289 réponses à ce sujet

[The Spirit of Dance]

Make a good game. I don't care about marketing gimmicks.

[MerAnne]

Angrywolves wrote...
The problem as I see it is their aka Bioware's rep has declined due to mistakes made in DA2 and ME3. I'm starting to think that Brent Knowles and Drew Karpensky, or how ever his name is spelled were more important to Bioware than even Bioware realized. As it is Bioware has a lot it would seem to overcome so maybe wecan come up with some ideas for a successful marketing campaign for them.

The only 'marketing campaign' that I can see working for Bioware at this point is to create another quality game.   There is no marketing campaign that is going to  undo a bad reputation before DA:I is available.  (ok, sure, "come get this free game" might work)  If DA:I is a success (dependent on definition of 'success') then a marketing campaign is possible for future games.

But right now?  Instead of "Dragon Age: Inquisition, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition"  all I can think of is "Dragon Age: Inquisition: Not like Dragon Age 2"  (or "not like DAO" depending on which game you prefer) or "Not like ME3".   I wouldn't call those good marketing campaign ideas.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Get rid of MP
Get rid of Microtransactions
Quit day one dlc
and most important make games with interesting and coherent plots.
Also another good tip don't make promises you can't or wont keep.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 14 avril 2013 - 07:21 .

[Angrywolves]

Come on now Malek. I was kind of Schumaker contributed since he and I have a somewhat adversarial relationship going on at the moment but let us put that aside and anything else that is negative and come up with something positive. With G4 gone, it's going to be the Esquire channel which I assume won't be covering videogames, I find hard to come up with a lot of venues. I think they said E3 would be too late for their big announcement . How far is EA really willing to go to publicize the game considering both Bioware's and EA's recent troubles ? So what should they do?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Most people don't actually seem to know what it is that will help boost sales outside of vague, non-consequential, generalized to the point of ridiculousness, statements. Hell, half the post in this thread have been people just complaining about marketing tactics that bioware doesn't even, nor have ever, done, such as activations doritos and mountain dew xp deals.

If you want to increase sales, what you need to do is make sure you can have your expectations meet up with your products in your advertising. Hype it, because that's how you get your name out, but don't over-extend your hyping to make people have unreal expectations, and by that I mean a majority of people. You will always have those individuals who misconstrew every aspect of ever statement to feed into their own preconcieved notions, that's just part of living and advertising something. What you want though is to make sure that the percent of people who do this, or feel that they have been vindicated by the advertisments, is mitigated to as low a percent as possible. 4 or 6% is a very good number to lower it to, 0 % or even 2% is a fairy tale number.

Also, what you need to look into is intising people to try and buy the game as well, beyond simply the core fans who are already garunteed to buy it. This can already be done with simple things like pre-order bonuses, maybe promotional items for everybody who buys a copy the first week of launch, stuff like that. But you also need to lure in the hardcore fans, the ones who are skepical, cynical, and who tend to blow things out of proportion all the time and nitpick things to death. These are the second largest audience you have bioware, and as such you need to begin taking steps and making sure you do things to try and intise them to rejoin the biwoare fandom. Advertise about some of the more narrative aspects of the game, such as making choices, building relationships, having a large adventure, stuff like that. Also maybe sending a few advance copies of DA3 to some of the more hardcore fan sites to have them do a review could maybe help, or hurt, depends really. But this section of fans do not trust your usual sources of information distribution, part of the growing "us vs them" mentality taking hold of people and inspiring them to become anti-establishment in their purchasing decision because they think it makes an impact. Again, it's important to keep in mind you will not win over all of them, that's impossible. But what you need to do, is win over a lot of them, that's where you should focus your energy on.

I know you guys will be focusing on making a good game, on trying to make a great narrative with lots of impactful choices, and of our previous choices having impacts on the story. I know as well that you are putting your best efforts into making the game "good", by your rpg fans standards and by your casual fans standards, finding a balance between the two that doesn't alienate either, becasue quite frankly you need both of them if your going to have a successful game. These boards only serve as a voice piece for the extermes discussed above, the hardcore nitpickers and heavily devoted, don't focus all your attention on only these forums, but do at least pay attention once in a while.

I don't believe that any company, developer, or anyone has ever strived to try and make a bad game in all honesty, say for penn and teller. So all these people saying "make a good game", aren't really making much sense to begin with, since that is already the primary method of increasing sales that most, if not all, companies do.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 14 avril 2013 - 07:47 .

[ianvillan]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Most people don't actually seem to know what it is that will help boost sales outside of vague, non-consequential, generalized to the point of ridiculousness, statements. Hell, half the post in this thread have been people just complaining about marketing tactics that bioware doesn't even, nor have ever, done, such as activations doritos and mountain dew xp deals.

