289 réponses à ce sujet

[ianvillan]

addiction21 wrote...

Ianville the "fans" turned Awesome button into a catch phrase because many thing repeating it ad nauseam across the internet is some sort of biting criticism.

Every developer must of said the awesome button phrase in there interviews it was the main marketing point of DA2.

Modifié par ianvillan, 14 avril 2013 - 10:04 .

[addiction21]

ianvillan wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Ianville the "fans" turned Awesome button into a catch phrase because many thing repeating it ad nauseam across the internet is some sort of biting criticism.

Every developer must of said the awesome button phrase in there interviews it was the main marketing point of DA2.

Really every one?

Prove it.  I doubt you can even give me ten members of the DA2 team that said it. Its gotten to the point you and others have chanted these half-truths so much you actually believe it.

Modifié par addiction21, 14 avril 2013 - 10:15 .

[Shevy]

I never demanded any BioWare dev to apologize for the features they implemented in DA II. They explained why they did it and while I may not agree with it, I can accept it.

Alike, I never applauded them when they critisised some of DA II's features, while I may agree with it. The points I listed are my point of view, my preferences, nobody has to share them.

That's why your "make the game like Shevy wants" point is absolutly laughable. While i would enjoy it, if their direction would fit with my preferences, ( and who would not?) I can accept that the game may will not be for me. Unfortunate sure, but then I move on. No big deal.

The only thing I don't like about such marketing strategies is that you can irritate fans of the older products by "trashing" large parts of the games. And yes, I even mentioned to don't hit on DA II to market DA III, because there are people who may liked that particular feature.

Just genuinely show how DA III plays with explainations why you came up with your solutions without dismissing prior products  and I'm fine.

But, if you have to hop on me and imply me intentions I don't have (e.g. design the game for me), feel free to continue and dismiss yourself.

Modifié par Shevy_001, 14 avril 2013 - 10:22 .

[astreqwerty]

make a good game for a change

[LinksOcarina]

Roflbox wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Study politics and warfare.

Or hire a person that understands these things. Like me =P.

If only. Dragon Age and Mass Effect are just painful attempts.

The real thing is a bit more boring, and un-palletable for a romantic setting. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Sanunes wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I honestly think if they pushed back Day One DLC to Week 3 DLC, it would both sell better as well as be less negatively received.

I don't think they would see any additional profit for there are enough people that beat a game put it away and never touch it again after beating it might not buy any DLC after that time so if they are done with the game in under three weeks they won't buy it.

I can't see it being less negatively received, for how would be seen any better for the DLC would have been done or mostly done when the game is released and people love to say that since it was developed before release they deserve for free.

I wouldn't be surprised if its reception was a more positive.

I'm not sure if it'd be more profitable, however (I'd be more inclined to think it would not be, at least in the short term - one can debate the long term effects of day one DLC but we don't really know what those are at this moment).

[LinksOcarina]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I honestly think if they pushed back Day One DLC to Week 3 DLC, it would both sell better as well as be less negatively received.

I don't think they would see any additional profit for there are enough people that beat a game put it away and never touch it again after beating it might not buy any DLC after that time so if they are done with the game in under three weeks they won't buy it.

I can't see it being less negatively received, for how would be seen any better for the DLC would have been done or mostly done when the game is released and people love to say that since it was developed before release they deserve for free.

I wouldn't be surprised if its reception was a more positive.

I'm not sure if it'd be more profitable, however (I'd be more inclined to think it would not be, at least in the short term - one can debate the long term effects of day one DLC but we don't really know what those are at this moment).

Its ironic...I remember Gearbox announcing months in adavnce we got a character for Borderlands 2 you can download for DLC that can be free for people who pre-order...and release it a month after the game was shipped. 

And no one complained...but few people used the character or bought her after the fact as well.  

Truth be told, the day one DLC has always been nothing  but sabrerattling from a group of fans, especially in the case of Mass Effect 3. I wasn't around during Dragon Age when it was released, but did people actually complain about Shale or Sebastian as DLC characters? And yet, how many of those same people still bought the game with them? 

[Fast Jimmy]

I wouldn't be surprised if its reception was a more positive.

I'm not sure if it'd be more profitable, however (I'd be more inclined to think it would not be, at least in the short term - one can debate the long term effects of day one DLC but we don't really know what those are at this moment).

