17 réponses à ce sujet

[onemic_sensei]

 I've been real interested in using the NWN2 toolset for my first foray into modding. Problem is, is that I hear the community isn't that active. Compared to NWN1, which modding community would you say is more active and which would you recommend for someone just starting out? 

[PJ156]

NWN I has more custom content I think but I cannot compare the two as I have only used this NWN II in anger.

This community is small yes, but active and growing, there are people here who have, quite recently jumped the hurdles you will have to to make you first mod or content, all of whome will likely give you a hand.

As I say, I cannot offer you a comparison but I would recommend NWN II to you whole heartedly.

PJ

[Tchos]

The NWN1 community does seem to be more active, but that doesn't mean the NWN2 community is not active.

As for toolsets, since I've only used the NWN2 toolset, I can't tell you the differences from direct experience. However, I've talked to people who are experienced with the NWN1 toolset, and they've told me about certain differences, such that I would not want to go from NWN2 to NWN1, because I would be giving up too much in the toolset.

[Shallina]

NWN1, NWN2, DRAGON AGE or SKyrim Toolset ? what a dilemma !

They all got their pro and cons.

Between NWN1 and NWN2 i 'd recommand NWN2beceause it allow way more things than NWN1 it's really more powerfull.

But NWN1 beeing more simple can allow to make things quicker.

[AndarianTD]

onemic_sensei wrote...

I've been real interested in using the NWN2 toolset for my first foray into modding. Problem is, is that I hear the community isn't that active. Compared to NWN1, which modding community would you say is more active and which would you recommend for someone just starting out?

As with most things, this comes down to answering the question: "What are you trying to do?" I've done a lot of modding in NWN1 and am fairly familiar with the NWN2 toolset, so I can probably give you some criteria for choosing between them. Here's my brief summary:

NWN1:

• Pros: Much faster development; easier area design; more custom content
• Cons: 11 Year old game with inferior graphics compared to more modern ones

NWN2:

• Pros: Superior graphics, integration of conversation and scripting, plugins
• Cons: Much slower development and more difficult area design

The biggest difference is in level design. NWN1 uses an entirely tileset-based area building system. This means that a lot of that work has already been done for you in sections by a tileset builder, although you still need to arrange the tiles effectively when building an area. For NWN1, there are a lot of excellent tilesets that have been developed by the CC community. Although NWN2 supports tilesets (primarily for indoor areas), the emphasis (especially for outdoor areas) is on using the area editor to "hand-paint" them. From all accounts, that is a much more difficult and time-consuming process -- but produces better looking areas.

NWN2 also has a far superior design integrating conversations and scripting. In NWN1, you cannot parametrize scripts, including on call from conversation nodes. This means that if I want to script a character taking an action and use it for two different characters on two different nodes, in NWN1 you either have to write two different scripts, or engage in some rather extraordinarily complex "script kludging." In NWN2, you can just past the tag of the character to take the action on the conversation node, and write one script to handle the action for anyone. NWN2 also features a very nice letter-box style "cutscene conversation" format that isn't available in NWN1.

As for custom content -- and I haven't looked at this in years, so anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken -- it's much more difficult to develop CC for NWN2 because of the 3rd party graphics formats used. Partly this is a result of the fact that NWN2's graphics are so much better than NWN1's, and partly it's because of the 3rd party tools that were used in its development. These were some of the major reasons why I decided to abandon development of my second module in NWN2. For those interested, there's some good historical information available here as well.

So the basic question comes back to: what are you trying to do? If it's get modding experience, then what at? If you're new to it, strapped for time, and just looking to get your feet wet, NWN1 is easier to get into, and some of the skills you acquire (especially with regard to quest and story design) will be transferrable to more modern games like NWN2 and DA. On the other hand, someone looking to get into modern games with a level or cinematic scene design emphasis might be better off biting the bullet and getting into NWN2 (or even DA). If you're primarily a story-teller and quest-maker who needs a lot of variety, doesn't mind obsolete graphics, and wants to do something fast, NWN1 is probably the way to go.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 14 avril 2013 - 12:23 .

[Clyordes]

One thing - I never got around to trying the NWN1 toolset - I was too busy playing the adventures that other people had made, but with NWN2 there weren't many around, so I had a try myself.

