213 réponses à ce sujet

[Iucounou]

AresKeith wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Disney owns everything now, of course.

Don't give them ideas

Too late...

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.destructo...in-223164.phtml

because this thread is too serious...

[Dr_Extrem]

chemiclord wrote...

I don't HATE the modder (Mr. Fob and I have had a good handful of respectful discussions, even if we don't agree).

I don't even particularly HATE the mod itself. If it actually satisfies you to the point where you can stop crying after one year, go for it!

I don't even hate fanfiction, I owe my "big break" (for whatever that means) to it. Hell, I even have a ME fanfiction I've been dabbling with this last year. But I do dislike fanfiction that alters the creator's intent, a line that the MEHEM tiptoes closer than I would like; for example, there are explanations given to the changes that claim they aren't really changes at all, like removing the Catalyst entirely, that I don't entirely accept but can't logically refute.

MEHEM comes very close to disrespecting the creator's vision in my opinion, which I do believe at the very least should be preserved. I am wary of outright accusing Mr. Fob of doing so (because I know that was not his intent in the slightest), but I won't deny it that I am not entirely comfortable with it.

i saw a fairy tail movie today on kika (kinderkanal), while i was cleaning my flat. (the rest of the tv-program was horrible). it was a recent film version of "rumpelstilzchen". several parts of the movie were very different from the original tale.

it was a remake and remakes are often different from the original versions. this happens within the framework of artistic freedom. this happens very often, whenever an old story is told in a different way.


mehem also fits within this context. its a remake with the use of artistic freedom.

[Eterna]

I just saw the latest version of it on youtube. Pretty nice, but dat voice acting, you guys called chobot bad?

Also, the suicide mission score feels incredibly out of place.

Overall though, nice work. I'm glad you guys are happy(ish?) with an ending. Now shut up about the endings. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 14 avril 2013 - 10:40 .

[Dr_Extrem]

AlanC9 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...
The explanation I got was that the Catalyst is still technically there; but because the mod had already decided on a course of action, the extrapolation dump wasn't necessary, and it was easier to just leave the conversation implied rather than rewrite it and record new dialogue for it.

So all the endings are like low EMS, right? No choice, so no point in the Catalyst even talking to Shepard.

OK, I guess it technically  works.  But yeah, I don't buy it either.

the trick is, that you can pretent that the discussion still happens as normal but it is not shown. the audience sees, what happens outside and what the crew does, while shepard talks to the catalyst.

its just a different pov.



you dont have to buy it - you are happy with the original/ec endings - but it works quite well.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 14 avril 2013 - 10:42 .

[Faust1979]

SiriusXI wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The reason people attack it is lingering animosity against the retakers. They always claimed they weren't upset because the ending was sad. They always said they had such great reasons for being upset. And then every single time something came along that made things happier, regardless of whether or not it made sense, they got happier.

You can understand why people would harbor ill will to this group of entitled half-wits that destroyed this community for the sake of their waifus.

Yeah, this "community"... online communities are full of sh*t most of the times. The only exception I have encountered is the baldur's gate community, because it mainly consists of older, maturer people.

This community, however, is just so mindblowingly stupid. MEHEM makes the game better, because it REMOVES THE CATALYST. Do you get that? Do you? I'll say it again. Said it 1.000 times before:

The ONLY REASON MEHEM makes the game better, is because it REMOVES THE CATALYST!


People who actually care about story & lore realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.

Most independent reviwers (who's employees are not actual characters in the game) realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.


But it's over and so I don't give a sh*t anymore. But I'd be somewhat content if this forum will remain that toxic. I hope Bioware realizes that, when they see all this hate within their community, they will never screw up this bad again. Then at least there would br something decent about this ending.

without the cataylyst the game makes no sense and ruins the story. Take out the catalyst and you're left with no answers to why the Reapers are doing what they are doing and why.  You say the catalyst doesn't fit in with the lore but I say it does and it works great. Just because you don't like the answers that was provided doesn't mean that it doesn't work

[Dr_Extrem]

Faust1979 wrote...

SiriusXI wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The reason people attack it is lingering animosity against the retakers. They always claimed they weren't upset because the ending was sad. They always said they had such great reasons for being upset. And then every single time something came along that made things happier, regardless of whether or not it made sense, they got happier.

