know what a plothole is. Many people on the interwebs don't know. They consider a plothole something they simply didn't like in a work of fiction, not something that logically didn't make sense (e.g. a character suddenly knowing something they would have absolutely no reason to know, that's written just to expediate that advancement of the plot) or is incredibly poorly explained, either because of weak narrative or in the case of a movie, sloppy editing.

Origins is not a masterpiece, but it is still a cut above a great many games out there. It has a lot of heart and the main characters are all quite likeable, each for their own reasons. The story itself is stock standard heroic fantasy that you can go over with a checklist of cliches and tropes, however its saving grace in this respect is that it knows when not to take itself too seriously and the writers are well aware of these cliches and tropes and aren't just regurgitating them on autopilot, without so much as a hint of humour or irony, the way other RPG-producing developers might (something I find much of the content Bethsoft produces for their TES series is 100% guilty of). I hate stuff that is entirely po-faced. It ends up being boring, self-important tripe that's far weaker and sillier than its creators might realize.

[Silfren]

DomRod95 wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Uggghh this is pointless, Dragon Age is no Game of Thrones or the Witcher 2 and trying to find logic where there is none is a pointless exercise. Fact is the plot of Origins is a mess best not looked too deeply into lest you stumble and fall into one of its gaping plot holes of which there are many.

You're a troll and frankly not a very good or subtle one. You have no registered games, which is indicator number one of a troll here on BSN. Secondly your name:

Mister Mxyzptlk, a trickster in the DC Universe. Yes, you're very clever I'm sure.
Your attempts to provoke have worked, but I would say only on easy troll bait among members of the BSN, some of whom are far too thin-skinnned and easily butthurt by cheap and easy stabs. Witcher 2 and Game of Thrones>Dragon Age. Wow! You must have put a lot of thought into that remark. It's not at all a facile dig at fans of the series who are upset over a less than spectacular sequel to a beloved first game. Do you really have nothing better to do with your free time?

You forgot the avatar.

That being said what I said is not trolling, if you think it is then by all means tell me I am wrong, tell me that Origins is in fact a masterpiece of video game writing and everything within it makes perfect sense and that there are no plot holes to be found whatsoever. You only need glance at this thread and how hard its posters have to stretch to find explanations for the plot to see that isn't true.

Believe it or not I enjoyed Origins but I am not going to lie or make the game out to be greater than it is.

Sometimes plot holes are put in games on purpose in order to solve them in future games and to add them in the story line. I believe one of the devs of DA said that the plot holes were there for a reason and that they would come back to them in the future.

I'm not sure that's what a plot hole is, though.  I've always understood plot holes to be contradictions within the plot; i.e. something like the fact that the lore of DA, and Word of Gaider, stated clearly that lyrium is required for templar abilities...despite Alistair bluntly stating it is not necessary at all.  THAT'S a plot hole.

[Silfren]

Angrywolves wrote...

I liked Anora so I wouldn't mind her as a party member but I think it's unlikely. More likely to meet her child or children in some future DA game.

Actually I highly doubt you'll ever meet any children of Anora.  I read somewhere a long time ago that regardless of the monarch on the throne, Alistair or Anora alone, the two of them together, or one paired with the Warden, there would be no children to be had, in order to facilitate a future game.  I don't know that it was ever verified, but it makes perfect sense to go that route for the stated reason.

[Silfren]

Blackrising wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Blackrising wrote...
But wasn't the whole thing more of a ruse? It's been a while since I played DA:O, but I always thought it was a deliberate move on her part. Building a connection with the Hero of Ferelden and all that...

If that was Anora's plan, then she doesn't even have the commonsense that God gave dirt. She has no reason to think the Warden will come for her.

The current working plan is to put Alistair on the throne. Anora is an obstacle to that goal and sneaking into an enemy fort to save her is a stupid and unnecessary risk that the Warden shouldn't even be attempting, and when he does, she sells him up the river the minute they get caught.