If you want to increase sales, what you need to do is make sure you can have your expectations meet up with your products in your advertising. Hype it, because that's how you get your name out, but don't over-extend your hyping to make people have unreal expectations, and by that I mean a majority of people. You will always have those individuals who misconstrew every aspect of ever statement to feed into their own preconcieved notions, that's just part of living and advertising something. What you want though is to make sure that the percent of people who do this, or feel that they have been vindicated by the advertisments, is mitigated to as low a percent as possible. 4 or 6% is a very good number to lower it to, 0 % or even 2% is a fairy tale number.

More to come.

There is hyping and then there is stupid gimmicks, Bioware seems to favour the latter most recently the famous awesome button. Instead of criticizing a successful and well liked game like Origins Bioware should of spent more time showing what DA2 would be like.

Modifié par ianvillan, 14 avril 2013 - 07:43 .

[Angrywolves]

I wasn't here when Jessica Chobot apparently got some negative feedback for ME3. To me it would be silly to blame her for Bioware's mistakes in ME3 but some fans do get out of control. I think it's important for Bioware to regain the trust of the fans. Likewise Bioware employees should know not all fans are toxic. So a measure of trust needs to be established. I don't know if just making a good game alone will be sufficient to make the kind of success Bioware needs right now. There are a lot of DAO fans in the fanbase. The more different the game is from DAO the more dissatisfied they will be.

[Cainhurst Crow]

ianvillan wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Most people don't actually seem to know what it is that will help boost sales outside of vague, non-consequential, generalized to the point of ridiculousness, statements. Hell, half the post in this thread have been people just complaining about marketing tactics that bioware doesn't even, nor have ever, done, such as activations doritos and mountain dew xp deals.

If you want to increase sales, what you need to do is make sure you can have your expectations meet up with your products in your advertising. Hype it, because that's how you get your name out, but don't over-extend your hyping to make people have unreal expectations, and by that I mean a majority of people. You will always have those individuals who misconstrew every aspect of ever statement to feed into their own preconcieved notions, that's just part of living and advertising something. What you want though is to make sure that the percent of people who do this, or feel that they have been vindicated by the advertisments, is mitigated to as low a percent as possible. 4 or 6% is a very good number to lower it to, 0 % or even 2% is a fairy tale number.

More to come.

There is hyping and then there is stupid gimmicks, Bioware seems to favour the latter most recently the famous awesome button. Instead of criticizing a successful and well liked game like Origins Bioware should of spent more time showing what DA2 would be like.

Not exactly sure what you mean by that in all honesty. DA2 seemed to show a lot of people what it would be like when they released a demo for the game. Though I didn't much have dragon age in my radar until 2 or 3 months before it launched, and even than I never came to these forums until a little over a year ago. So maybe there was something I missed in that time where they did indeed not show anything of DA2 until the demo and also bad mouthed origins.

I wouldn't know.

[Fast Jimmy]

I honestly think if they pushed back Day One DLC to Week 3 DLC, it would both sell better as well as be less negatively received.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I honestly think if they pushed back Day One DLC to Week 3 DLC, it would both sell better as well as be less negatively received.

I'm not sure how, since people will still just complain that "It should have been in the game" even though by that logic you are being ripped off every time you see a movie because it has deleted scense in it that you must buy afterwards.

Day one dlc at least makes everyone able to purchase it as soon as possible, and the price doesn't really change in the span of a few weeks. In fact, the price may even rise for the dlc after those few weeks, depending on whether you get signature editions or preorder bonus routes with said dlc.

[ianvillan]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

ianvillan wrote...


There is hyping and then there is stupid gimmicks, Bioware seems to favour the latter most recently the famous awesome button. Instead of criticizing a successful and well liked game like Origins Bioware should of spent more time showing what DA2 would be like.

Not exactly sure what you mean by that in all honesty. DA2 seemed to show a lot of people what it would be like when they released a demo for the game. Though I didn't much have dragon age in my radar until 2 or 3 months before it launched, and even than I never came to these forums until a little over a year ago. So maybe there was something I missed in that time where they did indeed not show anything of DA2 until the demo and also bad mouthed origins.

I wouldn't know.

Well in many interviews we had David Silverman and the devs criticizing Origins art as being generic, they said the story structure was what they had done before and was becoming tired, they said that there was too much detail in the environments, they said how the forest looked different to the city and the deep roads looked different as well, they criticized giving your companions armour, they said about how the warden had a vacant stare because he was voiceless, and they mentioned the shuffle which gave rise the awesome button catchphrase.

Now whether you agree with all the changes they made or not is beside the point, if in your marketing you have to criticize the game that came before which was successful and a hit with your fans you are doing something wrong, you have a fan base that liked the last game you made and are expecting something similar but in almost all interviews you are telling them that the game they liked had so much wrong with it that you had to change so much of the new game it is bound not to appeal to them.

