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[Boycott Bioware]

Dark Korsar qrote...
Qistina as i know Danarius specially erased the memory of Fenris and he makes this again if you send him back

Nope, Fenris lie about the memory lost...when we meet Denarius, it is obvious that Fenris lie....Fenris react to everything Denarius and his sister say

A guy who lost memory will not react when someone say "you used to be a drag queen"

Modifié par Qistina, 25 avril 2013 - 07:00 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

and who know's about  Fenris  memory, but we see that Fenris is very hypocrite about magic and mages

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 07:18 .

[Boycott Bioware]

yes, he is actually jealous of his sister becoming apprentice of Denarius...so he create a story about he have lost his memory and all...it is all a LIE

he run away from his master is because of that, he thought he is special, he was having an affair with Denarius but then his sister who got the attention.

Modifié par Qistina, 25 avril 2013 - 07:40 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qistina wrote...

Dark Korsar qrote...
Qistina as i know Danarius specially erased the memory of Fenris and he makes this again if you send him back

Nope, Fenris lie about the memory lost...when we meet Denarius, it is obvious that Fenris lie....Fenris react to everything Denarius and his sister say

A guy who lost memory will not react when someone say "you used to be a drag queen"

Uhm what?.... You are aware that all Fenris claims he couldn't remember was from the time before he got his Lyrium tatoos, right? Nothing indicates that what he says is untrue.

[Boycott Bioware]

Everything is a lie, don't believe a thing of what he say. He want to blame magic and mages as an excuse of what he doing, he just jealous of his sister who got Denarius attention. Leto aka Fenris is not a mage, but his sister is, that is why.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qistina wrote...

Everything is a lie, don't believe a thing of what he say. He want to blame magic and mages as an excuse of what he doing, he just jealous of his sister who got Denarius attention. Leto aka Fenris is not a mage, but his sister is, that is why.

Fenris forgot all about his previous life when he recieved the tatoos from Danarius. WHile it is true that he MIGHT have been jalous of his sister (it is Anders who claims that, and Anders hates Fenris), Fenris had no memory of this. Fenris believes that the reason he entered the competition for the tatoos, were to save his family from slavery. But, as I am now tired of pointing out, he had no memory of his lfie prior to the tatoos.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Fenris have some memories of his life and he said that he was never learned to read

According to David Gaider, Danarius' relationship with Fenris was "intimate"

his sister was a mage so she can't be a slave in any cases...so maybe she free her family and later become Danarius aprentice

and i not know why Fenris wanted to free his family from slavery if they would become Liberati without their own money and house

damn Fenris at's like a Carver

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 12:21 .

[Silfren]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Fenris have some memories of his life and he said that he was never learned to read

According to David Gaider, Danarius' relationship with Fenris was "intimate"

his sister was a mage so she can't be a slave in any cases...so maybe she free her family and later become Danarius aprentice

and i not know why Fenris wanted to free his family from slavery if they would become Liberati without their own money and house

damn Fenris at's like a Carver

I don't know where you're getting your info, but you're wrong on several points.  You CAN be a mage and a slave in Tevinter, and Fenris was a slave along with his mother and sister.  He entered the competition to win his sister the chance to become an apprentice.

Fenris tells us he lost his memory of his life up to the point he received his lyrium tattoos.  I've always taken that to mean it was a result of the extreme physical trauma his body was put through, not a side effect of the lyrium.  But given he is clear about when he lost his memories, and does talk about details of his life from what he does remember, this notion that he's lying about when and what he doesn't remember is completely off-base.

Modifié par Silfren, 25 avril 2013 - 01:51 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Silfren

"You CAN be a mage and a slave in Tevinter" who said that? and how old was his sister, maybe she was 4 or 5 years old and became a mage at 6...Fenris remeber her when they were kids

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 01:48 .

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Cassandra says "The Champion MUST'VE known what was down there!" She says that in Act 1 before Varic talks about going into the deep roads.

Doesn't mean she KNOW what Hawke found, if she know, Varric doesn't need to justify Meredith craziness is because of the sword.

Actually, it does.  Pay attention to what Cassandra says, and how she says it.  Cassandra clearly did know about the lyrium idol--as was pointed out to you, she believed Hawke deliberately went to acquire it in order to use it against the Chantry. 

Varric went on at length with his story in order to give Cassandra the full tale so that she would understand not just that Hawke found the idol, but how and why, and what happened afterward.  Cassandra thinks that Hawke went after the idol with malicious intent.  The point of Varric telling her the actual story is to make her understand that Hawke and co. didn't know anything about the idol at all, and also to explain how it came into Meredith's possession, since that, again, was not something Hawke set out to do.

