289 réponses à ce sujet

[Xerxes52]

iakus wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Truth be told, the day one DLC has always been nothing  but sabrerattling from a group of fans, especially in the case of Mass Effect 3. I wasn't around during Dragon Age when it was released, but did people actually complain about Shale or Sebastian as DLC characters? And yet, how many of those same people still bought the game with them? 

Shale was actually free with a new copy.  Which is how I think all "Day 1 DLCs" should be.  Buy the copy new, and get a free extra.  Buy used and you have to pay for it.

Agreed, I think that Day One DLC should be used to incentivize new purchases.

[Angrywolves]

Gaider doesn't want the sex emphasized I am sure. And they want a hullabaloo from the American right wing. So they need something else to encourage sales.

[Tinu]

Do people really care that much about DayOne- DLC? If you don't want it, you don't buy it. I don't believe a game will sell better if it doesn't have a DayOne- DLC.

How to enhance sales? Just make a great game and advertise it accordingly.

[Sanunes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And? so was Javik for those who pre-ordered the collectors edition

The Collector's Edition that was, coincidentally enough, $10... the same price as the DLC.

Does it not seem more likely that the real financials worked that if you pre-ordered your DLC, you get the random swag included in the Collector's Edition?

Possibly, but considering the amount of content added as random swag, both physical and digital, it can be argued it evens out fairly. 

* I still would be curious to see how much pre-orders increased with tying in the D1DLC. Considering that many people said they were unable to even pre-order the Collector's Edition, since the pre-orders were sold out. In that light, were people really buying the swag, or buying the DLC with the Prothean, but just paying for it in advance?

As much as people don't like it, I fully agree I rather have Project $10 back then an Online Pass.

[Scarlet Rabbi]

BouncyFrag wrote...

They could take a page from the Bioshock Infinite approach to boxart by enhancing its 'frathouse appeal.' The combined elements of 'dudebro' and 'enchantment' would be unstoppable.

God I wanted to vomit after I read that article.

[Fast Jimmy]

As much as people don't like it, I fully agree I rather have Project $10 back then an Online Pass.

Well, I would buy that argument if From Ashes was for all ME3 pre-orders. But it was for all COLLECTOR'S EDITION pre-orders. This means they are not promoting sales of new game copies... they are promoting pre-order DLC sales with the Collector's Edition swag. It's a completely different end result. 

Project $10 penalizes those who buy used games, but rewards those who buy the game new. 

Free D1DLC with a pre-order of a standard copy (like DA2 did with Sebastian's DLC) is incentivizing pre-orders, having nothing to do with new copies.  

From Ashes is trying to not only secure pre-order of the base game, but also securing pre-order of the DLC for close to full price. A way it could have been marketed was "pre-order the game and its first DLC, get Collector's swag free" with the way the logistics work out. 

It may look like they have been slowly kicking dirt over the line, but in reality, they are two very different outcomes and rewards systems. The way ME3 did it, there was no reward for pre-ordering a standard copy, nor no penalty for buying used. So saying the DLC model is trying to be used to encourage new game sales is a ship that has saled.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 15 avril 2013 - 02:16 .

[Sanunes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

As much as people don't like it, I fully agree I rather have Project $10 back then an Online Pass.

Well, I would buy that argument if From Ashes was for all ME3 pre-orders. But it was for all COLLECTOR'S EDITION pre-orders. This means they are not promoting sales of new game copies... they are promoting pre-order DLC sales with the Collector's Edition swag. It's a completely different end result. 

Project $10 penalizes those who buy used games, but rewards those who buy the game new. 

Free D1DLC with a pre-order of a standard copy (like DA2 did with Sebastian's DLC) is incentivizing pre-orders, having nothing to do with new copies.  

From Ashes is trying to not only secure pre-order of the base game, but also securing pre-order of the DLC for close to full price. A way it could have been marketed was "pre-order the game and its first DLC, get Collector's swag free" with the way the logistics work out. 

It may look like they have been slowly kicking dirt over the line, but in reality, they are two very different outcomes and rewards systems. The way ME3 did it, there was no reward for pre-ordering a standard copy, nor no penalty for buying used. So saying the DLC model is trying to be used to encourage new game sales is a ship that has saled.

Okay, I get what you are saying, I misread it the first time.

[Maria Caliban]

addiction21 wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Ianville the "fans" turned Awesome button into a catch phrase because many thing repeating it ad nauseam across the internet is some sort of biting criticism.

Every developer must of said the awesome button phrase in there interviews it was the main marketing point of DA2.

Really every one?

Prove it.  I doubt you can even give me ten members of the DA2 team that said it. Its gotten to the point you and others have chanted these half-truths so much you actually believe it.

The Ur 'button, awesome' quote come from David Silverman, a marketing director at EA. He was involved in marketing Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3, but is currently involved in Battlefield! so I don't think he's an employee of BioWare.

As marketing director, he did have a large number of interviews and did manage to fit that phrase into most of them.

Heather Rabatich, whose interview was quite popular, never used the phrase. Robin Theberge, development manager, used it. Dan Lazin, gameplay producer, doesn't. I recall Mike used it a few times and I know Mark Darrah did.