I've never used a toolset, map editor or similar in any other game so I've got nothing to really compare the learning curve to, but it didn't seem that hard. I guess it all depends what you want to make, and how ambitious you are.

Personally, I started with the "Don't Panic!" tutorial (should be in the sticky above, or search the NWN2 Vault) & made a very short "go kill the ogre & fetch his stuff" quest, using one outdoor area, one indoor area & one conversation with an NPC, a bunch of goblins & an ogre.

Must have taken me a couple of days including learning how to make the two types of areas, populate them with objects, scenery, creatures, conversations & setting up the quest.

I reckon that making the same 'adventure' now - some years later - might take a couple of hours - much, much less if I wasn't such a stickler for wanting to make areas look 'nice'!

Which is a seperate point - if you're not proud, there are an awful lot of prefab outdoor areas created that you'll find on the vault - uploaded by people who enjoy making areas, for people who might not, or who appreciate how much work goes into a well designed area. And the best bit is, once you have an area, its easy to modify it to match more closely what you had in mind.

As for the community - I don't know if its just me, but I'm sure its picking up at the moment - maybe a lot of people have finished Skyrim & similar & are coming back to NWN2 looking for new adventures? Either way, I've definitely noticed a much faster download rate for my little efforts than this time last year.

Also, the other builders here are always really good at answering any questions you might have - no matter how inane - I think we all well remember what it was like to open up the toolset for the first time & not have a clue what any of the things you could see actually did! I'm still not entirely sure myself.

So - I'd say get into the NWN2 toolset. Its more current than the NWN1 set, lets you do more, and isn't really that tricky to get to grips with for the relatively simple stuff.

Cly.

[Tchos]

Andarian, you asked for a correction, regarding creating CC. I don't know what kind you're referring to (animation may be the difficult thing), but as far as models and textures go, there's currently no barrier at all. Textures can be changed with nothing but an image editor like Photoshop (or free Gimp) and MDB Cloner, and new models/meshes can be created with nothing but the free Gmax and the MDB import/export plugins. New sounds and music can be added with MP3toBMU, as well.

So if there's any custom content difficulty, it must be only in making new creatures. Not having looked into that, I can't say if that's true or not. I can only say what I know to be not difficult.

Also, people differ on whether tile-based design or freeform mesh design is easier. I personally hate tile-based design, and find it not only much more restrictive, but also much more cumbersome. I find creating freeform terrain-deforming exteriors very quick and easy by comparison. I even shun tile-based design for interiors wherever I can, and instead much prefer to design with placeable walls, floors, and other structures for manmade interiors, and exterior-land-as-interior for natural interiors like caves.

[onemic_sensei]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Originally I was put off by NWN2, due to many saying that in comparison to NWN1 it would take much more time to complete a mod(ie a mod in DA:O would take 5 months, in NWN2 2 months, and in NWN1 a few days),and that no one would play it if I did release anything, but now I think I'll get on NWN2. Seems like you can do more with it and based on what Clyordes said, it seems that the toolset may not be too hard to get to grips with. Plus I already own NWN2 complete from the GOG sale a week or so back. I didn't get NWN Diamond during the sale, so I would have to spend 10 bucks just to use a toolset, with no real interest in playing the game itself. In comparison, the whole reason why I got NWN2 complete was to play the game(especially Mask of the Betrayer) so it just works better this way I guess, especially if there's a good support group within this forum. 

I would also assume that the NWN2 toolset would have more transferable skills and teach me more about modding fundamentals than NWN1 would due to it being more powerful?

Modifié par onemic_sensei, 14 avril 2013 - 04:23 .

[ColorsFade]

I am late to this thread, but I would definitely vote for NWN2.

I just started modding for the first time and chose NWN2 because this was the rule set I wanted to build for. I'm about 6 weeks into my campaign. I am not too worried about it taking a long time to build because, quite frankly, building with this toolkit is fun and I know when I finish it's going to be fun to play.

The community here, while small, is very active. I ask a lot of questions and people are really kind to answer. You usually don't have to wait very long to get an answer from someone here.

The toolset itself, while slightly daunting at first, is actually really well done. It's fairly intuitive and the developers have gone to great lengths to make it friendly to modders.

NWN1 may have more custom content, but I have found NWN2 to have PLENTY of GOOD custom content. I've already incorporated a number of things into my campaign, including prefab areas and creatures. The content that has been produced by the community is really good. And even if something isn't perfect, the toolset is easy enough to tweak it and make it your own.

