656 réponses à ce sujet

[Noctis Augustus]

If we can influence the outcome of the war there should be at least three outcomes: Mage freedom, compromise and status quo. But the problem lies in the sequels, since mage freedom and compromise will change the chantry nations considerably. And I think it's not feasible to do that. I can only think of two solutions:

- The sequel(s) to DAIII will be set in Tevinter Imperium or Par Vollen or both since they are not affected by it.

- Delay the outcome until the final game set in present day Thedas... Which I think will be DAIV.

Or Bioware could give you just one outcome which I think makes the mage templar war completely meaningless and will definitely drive me away from the Dragon Age games.


Discuss.

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 14 avril 2013 - 03:49 .

[Enigmatick]

You still do realize that the Mage-Templar won't be the main plot of the game, it's about every giant problem plaguing Thedas and stopping them all, I'd be really disappointed if it all came down to MagevTemplar again it's just religious X-Men to me.

Modifié par Enigmatick, 14 avril 2013 - 03:06 .

[Noctis Augustus]

Enigmatick wrote...

You still do realize that the Mage-Templar won't be the main plot of the game, it's about every giant problem plaguing Thedas and them all, I'd be really disappointed if it all came down to MagevTemplar again it's just religious X-Men to me.

Yes, but people have the most varied opinions about it. Giving just one outcome is... insulting. I assume the main plot won't have that same problem.

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 14 avril 2013 - 03:09 .

[Enigmatick]

One outcome to any of the main conflicts is awful unless the only other outcome destroys the world. I honestly think you may visit Tevinter in DA3 but definetly not Par Vollen. Tevinter would just make sense to drop by for consultation on a Mage war, even you only visit the capital city or something.

[Noctis Augustus]

Enigmatick wrote...

One outcome to any of the main conflicts is awful unless the only other outcome destroys the world. I honestly think you may visit Tevinter in DA3 but definetly not Par Vollen. Tevinter would just make sense to drop by for consultation on a Mage war, even you only visit the capital city or something.

... Please re-read my topic post.

[ElitePinecone]

ibbikiookami wrote...
 current day Thedas

huh?

[Noctis Augustus]

ElitePinecone wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...
 current day Thedas

huh?

Well, Bioware might decide to do a DA set in the past or the future.

[Sir JK]

I think that if you're hoping for two (or more) radically different outcomes, then you'd probably best served by lowering your expactations quite a lot. You're not going to get to choose between mage utopia on one hand and Pax Andraste on the other. While getting the choice between Black and White sounds awesome, if one was hoping to see it followed up or more adventures following that point then the expectations border the unreasonable.
Whatever choices we're offered, the results of those will likely be no more than the footnotes of history so to speak. Making an impact, but not really changing things irreversibly. Consider the choice between Anora and Alistair in DAO for instance. They're both likely sterile. No matter how succesful monarchs they are, they will die with no successors. Allowing us to return to a Ferelden later in the age with one fix ruler no matter who we chose.
That's the sort of thing you could expect at the most, I believe. Things that in and of themselves probably do not lead anywhere, but historians would pick up on and discuss as "interesting" or "setting a stage for later".
They cannot tailor make a game for one choice after all, no matter how much any one fan might love that choice. Not only is it blatantly disrespectful against those who didn't, but it also risk alienating new players since they'd be forced to play previous titles to get this one.

So I advice you too keep your expectations low. Hope for interesting choices, but not much more. And if I am wrong and they actually do make world altering choices and follows up on them? Well that's just a positive suprise.

[Noctis Augustus]

Sir JK wrote...

