213 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

Mr.House wrote...
How is MEHEM a disney ending?

Disney owns everything now, of course.

[TheProtheans]

MegaSovereign wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

iakus wrote...

It's not the "Canon that Sould Be" it's the "Option We should have Had"

There's a difference

Didnt I just read a post by you in another thread saying you're sticking with it as your canon ending?

He is wrong, it is everyone's canon ending.
They just don't know it yet.

I'm assuming that you don't expect people to take this post seriously.

You didn't take it serious? I am offended.

[Iakus]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

iakus wrote...

It's not the "Canon that Sould Be" it's the "Option We should have Had"

There's a difference

Didnt I just read a post by you in another thread saying you're sticking with it as your canon ending?

Sure.  It's my canon.  My canon doesn't interfere with anyone else's canon.  Be it High EMS Destroy, low EMS Control, or Synthesis.  It's all about options, choosing what your canon is.

Unless, of course, Biwoare canonizes an ending, and tehn they've opened up a whole new can of worms

Modifié par iakus, 14 avril 2013 - 07:41 .

[AresKeith]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
How is MEHEM a disney ending?

Disney owns everything now, of course.

Don't give them ideas

[Iakus]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
How is MEHEM a disney ending?

Disney owns everything now, of course.

Okay that's the best point I've seen yet for calling it that

[MegaSovereign]

Tarzan was part of my childhood.

Don't you dare bash Disney. I will fight you guys to the death.

[Riot86]

SiriusXI wrote...

*snip*

When you ask them why IT is banned, they saysoth along the line: "because it is our forum, refer to forum rules § xyz". They can't really logically justify why they banned IT threads.

I recently asked a moderator why IT-related discussions are no longer openly allowed and I did in fact get an decent response.

The reason for this "ban" was simply that the atmosphere on the BSN was awfully hostile concerning IT with both, supporters and critics of the theory, becoming abusive and insulting each other thus making a fruitful discussion of the topic impossible. The mod admitted that it might actually be a bit unfair to completly forbit talking about a certain topic but the BSN team saw no other way to deal with the issue. And seeing how many users still go berserk, promptly "threatening" to report those users/posts/threads to the mods, if someone even mentions something remotely associated with the idea of Shepard being under Reaper influence I kinda think the mods have a point.

So the reason IT should not be disussed anymore is just the behaviour of certain people from both sides here on the board. However, it is NOT due to the fact that IT is considered "fanfic" by BioWare and therefore doesn't count as a valid interpretation of the ending anymore as robertthebard implied.

[Iakus]

makes you wonder how long before all the ME3 forums get closed

edit:  And how quick Bioware will be to try for "edgy and controversial" for their endings...

Modifié par iakus, 14 avril 2013 - 07:53 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

I just don't like people shoving their endings in my face all the damn time, and that is what people who choose MEHEM do.

It's why I hate destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers as well, but have no problem with people who pick those endings. It's the ones who pick their ending, than **** all over everyone elses ending, and than act like everyone should be grateful that they **** all over it, that I have a major problem with.

MEHEM enders don't have as much of a superiority complex as destroyers, but you guys tend to come close at times, dangerously close.

[AllThatJazz]

Hey, nothing wrong with Disney. Aladdin, Toy Story trilogy = pure glorious. Plus Tangled's 'I Have a Dream' is a great song that makes my kids happy, therefore me happy. I will cartoon-punch anyone who says otherwise, in true Disney fashion - involving a large, comedy sized boxing glove and tweeting birds around your head

Nothing wrong with MEHEM, either. I have Destroy (occasionally Paragon Control) as my ending on 360 and I'm okay with them (at last), but MEHEM on PC. And you know what? There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an ending that is a wee bit happier than the original. And the real beauty of it, is that it's a) free and totally optional, so if you want to experience the Devs' vision in all its confusing/grimdark/ambiguous/totally depressing (delete as apt) glory, you CAN. But if you like a little sweet with your bitter (which I definitely do, and feel no shame in admitting it) you can have that too. Everyone's a winner! x

[Dr_Extrem]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I just don't like people shoving their endings in my face all the damn time, and that is what people who choose MEHEM do.

It's why I hate destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers as well, but have no problem with people who pick those endings. It's the ones who pick their ending, than **** all over everyone elses ending, and than act like everyone should be grateful that they **** all over it, that I have a major problem with.

MEHEM enders don't have as much of a superiority complex as destroyers, but you guys tend to come close at times, dangerously close.

i am a day-1 supporter of mehem - i guess everybody knows this by now.