You can understand why people would harbor ill will to this group of entitled half-wits that destroyed this community for the sake of their waifus.

Yeah, this "community"... online communities are full of sh*t most of the times. The only exception I have encountered is the baldur's gate community, because it mainly consists of older, maturer people.

This community, however, is just so mindblowingly stupid. MEHEM makes the game better, because it REMOVES THE CATALYST. Do you get that? Do you? I'll say it again. Said it 1.000 times before:

The ONLY REASON MEHEM makes the game better, is because it REMOVES THE CATALYST!


People who actually care about story & lore realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.

Most independent reviwers (who's employees are not actual characters in the game) realize that the catalyst does not fit into the series.


But it's over and so I don't give a sh*t anymore. But I'd be somewhat content if this forum will remain that toxic. I hope Bioware realizes that, when they see all this hate within their community, they will never screw up this bad again. Then at least there would br something decent about this ending.

without the cataylyst the game makes no sense and ruins the story. Take out the catalyst and you're left with no answers to why the Reapers are doing what they are doing and why.  You say the catalyst doesn't fit in with the lore but I say it does and it works great. Just because you don't like the answers that was provided doesn't mean that it doesn't work

that depends. i dont need answers - i have to save the galaxy.

it does not matter why the reapers do what they do - they will be dead in 5 minutes. if you have leviathan installed, you basically get your answers before the ending and the need for the catalysts appearence is no longer needed.

for me, no explanation is better than a ludicrous one.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 14 avril 2013 - 11:02 .

[robertthebard]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

that depends. i dont need answers - i have to save the galaxy.

it does not matter why the reapers do what they do - they will be dead in 5 minutes. if you have leviathan installed, you basically get your answers before the ending and the need for the catalysts appearence is no longer needed.

no explanation is better than a ludicrous one.

I don't even view the dialog as answers, I view it as moustache twirling exposition, and after forcing myself to swallow the Harbinger DeM to get a Shepard for a NG+ save, I can't get out of the dialog fast enough to shoot the tube.

[cljqnsnyc]

One thing you can always count on is people finding a reason...ANY REASON....to complain about EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING!!!! Really! If you enjoyed the original 3 endings, why would you bother to come here and try to tell other people what THEY should or should not like? I despised all 3 endings and for me...this mod saved the trilogy. If people don't like that...SO WHAT!! Mods are meant for people who want them. If you aren't interested in using them...it's simple...DON'T USE THEM!!!!! It makes no sense to complain about something that isn't relevant to your game or playstyle. But again, some people aren't satisfied unless they can control what others think, feel, how they play a game, and on, and on, and on.


Save your energy....play the game the way YOU want to and let others do the same.

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 14 avril 2013 - 11:03 .

[David7204]

This is just pigheaded hindsight bias. Leaving the Reapers unexplained would be incredibly poor storytelling.

[cljqnsnyc]

IMO the explanation they came up with made absolutely zero sense whatsoever. But, that's a conversation that has long been exhausted. Nothing can be done about that now. The only thing that could have been done was to mod the ending and give a 4th option to those who wanted it.

Pigheaded? What is the point of that? People have a real hard time allowing others to play a game...and everything else mind you...the way THEY want to!

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 14 avril 2013 - 11:10 .

[The Twilight God]

nrobbiec wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

The main problem with the MEHEM is people keep on making threads about it outside the Fan Creations forum.

This is Story and Campaign section. AKA, not the "Why do people hate MEHEM" section.

Yeah MEHEM is just an au fanfic. Not really much sense in people losing their rag about it if you look at it that way.

It's as much canon as anything else really. Especially if the ME universe concludes at the end of ME3 as it does for many as there is nothing further to contest its outcome.

[Dr_Extrem]

David7204 wrote...

This is just pigheaded hindsight bias. Leaving the Reapers unexplained would be incredibly poor storytelling.

Not if executed well and if hints can be found over the course of the series. And the series is full of hints.

I always thought, that the reapers were caretakers, who kept the galaxies civilisations in check to prevent utter dominence of one species. This thought was planted in mass effect 1 by vigil and the overall theme and presentation. If you have a solid idea on why the reapers do what they do, you don't need an explanation.

