213 réponses à ce sujet

[SDW]

There's one thing that keeps happening when someone mentions MEHEM:
Some people who enjoyed the original ending come on the thread and angrily complain about and mock the mod.
I don't get it. It's an optional thing that you are not forced to install. So nobody is taking what you liked away from you.

What are you trying to say? To me, this comes across as "Oh, *you* were unhappy about the original ending? Well, *I* was not and thus I hereby declare you have no right to seek for other ways of ending the story that you and I both played."  Does their happiness anger you? Why that? I can only hypothesize it's got to do with the bitterness with which the ending debate was sometimes led and that those attacking MEHEM might feel it makes the pro-ending side "lose" in some way. But it doesn't - how would it? It's just people acting on something they disliked instead of just complaining about it. (Incidentally, wasn't that one of the things that was sometimes criticized - that anti-enders keep on "whining" about the ending and should stop that, dead horse and all?)

Please try to look at it this way: It's great for you that you had a wonderful run from start to finish. Other people would love to *share* that very same experience. MEHEM is a possible way for them.
They're not your enemies. They're here for the same reason as you after all - they're fellow fans. 

Modifié par SDW, 14 avril 2013 - 08:48 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

 Everything that's not the majority opinion around here will get hated on.

So... welcome to the club, MEHEM'ers. You're still better off than most of us!

None of that comes off my keyboard, though. If ME3 shipped with MEHEM I'd probably be mostly happy with the ending. I mainly only dislike it only for external reasons. If others are happy with it, good for them. Happiness is good.

[MyChemicalBromance]

The reason people attack it is lingering animosity against the retakers. They always claimed they weren't upset because the ending was sad. They always said they had such great reasons for being upset. And then every single time something came along that made things happier, regardless of whether or not it made sense, they got happier.

You can understand why people would harbor ill will to this group of entitled half-wits that destroyed this community for the sake of their waifus.

[AkodoRyu]

Oh yea, fighting over fanart. Great.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Am I the only person who doesn't need to see a reason to endlessly discuss it either way? Play the game and...go do something else? Arguing about a mod, not using a mod, wrapped up in the package of the ending feelings is like the most boring, repetitive, and frustrating conversation you can have on these forum.

[SDW]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The reason people attack it is lingering animosity against the retakers. They always claimed they weren't upset because the ending was sad. They always said they had such great reasons for being upset. And then every single time something came along that made things happier, regardless of whether or not it made sense, they got happier.

You can understand why people would harbor ill will to this group of entitled half-wits that destroyed this community for the sake of their waifus.

But people disliked the ending for many reasons. Drayfish, for example, said it was about the three choices going against the values of tolerance and diversity that had been in the games before. People like me did so because we think the games never were about an inevitable organic-synthetic conflict. Others say it's because they were all so similar (before EC). Or because their decisions during three games seemed to not play a big role in the ending.
Frankly, I think people were not entirely honest when they said they didn't want a happy ending. It's a bit like the emperor's new clothes: "Only smart people can see these clothes. If you see none, you must be stupid.". In this case, the pro-ender argument was "Only smart people enjoy unhappy endings. If you don't like it the way it is, you must be stupid.". Of course nobody wants to seem stupid.

[SiriusXI]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The reason people attack it is lingering animosity against the retakers. They always claimed they weren't upset because the ending was sad. They always said they had such great reasons for being upset. And then every single time something came along that made things happier, regardless of whether or not it made sense, they got happier.

You can understand why people would harbor ill will to this group of entitled half-wits that destroyed this community for the sake of their waifus.

Yeah, this "community"... online communities are full of sh*t most of the times. The only exception I have encountered is the baldur's gate community, because it mainly consists of older, maturer people.

This community, however, is just so mindblowingly stupid. MEHEM makes the game better, because it REMOVES THE CATALYST. Do you get that? Do you? I'll say it again. Said it 1.000 times before:

The ONLY REASON MEHEM makes the game better, is because it REMOVES THE CATALYST!


People who actually care about story & lore realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.

Most independent reviwers (who's employees are not actual characters in the game) realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.