I think that if you're hoping for two (or more) radically different outcomes, then you'd probably best served by lowering your expactations quite a lot. You're not going to get to choose between mage utopia on one hand and Pax Andraste on the other. While getting the choice between Black and White sounds awesome, if one was hoping to see it followed up or more adventures following that point then the expectations border the unreasonable.
Whatever choices we're offered, the results of those will likely be no more than the footnotes of history so to speak. Making an impact, but not really changing things irreversibly. Consider the choice between Anora and Alistair in DAO for instance. They're both likely sterile. No matter how succesful monarchs they are, they will die with no successors. Allowing us to return to a Ferelden later in the age with one fix ruler no matter who we chose.
That's the sort of thing you could expect at the most, I believe. Things that in and of themselves probably do not lead anywhere, but historians would pick up on and discuss as "interesting" or "setting a stage for later".
They cannot tailor make a game for one choice after all, no matter how much any one fan might love that choice. Not only is it blatantly disrespectful against those who didn't, but it also risk alienating new players since they'd be forced to play previous titles to get this one.

So I advice you too keep your expectations low. Hope for interesting choices, but not much more. And if I am wrong and they actually do make world altering choices and follows up on them? Well that's just a positive suprise.

They are near zero. I'll have to experience the game first but if it's not going to have those three choices I mentioned with their rightful consequences then I will most likely give up on Bioware. There are more satisfying games out there.

[Dabrikishaw]

The thing we all have to keep in mind is that this will not be the last Dragon Age game. If it were the extreme endings most people want in regard to the Mage-Templar war would happen no questions asked.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Why do you think there will be mage freedom or compromise at the end? Its not Mass Effect 3 (at least i hope so) with its colorful endings.

And why do you think the mages-templar war will be resolved in Inquisition? It could be finished in DLC, or even carry onto the future, while the outcome might simply set something like either to lock up all mages in mage prisons(Something like Arkham Asylum for mages?) or simply start Witch Hunts on them and genocied them, which are both pretty close,

[Sir JK]

ibbikiookami wrote...

They are near zero. I'll have to experience the game first but if it's not going to have those three choices I mentioned with their rightful consequences then I will most likely give up on Bioware. There are more satisfying games out there.

But what is "rightful"  (by which I assume you mean proper) consequences?

A mention in dialogue? Where they discuss the ramifications of it? Kind of like how the architect has been handled?
A unique sidequest? Where you get to solve a problem based on it? Like the quest with Nathaniel?
A unique subplot? Covering several quests, kind of like witch hunt or the DA2 DLC.
A unique main plot? That the entire game circles around the ramification of your choice?
A unique setting? That -everything- is changed based on your choice.

What exactly is it that you expect? What is proper? What if the game does not focus on that conflict at all, but rather provides us with other sets of adventures while the entire thing happens in the background? Or is postponed to a later game?

And perhaps another very important question you should ask yourself: What if the options available to you are not the ones you expect them to be?

All those questions are rather important questions to ask yourself. If your expectations are as low as you say, then great... odds are that you'll get what you want and more.
But if you have a very specific imagine in mind for what you want, especially if it has huge ramifications... then I strongly suggest looking up a pen-and-paper roleplaying game dungeonmaster/storyteller, explain to him what you want and have him craft you a campaign specifically for you.

[Noctis Augustus]

Are you people reading my post? I said there should be at least three outcomes to cover peoples views on the war. I never said there would be any, Thedas could even be destroyed before the conflict is resolved.

[Noctis Augustus]

Sir JK wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

They are near zero. I'll have to experience the game first but if it's not going to have those three choices I mentioned with their rightful consequences then I will most likely give up on Bioware. There are more satisfying games out there.

But what is "rightful"  (by which I assume you mean proper) consequences?

A mention in dialogue? Where they discuss the ramifications of it? Kind of like how the architect has been handled?
A unique sidequest? Where you get to solve a problem based on it? Like the quest with Nathaniel?
A unique subplot? Covering several quests, kind of like witch hunt or the DA2 DLC.
A unique main plot? That the entire game circles around the ramification of your choice?
A unique setting? That -everything- is changed based on your choice.

