213 réponses à ce sujet

[ruggly]

Eterna5 wrote...

I just saw the latest version of it on youtube. Pretty nice, but dat voice acting, you guys called chobot bad?

Also, the suicide mission score feels incredibly out of place.

Overall though, nice work. I'm glad you guys are happy(ish?) with an ending. Now shut up about the endings. 

Chobot is bad, but as fans with most likely zero experience with being on screen or recording anything, it's going to be a little shoddy.

And someone is working on a new score to replace the suicide mission.  Or if someone feels up to it, they can go in and change the score themself.  I'd try, but I know I'd make the entire thing crash. Plus, it's an ongoing project, still room for improvement.

I'd call it not as much happy, but 'happier.' But I'll take a mod that still has plotholes and other issues, but is at least emotionally satisfying, instead of three flavors of sacrifice that don't give me emotional closure.  I kind of like to mash the current ending with the MEHEM in my mind.  At 7000 EMS, I think I'll headcanon the crucible not using the contrived act of destroying synthetics.

Modifié par ruggly, 15 avril 2013 - 12:11 .

[Phatose]

Hm.

I think there's a big mistake in this thread. I'd wager that people who dislike the mod, by and large, are perfectly content completely ignoring it. Unfortunately, there's a contingent here that feels the need to bring up the mod in threads clearly discussing canonical material.

One can avoid playing MEHEM just by not installing it. Avoiding discussion of it *should* be as simple as staying out of the fan-creations board. It is not, however.

Were fans of the mod willing to limit their discussion of it to the appropriate places, there would be no hating on it here - simply because there wouldn't be any discussion of it at all.

[chemiclord]

It's brought up here because of that contingent that is compelled to rub Bioware's face in it while screaming, "THIS IS THE ENDING WE DESERVE! **** YOU BIOWARE!" 

Which is rather amusing, considering the person who put it together is the one person who has yet to comment on it altogether outside the fan creations forum.

Modifié par chemiclord, 15 avril 2013 - 02:59 .

[AresKeith]

Being able to discuss MEHEM in this section shouldn't be a problem

But the issue here is that you have one group of people calling it the true ending which.discounts other peoples ending.choice and you have another group of people acting smug as always treating it like the IT

[MegaSovereign]

Why is this thread still open?...

[dreamgazer]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Why is this thread still open?...

Chaos reigns.

[chemiclord]

By and large, the mods allow mob rules until things either wander into a taboo topic, are blatantly off-topic, or the discourse becomes excessively vitriolic.

[AlanC9]

AresKeith wrote...

Being able to discuss MEHEM in this section shouldn't be a problem

But the issue here is that you have one group of people calling it the true ending which.discounts other peoples ending.choice and you have another group of people acting smug as always treating it like the IT

Well, there's an obvious difference there, since MEHEM actually exists.

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Being able to discuss MEHEM in this section shouldn't be a problem

But the issue here is that you have one group of people calling it the true ending which.discounts other peoples ending.choice and you have another group of people acting smug as always treating it like the IT

Well, there's an obvious difference there, since MEHEM actually exists.

Even though MEHEM is a mod it's still another ending for the ones who accept it/download it

[Riot86]

AlanC9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Being able to discuss MEHEM in this section shouldn't be a problem

But the issue here is that you have one group of people calling it the true ending which.discounts other peoples ending.choice and you have another group of people acting smug as always treating it like the IT

Well, there's an obvious difference there, since MEHEM actually exists.

Well, the interpretation of the ending called IT does actually exist.

That does of course not necessarily mean that one has to view it as a good or even as a "correct" interpretation. It is you're right to dislike the idea of Shepard being indoctrinated. But the fact that you don't agree with that very specific interpretation doesn't negate its existence.

Modifié par Riot86, 15 avril 2013 - 04:03 .

[Phatose]

Look, on a fundamental level it comes down to this: You don't get to claim it's worthy of discussion, then brush off criticisms of it with "Oh, but you don't have to install it!".

Either it's worth discussing - in which case criticism (the so called hating) is acceptable - or it's not, in which case it shouldn't be discussed at all.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Phatose wrote...

Look, on a fundamental level it comes down to this: You don't get to claim it's worthy of discussion, then brush off criticisms of it with "Oh, but you don't have to install it!".

Either it's worth discussing - in which case criticism (the so called hating) is acceptable - or it's not, in which case it shouldn't be discussed at all.

I certainly think it's acceptable.

Some of BW's comments (what few there are) about MEHEM more or less sound like they accept it's existence for fans, and consider it a valid interpretation for those fans, if for no other reason than to get them to shut up about the ending.

Hell, as far as I know, Citadel actually works well with MEHEM behind it. Citadel has a feel of ambiguity of when it can take place. I think that was intentional, and I certainly believe that it's very simple to have Citadel (or the party at least) take place post-war.

[Iakus]

Phatose wrote...