BUT i never preached or tried to convince other people, that it is superior. it is a different approach and it stayes within the borders of the lore. it is not perfect and not better than the other endings. but it might be "better" suited for certain individuals like me. the problem is, that a lot of people do not want to accept, that different people have different opinions. many peoplehere, do not want to enter a true discussion - they only want to set things on fire, ****** around and play their "superiority card".

and i am sick of that.


live and let live.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...
What we can hope for is when they make thier endings, they'll actually put a little more thought into it and try to make stuff that'll appeal to an audience that's wider than the "dark is deep" crowd.

The crux of their idea appeals to a broader, more aware "crowd" than that, and you know it. Stop straw-manning.

The idea failed.  It forced arbitrary tragedy on the player regardless of their actions, forced Shepard to commit morally highly suspect actions in order to "save" the galaxy.  And a big chunk of the audience didn't like it

We can only hope that Bioware learned something from this, that the audience is made up of more than just people who want their character to go out in a blaze of glory.  Or players who don't mind slaughtering their own allies, or who'd  impose their will on an an entire galaxy, whether as an immortal "guardian" who has lost all his/her humanity, or as an avatar of forced "evolution".

Some people simply want to get the job done and go home.  Let the galaxy decide for itself what direction to go.

Does this meet with your approval?

The substance of your position seems to be that certain sorts of moral dilemma simply should never be present in games. Or perhaps some subcategory of games, like Bio games or ME games.

Note that the bolded sentence is way off point. If you don't mind the choices, the design has failed to present you with a serious dilemma. 

[chemiclord]

I don't HATE the modder (Mr. Fob and I have had a good handful of respectful discussions, even if we don't agree).

I don't even particularly HATE the mod itself. If it actually satisfies you to the point where you can stop crying after one year, go for it!

I don't even hate fanfiction, I owe my "big break" (for whatever that means) to it. Hell, I even have a ME fanfiction I've been dabbling with this last year. But I do dislike fanfiction that alters the creator's intent, a line that the MEHEM tiptoes closer than I would like; for example, there are explanations given to the changes that claim they aren't really changes at all, like removing the Catalyst entirely, that I don't entirely accept but can't logically refute.

MEHEM comes very close to disrespecting the creator's vision in my opinion, which I do believe at the very least should be preserved. I am wary of outright accusing Mr. Fob of doing so (because I know that was not his intent in the slightest), but I won't deny it that I am not entirely comfortable with it.

Modifié par chemiclord, 14 avril 2013 - 08:46 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

It's called a fixfic chemiclord, and people have done it all the time. They've just never had one be this successful until now.

[AlanC9]

chemiclord wrote...
....for example, there are explanations given to the changes that claim they aren't really changes at all, like removing the Catalyst entirely, that I don't entirely accept but can't logically refute..

How does that explanation work?

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...
What we can hope for is when they make thier endings, they'll actually put a little more thought into it and try to make stuff that'll appeal to an audience that's wider than the "dark is deep" crowd.

The crux of their idea appeals to a broader, more aware "crowd" than that, and you know it. Stop straw-manning.

The idea failed.  It forced arbitrary tragedy on the player regardless of their actions, forced Shepard to commit morally highly suspect actions in order to "save" the galaxy.  And a big chunk of the audience didn't like it

We can only hope that Bioware learned something from this, that the audience is made up of more than just people who want their character to go out in a blaze of glory.  Or players who don't mind slaughtering their own allies, or who'd  impose their will on an an entire galaxy, whether as an immortal "guardian" who has lost all his/her humanity, or as an avatar of forced "evolution".

Some people simply want to get the job done and go home.  Let the galaxy decide for itself what direction to go.

Does this meet with your approval?

The substance of your position seems to be that certain sorts of moral dilemma simply should never be present in games. Or perhaps some subcategory of games, like Bio games or ME games.

I believe that a game should be consistent in what it allows its players to be, yes.  It shouldn't screw a particular rpg playstyle in literally the closing minutes of a game.

If the endings work for other players, and their own Shepards, that's fine.  But I want, nay need, an ending that fits for my Shepard.  If all the chocies I made across three games really helped shape my Shepard's story, there should have been something for him as well.

Note that the bolded sentence is way off point. If you don't mind the choices, the design has failed to present you with a serious dilemma. 

A "serious dilemma" should show benefits as well as drawbacks.  Personally, I see very little in the way of benefits besides "Hooray, I didn't kill the galaxy!"   I kinda need a little more than that to feel any satisfaction from teh endings

.  Keep in mind, I have played the original endings.  And I felt like I did something wrong even after picking what I found to be the "best" choice.  That wasn't just "not fun" for me, that's antifun.  The kind that makes me think the entire Mass Effect trilogy was a five year long troll on me from biwoare.