Anora is Loghain's daughter. Someone he is close to, someone who knows him well. She was also married to Cailan and therefore should have plenty of knowledge of what's going on. Arl Eamon and co. might want to put Alistair on the throne, yes, but they still need a damn good case to convince the Landsmeet that Loghain, a war hero, is the one who betrayed his own country.
No matter what they have planned for the throne, contact with Anora is a powerful advantage, especially if they can tell the Landsmeet that Loghain has gone crazy enough to lock up his own daughter.
I'd say Anora has every reason to think the Warden will come for her.
(Not that it isn't a risk, but it's one worth taking.)

I mean, Anora is not stupid. She may be ruthless and cunning and cold, but I've yet to see her act stupid.
That's actually what I like about her. She's efficient, gets stuff done and knows that politics aren't all puppies and rainbows.

Cold, maybe, but I see no evidence of cunning or efficiency.

You know how she sells you out if you get caught and mention her to Ser Cauthrien? That's what I call efficient and, yes, cunning. She switches sides at a moment's notice as soon as she realizes that her plan to ally with the Warden will not work out like she'd hoped. That requires quick thinking and a ruthless efficiency.
The same way she will side with Loghain at the Landsmeet if the Warden turns out to be unable to make a good case against him.

Anora talks a big game, but talking is all she does. Being 'the brains' behind Cailan is nothing to brag about. What impressive things did Cailan even do that Anora can take credit for? If she's so damn smart then why did she stand around like a gaping trout while Loghain singlehandedly destroyed the crown's relationship with the rest of the nobility with his gobsmacking lack of tact? In what sense is that efficient? If she's such a capable ruler, why did she hide behind her deranged father's drooling idiocy, rather than take the chance to prove herself?

Anora had her chance to rule and she blew it, I'll take the inexperienced newcomer over the proven failure, thanks.

She kept Ferelden running smoothly and prosperous, that's no small feat. But what makes me think of her as...well, a true Slytherin, actually...is that nobody knew that Cailan ruling was merely for show. How difficult must it have been to run the whole thing while still seeming the loyal, obedient wife who will follow her husband wherever he may lead? And I'm not saying that having her on the throne alone is the ideal solution. I think she'd do good with someone there to remind her that sometimes a ruler needs to see more in his or her people than chess pieces.

As for 'standing around like a trout'...would you tell me which scene you mean? I can only think of the one in Denerim and the Landsmeet...as I said, it's been a while since I played the game.
But either way, Loghain was still her father. Anora is not made of ice, even she's bound to emotions. There are numerous reasons why she did not stop her father sooner. She obviously planned the Landsmeet in advance, so she might have been waiting for the right opportunity. Or she simply hesitated because let's face it, who wants to believe that their own father has gone crazy, betrayed his country and killed their husband?
I don't see how she could have gone up against Loghain without the support of someone like the Warden. Loghain is a respected war hero. The general of the royal army, a honorable man for all the population knows. And then we have Anora. Nobody kows she was ruling in Cailan's stead. She comes across as cold and ****y. Any protest she might have made could have been easily squashed by Loghain claiming she is simply beside herself with grief over the death of her husband.



Anyway, long story short: Maybe we simply haven't seen enough of her to know for certain. It seems interpretation of the game differs.

I agree with you on some points, if not all.  But it simply is not true that nobody knew Anora was ruling behind the scenes.  There are several comments sprinkled throughout the entire game that strongly indicate that the nobility and the peasantry were all aware that Anora was the true ruler, if not the official one.

[Plaintiff]

Gallimatia wrote...
I think the main idea was to get Howe killed or removed from Loghain's inner circle. He was the competition for her father's ear. She was willing to take a risk to get rid of him. Nah who am I kidding there was no risk Loghain's word is law.

And we all know Arl Howe would never break the law.

[Blackrising]

Silfren wrote...


I agree with you on some points, if not all.  But it simply is not true that nobody knew Anora was ruling behind the scenes.  There are several comments sprinkled throughout the entire game that strongly indicate that the nobility and the peasantry were all aware that Anora was the true ruler, if not the official one.

Can you quote some of those comments? Not doubting you, just curious. I can't claim to remember everything about Origins.

[Sabariel]

Blackrising wrote...

Silfren wrote...