This worked very well for me.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Yeah, I don't respect Casey and SuperMac's vision. I think it's crap. A bad idea.

I'm okay with MEHEM, but I still prefer the ending that I made myself.

I hate the Catalyst too, though not for the reasons a lot of people do. I hate his appearance, his problem, and his logic. The problem of the Reapers wasn't a problem until he made it a problem. I wish I had the ability to tell him that, and to tell him that he's full of it, and that I'm going to destroy him. I wish the Geth and the Relays didn't have to be destroyed, since I think that was just tacked on damage to make destroy look less palatable.

As for my own ending, I rewrite the motivation of the Reapers. They're a race of organic machine hybrids that have a tremendous ego (stipulated by the arrogance of Leviathan) in their own machine perfection and order, and this mandates them to eradicate the impurity of all lesser beings. The Reapers take "pity" on some of the lesser beings and forcibly "ascend" those races to their level of existence as a new Reaper, thus creating new Reapers. This is revealed to Shepard when he is forcibly subjected to mental and emotional torture by Harbinger who breaks his will by showing the destruction of Earth, Humanity, and the Galaxy and forcing him to endure the pain of a person being harvested. Harbinger shows him the deaths of his friends, but when he shows him Miranda, Shepard's love for her causes him to resist and slowly fight back. TIM, having been transformed into a Reaper monstrosity, sees what the Reapers have done to his vision and to humanity. TIM sacrifices himself (along with a dying Anderson) to prime the Crucible for firing. This causes Harbinger to be weakened long enough for Shepard to break his hold and fire the Crucible. This causes an energy pulse that temporarily overloads the Reapers indoctrination (and instantly destroys all husks) and causes the Reapers to completely reboot. While this happens, the Reapers Barriers are deactivated, allowing the fleets to destroy the Reapers around Earth. The energy pulse is then transmitted through the galaxy and the power of the pulse is magnified by each successive mass relay that it hits, temporarily overloading the major ones, and heavily damaging the minor relays. The strain of firing the Crucible causes the Citadel to tear itself apart and for the pieces to be left orbiting the Earth. Shepard somehow survives (haven't worked that out yet; not doing a Normandy rescue. I like the idea of him being thought dead, only to be found and to awaken in the hospital to see Miranda standing over him and holding his hand). The pulse also has a noticeable effect on the warships of the fleets, but since they aren't directly made from Reaper tech, the fleets are able to overcome the damage. The Geth are reverted back to their pre-Reaper tech state, though with full memories of their perspective. EDI is permanently destroyed.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 avril 2013 - 11:16 .

[Iakus]

David7204 wrote...

This is just pigheaded hindsight bias. Leaving the Reapers unexplained would be incredibly poor storytelling.

Given they were portrayed as something akin to Lovecraftian horrors in ME1, I would have been totally comfortable with their never having a clear explanation for their actions.  Quite simply:  the reasons would be inexplicable to us, they are operating o na level of thought beyond our comprehension.  

You know "An ant has no quarrel with a boot"

Or as Vigil put it:  "In the end, what does it matter?  Your survival depends on stopping the Reapers, not in understanding them"  

I'm totally down with that.

[David7204]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

David7204 wrote...

This is just pigheaded hindsight bias. Leaving the Reapers unexplained would be incredibly poor storytelling.

Not if executed well and if hints can be found over the course of the series. And the series is full of hints.

I always thought, that the reapers were caretakers, who kept the galaxies civilisations in check to prevent utter dominence of one species. This thought was planted in mass effect 1 by vigil and the overall theme and presentation. If you have a solid idea on why the reapers do what they do, you don't need an explanation.

This worked very well for me.

I don't remember Vigil saying anything even remotely like that. Nor does the 'overall theme and presentation' indicate anything of the sort.

So having the Crucible go off without a hitch would lead us without an explanation and without a 'solid idea.'

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

David7204 wrote...

This is just pigheaded hindsight bias. Leaving the Reapers unexplained would be incredibly poor storytelling.

Not if executed well and if hints can be found over the course of the series. And the series is full of hints.

