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What can Bioware due to enhance sales ?


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#176
upsettingshorts

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if real life's Medieval politics was all rather boring as well.


Like any other era's politics it depends how much we know about what really went on, versus what people thought was happening at the time.

What makes contemporary politics "boring" is we often don't know, or are misled about, the former.  Hence why political exposes - and conspiracies - are so popular.  

Well, that's just my opinion anyway.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 avril 2013 - 09:22 .


#177
Allan Schumacher

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Political controversies get all sorts of attention.

But yes, I'm sure there are many that have an idealized (at least in terms of interest) perspective of politics of any era.

#178
Conduit0

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

You guys do know David Gaider spends his free time modding Victoria 2, which has more politics and warfare than pretty much any other example you could possibly cite? Judging by the fact the mod(s) he works on are notable for their attention to historical detail, I highly doubt that a lack of knowledge or understanding of politics, warfare, or history, within the writing team is an actual issue.

Maybe, perhaps, folks in this thread and others should stop conflating "stories that interest me/I'd like to have told in this setting" with "objectively better and more interesting content" or "stories that the writers agree with you are worth interesting" or even "these stories are what sell." That'd be a start.


Don't be silly, everyone knows that their opinion of what a good story is, is the only correct one. :innocent:

#179
Angrywolves

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Talk about getting off course. Ge, even Schumaker likes my thread. Guess I'm good for something besides trolling rotfl. FF tried politics with FF12 and while some people liked it I hated it. Bored me to tears.. So Bioware needs to be careful if they intend DAI to be primarily a political drama. More importantly imo is getting people to put pass disappointment with Bioware aside, get enthused about the game, and when the game comes out, believe their expectations have been met so they will recommend the game to others.

#180
upsettingshorts

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To answer this thread's question, then, I'd say they've already done one important thing: Get rid of David Silverman.

#181
jillabender

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

You guys do know David Gaider spends his free time modding Victoria 2, which has more politics and warfare than pretty much any other example you could possibly cite? Judging by the fact the mod(s) he works on are notable for their attention to historical detail, I highly doubt that a lack of knowledge or understanding of politics, warfare, or history, within the writing team is an actual issue.


That's a very good point - although I don't think anyone would argue that the Dragon Age games have much realism in terms of portraying warfare or re-creating a period in time, it would be very unfair (and a jerk move!) to assume that's because of a lack of knowledge on the part of the writers, and I admit that's an assumption I've sometimes been guilty of.

I don't think historical realism has ever been something they've chosen to focus on in Dragon Age, but I wouldn't want to assume that they couldn't do that if they wanted to.

Modifié par jillabender, 15 avril 2013 - 10:40 .


#182
LinksOcarina

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if real life's Medieval politics was all rather boring as well.


Like any other era's politics it depends how much we know about what really went on, versus what people thought was happening at the time.

What makes contemporary politics "boring" is we often don't know, or are misled about, the former.  Hence why political exposes - and conspiracies - are so popular.  

Well, that's just my opinion anyway.


You are basically on the ball regarding all of this. The one caveat is that the sources we do have for historical events are mostly interpetation, with a dash of reality thrown in. very rarely is anything historically factual without evidence backing it up.

#183
upsettingshorts

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I was thinking mainly of things like uncovered primary sources and declassified documents, but yes, information must always be put in context. Context changes more swiftly - and is more difficult to establish - in current events than it does with events long past.

Up to a point, at least.  If an event or person is ancient or obscure enough, then establishing the facts/context is extraordinarily difficult.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 avril 2013 - 10:32 .


#184
LinksOcarina

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

I was thinking mainly of things like uncovered primary sources and declassified documents, but yes, information must always be put in context. Context changes more swiftly - and is more difficult to establish - in current events than it does with events long past.

Up to a point, at least.  If an event or person is ancient or obscure enough, then establishing the facts/context is extraordinarily difficult.


Historically speaking, primary documents are actually rare. 

Source documents can be primary or secondary, but are always put into the perspective of the person writing. My favorite example is always the "Fall of Rome", which was coined by Edward Gibbon's, but he had a very positivist portrayal of the events, meaning he took the sources almost ver-batum and didn't question them. He also had an axe to grind, so his own bias was involved in his major publications.

Considering the fact that all the politics in the games are mostly made up, yet follow similar beats to, as I said, romanticize them to make them fun and melodramatic. Nothing wrong with that in the end, since its easy and competant enough to do. 

#185
billy the squid

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Political controversies get all sorts of attention.

But yes, I'm sure there are many that have an idealized (at least in terms of interest) perspective of politics of any era.