It wasn't the center of their marketing but it slipped its way into enough interviews and videos for the fanbase to latch onto it.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 avril 2013 - 03:09 .

[Fraq Hound]

Bioware could fix ME3 for starters. They would gain alot of customers back instantly by doing that.

Without that I'm afraid their best course of action is to make sure that DA3 is a complete and enjoyable product from start to finish. Try to win back the customers who feel slighted and then hit us with a brilliant new IP.

All I can say is, "Good luck."

I hope they can succeed because I love the games that they create but Mass Effect 3 was an effing disaster.

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, the best-selling videogame franchise of all time is Mario. So the best thing Bioware can do to improve sales is cancel Dragon Age and start producing platformers.

This made me chuckle. How about an RPG set in a magical mushroom kingdom? It could center around two Italian Plumbers from Brooklyn and an evil dragon (turtle?) king who enjoys kidnapping princesses?

I'd play that! Though only if the fire flower is a romance option.

Modifié par Fraq Hound, 15 avril 2013 - 04:29 .

[Sanunes]

Fraq Hound wrote...

Bioware could fix ME3 for starters. They would gain alot of customers back instantly by doing that.

Without that I'm afraid their best course of action is to make sure that DA3 is a complete and enjoyable product from start to finish. Try to win back the customers who feel slighted and then hit us with a brilliant new IP.

All I can say is, "Good luck."

I hope they can succeed because I love the games that they create but Mass Effect 3 was an effing disaster.

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, the best-selling videogame franchise of all time is Mario. So the best thing Bioware can do to improve sales is cancel Dragon Age and start producing platformers.

This made me chuckle. How about an RPG set in a magical mushroom kingdom? It could center around two Italian Plumbers from Brooklyn and an evil dragon (turtle?) king who enjoys kidnapping princesses?

I'd play that! Though only if the fire flower is a romance option.

Honestly if they "fixed" Mass Effect 3 they would lose me as a customer for then they would be making games that are created by marketing research.  This is like me threatening Warner Bros. that they have to film a new ending to Dark Knight Rises before I would ever watch a Warner Bros. movie again

[ianvillan]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Ur 'button, awesome' quote come from David Silverman, a marketing director at EA. He was involved in marketing Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3, but is currently involved in Battlefield! so I don't think he's an employee of BioWare.

As marketing director, he did have a large number of interviews and did manage to fit that phrase into most of them.

Heather Rabatich, whose interview was quite popular, never used the phrase. Robin Theberge, development manager, used it. Dan Lazin, gameplay producer, doesn't. I recall Mike used it a few times and I know Mark Darrah did.

It wasn't the center of their marketing but it slipped its way into enough interviews and videos for the fanbase to latch onto it.

I do actually believe that the awesome button and think like a general were a main part of the marketing for DA2, It seems to me that they used awesome button to highlight the action nature of DA2 to attract newer players.

Plus Dan Lazin has used the awesome button quote along with Fernando Melo and Ray Muzyka.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz42he1E5Fs

[MisanthropePrime]

A Chris Priestly action figure in specially marked packages at participating retailers?

[TEWR]

LinksOcarina wrote...

The real thing is a bit more boring, and un-palletable for a romantic setting. 

A Song of Ice and Fire is political, has realistic warfare (realistic in the sense that while magical stuff exists, it's used realistically), and is interesting and engaging.

Hell, that's just a book series. FFXII, Fire Emblem Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn, and The Witcher series are political as well and they're video games. And they're far from being "boring".

And I don't know that I'd consider DA a "romantic" setting. But then, I'm not sure if you mean to say "romantic" by way of Romanticism or "romantic" by way of romance.

That said, I don't think DA falls into the jurisdiction of either.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 avril 2013 - 12:18 .

[Ridwan]

Good marketing isn't a problem. Good games is the problem cause they're few and far between. The game should handle smoothly, fix any gameplay issues, getting rid of the stupid anime like combat in terms of animation, but keep the speed of it. Focus on beautiful explorable areas and keep the strong rpg elements, have numerous choices so that those that wanna play as a dick can be a dick, those that wanna play as the "woe is me, darkness surrounds my heart" can have the option to play like that and other options such as "What the hell is going on here" guy and the "l'm gonna do the right thing".

Multiple ending choices for replay value, not focusing on MP, it might work for ME cause it has strong shooter mechanics, but how's that gonna work with DA:I? Horde waves again? Good music and voice acting isn't a concern, since Bioware nails that. Good consistant writing though is needed. Adding other elements such as gear crafting would be very nice too, though keep it in line and don't do the mistake Skyrim did, where you can quickly make super powerful gear early in the game.

[zeypher]

make a good game which satisfies the consumer. There is a reason dao did so well.

[Zack_Nero]

I think that they should stop saying what they are using to make the game and show something that is in the game.

[LinksOcarina]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

The real thing is a bit more boring, and un-palletable for a romantic setting. 

A Song of Ice and Fire is political, has realistic warfare (realistic in the sense that while magical stuff exists, it's used realistically), and is interesting and engaging.