The toolset has its quirks - definitely read some of the started threads around here. As someone who just started modding with the NWN2 engine, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on issues beginners might face, because they are so fresh to me. So if you have questions, ask.

This is a fun toolset to make adventures with. It might take you a long time to realize your vision as you learn the toolkit and how to be efficient with it, but I think you'll find it well worth the journey.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Fair warning, the NWN2 toolset is completely bewildering for the first few minutes. BioWare tried to make the NWN toolset newbie-friendly by adding in things like buttons to control the area view. NWN2 doesn't bother, you gotta use three keyboard buttons in coordination with the mouse just to move the camera. It becomes 2nd-nature after about 5 minutes, but I think many aspiring builders give up before making it up that learning curve. NWN feels just the opposite, in the first 5 minutes you've had already cranked out an area or two.

[Tchos]

Ah, the camera. I think there are multiple ways of doing it. I use only 1 keyboard button to handle it. Holding the control key (Ctrl) while dragging with the left mouse button moves the camera. Holding control while dragging with the right mouse button rotates the view (alternatively, dragging with the middle mouse button, and not holding Ctrl). Zooming in and out with the scroll wheel. I don't think I have any plugins installed that changed it, but I may have forgotten something.

[Shallina]

NWN2, DAO and Skyrim toolset are on the "pro" side for their feaure and the way they do it. They share a lot with standard programming enviromment. it's really good when you are used to it, it can be a bit difficult at first if you discover for the first time those types of tools.

Modifié par Shallina, 14 avril 2013 - 08:30 .

[kevL]

moves camera up/down (z-axis)

Shift+Ctrl+LMB


.. i think that's stock

[Dann-J]

onemic_sensei wrote...

 I've been real interested in using the NWN2 toolset for my first foray into modding. Problem is, is that I hear the community isn't that active.

There's generally someone posting in these forums every single day, and there's more custom content at the NWVault and the Nexus sites than any sane (or employed) person could possibly ever use. That seems to be a pretty active modding community to me.

onemic_sensei wrote...
Compared to NWN1, which modding community would you say is more active and which would you recommend for someone just starting out? 

The biggest turn-off for going back to NWN1 for me is the excruciatingly awful models. They weren't exactly ground-breaking when the game was new, but at least our expectations were lower back in the 'old days'.

Unfortunately games like The Witcher came along and made NWN2 models and textures look almost as bad. A D&D-based game that used Witcher-like graphics would be awesome - and quite doable, given that the original Witcher used a modified version of BioWare's Aurora engine.

[Morbane]

there are great things that are specifically designed/created for newbies in NWN2

the great grand daddy of them is lilacsoul's script generator (nwscript hasnt changed very much since NWN1 - just more stock scripts and functions) this tool literally taught me how to script on my own

toolset tutorials - there must be over 5 of them on the HOF list alone

custom content plugins

plugins in general - many of them simplify building beyond their original intention

for lack of a better memory these are the top few i would use to support your decision to build with NWN2 TS

[MokahTGS]

onemic_sensei wrote...

 I've been real interested in using the NWN2 toolset for my first foray into modding. Problem is, is that I hear the community isn't that active. Compared to NWN1, which modding community would you say is more active and which would you recommend for someone just starting out? 

The question is really, what do you want to accomplish?  NWN2 is better for SP modding IMO as it offers many more gameplay options than NWN.  NWN might be a better choice for MP PW work as there are more diehards in that community.

As far as custom content, yes NWN might have more but it's quality is lower and NWN2 has capabilities that NWN lacks that make a lot of custom content moot.  In NWN2 you can tint and scale models, and the terrain tools means you can create pretty much anything right out of the box.  With NWN, you would need tons of tileset haks just to get to the same level as NWN2 for outdoor areas, and NWN2 would still be able to create areas of more beauty and complexity.

The NWN2 community is pretty dedicated and very very helpful. so if you do go with NWN2 you will have help when you need it.

[ColorsFade]

One of the biggest reasons, to me, to use NWN2 over NWN1 is the ability to craft external areas. NWN1 uses the same kind of "tileset" for indoors and outdoors. NWN2 allows you to really mold the landscape. And while it can take time to learn how to make something look decent, it's so worth the effort...