I say "more sales" for a specific reason. If less people are selling back their games because they knew they would getting a piece of DLC free (because, say, they pre-ordered the game or something similar), then more copies of the game sold would be actual new copies, instead of the Used copies for five or ten dollars less, which go like hotcakes on newer games.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 14 avril 2013 - 10:56 .

[Iakus]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Truth be told, the day one DLC has always been nothing  but sabrerattling from a group of fans, especially in the case of Mass Effect 3. I wasn't around during Dragon Age when it was released, but did people actually complain about Shale or Sebastian as DLC characters? And yet, how many of those same people still bought the game with them? 

Shale was actually free with a new copy.  Which is how I think all "Day 1 DLCs" should be.  Buy the copy new, and get a free extra.  Buy used and you have to pay for it.

[Fast Jimmy]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Its ironic...I remember Gearbox announcing months in adavnce we got a character for Borderlands 2 you can download for DLC that can be free for people who pre-order...and release it a month after the game was shipped. 

And no one complained...but few people used the character or bought her after the fact as well.  

Truth be told, the day one DLC has always been nothing  but sabrerattling from a group of fans, especially in the case of Mass Effect 3. I wasn't around during Dragon Age when it was released, but did people actually complain about Shale or Sebastian as DLC characters? And yet, how many of those same people still bought the game with them? 

I'm not sure how exactly one would know the DLC character for BL2 was used less or not? Is that from co-op/MP anecdotes?

Also, people complained about Sebastian, Shale and Zaeed (ME2's DLC character). They were all free, but people complained it was unfair to those players without Internet connections, as well as setting a dangerous precedent for future D1DLC's to be characters (since people had picked up on the fact that D1DLC always seems to be a character companion) to be paid, charged story content. Which ME3 showed the first evidence of. 

[Lobos1988]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I honestly think if they pushed back Day One DLC to Week 3 DLC, it would both sell better as well as be less negatively received.

I don't think they would see any additional profit for there are enough people that beat a game put it away and never touch it again after beating it might not buy any DLC after that time so if they are done with the game in under three weeks they won't buy it.

I can't see it being less negatively received, for how would be seen any better for the DLC would have been done or mostly done when the game is released and people love to say that since it was developed before release they deserve for free.

I wouldn't be surprised if its reception was a more positive.

I'm not sure if it'd be more profitable, however (I'd be more inclined to think it would not be, at least in the short term - one can debate the long term effects of day one DLC but we don't really know what those are at this moment).

Its ironic...I remember Gearbox announcing months in adavnce we got a character for Borderlands 2 you can download for DLC that can be free for people who pre-order...and release it a month after the game was shipped. 

And no one complained...but few people used the character or bought her after the fact as well.  

Truth be told, the day one DLC has always been nothing  but sabrerattling from a group of fans, especially in the case of Mass Effect 3. I wasn't around during Dragon Age when it was released, but did people actually complain about Shale or Sebastian as DLC characters? And yet, how many of those same people still bought the game with them? 

Thing is: I really would like to know how many people actually bought the DA:O Ultimate box even though they already have the original game just because they always really wanted the DLC and now there was a possibility without paying for each and everyone extra and getting all of them ready... I'd really pay more money for a game so I don't have to buy some other stuff just a few days/weeks later to get the full experience of the game as it was meant to be...

[Urazz]

I say first thing they need to do is learn from their mistakes from DA2 and ME3.

DA2 was pretty much good but they rushed the development and ended up not being able to finish the game properly. Act 3 pretty much shows this. There was also the reused maps and constant wave spawns of mobs but I think Bioware has shown they have learned from that mistake with the DA2 DLC.

ME3 kicked ass for the entire game except the ending and while the multiplayer was fairly decent, it felt like it took away resources better spent on the single player and tying multiplayer to getting a good single player ending didn't help matters either.. The ending of a game should kick ass, especially if it's the ending to a trilogy. Maybe if EA didn't demand the game be multiplayer, Bioware could've easily used the money and man hours spent on it to be used for improving the ME3 storyline.

[Fast Jimmy]

Thing is: I really would like to know how many people actually bought the DA:O Ultimate box even though they already have the original game just because they always really wanted the DLC and now there was a possibility without paying for each and everyone extra and getting all of them ready... I'd really pay more money for a game so I don't have to buy some other stuff just a few days/weeks later to get the full experience of the game as it was meant to be... 