Hell, that's just a book series. FFXII, Fire Emblem Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn, and The Witcher series are political as well and they're video games. And they're far from being "boring".

And I don't know that I'd consider DA a "romantic" setting. But then, I'm not sure if you mean to say "romantic" by way of Romanticism or "romantic" by way of romance.

That said, I don't think DA falls into the jurisdiction of either.

Song of Ice and Fire is not that good in its representation of reality. The only thing they have going for them is king sucession and bedroom politics, which you rarely see in-games mind you, that can be traced to real-life analogies. In my own studies, mostly Chinese and Japanese politics for me. As for it being interesting, I will give you that, but frankly my engagement with the books is very low, because I hate the way Martian presents everything. But that is personal taste. 

The other games are political, I give you that, but they are like Dragon Age where their politics is mostly embellished for effect. Rebel factions, kidnapping plots, coup de tats, a lot of these things happened yes, but were rarely successful or even possible because of high security and the very tangled politcal web that is often weaved through diplomats and lords.

I also meant romantic in terms of the games taking liberties for melodrama. I'm not talking about the period of romatnicism at all. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if its reception was a more positive.

I'm not sure if it'd be more profitable, however (I'd be more inclined to think it would not be, at least in the short term - one can debate the long term effects of day one DLC but we don't really know what those are at this moment).

I say "more sales" for a specific reason. If less people are selling back their games because they knew they would getting a piece of DLC free (because, say, they pre-ordered the game or something similar), then more copies of the game sold would be actual new copies, instead of the Used copies for five or ten dollars less, which go like hotcakes on newer games.

This is a post that may be correct as a hypothesis.  Your presmise logically makes sense.

By the same token though, many logical assessments get shown to not reflect reality.  It's easy to say that the situation you describe will play out the way that you describe, but people may just as well drop it and move on regardless.  I don't actually know how it would play out.  You could be right.  You might not be.


Although one thing I found crazy interesting is that Stone Prisoner was a ridiculously successful DLC in terms of sales.  We weren't expecting that at all (I know I certainly wasn't).  I wonder how much of Javik's sales were off of used purchases as well.

If the situation that you describe does reflect reality, it'd definitely be better to wait, even in the short term.  If it's not though, the profitability implications are much less clear.  I'd suspect short-term loss by delaying the release, but I can't forsee the long term implications.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 15 avril 2013 - 04:47 .

[Fast Jimmy]

It is a theory, yes... and the best way to find out is to test the theory! So says this guy, at least.

[Allan Schumacher]

It's a hypothesis

/smug


I'm not against the idea though.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 15 avril 2013 - 05:08 .

[-Skorpious-]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fraq Hound wrote...

Bioware could fix ME3 for starters. They would gain alot of customers back instantly by doing that.

Without that I'm afraid their best course of action is to make sure that DA3 is a complete and enjoyable product from start to finish. Try to win back the customers who feel slighted and then hit us with a brilliant new IP.

All I can say is, "Good luck."

I hope they can succeed because I love the games that they create but Mass Effect 3 was an effing disaster.

ME3 isn't broken.

"I don't like it, it makes me feel bad, etc." doesn't equal "broken."

I can't import any of my seven characters. Just sayin'.

[Fraq Hound]

EntropicAngel wrote...

ME3 isn't broken.

I understand that there are people who like the ending or at the very least have made peace with it. You are obviously one of those people.

If Bioware decided to acquiesce and release an alternate ending, how would that affect you in any way? You would still have the ending that you like.

Myself and those like me would have the ending we like.

Bioware would win back a big portion of their fan base.

Sounds like a win/win/win to me.

EntropicAngel wrote...

"I don't like it, it makes me feel bad, etc." doesn't equal "broken."

I never said it makes me feel bad. It's not the tone of the ending I have a problem with. It's the execution, the writing, the plot holes, and the 180 the series takes on it's stance with Organics vs AI's.

The entire ending just isn't up to the quality of the rest of the series. It sticks out like a sore thumb and in 10 years when I look back on Mass Effect I'm not going to remember the hundreds of hours that I played and enjoyed in that universe.

No, I'm going to remember the disappointment I felt as the A, B, C ending that we were told wouldn't happen played out.

That sounds pretty effing broken to me.



EDIT

-Skorpious- wrote...

I can't import any of my seven characters. Just sayin'.

Holy crap, I forgot about that. They never fixed it?

Guess I lucked out that one of my 5 characters worked.

My main Shepard and my female Shepard didn't, don't think I ever tried the others.

Modifié par Fraq Hound, 15 avril 2013 - 05:29 .

[hoorayforicecream]

The term "broken" means something different to people in the industry than it seems to have to some posters here.

A game is broken if it is literally unplayable. You cannot finish the game because it crashes, or gets stuck in an infinite loop, or a player cannot obtain a plot-required item or flag. It's broken if it is buggy to the point of being unable to finish its critical path, shows debug information to the end user, or cannot pass certification. That's broken.

It is not "broken" just because some users didn't like parts of it.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 15 avril 2013 - 05:51 .