What exactly is it that you expect? What is proper? What if the game does not focus on that conflict at all, but rather provides us with other sets of adventures while the entire thing happens in the background? Or is postponed to a later game?

And perhaps another very important question you should ask yourself: What if the options available to you are not the ones you expect them to be?

All those questions are rather important questions to ask yourself. If your expectations are as low as you say, then great... odds are that you'll get what you want and more.
But if you have a very specific imagine in mind for what you want, especially if it has huge ramifications... then I strongly suggest looking up a pen-and-paper roleplaying game dungeonmaster/storyteller, explain to him what you want and have him craft you a campaign specifically for you.

Why do I even bother? I'm stopping discussing ideas.

[azarhal]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

Why do you think there will be mage freedom or compromise at the end? Its not Mass Effect 3 (at least i hope so) with its colorful endings.

And why do you think the mages-templar war will be resolved in Inquisition? It could be finished in DLC, or even carry onto the future, while the outcome might simply set something like either to lock up all mages in mage prisons(Something like Arkham Asylum for mages?) or simply start Witch Hunts on them and genocied them, which are both pretty close,

The mage prison is called Aeonar and it have a very thin Veil. Its location is hidden, but it's somewhere in Ferelden. The Templars believe that if a Mage attract demons in a crazy prison full of them that is because he's guilty. That is why they lock up mages in Aeonar, although they also lockup other people in there (see Lily in the Magi origin). Looking at the Templars we saw in both games, they are probably not the ones in charge of Aeonar. Too incompetents.

Also, the OP is making the assumption that all the Andrastian countries are under Chantry rule and persecute mages. Kirkwal was an exception (the Templars were in charge) not the rule. Nevarra is much more open toward mages (as per World of Thedas) than the other Andrastian countries.

[LobselVith8]

ibbikiookami wrote...

Yes, but people have the most varied opinions about it. Giving just one outcome is... insulting. I assume the main plot won't have that same problem. 

It would be nice if there were multiple endings to Inquisition, and if there were significant choices that mattered. I would like to help the rebel mages who seek to maintain their autonomy (as well as the elves who are rebelling against Orlaus), and for the actions of my protagonist to have ramifications. I'm looking to play as a pro-active character who can effect the world around him. I'm not the least bit interested in having choices without meaning, or to be railroaded down a linear path no matter what.

[I Like Cats And]

Personally I'm not the biggest fan of the whole War/Revolt plot focus, it should have been wrapped up in DA2 instead of that game being more like a transition. It's not very deep and I find it kind of boring. I'd much rather have some cool epic journey like DA:O. However if there are cool epic Helm's Deep sort of things going on I might be able to be won over.

[Sir JK]

LobselVith8 wrote...

...multiple endings to Inquisition, and if there were significant choices that mattered.
...and for the actions of my protagonist to have ramifications.
... can effect the world around him.

I'm curious. What does this mean?

Would you mind painting me a picture what one of these endings and ramifications looks like? And then... what it looks like if I took another of these choices?

[LobselVith8]

Sir JK wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

...multiple endings to Inquisition, and if there were significant choices that mattered.
...and for the actions of my protagonist to have ramifications.
... can effect the world around him.

I'm curious. What does this mean?

Would you mind painting me a picture what one of these endings and ramifications looks like? And then... what it looks like if I took another of these choices? 

Well, it means I would like to see the world react to my decisions. Like Hawke killing Kelder. Shouldn't the elves have reacted to a human killing a serial killer of children? In a society where elven women can be abducted in broad daylight, I think that should have mattered. Or being a blood mage. Would the templars concentrate their efforts to hunt him down for hang blood magic? Might people change their opinions if they saw a blood mage who was heroic? Would certain story avenues be closed because the protagonist was a known blood mage, opening up alternative storylines where being a blood mage genuinely matters?

I know it's unlikely that Inquisition will have different outcomes, but having one ending (or 'endings' that are pretty much the same via Dragon Age II) but it would be nice to see how my protagonist's actions impacted the societies he encountered. Perhaps how being a free mage might have influenced the views of others who encountered him during his exploits across Thedas.