[webhead921]

As someone who didn't really have any problems with the original ending, I applaud the MEHEM. I really do believe that "canon" for Mass Effect is what you make it to be. Bioware made a game where the player can influence their own story to suit their own preferences. If someone wants to modify the game to get the ending they want, more power to them. It's a great example of fan creativity. Shepard's story is whatever each individual player wants it to be. For my "canon" Shepard, the story ends with the destruction of the reapers. I imagine that rescue crews find Shepard alive in the ruins, and she is eventually reunited with Kaidan, where they live a quiet and happy life. That's canon to me. If someone has the skill and ability to create their own desired ending, that's great. That's just as much canon for them as my imagined epilogue is canon for me. Their enjoyment of the MEHEM does not affect my enjoyment of the Extended cut plus my imagined epilogue. Every one can enjoy their own thing, and that's fine.

[chemiclord]

AlanC9 wrote...

How does that explanation work?

The explanation I got was that the Catalyst is still technically there; but because the mod had already decided on a course of action, the extrapolation dump wasn't necessary, and it was easier to just leave the conversation implied rather than rewrite it and record new dialogue for it.

I don't entirely BUY that explanation, mind you (I think the main reason was because Mr. Fob found the Catalyst so jarring that its presence is a complete game breaker for him), but there IS a viable explanation for doing so, however flimsy it is.

Modifié par chemiclord, 14 avril 2013 - 09:19 .

[Link Ashland 614]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
BUT i never preached or tried to convince other people, that it is superior. it is a different approach and it stayes within the borders of the lore. it is not perfect and not better than the other endings. but it might be "better" suited for certain individuals like me. the problem is, that a lot of people do not want to accept, that different people have different opinions. many peoplehere, do not want to enter a true discussion - they only want to set things on fire, ****** around and play their "superiority card".

and i am sick of that.


live and let live.

So much this, my dislike for MEHEM is the fan reaction, not the mod itself. It's fine liking the mod, I liked it before the EC and such, but making it like "we fans are better than Bioware because this mod, and if you dont like the mod, you're "insert insult here" "

It's been always the fan's reactions that make me cringe, not the thing they're fan of. Hell, I even respect Twilight as a book, but the fans are the negative thing, making themselves think they're better than others for liking ot not liking things.

Sometimes I think being a fan of something is hating everything, even the thing you're fan of, and that's completely not okay. At all.

Modifié par Link Ashland 614, 14 avril 2013 - 09:22 .

[Cagamelo]

I'm not a fan of MEHEM, I don't care if you use it or not.
I'm also not a green, blue or red ending supporter, I just pick what goes better with my Shep's personality.
I also don't care what ending random person on the internet number 10999 picked, as long as it doesn't affect my game, which it doesn't, for all I care you can exterminate the whole galaxy on your save. What I just described to you in this last paragraph is called being sane.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Robosexual wrote...

The main problem with the MEHEM is people keep on making threads about it outside the Fan Creations forum.

This is Story and Campaign section. AKA, not the "Why do people hate MEHEM" section.

Yup, this.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It's a mod. It's actually more in line with the more optimistic end that one producer had in mind for the ending, but one main writer did not. That ending however was still supposed to be an open ending. Bioware has given the mod a hand wave. It is in the fan creations section. I don't know why we're discussing this in the spoiler's section.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

The substance of your position seems to be that certain sorts of moral dilemma simply should never be present in games. Or perhaps some subcategory of games, like Bio games or ME games.

I believe that a game should be consistent in what it allows its players to be, yes.  It shouldn't screw a particular rpg playstyle in literally the closing minutes of a game.

If the endings work for other players, and their own Shepards, that's fine.  But I want, nay need, an ending that fits for my Shepard.  If all the chocies I made across three games really helped shape my Shepard's story, there should have been something for him as well.

I'm not sure "playstyle" is the right concept there. If it's simply a matter of playstyle, then people who, say, like PC  sacrifice could simply pick the "my character dies" choice.   As you're well aware from these threads, that doesn't work. And if you like being faced with moral dilemmas, you can't actually have a way out of the purported dilemma or it's not a dilemma in the first place.

A "serious dilemma" should show benefits as well as drawbacks.  Personally, I see very little in the way of benefits besides "Hooray, I didn't kill the galaxy!"   I kinda need a little more than that to feel any satisfaction from teh endings

This sounds like a criticism of the execution rather than of the basic concept.

[Nole]

If MEHEM actually satisfies you to the point where you can STOP CRYING AFTER A YEAR, go for it!

[AlanC9]

chemiclord wrote...
The explanation I got was that the Catalyst is still technically there; but because the mod had already decided on a course of action, the extrapolation dump wasn't necessary, and it was easier to just leave the conversation implied rather than rewrite it and record new dialogue for it.

So all the endings are like low EMS, right? No choice, so no point in the Catalyst even talking to Shepard.

OK, I guess it technically  works.  But yeah, I don't buy it either.