But it's over and so I don't give a sh*t anymore. But I'd be somewhat content if this forum will remain that toxic. I hope Bioware realizes that, when they see all this hate within their community, they will never screw up this bad again. Then at least there would br something decent about this ending.

Modifié par SiriusXI, 14 avril 2013 - 09:09 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

SiriusXI wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The reason people attack it is lingering animosity against the retakers. They always claimed they weren't upset because the ending was sad. They always said they had such great reasons for being upset. And then every single time something came along that made things happier, regardless of whether or not it made sense, they got happier.

You can understand why people would harbor ill will to this group of entitled half-wits that destroyed this community for the sake of their waifus.

Yeah, this "community"... online communities are full of sh*t most of the times. The only exception I have encountered is the baldur's gate community, because it mainly consists of older, maturer people.

This community, however, is just so mindblowingly stupid. MEHEM makes the game better, because it REMOVES THE CATALYST. Do you get that? Do you? I'll say it again. Said it 1.000 times before:

The ONLY REASON MEHEM makes the game better, is because it REMOVES THE CATALYST!


People who actually care about story & lore realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.

Most independent reviwers (who's employees are not actual characters in the game) realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.


But it's over and so I don't give a sh*t anymore. But I'd be somewhat content if this forum will remain that toxic. I hope Bioware realizes that, when they see all this hate within their community, they will never screw up this bad again. Then at least there would br something decent about this ending.

Oh believe me, you and your ilk have all but ensured they'll never try anything new ever again.

[SiriusXI]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

SiriusXI wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The reason people attack it is lingering animosity against the retakers. They always claimed they weren't upset because the ending was sad. They always said they had such great reasons for being upset. And then every single time something came along that made things happier, regardless of whether or not it made sense, they got happier.

You can understand why people would harbor ill will to this group of entitled half-wits that destroyed this community for the sake of their waifus.

Yeah, this "community"... online communities are full of sh*t most of the times. The only exception I have encountered is the baldur's gate community, because it mainly consists of older, maturer people.

This community, however, is just so mindblowingly stupid. MEHEM makes the game better, because it REMOVES THE CATALYST. Do you get that? Do you? I'll say it again. Said it 1.000 times before:

The ONLY REASON MEHEM makes the game better, is because it REMOVES THE CATALYST!


People who actually care about story & lore realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.

Most independent reviwers (who's employees are not actual characters in the game) realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.


But it's over and so I don't give a sh*t anymore. But I'd be somewhat content if this forum will remain that toxic. I hope Bioware realizes that, when they see all this hate within their community, they will never screw up this bad again. Then at least there would br something decent about this ending.

Oh believe me, you and your ilk have all but ensured they'll never try anything new ever again.

As if novelty was the problem. There are tons of games that have dark and sad endings, which are good. There are also tons and tons of games with dark and sad endings that are aweful! So we have in total the following options:

1. happy and good
2. Happy but aweful

Something in the middle

3. sad and good
4. sad but aweful.


ME3's ending is category 4. Sad but really aweful. SAD is neither new, nor is it automatically good or aweful. That's why "happyness" is not a problem. The CATALYST is the problem. When people scream for happyness, they meinly refer to Shepard being reunited with their characters/Team/LI. And since ME3 was a very character-focused game, this is just understandable. And even then would the game have been dark.

But that aside, to make you understand, that not happyness is the problem. The original MEEM, which didn't have Shepard survive, is still much better than the original endings; simply because it REMOVES THE CATALYST.

Modifié par SiriusXI, 14 avril 2013 - 09:32 .

[BrookerT]

Even though I like the ending, I do agree, there is no reason to hate MEHEM. It's a fan alternative to the extended cut, no real issues there. I think its even endorsed by someone at bioware, maybe I'm imagining that but its simply optional.

The only logical reason I see to hate MEHEM is the same reason some hate the EC, they both alter the original intent of the ending, censorship of its themes in a way. It's would be similar to a situation where an artist was forced to change a part of a painting because a large number of people complained or someone else altered it. Justified or not, it's still altering the original intent. NOt that I personally believe this but it still a valid point.