[Sir JK]

My friend, as I've alluded in my previous posts in this thread I don't think that multiple endings with a limited scope is too much to hope for. Depending on one's definition of impact, one could get what one desires in that regard.
Kind of like how DA2 reacts to Harrowmont or the Werewolf situation (or even whether Alistair is king, warden or drunk), perhaps even a little more than that. Affecting codices and dialogue. Small things, sure, but reactivity nonetheless.

That sort of consequence I think one can hope for and have a fair chance at not being disappointed.

[10K]

I see what you're saying. That if we are given more then one choice to help shape the outcome of the mage/templar war in DA:I that it may be hard for the next installments to show the consequences of the player's choice. Because it would be a big change that would affect Thedas greatly. Say if you choose to pick a compromise option in DA:I then the next installment would have to show this, and same goes for any other options that may present themselves.

What I think is the Mage/Templar war will not be resolved in DA:I. I think (I hope) BW will wait until the last DA title to patch this and any other major conflicts up, just so they don't run into the problem ME had with all it's branching choices.

Modifié par mosesarose, 15 avril 2013 - 06:05 .

[Althix]

well bioware sure have experience in "choices that matters". like collectors base or mentioned before harrowmont/werewolf situations.

given that the one can have a lot of thinking about what to do in DAO, overall impact of his decisions on later games is close to zero.

illusion of power.

OP, where is my total mages genocide option?

Modifié par secretsandlies, 15 avril 2013 - 06:47 .

[Neoleviathan]

Its possible the conflict wont be resolved in the new game, but will blossom into something far larger and more threatening. That way they don't have to worry about significant results right away, & instead of (conflict to resolution to new conflict to resolution) they get (conflict to nightmarish conflict to resolution). The pacing will probably feel better if the mage-templar war isn't a one game problem.

Modifié par Neoleviathan, 15 avril 2013 - 07:57 .

[Hazegurl]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

...multiple endings to Inquisition, and if there were significant choices that mattered.
...and for the actions of my protagonist to have ramifications.
... can effect the world around him.

I'm curious. What does this mean?

Would you mind painting me a picture what one of these endings and ramifications looks like? And then... what it looks like if I took another of these choices? 

Well, it means I would like to see the world react to my decisions. Like Hawke killing Kelder. Shouldn't the elves have reacted to a human killing a serial killer of children? In a society where elven women can be abducted in broad daylight, I think that should have mattered. Or being a blood mage. Would the templars concentrate their efforts to hunt him down for hang blood magic? Might people change their opinions if they saw a blood mage who was heroic? Would certain story avenues be closed because the protagonist was a known blood mage, opening up alternative storylines where being a blood mage genuinely matters?

I know it's unlikely that Inquisition will have different outcomes, but having one ending (or 'endings' that are pretty much the same via Dragon Age II) but it would be nice to see how my protagonist's actions impacted the societies he encountered. Perhaps how being a free mage might have influenced the views of others who encountered him during his exploits across Thedas.

Pretty much this. The game felt sort of lifeless as there is never any change whatsoever based on your actions. I would love it if certain storylines are closed based on  the choiced you've made, or the get some NPC reactions to what was happening in the city.  I hope they at least do that.

[Daerog]

No to all three outcomes that were listed. What will happen is the different nations will take control of their own mage population how they see fit. There may be a Circle of Magi still around, but it will no longer have total control over all the mages in Thedas. Some nations may go with the Circle, others with a hardlined Templar approach, others with total freedom, and some may just create their own circle system.

The PC may help influence how some groups get set up or how Orlais went with it, and then have the next two DA games be set in the Anderfels and Tevinter, with the Qunari invading in the latter which may set up a reset in politics and then the devs can have whatever situation they want in Orlais or Fereldan.