The same was done with ME3 by saying that because ME3 was a war the games before didn't matter.

I know the goal is to get new fans in to the series which is a good thing, but don't do that by alienating your fans of the old game. you can mention all the new features you are including but do it by showing what they are and how they improve the game. you can attract new players to the series but don't say that the old games don't mean anything.

Modifié par ianvillan, 14 avril 2013 - 08:29 .

[MerAnne]

since a marketing pitch really seems to be what the OP is looking for.

Make one or more short modules available for play at various venues before launch. Get feedback. In DAO, I would have suggested making a specific Origin story available. But something similar since there is the clear cutoff when the PC becomes a GW recruit and goes to Ostagar. What will happen in Ostagar?

From the player feedback, the most important question - Did you want to see what happens next? Everyone is never going to agree on the best graphics, combat style, armor, etc But if they don't care what happens next, I doubt that the game will be successful. This could even be playable on line as a demo, but I'm begging you - do not make the actual game require a persistent internet connection!

This demonstration modules are very very risky. If the player feedback is exceedingly negative on top of recent games that were not uniformly well received..... the consequences could destroy early sales. Trailers, etc etc etc just cause dissatisfaction if the actual game doesn't look exactly the same.

[eroeru]

They should lose the defunct series. Make a KOTOR or two. Maybe a Jade Empire. Maybe even a Baldur's Gate.

[Fast Jimmy]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I honestly think if they pushed back Day One DLC to Week 3 DLC, it would both sell better as well as be less negatively received.

I'm not sure how, since people will still just complain that "It should have been in the game" even though by that logic you are being ripped off every time you see a movie because it has deleted scense in it that you must buy afterwards.

Day one dlc at least makes everyone able to purchase it as soon as possible, and the price doesn't really change in the span of a few weeks. In fact, the price may even rise for the dlc after those few weeks, depending on whether you get signature editions or preorder bonus routes with said dlc.

When do those deleted scenes get released? Oh, that's right... six to twelve months later when the movie comes out on video. Yet no one complains. It is because it is not a practice of flouting extra story content for those who want to pay more on the very first day of the product being on the shelves. That would mean that the deleted scene was ready the very same day as the regular movie, but only those people who pay for a premium movie ticket would get to see it. That's unsavory.

A few weeks make all the difference. By that time, many people have played (and even beaten) the game. It encourages less sell backs during that time period and can encourage more sales (Week 3 is when many games see their first significant drops). You can still offer the same exact pre-order/collector's edition discounts, just not have the DLC be downloadable until a few weeks later. It saves face in a serious manner and, as crazy as this sounds, the team could actually use that extra time to work on the product and make it better. 

[MerAnne]

oh, and as a marketing tool. If the player wants to know 'what happens next?', they are going to buy the game as soon as it becomes available or pre-order.

But it is a high risk move.

[Fast Jimmy]

MerAnne wrote...

oh, and as a marketing tool. If the player wants to know 'what happens next?', they are going to buy the game as soon as it becomes available or pre-order.

But it is a high risk move.

...but the priiiiiiiize...

[Sanunes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I honestly think if they pushed back Day One DLC to Week 3 DLC, it would both sell better as well as be less negatively received.

I don't think they would see any additional profit for there are enough people that beat a game put it away and never touch it again after beating it might not buy any DLC after that time so if they are done with the game in under three weeks they won't buy it.

I can't see it being less negatively received, for how would be seen any better for the DLC would have been done or mostly done when the game is released and people love to say that since it was developed before release they deserve for free.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I honestly think if they pushed back Day One DLC to Week 3 DLC, it would both sell better as well as be less negatively received.

I'm not sure how, since people will still just complain that "It should have been in the game" even though by that logic you are being ripped off every time you see a movie because it has deleted scense in it that you must buy afterwards.

Day one dlc at least makes everyone able to purchase it as soon as possible, and the price doesn't really change in the span of a few weeks. In fact, the price may even rise for the dlc after those few weeks, depending on whether you get signature editions or preorder bonus routes with said dlc.

When do those deleted scenes get released? Oh, that's right... six to twelve months later when the movie comes out on video. Yet no one complains. It is because it is not a practice of flouting extra story content for those who want to pay more on the very first day of the product being on the shelves. That would mean that the deleted scene was ready the very same day as the regular movie, but only those people who pay for a premium movie ticket would get to see it. That's unsavory.

A few weeks make all the difference. By that time, many people have played (and even beaten) the game. It encourages less sell backs during that time period and can encourage more sales (Week 3 is when many games see their first significant drops). You can still offer the same exact pre-order/collector's edition discounts, just not have the DLC be downloadable until a few weeks later. It saves face in a serious manner and, as crazy as this sounds, the team could actually use that extra time to work on the product and make it better. 