I'd recommend reading Gregory of Tours History of the Franks then. Or the various histories of Ancient Rome, the Dynastic politics of the 100 years war between England and France. The formation of the Holy Roman Empire. Makes modern politics look like a walk in the park. You do not settle political disputes today with the sharp end of an axe, pushing pieces of wood under people's fingernails, burying them alive, burning the church were a political rival has fled, to the ground. 

These are actually detailed in Tour's History of the Franks, among many other things. I'm sure the Conservative party in the last election garnered support by threatening to purge and entire social class. You want inspiration on interfactional conflicts I don't think contemperary political sniping cuts it really. 

Modifié par billy the squid, 15 avril 2013 - 11:09 .


#186
upsettingshorts

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billy the squid wrote...

Makes modern politics look like a walk in the park. You do not settle political disputes today with the sharp end of an axe, pushing pieces of wood under people's fingernails, burying them alive, burning the church were a political rival has fled, to the ground. 


Yawn.

#187
TheJediSaint

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billy the squid wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Political controversies get all sorts of attention.

But yes, I'm sure there are many that have an idealized (at least in terms of interest) perspective of politics of any era.


I'd recommend reading Gregory of Tours History of the Franks then. Or the various histories of Ancient Rome, the Dynastic politics of the 100 years war between England and France. The formation of the Holy Roman Empire. Makes modern politics look like a walk in the park. You do not settle political disputes today with the sharp end of an axe, pushing pieces of wood under people's fingernails, burying them alive, burning the church were a political rival has fled, to the ground. 

These are actually detailed in Tour's History of the Franks, among many other things. I'm sure the Conservative party in the last election garnered support by threatening to purge and entire social class. You want inspiration on interfactional conflicts I don't think contemperary political sniping cuts it really. 


Last I checked, wars, torture, creative exectuions, and destruction of places of worship are still very much a part of the politcal discourse in the modern world.

#188
billy the squid

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Makes modern politics look like a walk in the park. You do not settle political disputes today with the sharp end of an axe, pushing pieces of wood under people's fingernails, burying them alive, burning the church were a political rival has fled, to the ground. 


Yawn.


I'm sure if we stuck to social progression and other concepts you'd be ecstatic.

#189
billy the squid

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TheJediSaint wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Political controversies get all sorts of attention.

But yes, I'm sure there are many that have an idealized (at least in terms of interest) perspective of politics of any era.


I'd recommend reading Gregory of Tours History of the Franks then. Or the various histories of Ancient Rome, the Dynastic politics of the 100 years war between England and France. The formation of the Holy Roman Empire. Makes modern politics look like a walk in the park. You do not settle political disputes today with the sharp end of an axe, pushing pieces of wood under people's fingernails, burying them alive, burning the church were a political rival has fled, to the ground. 

These are actually detailed in Tour's History of the Franks, among many other things. I'm sure the Conservative party in the last election garnered support by threatening to purge and entire social class. You want inspiration on interfactional conflicts I don't think contemperary political sniping cuts it really. 


Last I checked, wars, torture, creative exectuions, and destruction of places of worship are still very much a part of the politcal discourse in the modern world.


I'm sure Obama will reveal in his memoirs he had waterboarded certain republican senators.

Those aspects are a means to an end in medieval history, Contemporary politics, it's squabbling over the middle ground, not quite so exciting, or interesting, as it's all different shades of the same politics.

Modifié par billy the squid, 15 avril 2013 - 11:21 .


#190
TheJediSaint

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billy the squid wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Political controversies get all sorts of attention.

But yes, I'm sure there are many that have an idealized (at least in terms of interest) perspective of politics of any era.


I'd recommend reading Gregory of Tours History of the Franks then. Or the various histories of Ancient Rome, the Dynastic politics of the 100 years war between England and France. The formation of the Holy Roman Empire. Makes modern politics look like a walk in the park. You do not settle political disputes today with the sharp end of an axe, pushing pieces of wood under people's fingernails, burying them alive, burning the church were a political rival has fled, to the ground. 

These are actually detailed in Tour's History of the Franks, among many other things. I'm sure the Conservative party in the last election garnered support by threatening to purge and entire social class. You want inspiration on interfactional conflicts I don't think contemperary political sniping cuts it really. 


Last I checked, wars, torture, creative exectuions, and destruction of places of worship are still very much a part of the politcal discourse in the modern world.


I'm sure Obama will reveal in his memoirs he had waterboarded certain republican senators. 


Maybe not in the US, but definitly in other parts of the world.  And it wasn't that long ago people were blowing up churches to advance, or to put it more accuratly, prevent social and political change within this country.

#191
upsettingshorts

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billy the squid wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Makes modern politics look like a walk in the park. You do not settle political disputes today with the sharp end of an axe, pushing pieces of wood under people's fingernails, burying them alive, burning the church were a political rival has fled, to the ground. 


