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[Boycott Bioware]

Don't forget what Kolgrim said if you agree to defile the urn. He said we can take a pinch of the ashes and it is "known to have healing property". Now there is one important question, beside Arl Eamon, who ever use the ash that make it "known to have healing property"?

Secondly, if we defile the ash, the Guardian is weakened, the Ash Wraith too, these "beings" are related to the ash, it is like their source of life/power. In DA2, the "Profane" live by eating lyrium....we can relate that. Lyrium is a food source of magical beings. The Guardian is/was not human, it is a lie. The Warden meet with 'spirits" of people in the past in the Gauntlet, and also meet anyone who related to him/her in origin, so it is not shocking that they are demons who feed on Lyrium in the temple, and the Ash is not really Andraste ash

[Asdrubael Vect]

do you forget about Life Stones that are very close to Lyrium

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 24 avril 2013 - 04:04 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Qistina i think that if in this not a real Andraste ash and just special healing stuff for fanatics

so the only one who can know where real Andraste ash/body is only Archont Hessarian(he see Andraste and her "Maker" in Fade) and Magisters who see Andraste in Fade and believed in Maker after andraste execution  before Orlais and before Orlais Chantry(Tevinter belived in Maker more than 160 years before)

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 24 avril 2013 - 04:21 .

[robertthebard]

Herr Uhl wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Something that seems to be forgotten here is that enchantments are made from lyrium. You can make immortal automatons with lyrium. Explosives are made from lyrium. The assertion that there is no way lyrium can be worked in a way as to be beneficial to your health seems tentative at best.

Really?  So what healing properties has lyrium ever shown?  It's simple, point me to some healing affects of lyrium, and I'll re-evaluate my position.  In the interim, nothing in the lore indicates that it can make something else heal by exposure to it's raw form.  In regard to the effects on the temple, what powers the puzzle?  What creates all the spirits we interact with?  Lyrium is useful, I get it, but I have yet to see prolonged exposure to it heal anything.

Here you go.

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Lyrium_Vein

The effects of lyrium are wildly inconsistent.

http://dragonage.wik...x_entry:_Lyrium

You touch Lyrium and it literally replenishes your health. What else do you want? I'm aware of what the codex states, and my basic outlook on Lyrium is that it can be written into being whatever the writers want.

Yep, it's a plot device so that you cannot just die in the Fade.  Poorly handled, considering the rest of the lore.  I'll note, however, that unless the ashes are touching one of those veins, it's not the same.  Standing beside one will not, for example, keep your health and mana full.

[EmperorSahlertz]

PROCESSED Lyrium can have a wide array of effects. Raw Lyrium, lorewise that is, are always detrimental to your health, and fatal in the case of mages.

The Lyrium Veins in the Fade and Deep Roads of DA:O are obviously just there for game mechanics, and should not be considered lore. For instance, even a mage can replenish his health and mana with it. Raw Lyrium is downright fatal to mages, so that is obviously inconsistant with lore.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Hawke mage touch PURE RED LYRIUM without problem, and our Warden mage touch Lyrium for many times

[EmperorSahlertz]

In the case of Hawke it was processed red lyrium, since as you can see, it has been worked into a sculpture, sure the sculpture might be made of pure Lyrium, but it is still not raw Lyrium. And as i pointed out, the Lyrium Veins in the deep roads are obviously there only for game mechanics, and they contradict established lore.

[Boycott Bioware]

Another important question, why the one who made the red lyrium idol don't going crazy like Meredith? If it is too dangerous, there will be no red lyrium idol in the first place, because people will become crazy being exposed by red lyrium.

Second question, Bartrand going crazy because of the piece of the red lyrium, Varric almost getting crazy too, but what happen to the one who made the red lyrium idol into a sword? We don't hear any dwarves going crazy......

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

Another important question, why the one who made the red lyrium idol don't going crazy like Meredith? If it is too dangerous, there will be no red lyrium idol in the first place, because people will become crazy being exposed by red lyrium.