A very good point, though one I still have some reservations with. Still, I can't help but feel it might now have any real benefit to the game or bioware in generally.

[Shevy]

ianvillan wrote...


There is hyping and then there is stupid gimmicks, Bioware seems to favour the latter most recently the famous awesome button. Instead of criticizing a successful and well liked game like Origins Bioware should of spent more time showing what DA2 would be like.

Well, sadly this is common business. You are defensive about your product until the day you announce your next one. Then, your previous product nearly gets ripped apart. It's exactly the same in the sports world.

I could hate DA II's marketing for hours, especially because I as an Origins fan was told in nearly every interview that the game I really liked and still like "sucked" in so many areas and then delivering "awesome button" and "think like a general, fight like a spartan" crap instead of genuinely telling me what DA II will be.

As a fan I absorbed every info I could get back then, but however, even I didn't expect DA II to be that different from Origins and of such inferior quality.

So, as I said a few pages prior, try to be genuine this time about what DA III will be and don't critise your previous products to the bones to drag DA III on a pedestal. Let the game speak for itsself.

[Maverick827]

Shevy_001 wrote...

I could hate DA II's marketing for hours, especially because I as an Origins fan was told in nearly every interview that the game I really liked and still like "sucked" in so many areas

I, as an Origins fan, was told no such thing, and I watched and read every interview available.

So maybe the problem was with your comprehension abilities.

[Kreid]

Ultimately it all boils down to making a good game. DA:I will have Dark Souls 2 and The Witcher 3 as direct competitors, even if they're not exactly the same you can see they're striving to become really high quality products.

[Angrywolves]

not just a good game like I said before. Opinions vary and another game that falls short of DAO won't see imo.

[Shevy]

Maverick827 wrote...

Shevy_001 wrote...

I could hate DA II's marketing for hours, especially because I as an Origins fan was told in nearly every interview that the game I really liked and still like "sucked" in so many areas

I, as an Origins fan, was told no such thing, and I watched and read every interview available.

So maybe the problem was with your comprehension abilities.

It would be too much work to find all of the quotes, but:

- Origins combat? "slow, tedious, shuffly". Well, I prefer it above "anime style backflipping  making enemies explode with daggers"

- Story? "too generic, was what we always did" While there is truth in this, I had way more fun with it because of great antagonists like Logan and the more open path you could collect the treaties. Instead of onedimensional Meredith and "I have to transform into nomnom-Harvester" Orsino and no clear goal.

- Look? "too brownish, boring" Nope, I liked the more realistic approach. Way above the kind of anime style with spikes at every corner.

- Companions? "looked too replacable because you could equip them" Well, change them to fixed looks and make a good amount of your loot useless, great.

- Protagonist? "without a voice he lacks expression/is too stoic" Guess what? Having a voiceless protag offered me the possibility to roleplay the Warden way more as I could with Hawke and thus didn't care for Hawke at all.

I could go on with this, but I think you are getting the tone.

[Chiramu]

" What can Bioware due..."? Maybe you should look at the forum thread title OP...

I will probably buy the new Dragon Age and I will probably be disappointed by it because it won't be as good as it can be.

I think what they can do to get the game to sell is to keep working on it, and I mean working on it until it can't go any farther, until it can't get any better. They shouldn't be afraid to do re-writes or anything drastic because if the game needs it the game needs it.

[addiction21]

Maverick827 wrote...

Shevy_001 wrote...

I could hate DA II's marketing for hours, especially because I as an Origins fan was told in nearly every interview that the game I really liked and still like "sucked" in so many areas

I, as an Origins fan, was told no such thing, and I watched and read every interview available.

So maybe the problem was with your comprehension abilities.

Its the same old twisting of words and taking everything the developers day out of context to throw it back at them.

Its amusing how it works with some people. They demand BIoWare apologize and admit their mistakes and cheer when they criticize the games they dislike, but say anything other then how perfect a game was and they are damning it.

Its funny the same people that want/demand to hear from the developers only want to when its something they like or agree with.

P.S.
Ianville the "fans" turned Awesome button into a catch phrase because many thing repeating it ad nauseam across the internet is some sort of biting criticism.

Shevy_001 wrote...

I could go on with this, but I think you are getting the tone.

I sure do. Make the game exactly how Shevy wants because Shevys believes themselves to be the center of the universe.

Chiramu wrote...


I think what they can do to get the game to sell is to keep working on it, and I mean working on it until it can't go any farther, until it can't get any better. They shouldn't be afraid to do re-writes or anything drastic because if the game needs it the game needs it.

No game, book, movie etc would likely ever be released then.  Just look at the last page. The "5 year development" of DAO and those that worked on it still felt they could of done better. Apperently they are not allowed to believe that and critique their own work.