A DLC season pass was meant to address that, where if you paid a designated amount, you can get a discounted (or even free) future DLC. It has hit roadbumps because there were issues of promising certain DLCs that never materialized (which I think is a bad idea). Given that Bioware has a habit of doing a minimum of three DLCs for their games, I think it would be a worthwhile tactic for them to roll something like this out (possibly even giving people the option to get either the D1DLC or the season pass with a pre-order, meaning you get the first DLC for free, or you lay $5 for the first (and all subsequent) DLCs for pre-orders).

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 14 avril 2013 - 11:16 .

[LinksOcarina]

iakus wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Truth be told, the day one DLC has always been nothing  but sabrerattling from a group of fans, especially in the case of Mass Effect 3. I wasn't around during Dragon Age when it was released, but did people actually complain about Shale or Sebastian as DLC characters? And yet, how many of those same people still bought the game with them? 

Shale was actually free with a new copy.  Which is how I think all "Day 1 DLCs" should be.  Buy the copy new, and get a free extra.  Buy used and you have to pay for it.

And? so was Javik for those who pre-ordered the collectors edition.

The dirty little secret though is that the brick and mortar stores like Gamestop didn't like that EA made free DLC. Neither did Microsoft or Sony either, because it cut into their sales and incentives heavily, since the penalty was paying fifteen extra bucks for a used title's free content. 

I know, ironic to say, since most games have DLC now attached to it thats free, but its mostly superfluous stuff. I would argue extra characters or levels is not in that vein, which made it more likely for players to buy the product new, instead of used, in the long run since it was always guarenteed. 

So much so, I remember working at Gamestop at the time and being told directly to not sell Mass Effect 2 when it came out new to customers, and to push used sales. This was a directive from the district managers mind you, so it wasn't just my store saying this, it was all stores in the NY/NJ area. Of course we didn't listen because were not dicks like that, we simply tell them the pros/cons and the customers choose, but I can imagine some stores locking up new copies and only selling used to make their day in the end. 

So it won't go back to that, not because EA is evil or malicious or what have you, but because they were being screwed by the brick and mortar stores for the most part. Digital sales were also supposedly affected, at least thats the rumor I hear from time.

[Fast Jimmy]

And? so was Javik for those who pre-ordered the collectors edition

The Collector's Edition that was, coincidentally enough, $10... the same price as the DLC.

Does it not seem more likely that the real financials worked that if you pre-ordered your DLC, you get the random swag included in the Collector's Edition?

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 14 avril 2013 - 11:21 .

[LinksOcarina]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Its ironic...I remember Gearbox announcing months in adavnce we got a character for Borderlands 2 you can download for DLC that can be free for people who pre-order...and release it a month after the game was shipped. 

And no one complained...but few people used the character or bought her after the fact as well.  

Truth be told, the day one DLC has always been nothing  but sabrerattling from a group of fans, especially in the case of Mass Effect 3. I wasn't around during Dragon Age when it was released, but did people actually complain about Shale or Sebastian as DLC characters? And yet, how many of those same people still bought the game with them? 

I'm not sure how exactly one would know the DLC character for BL2 was used less or not? Is that from co-op/MP anecdotes?

Also, people complained about Sebastian, Shale and Zaeed (ME2's DLC character). They were all free, but people complained it was unfair to those players without Internet connections, as well as setting a dangerous precedent for future D1DLC's to be characters (since people had picked up on the fact that D1DLC always seems to be a character companion) to be paid, charged story content. Which ME3 showed the first evidence of. 

Mostly yes, and recently playing the game again a bit, I have seen a few Gaiges here and there but very little outside of my own use for her after I finished the game. I can't say for sure, but I do know people raised a big issue with Gearbox making a second character for $10.00 to download for next month. It wou;dn't be surprising to me if that Gaige got the same reaction for those not getting her free.

I would also argue BioWare has done this since Jade Empire, with Monk Zheng though as an extra character for the collectors edition. I would also argue that Mass Effect 3 showed no evidence to that at all, considering it was scrapped and re-arranged story plans that were eliminated from the main plot, since it all came from a draft of the script.  

This is the problem with this sort of argument, its opinion based without empirical evidence to the contrary. We are assuming its charged story content because we are either looking for it, or see it as such for whatever reason. That doesn't mean its right. And honestly, the easy way to solve this is to just see the budget plan regarding where things go. If extra characters and questlines are part of a DLC that is to be released, it would be planned ahead as seperate content, or reused content that was going to be scrapped, which I believe was the case for Shale and Javik.