I agree with you on some points, if not all.  But it simply is not true that nobody knew Anora was ruling behind the scenes.  There are several comments sprinkled throughout the entire game that strongly indicate that the nobility and the peasantry were all aware that Anora was the true ruler, if not the official one.

Can you quote some of those comments? Not doubting you, just curious. I can't claim to remember everything about Origins.

From Anora's codex entry:

It is common knowledge that in the five years Anora and Cailan held the throne together, she was the one wielding the power.

[horacethegrey]

Sabariel wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Silfren wrote...


I agree with you on some points, if not all.  But it simply is not true that nobody knew Anora was ruling behind the scenes.  There are several comments sprinkled throughout the entire game that strongly indicate that the nobility and the peasantry were all aware that Anora was the true ruler, if not the official one.

Can you quote some of those comments? Not doubting you, just curious. I can't claim to remember everything about Origins.

From Anora's codex entry:

It is common knowledge that in the five years Anora and Cailan held the throne together, she was the one wielding the power.

Arl Eamon also praises Anpra on being a good administrator after you rescue her from Arl Howe.

[Silfren]

Blackrising wrote...

Silfren wrote...


I agree with you on some points, if not all.  But it simply is not true that nobody knew Anora was ruling behind the scenes.  There are several comments sprinkled throughout the entire game that strongly indicate that the nobility and the peasantry were all aware that Anora was the true ruler, if not the official one.

Can you quote some of those comments? Not doubting you, just curious. I can't claim to remember everything about Origins.

Off the top of my head, I can't point you to any scenes or direct quotes, no.  Given the time I think I could track a few down, but I'll be a while in doing that, so don't expect any quotes too soon.    But there is that codex that was already pointed to, though it isn't the only thing I recall.  There are several comments throughout the game that spark my memory.  Not always in direct dialogue with the Warden.

[Senya]

She does tell you so to your face when you ask her if she'd be a good queen. She tells you she has been one for the past five years. And when you talk to Loghain if you spare him, he mentions the Banns all knew where the real power lay.

[K_Tabris]

In both my games, I convinced Alistair to marry Anora. I think it would be nice to see how both of them are getting along 15-20 years after.

[Mike3207]

If they do retcon King Alistair and Anora dying of blight sickness, that's reason enough for me to not get the game. Otherwise, they may as well not even have given you choices at the Landsmeet.

[Blackrising]

Sabariel wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Silfren wrote...


I agree with you on some points, if not all.  But it simply is not true that nobody knew Anora was ruling behind the scenes.  There are several comments sprinkled throughout the entire game that strongly indicate that the nobility and the peasantry were all aware that Anora was the true ruler, if not the official one.

Can you quote some of those comments? Not doubting you, just curious. I can't claim to remember everything about Origins.

From Anora's codex entry:

It is common knowledge that in the five years Anora and Cailan held the throne together, she was the one wielding the power.

Ah yes, thank you.
I really thought they kept it mostly secret. Oh well.

[Silfren]

Mike Smith wrote...

If they do retcon King Alistair and Anora dying of blight sickness, that's reason enough for me to not get the game. Otherwise, they may as well not even have given you choices at the Landsmeet.

1. That was a troll comment, not to be taken seriously.

2. Alistair WILL die of the Blight disease, assuming something else doesn't kill him first.  All Grey Wardens face that fate.

3. There's no reason for Anora even to be infected with it, and she certainly isn't the type to go chasing off into darkspawn territory.

[Knight of Dane]

^
She was in the battle of Denerim, she could have gotten it there. But I guess she would already have died from it in that case.

[Plaintiff]

almostinsane99 wrote...

She does tell you so to your face when you ask her if she'd be a good queen. She tells you she has been one for the past five years. And when you talk to Loghain if you spare him, he mentions the Banns all knew where the real power lay.

And neither of them would have anything to gain from lying. Except the throne. And the fact that they've been lying their asses off for the entire game up to that point.

[10K]

I think she should appear if she's the queen. I always put her on the throne by herself, she seems to be a better ruler than Alistair. If Alistair shows up as king I don't see why she can't show up for those players who put her on the throne instead.