[SiriusXI]

BrookerT wrote...

Even though I like the ending, I do agree, there is no reason to hate MEHEM. It's a fan alternative to the extended cut, no real issues there. I think its even endorsed by someone at bioware, maybe I'm imagining that but its simply optional.

The only logical reason I see to hate MEHEM is the same reason some hate the EC, they both alter the original intent of the ending, censorship of its themes in a way. It's would be similar to a situation where an artist was forced to change a part of a painting because a large number of people complained or someone else altered it. Justified or not, it's still altering the original intent. NOt that I personally believe this but it still a valid point.

No this would not be the same. If I like a painting so much that I want to own it, I can look at it before I buy it in its entirety. Had I seen the ME3 ending first, I would never EVER have bought ME3. And I was stupid enough to preorder the CE.

[Reorte]

BrookerT wrote...

Even though I like the ending, I do agree, there is no reason to hate MEHEM. It's a fan alternative to the extended cut, no real issues there. I think its even endorsed by someone at bioware, maybe I'm imagining that but its simply optional.

The only logical reason I see to hate MEHEM is the same reason some hate the EC, they both alter the original intent of the ending, censorship of its themes in a way. It's would be similar to a situation where an artist was forced to change a part of a painting because a large number of people complained or someone else altered it. Justified or not, it's still altering the original intent. NOt that I personally believe this but it still a valid point.

It isn't a valid point. The original is still there for the people strange enough to want it. There's also a long history of people tinkering around with stories, doing their own versions, their own adaptions. It doesn't force BioWare to do anything. And even if it did (well, as long as it's persuade rather than force) there's nothing fundamentally wrong with pressure from consumers resulting in a company changing its product. That's one way succesful companies stay in business.

[Vigilant111]

I personally did not download the mod, and when it came out I just dismissed it, cos it wasn't something I needed despite the fact I loathed the ending pre-EC and post-EC alike. But I do not see why pro-enders have any valid justification for hating the mod though, no one is worse off, and the mod is chosen by choice, no one is forced to regard it as canon

[Liamv2]

I don't like mehem but i don't really care if someone else uses it

[RukiaKuchki]

OP - so, you hate it when people who disagree with you come in and hijack a thread/talk about how much they hate the MEHEM? But isn't this what happens every time someone wants a discussion on why they liked the ending? Isn't it what happens every time someone wants a serious discussion on why they weren't satisfied with the ending? You can't have it both ways... You're opinions/preferences are not sacred. Once you post them, they are not beyond critique or mocking. If this upsets or offends you, the internet (and the Bioware forum in particular) is not the place for you. If you truely enjoy something, does it matter what anyone else thinks? Sometimes you have just got to drown out the negativity because life is waaaay too short to get overly concerned with some silly fan mod.

[Reorte]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Oh believe me, you and your ilk have all but ensured they'll never try anything new ever again.

Novelty (not that there's much of it involved) doesn't mean any sort of thought and QA go out of the window. If something isn't consistent and isn't thought out at all then it's bad. Novelty doesn't excuse not getting the basics right. It's like people who claim the Reapers' or Catalysts' motivations are beyond us as if you can get away with creating characters that act randomly by claiming they're hyperintelligent.

If, for the sake of argument, we accept that novelty is involved and they decide to not to try anything new it'll just be another case of them messing up the implementation of an idea and reacting as if the idea itself was bad rather than the implementation - like the Mako and gear mods from ME1.

[FlamingBoy]

Well I find the reason why people do it is because its existence undermines bioware. There are a significant group of people who find criticism of the company as criticism of themselves (this can be seen all through out media).

One of the early fallacies of this controversy was "why don't you make your own ending" or something along those lines. Well someone bloody did with significantly less resources than bioware. His/her passion of the franchise in admirable.

Back to the original post, the existences shows the disturbing reality that mass effect was cared more about the fans than the actual creators. ME3 was never ending nonsense of multiplayer, day one dlc, concerns about the plot, Microtransactions, developers caught telling lies (or untruths),...., and the ending. As I said in the beginning the existence of MEMEM (In fact anything that shows bioware in an unfavorable light) undermines the company.