Look, on a fundamental level it comes down to this: You don't get to claim it's worthy of discussion, then brush off criticisms of it with "Oh, but you don't have to install it!".

Either it's worth discussing - in which case criticism (the so called hating) is acceptable - or it's not, in which case it shouldn't be discussed at all.

Sure it's worth discussing.

Criticism is certainly one thing.  "I prefer the regular High EMS Destroy ending because..."

"it's just a rainbows and unicorns ending" really doesn't leave much room for civil discussion.

[Riot86]

Phatose wrote...

Look, on a fundamental level it comes down to this: You don't get to claim it's worthy of discussion, then brush off criticisms of it with "Oh, but you don't have to install it!".

Either it's worth discussing - in which case criticism (the so called hating) is acceptable - or it's not, in which case it shouldn't be discussed at all.

Agreed.

If MEHEM related threads are opened in the "Story and Campaign Discussion" section of the board, then people should be allowed to criticize it even if some MEHEM supporters obviously don't like to hear what (potential) flaws this mod might have storywise. However, the problem with this critique is, that some people just refuse to engage in a serious discussion by rather harshly saying that it is fanfic and thus should be moved to the fanfic-section. The following response of the MEHEM fans then often is (like you pointed out correctly) a snippy "Oh, but you don't have to install it!", which is counterproductive for the discussion as well.

I haven't played MEHEM yet, so I really don't have an opinion on it one way or another. But as another user in this thread pointed out before, for many fans MEHEM is a way how they pictured ME 3 might end in the first place. And since threads like "How would you imagine YOUR perfect ending for the trilogy" are allowed here, I don't see the harm in allowing MEHEM related threads as well.

Modifié par Riot86, 15 avril 2013 - 04:26 .

[Wolfva2]

Phatose wrote...

Hm.

I think there's a big mistake in this thread. I'd wager that people who dislike the mod, by and large, are perfectly content completely ignoring it. Unfortunately, there's a contingent here that feels the need to bring up the mod in threads clearly discussing canonical material.

One can avoid playing MEHEM just by not installing it. Avoiding discussion of it *should* be as simple as staying out of the fan-creations board. It is not, however.

Were fans of the mod willing to limit their discussion of it to the appropriate places, there would be no hating on it here - simply because there wouldn't be any discussion of it at all.

QFT.   Personally I don't like MEHEM.  I watched it on Youtube, thought, "Meh, em, I think that sucked."  So I never DL'd it, and will never use it.  I'm not about to rail at others who DO like it though.  After all, their liking of something *I* dislike has absolutely NO bearing on me at all whatsoever.  It doesn't invalidate my feelings, and I'm mature enough to NOT need THEIR validation on how I feel.

Which, I think, is the root of all these threads about disliking something, be it the endings or MEHEM or Chobit or whatever.  Validation.  People don't like these things, but they're insecure enough to want to be told they're right not to like them.  Humans are herd animals after all, and the herd likes to be together.  So, they write a thread decrying something they don't like to get the comfort of agreement from others.  Which is why they tend to get so angry when someone disagrees.  When you're looking for validation and you don't get it...  Well, ask any guy who's GF has asked him, "Do I look fat in this?"

[k.lalh]

Why is this thread still alive?

If you like it, DL it. If you don't, ignore it.

A better question would be: Why is a discussion about a mod in the Story/Campaign discussion forum?

[AresKeith]

giving criticism isn't a bad thing, my previous post on this page basically explained it

[Phatose]

iakus wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Look, on a fundamental level it comes down to this: You don't get to claim it's worthy of discussion, then brush off criticisms of it with "Oh, but you don't have to install it!".

Either it's worth discussing - in which case criticism (the so called hating) is acceptable - or it's not, in which case it shouldn't be discussed at all.

Sure it's worth discussing.

Criticism is certainly one thing.  "I prefer the regular High EMS Destroy ending because..."

"it's just a rainbows and unicorns ending" really doesn't leave much room for civil discussion.

I think it actually does.  That's the thing - at it's core, the rainbows and unicorns are it's purpose.  It doesn't change the endings to be more consistent or well executed.  Just makes them happier.

Should lead directly into either a defense that it isn't intended that way - seems unlikely to me, but it's possible - or a claim that a clumsily executed happy ending is better then a clumisly executed bittersweet or sad ending.

Nobody seems all that interested in doing either though.

[chemiclord]

Phatose wrote...
I think it actually does.  That's the thing - at it's core, the rainbows and unicorns are it's purpose.  It doesn't change the endings to be more consistent or well executed.  Just makes them happier.

Should lead directly into either a defense that it isn't intended that way - seems unlikely to me, but it's possible - or a claim that a clumsily executed happy ending is better then a clumisly executed bittersweet or sad ending.

Nobody seems all that interested in doing either though.

Because that's a discussion that is pretty simple.