There are several available answers to this question.  Most obviously, It was created by someone who either was immune to the idol's effects, or protected from them in some way.  Alternatively, it could be that red lyrim on its own doesn't drive anyone mad, but that something was done to this idol to give it its crazy-making power.  Yet another alternative:  there is no reason to think that whoever made the idol DIDN'T go quite mad; they may well have gone insane after creating the idol for all that we know.

Qistina wrote...
Second question, Bartrand going crazy because of the piece of the red
lyrium, Varric almost getting crazy too, but what happen to the one who
made the red lyrium idol into a sword? We don't hear any dwarves going
crazy......

Is there any reason to think that Meredith didn't make the idol into a sword herself? 

Modifié par Silfren, 25 avril 2013 - 01:52 .

[Boycott Bioware]

I think the whole red lyrium thing is Varric bull****ting Cassandra

Varric hate his brother, so he demonized his brother in his story. We don't know what happen to hi brother if we don't kill him isn't it? Did Varric really manage to cure his brother? We never know....did his brother can be cured? We never know....because it is a lie

The same with Meredith, Varric himself said he owe Hawke much, so create the story about Meredith going crazy because of using the red lyrium sword of craziness...we don't know if it is really the truth because if it really true, how come Cassandra don't know about it? It is a major event with a lot of witnesses among the Templars....Cullen was there, other hawke companions was there....none tell about the red lyrium sword of craziness?

It is illogical for the whole witness never mention about it.

[Enigmatick]

^ Don't tell me you actually believe what you just typed, if Varric wanted to demonize his brother why wouldn't he just have his brother be an evil bastard, why plot device him into it?

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

I think the whole red lyrium thing is Varric bull****ting Cassandra

Varric hate his brother, so he demonized his brother in his story. We don't know what happen to hi brother if we don't kill him isn't it? Did Varric really manage to cure his brother? We never know....did his brother can be cured? We never know....because it is a lie

The same with Meredith, Varric himself said he owe Hawke much, so create the story about Meredith going crazy because of using the red lyrium sword of craziness...we don't know if it is really the truth because if it really true, how come Cassandra don't know about it? It is a major event with a lot of witnesses among the Templars....Cullen was there, other hawke companions was there....none tell about the red lyrium sword of craziness?

It is illogical for the whole witness never mention about it.

What are you even talking about? Cassandra DID know about the sword.  She makes that clear in one of the interludes between Acts.

Modifié par Silfren, 25 avril 2013 - 02:04 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Varric is a story teller and varric love to add stuff...he even tell that in his own story

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

Varric is a story teller and varric love to add stuff...he even tell that in his own story

This is true, the Unreliable Narrator is one of the devices used in the whole story, but that doesn't explain anything about what you just typed.  Cassandra DID know about the lyrium idol, so why are you claiming she didn't?  And I wouldn't say that Varric hated his brother at all.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qistina wrote...

Another important question, why the one who made the red lyrium idol don't going crazy like Meredith? If it is too dangerous, there will be no red lyrium idol in the first place, because people will become crazy being exposed by red lyrium.

Second question, Bartrand going crazy because of the piece of the red lyrium, Varric almost getting crazy too, but what happen to the one who made the red lyrium idol into a sword? We don't hear any dwarves going crazy......

The person who created the idol, could easily have been driven by madness, to create the idol in the first place. Madness does not neccesarily prevent the mad from creating stuff like that.

[Boycott Bioware]

Silfren wrote...

This is true, the Unreliable Narrator is one of the devices used in the whole story, but that doesn't explain anything about what you just typed. Cassandra DID know about the lyrium idol, so why are you claiming she didn't? And I wouldn't say that Varric hated his brother at all.

The first Varric lie is the involvement of Flemeth, Cassandra ridicule Varric about Flemeth get into the story, she said "So you are saying a dragon swoop down..." and "...but if you tell me they all going to Kirkwall on a dragon..."

When varric want to tell about what happen to Bartrand, he totally creating a story about Bartrand kneeing to him and plead, then praise him to be the most handsome and wise and so on...that show how he hate Bartrand so much, because of jealousy perhaps?