I always thought, that the reapers were caretakers, who kept the galaxies civilisations in check to prevent utter dominence of one species. This thought was planted in mass effect 1 by vigil and the overall theme and presentation. If you have a solid idea on why the reapers do what they do, you don't need an explanation.

This worked very well for me.

I don't remember Vigil saying anything even remotely like that. Nor does the 'overall theme and presentation' indicate anything of the sort.

So having the Crucible go off without a hitch would lead us without an explanation and without a 'solid idea.'

Just because you don't like doesn't make it a bad idea.

And just because you don't like it give you the right to insult other people's intelligence.

You don't need to have the Reapers be explained to have issues that arise out of using the Crucible. You can have conflict in the story without explaining the Reapers origins or motivation.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 avril 2013 - 11:20 .

[Ayslin66]

Looks like we have three groups. 1 - liked the original ending. 2 - Those who liked the extended cut. 3 - Those who liked this mod that was created.

Hum... *pretends to ponder this* Why does it matter? Who gives a flippity-flop either way? Apparently several, but honestly, why?

Lets take Dragon Age Origins, for example. There are SEVERAL Ending options for a player, who is willing to play through many times, with the different origins available, and, with the different choices on how it ends.

Having said that, how does the MEMEM, Original ending, or Extended cut differ in this? It's the same concept. Modders altered DA: O to the brim. Tweaked romances, added weddings etc.

Everyone takes a story differently. We may have like minded opinions on the nuances, but no one sees things exact as the next person.

Good lordy. Live and let live, It is not life altering, nor is it going to ruin the world. Stress about real issues. Not how one perceives a game.

@ SiriusXI Removing the catalyst, in my personal opinion, was brilliant.

Modifié par Ayslin66, 14 avril 2013 - 11:38 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Ayslin66 wrote...

Looks like we have three groups. 1 - liked the original ending. 2 - Those who liked the extended cut. 3 - Those who liked this mod that was created.

Hum... *pretends to ponder this* Why does it matter? Who gives a flippity-flop either way? Apparently several, but honestly, why?

Lets take Dragon Age Origins, for example. There are SEVERAL Ending options for a player, who is willing to play through many times, with the different origins available, and, with the different choices on how it ends.

Having said that, how does the MEMEM, Original ending, or Extended cut differ in this? It's the same concept. Modders altered DA: O to the brim. Tweaked romances, added weddings etc.

Everyone takes a story differently. We may have like minded opinions on the nuances, but no one sees things exact as the next person.

Good lordy. Live and let live, It is not life altering, nor is it going to ruin the world. Stress about real issues. Not how one perceives a game.

I agree with this up until the very last part.

I'm not a particular fan of people who tell others to get over a games. I've always seen that as an act of incredible pretension. Not that that was what you were trying to do or anything, but some people like to debate and argue and have the "I'm more right than you'll ever be" fights. I say, let em' do it.

[chemiclord]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the trick is, that you can pretent that the discussion still happens as normal but it is not shown. the audience sees, what happens outside and what the crew does, while shepard talks to the catalyst.

its just a different pov.



you dont have to buy it - you are happy with the original/ec endings - but it works quite well.

But I thought it was oh-so-terrible to have to headcanon things about the ending.  At least, that's a common complaint I've been hearing.

If it's not good for the endings as is, it shouldn't be acceptable for the MEHEM either.

Modifié par chemiclord, 14 avril 2013 - 11:53 .

[Ayslin66]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Ayslin66 wrote...

Looks like we have three groups. 1 - liked the original ending. 2 - Those who liked the extended cut. 3 - Those who liked this mod that was created.

Hum... *pretends to ponder this* Why does it matter? Who gives a flippity-flop either way? Apparently several, but honestly, why?

Lets take Dragon Age Origins, for example. There are SEVERAL Ending options for a player, who is willing to play through many times, with the different origins available, and, with the different choices on how it ends.

Having said that, how does the MEMEM, Original ending, or Extended cut differ in this? It's the same concept. Modders altered DA: O to the brim. Tweaked romances, added weddings etc.

Everyone takes a story differently. We may have like minded opinions on the nuances, but no one sees things exact as the next person.

Good lordy. Live and let live, It is not life altering, nor is it going to ruin the world. Stress about real issues. Not how one perceives a game.