It's not an either/or discussion.  If something is going to be stupid, people are going to prefer something stupid that makes them feel good over something stupid that makes them feel bad.  That's not a discussion, that's just common sense.

And that's exactly what it's intended to do; the mod's creator really doesn't hide that fact, either.  And personally, that's fine... I'd only have preferred he not alter Bioware's provided content to do so.

[CrutchCricket]

Phatose wrote...
I think it actually does.  That's the thing - at it's core, the rainbows and unicorns are it's purpose.  It doesn't change the endings to be more consistent or well executed.  Just makes them happier.

Actually it does, by removing the holokid and its associated bull****. It can be argued it introduces new inconsitencies (how did they get off the Citadel etc), but then again it would take a lot more than some remixed cutscenes to make the ending air-tight.

Ultimately MEHEM is the lowest common denominator for those who won't accept the endings in any form. It's the minimum necessary to make the story end satisfactorily for those people. I applaud it. It's not necessarily what I would've done to fix the ending but it is an impressive effort.

Also haters gonna hate. On all sides.

[Iakus]

Phatose wrote...

iakus wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Look, on a fundamental level it comes down to this: You don't get to claim it's worthy of discussion, then brush off criticisms of it with "Oh, but you don't have to install it!".

Either it's worth discussing - in which case criticism (the so called hating) is acceptable - or it's not, in which case it shouldn't be discussed at all.

Sure it's worth discussing.

Criticism is certainly one thing.  "I prefer the regular High EMS Destroy ending because..."

"it's just a rainbows and unicorns ending" really doesn't leave much room for civil discussion.

I think it actually does.  That's the thing - at it's core, the rainbows and unicorns are it's purpose.  It doesn't change the endings to be more consistent or well executed.  Just makes them happier.

Should lead directly into either a defense that it isn't intended that way - seems unlikely to me, but it's possible - or a claim that a clumsily executed happy ending is better then a clumisly executed bittersweet or sad ending.

Nobody seems all that interested in doing either though.

One could argue that it does make the ending more consistent and well executed, depending on what the person thinks of the Catalyst and its "solution"  There are certainly those who believe that no explanation to the Reapers is better than the one the Catalyst provided.  

And it's certainly no secret that it's designed to be a "happier" ending.  I mean, it's in the name of the mod, after all.  However, alling it a "rainbows and unicorns" ending gives it connotations of being some perfect, golden ending.  And that it most certainly is not.  I mean, it still ends wit ha memorial  Just for Anderson rather than Shepard.  No one's smiling.  As has been stated before, it's still bittersweet, just with a bit more sweet added.  

[Xilizhra]

And it's certainly no secret that it's designed to be a "happier" ending. I mean, it's in the name of the mod, after all. However, alling it a "rainbows and unicorns" ending gives it connotations of being some perfect, golden ending. And that it most certainly is not. I mean, it still ends wit ha memorial Just for Anderson rather than Shepard. No one's smiling. As has been stated before, it's still bittersweet, just with a bit more sweet added.

I actually think Control is happier, but, well, yeah. Ultimately, though, I don't really like it at all, in part because it gives no explanation for the Reapers, which I find a horrendous copout.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Xilizhra wrote...

And it's certainly no secret that it's designed to be a "happier" ending. I mean, it's in the name of the mod, after all. However, alling it a "rainbows and unicorns" ending gives it connotations of being some perfect, golden ending. And that it most certainly is not. I mean, it still ends wit ha memorial Just for Anderson rather than Shepard. No one's smiling. As has been stated before, it's still bittersweet, just with a bit more sweet added.

I actually think Control is happier, but, well, yeah. Ultimately, though, I don't really like it at all, in part because it gives no explanation for the Reapers, which I find a horrendous copout.

They're dead, just like in Destroy.

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

And it's certainly no secret that it's designed to be a "happier" ending. I mean, it's in the name of the mod, after all. However, alling it a "rainbows and unicorns" ending gives it connotations of being some perfect, golden ending. And that it most certainly is not. I mean, it still ends wit ha memorial Just for Anderson rather than Shepard. No one's smiling. As has been stated before, it's still bittersweet, just with a bit more sweet added.

I actually think Control is happier, but, well, yeah. Ultimately, though, I don't really like it at all, in part because it gives no explanation for the Reapers, which I find a horrendous copout.

Well like I said, the lack of an explanation can be argued to be a good thing, or at least a better thing, depending on your preferences for an explanation vs the explanation given.  For a lot of people, the Catalyst's explanation causes their brain to hurt

As for Control being happier, well, I disagree, strongly.  But we're probably looking at different criteria for "happy"

[AlanC9]

Riot86 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, there's an obvious difference there, since MEHEM actually exists.

Well, the interpretation of the ending called IT does actually exist.

Does an interpretation have enough "thingness" for whether it exists or does not exist to be a meaningful question? (Haven't written a sentence like that since I was an undergrad)

It's not like IT is an actual theory anymore, if it ever was.