Yawn.


I'm sure if we stuck to social progression and other concepts you'd be ecstatic.


A lot of that happened in the Middle Ages!  Why don't we talk about the downfall of feudalism?  Or the rise of the merchant middle classes?  Or the Protestant reformation?  Or the proliferation of humanism that led to the European Renaissance?  

Crude violence is crude violence.  Petty disputes among the nobility settled by pointless cruelty is simply the least interesting and least consequential example of it.  It's little more than biographical trivia.

History is social progression and "other concepts" and not a laundry list of brutalities you find compelling.

LinksOcarina wrote...

Historically speaking, primary documents are actually rare.


Indeed.  I just have Beevor's The Second World War in my head and was thinking of declassified Soviet material and journals and the like.  Fairly modern stuff.

You're right about sources like Gibbon and understanding perspective and context.  Another good example would be the Bayeux Tapestry.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 avril 2013 - 11:37 .


#192
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Heroic stories in videogames do tend to be about progression or at least preventing regression/apocalypse. I'm not really interested in the barbarism porn either.

#193
billy the squid

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Makes modern politics look like a walk in the park. You do not settle political disputes today with the sharp end of an axe, pushing pieces of wood under people's fingernails, burying them alive, burning the church were a political rival has fled, to the ground. 


Yawn.


I'm sure if we stuck to social progression and other concepts you'd be ecstatic.


A lot of that happened in the Middle Ages!  Why don't we talk about the downfall of feudalism?  Or the rise of the merchant middle classes?  Or the Protestant reformation?  Or the proliferation of humanism that led to the European Renaissance?  

Crude violence is crude violence.  Petty disputes among the nobility settled by pointless cruelty is simply the least interesting and least consequential example of it.  It's little more than trivia.

History is social progression and "other concepts" and not a laundry list of brutalities you find compelling.


Which if you'd read my point on the previous page is precisely what I meant. You'd find a great deal more in medieval politics than you do in the contemperary politics of today which consists of squabbling over a single popular vote. The violence is a means to an end to secure power, dominance and userp positions within the various frame works of feudalism, Slavery and freedmen, the legal systems. Influence of the church, politicking in the church and state and inherrent factionalism. 

The laundry list of brutalities is one specific point, which are repeated over and over on the History of the Franks. Or was it lost on you that the power of the church was ignored in the desire to establish political dominance in the merovingian period, by burning a church with a political rival inside, blasphemy was clearly not on the mind of certain kings, more than political dominance. So what does that say about the fluidity and status of a dynastic family?

Think a bit deeper before dismissing things off hand, I get tired of spelling things out for people constantly.

#194
upsettingshorts

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I read your posts on the previous page, you chose to express the difference between interesting and boring politics as being based on the extremity of violence used in support of it.  You chose to emphasize the points you chose to emphasize, implying that in failing to replicate such violence in their games BioWare was crippling their narratives. That you're choosing to elaborate now, indicating the primary importance of the concepts being pursued with such violence, has confirmed my point.  

So if by "think deeper" you meant "read my mind as to how I would elaborate if challenged" sure, I'll go about developing psychic powers right away.

As for the implications of rest of your post, lets just say your understanding of contemporary politics is... flawed, and leave it at that.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 avril 2013 - 11:58 .


#195
Spedfrom

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Political controversies get all sorts of attention.

But yes, I'm sure there are many that have an idealized (at least in terms of interest) perspective of politics of any era.


Are you saying that Game of Thrones is not based on real life politics??? :crying:

*heart forever shattered*

#196
Mercedes-Benz

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Make an World-class game, but somehow I doubt that will happen...

Modifié par Mercedes-Benz, 16 avril 2013 - 01:35 .


#197
Nightdragon8

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honestly quality games is what will make sales. not TV commercials not IGN reports or any other mag for that matter.

Day 1 DLC... honestly it felt like an insult... and had a money grab feel to it. I mean really... if it was going to be day 1, why wasn't it in the game to begin with?? I mean I heard of Day 1 Patchs which is to be expected. but day 1 pay money for content... also the day 1 DLC was imo a pretty important person to have in the game. a prothean. no less.

#198
Angrywolves

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Obviously Bioware would like to have 10 million in sales DAI like Bethesda has gotten recently. I don't see how they can get that no matter how good the game is. Am I wrong?

#199
Sabariel

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Not rush the game, for starters.

Give out free candy, for another...

#200
Plaintiff

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Angrywolves wrote...

Obviously Bioware would like to have 10 million in sales DAI like Bethesda has gotten recently. I don't see how they can get that no matter how good the game is. Am I wrong?

How does you imagining the success of DA:I prove anything at all?

Your question is unanswerable and pointless. I'm not sure it's even English.