I agree with this up until the very last part.

I'm not a particular fan of people who tell others to get over a games. I've always seen that as an act of incredible pretension. Not that that was what you were trying to do or anything, but some people like to debate and argue and have the "I'm more right than you'll ever be" fights. I say, let em' do it.

Yeah. I was not saying "Get over the game" I was saying, there is no reason to stress and fight so angrily about it. I am all for a good debate. I am just sad to see people get so ugly towards one another. Once you start bullying, or having tantrums, you've technically lost all credibility. 

[AlanC9]

Dr_Extrem wrote...


the trick is, that you can pretent that the discussion still happens as normal but it is not shown. the audience sees, what happens outside and what the crew does, while shepard talks to the catalyst.

its just a different pov.



you dont have to buy it - you are happy with the original/ec endings - but it works quite well.

Wait.... you guys actually prefer not seeing the conversation to seeing it? When it's your character in the conversation?

Saying that the conversation doesn't happen at all makes a kind of sense, but this is just weird.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Ayslin66 wrote...

Yeah. I was not saying "Get over the game" I was saying, there is no reason to stress and fight so angrily about it. I am all for a good debate. I am just sad to see people get so ugly towards one another. Once you start bullying, or having tantrums, you've technically lost all credibility. 

Or the insults and ad hominems. There are several particular synthesis fans out there that love to use those.

That's not an argument against synthesis, that's an argument against some particular fans of synthesis. People know who I'm talking about. Calling all fans of destroy luddites and psychopaths who encourage BW to lower their standards since the destroyers are troglodytes who can't understand art.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 avril 2013 - 11:55 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AlanC9 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...


the trick is, that you can pretent that the discussion still happens as normal but it is not shown. the audience sees, what happens outside and what the crew does, while shepard talks to the catalyst.

its just a different pov.



you dont have to buy it - you are happy with the original/ec endings - but it works quite well.

Wait.... you guys actually prefer not seeing the conversation to seeing it? When it's your character in the conversation?

Saying that the conversation doesn't happen at all makes a kind of sense, but this is just weird.

I agree. That's a very odd way of putting it. So instead of just cutting out the conversation, it still happens as is seen, you just don't see it happening...

I was always under the impression that MEHEM deleted the conversation.

[Dean_the_Young]

SiriusXI wrote...

nrobbiec wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

The main problem with the MEHEM is people keep on making threads about it outside the Fan Creations forum.

This is Story and Campaign section. AKA, not the "Why do people hate MEHEM" section.

Yeah MEHEM is just an au fanfic. Not really much sense in people losing their rag about it if you look at it that way.

The fact that a lot of people consider it better than the original, at least better than synthesis, control and refuse, clearly shows that it is a topic that is worth talking about. If we go by popularity, MEHEM has more right to be in the story section than control and synthesis.

And if you go by logical fallacies, your argument is still based on a fallacy.

The fancreation section is for all fancreations, not just the unpopular ones.

Furthermore, it does not really matter if it is canon or not. It IS story relevant, simply because it is NOT part of the canon story. This absence in the story is a valid criticism OF the story. Therefore MEHEM is perfectly fine in the story section.

It is on topic because it is not part of the topic of the subforum.

Yeaaah... that's just doublethink.

[chemiclord]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

i saw a fairy tail movie today on kika (kinderkanal), while i was cleaning my flat. (the rest of the tv-program was horrible). it was a recent film version of "rumpelstilzchen". several parts of the movie were very different from the original tale.

it was a remake and remakes are often different from the original versions. this happens within the framework of artistic freedom. this happens very often, whenever an old story is told in a different way.


mehem also fits within this context. its a remake with the use of artistic freedom.

I'd accept this, if the point was to replace the theme presented by the Catalyst with some other point to be made.  But MEHEM isn't remaking anything to try and present a different theme... it's outright cutting something and not giving the experience anything in its place.

That can certainly be interpreted as nothing short of a big middle finger to the creator (though in fairness to Mr. Fob, I do not believe that was his intent, I suspect had he had the time and opportunity he'd have rewritten the whole thing).

Modifié par chemiclord, 15 avril 2013 - 12:09 .