When Varric tell about how hawke handle the Arishok, Cassandra said "...that is not what i hear...", we can assume all of it are lies, exaggerated and unreliable

I don't remember Cassandra ever mention about the red lyrium sword of craziness, maybe i wrong, long time not playing DA2 ;p

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

Silfren wrote...

This is true, the Unreliable Narrator is one of the devices used in the whole story, but that doesn't explain anything about what you just typed. Cassandra DID know about the lyrium idol, so why are you claiming she didn't? And I wouldn't say that Varric hated his brother at all.

The first Varric lie is the involvement of Flemeth, Cassandra ridicule Varric about Flemeth get into the story, she said "So you are saying a dragon swoop down..." and "...but if you tell me they all going to Kirkwall on a dragon..."

When varric want to tell about what happen to Bartrand, he totally creating a story about Bartrand kneeing to him and plead, then praise him to be the most handsome and wise and so on...that show how he hate Bartrand so much, because of jealousy perhaps?

When Varric tell about how hawke handle the Arishok, Cassandra said "...that is not what i hear...", we can assume all of it are lies, exaggerated and unreliable

I don't remember Cassandra ever mention about the red lyrium sword of craziness, maybe i wrong, long time not playing DA2 ;p

You ARE wrong.  Cassandra does know about the lyrium idol.

[Boycott Bioware]

Silfren wrote...
You ARE wrong. Cassandra does know about the lyrium idol.

As far as i remember...she know Hawke found something in the deep road, but she don't know what it is and don't know about the sword

[Enigmatick]

Please tell me this is just some elaborate ruse, please tell me there aren't people out there that actually believe that the entire story of a game is a lie and that the protagonist was actually crazy and evil just because they didn't like said protagonist. Please tell me people can not be THIS dense, someone, anyone please.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The great thing about having an unreliable narrator is that we can happily discard or amend literally any part of the story to suit our preferences.

[Enigmatick]

^ To the point where the story literally makes no sense as seen above.

[dragonflight288]

Cassandra says "The Champion MUST'VE known what was down there!" She says that in Act 1 before Varic talks about going into the deep roads.

She knew about the lyrium idol sword. She just initially believed that Hawke deliberately went down there to get the idol to sabotage the Chantry, and came to Kirkwall to spread subversion against it. She never considered that Hawke was simply a hapless fool going from instance to another, simply trying to get by.

[Asdrubael Vect]

I think that for mage is dangerous(but i not really thinking that it's сan kill mage just with touch) to touch Raw Lyrium only if he's barehanded and inexperienced in magic....it is enough to protect mage with the most common leather gloves,

maybe this killing Raw Lyrium stuff it's just Chantry propaganda for Circle young aprentices to not stealing Lyrium and not try to use him and to be more powerful than templars

we know that formari mages use raw Lyrium for forging, and Tevinters use raw Lyrium for meny things(remember Lyrium Well in Amgarrak teig)....mages can mutaded and be more powerfull if they use a lot of Lyrium

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 04:54 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Dark Korsar wrote...
we know that formari mages use raw Lyrium for forging, and Tevinters use raw Lyrium for meny things(remember Lyrium Well in Amgarrak teig)....mages can mutaded and be more powerfull if they use a lot of Lyrium

Yes, Denarius use Lyrium making tattoo on Fenris whole body and Fenris is safe, he only lost his memory in which doubful he really lost his memory

dragonflight288 wrote...
Cassandra says "The Champion MUST'VE known what was down there!" She says that in Act 1 before Varic talks about going into the deep roads.

Doesn't mean she KNOW what Hawke found, if she know, Varric doesn't need to justify Meredith craziness is because of the sword

And what is the point varric telling about what Hawke found if Cassandra already know? What is the point telling about Stone Wraith and the Profane...is it about the idol or how Hawke gain wealth?

Varric says "No, if she know the story turn out differently" something like that

Modifié par Qistina, 25 avril 2013 - 05:35 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Qistina as i know Danarius specially erased the memory of Fenris(for full effectiveness as a personal soldier/bodyguard) and he makes this again if you send him back

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 06:55 .