Or its possible they just really did not like it

[FlamingBoy]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...


Oh believe me, you and your ilk have all but ensured they'll never try anything new ever again.

Your hostile aren't you:P

Fortunetly since of the usuage of the term "your ilk" I automatically take that as a desire to have a rational conversation with your truly:P:P, hence we can continue the glorious process of critique.


"try anything new"
That is among the vaguest statements ever in relation to the work of bioware, and some how its our fault. Does somthing "new" automatically equal better? I wouldn't think so but I won't harp on that to much.

Mass effect 3 in its core game design was actually quite the opposite of "new" it was in many ways a combination of gears of wars and the powers mechanic of me2. Hence the game went for the "old" by following industry trends, by chasing the never ending golden fleece of the "casual market". Mass effect 1 was new it was fresh, granted that it was inspired by elements of star trek and other sci fi,tried to create an rpg 3rd person with shooter elements.  ME 3 Instead its a 3rd person shooter with very minimal rpg elements.

but lets make this about the ending, dues ex considered by many (not myself, I actually did not enjoy it) to be among the greatest videogames of all time. Lets face it mass effect 3 ending was heavily inspired by dues ex. That in it self shows that they didn't try anything "new".

Honestly, I just don't agree with the concept that bioware even tried anything new with me3 or even that some how "the ilk" were somehow responsible for the demise of the companies "risk taking". They did that all by themselves.

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 14 avril 2013 - 10:24 .

[Eckswhyzed]

I don't hate on MEHEM as long as its suppporters don't jump in with some "Synthesis is rape!!11one!" bull****...

[TurianRebel212]

Who's been hating on MEHEM?!?!?? Seriously, I think it's great fan work. Keep your heads MEHEM users.

[ThinkSharp]

If some people get angry when they hear "the original ending is exactly how it should be. it's art. If you don't get it, you're stupid."

Other people are going to get angry when they hear "MEHEM is exactly how it should have been. It's the best and right ending. If you don't get that, you're stupid."

They're two sides of the same coin.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 14 avril 2013 - 12:15 .

[Bleachrude]

Um...people are actually hating the mod? Strange...haven\\t seen this at all...most I get is indifference.

[RukiaKuchki]

FlamingBoy wrote...

....the existences [of the MEHEM] shows the disturbing reality that mass effect was cared more about the fans than the actual creators. ......As I said in the beginning the existence of MEMEM (In fact anything that shows bioware in an unfavorable light) undermines the company.

I don't think this is true at all. This is a statement like that made by a teenager who tells their parent they have no idea what it feels like to be a teenager. In other words, something that makes me giggle with its absurdity. Bioware created a game that a lot of the fans didn't like. That's it. They didn't sabotage their own game because they didn't care about it. Their way of thinking didn't resonate with some people. The story they wanted to tell was not the story some people wanted to be told. Creating games is a labour of love for most people...the vast majority of people in that business certainly don't do it for the money. 

Rather than undermine Bioware, I actually think Bioware would be quite flattered that someone cares so much about the game that they have invested their time, intellect and skills into taking the bare bones of what Bioware created and expanding on it. Changing it. Manipulating it into something they wanted. The MEHEM demonstrates that there is a portion of the fan base who care so deeply about the franchise, their Shepard and their story that they refuse to walk away until they are satisfied. If there was nothing good there to begin with, people would have walked away a long time ago.

Modifié par RukiaKuchki, 14 avril 2013 - 11:27 .

[Clayless]

The main problem with the MEHEM is people keep on making threads about it outside the Fan Creations forum.

This is Story and Campaign section. AKA, not the "Why do people hate MEHEM" section.

[nrobbiec]

Robosexual wrote...

The main problem with the MEHEM is people keep on making threads about it outside the Fan Creations forum.

This is Story and Campaign section. AKA, not the "Why do people hate MEHEM" section.

Yeah MEHEM is just an au fanfic. Not really much sense in people losing their rag about it if you look at it that way.