And if the words of BioWare is not enough...well then I guess it doesn't really matter what we all think does it, the crowd has spoken then, right or wrong. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 14 avril 2013 - 11:27 .

[LinksOcarina]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And? so was Javik for those who pre-ordered the collectors edition

The Collector's Edition that was, coincidentally enough, $10... the same price as the DLC.

Does it not seem more likely that the real financials worked that if you pre-ordered your DLC, you get the random swag included in the Collector's Edition?

Possibly, but considering the amount of content added as random swag, both physical and digital, it can be argued it evens out fairly. 

[Sanunes]

Urazz wrote...

I say first thing they need to do is learn from their mistakes from DA2 and ME3.

DA2 was pretty much good but they rushed the development and ended up not being able to finish the game properly. Act 3 pretty much shows this. There was also the reused maps and constant wave spawns of mobs but I think Bioware has shown they have learned from that mistake with the DA2 DLC.

ME3 kicked ass for the entire game except the ending and while the multiplayer was fairly decent, it felt like it took away resources better spent on the single player and tying multiplayer to getting a good single player ending didn't help matters either.. The ending of a game should kick ass, especially if it's the ending to a trilogy. Maybe if EA didn't demand the game be multiplayer, Bioware could've easily used the money and man hours spent on it to be used for improving the ME3 storyline.

The problem is multiplayer is something people want, ever since Mass Effect 1 you had people asking for multiplayer and co-op so yes some people feel its a waste of resources, but others enjoyed it in Mass Effect 3 so the problem is what playerbase do you think they should listen to?

[LinksOcarina]

Sanunes wrote...

The problem is multiplayer is something people want, ever since Mass Effect 1 you had people asking for multiplayer and co-op so yes some people feel its a waste of resources, but others enjoyed it in Mass Effect 3 so the problem is what playerbase do you think they should listen to?

You presume the player bases don't overlap though. I am sure they do in many cases. 

[Sanunes]

LinksOcarina wrote...

-snip-

Its ironic...I remember Gearbox announcing months in adavnce we got a character for Borderlands 2 you can download for DLC that can be free for people who pre-order...and release it a month after the game was shipped. 

And no one complained...but few people used the character or bought her after the fact as well.  

Truth be told, the day one DLC has always been nothing  but sabrerattling from a group of fans, especially in the case of Mass Effect 3. I wasn't around during Dragon Age when it was released, but did people actually complain about Shale or Sebastian as DLC characters? And yet, how many of those same people still bought the game with them? 

I know Sebastian was a problem because of his quest arc and it was deemed important to the game and people complained about it, maybe not as much as Javik tho.

I didn't really follow Borderlands 2 the way I do BioWare games so I can't tell about their bonus character because I don't go to their forums and normally that is where those discussions take place.  I do think there were complaints about the Season pass for Borderlands 2 and how it was handled, but I am not completely sure on those details.

[Sanunes]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

The problem is multiplayer is something people want, ever since Mass Effect 1 you had people asking for multiplayer and co-op so yes some people feel its a waste of resources, but others enjoyed it in Mass Effect 3 so the problem is what playerbase do you think they should listen to?

You presume the player bases don't overlap though. I am sure they do in many cases. 

That could be a truth, for I can't read the mind of every player otherwise I think some gaming company would knock me out and drag me to an underground dungeon somewhere.  Even if it does overlap what should a company like BioWare do when they make something people want, but another group doesn't want it and most of the issue is simply the player preception of the situation and they did their best to try and answer the question, but their response is ignored?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Stop selling low quality games?

[slimgrin]

They could always claim DA3 offends moms.

[Fast Jimmy]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And? so was Javik for those who pre-ordered the collectors edition

The Collector's Edition that was, coincidentally enough, $10... the same price as the DLC.

Does it not seem more likely that the real financials worked that if you pre-ordered your DLC, you get the random swag included in the Collector's Edition?

Possibly, but considering the amount of content added as random swag, both physical and digital, it can be argued it evens out fairly. 

* I still would be curious to see how much pre-orders increased with tying in the D1DLC. Considering that many people said they were unable to even pre-order the Collector's Edition, since the pre-orders were sold out. In that light, were people really buying the swag, or buying the DLC with the Prothean, but just paying for it in advance?