I said before that the Unreliable Narrator theme is one that does allow us to call certain things into question, and I do think we need to filter some of the things--some of them--through the UN lens...but the idea that the entire story is a load of crap is ridiculous.

[Silfren]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Silfren

"You CAN be a mage and a slave in Tevinter" who said that? and how old was his sister, maybe she was 4 or 5 years old and became a mage at 6

*shrug*  I'm stating the facts as provided to us by the game.  If you don't like it, argue with the Devs.  

It has never been said that in Tevinter, being a mage excludes a person from the slave class.  Fenris himself points this out, saying that the Magisters have no problems with enslaving their own, which basically means it isn't necessarily mage vs. non-mage there, but the strong vs. the weak, which just as easily pits the strongest mages against the weakest as it does the mages against the non-mages.

Not sure at all what the age of Fenris sister has to do with anything.  I don't think she was all that much younger than Fenris, though.  Hell, for that matter she might've been a little older.  I really don't think they're more than a couple years apart at the most.

Modifié par Silfren, 25 avril 2013 - 01:49 .

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...
A guy who lost memory will not react when someone say "you used to be a drag queen"

Yeah, you really just don't know what you're talking about here.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Fenris wanted to get his powers and he use his influense to free(and actually no one said that they was a slaves and Fenris not said about that..and do not say that all non-mages are slaves in Tevinter) his mother and sister from serving to Magister Danarius, but he was not fight for this he fights an kills others for powers what he can get from Danarius

he was selfish and jealous for having more power & glory like Carver, Fenris family not really wanted to be free from being servants because they have nothing without Danarius...and Fenris was never ask his family about this "freedom"...his mother soon die's and Varania start serving at the court of Magister Ariman before Danarius(who has intimate relationship with Fenris) made ​​her his personal apprentice

and after, he was not care to killing his own sister and last family member, and we know that no one would kill Fenris and he knows this too as what his sister can't not doing what she did

and about Tevinters mages "enslaving they own", this is hypocrite bull**** and we perfectly know about this and what a slavery in Tevinter is, as a Imperium Circle

the only one "slave" in Fenris family was Fenris himself and he wanted to be what he is...he be his personal bodyguard and after batle with Qunari on Seheron he lives with Fog warriors and after killing them after Danaius wanted to bring him back..and after some time excape to not have brainwash...and he was in Kirckwall for 6 years with Hawke after Danarius comes with Varania

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 03:06 .

[Garden of Heaven]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Fenris wanted to get his powers and he use his influense to free(and actually no one said that they was a slaves and Fenris not said about that..and do not say that all non-mages are slaves in Tevinter) his mother and sister from serving to Magister Danarius, but he was not fight for this he fights an kills others for powers what he can get from Danarius

he was selfish and jealous for having more power & glory like Carver, Fenris family not really wanted to be free from being servants because they have nothing without Danarius...and Fenris was never ask his family about this "freedom"...his mother soon die's and Varania start serving at the court of Magister Ariman before Danarius(who has intimate relationship with Fenris) made ​​her his personal apprentice

and after, he was not care to killing his own sister and last family member, and we know that no one would kill Fenris and he knows this too as what his sister can't not doing what she did

and about Tevinters mages "enslaving they own", this is hypocrite bull**** and we perfectly know about this and what a slavery in Tevinter is, as a Imperium Circle

the only one "slave" in Fenris family was Fenris himself and he wanted to be what he is

I'm under the impression that Fenris' family were slaves, else why would he bragain for their freedom?
Fenris fought in some sort of competition where the victor would have Lyrium branded into their flesh, and when he won he asked for his family to be freed.
Fenris also only tried to kill Varania because she betrayed him to a man that abused him both physically by making him his pet lover, and mentally by erasing his memories time and again.
He was also easily talked out of killing her.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Fenris family are serve on the court of Magister, and young selfish servant and warrior Leto(Tevinter & Elf version of Lothering Carver) after becoming a personal bodyguard(a very high rank in many countries what grants him some influence as noble) of Danarius free his Family from serving Magister to make they life better(he was a personal bodyguard of Magister and can provide his family a rich life) but he was not understanding that he makes their life only worse.

becoming a personal bodyguard and gaining powers what he wanted have their price and he loose some of his memories even with his name..so he  did not help his family what forget and never see them before...and he was a rich Danarius bodyguard and have intimate relations with him

after he with Danarius battle against Qunari and Danarius was badly injured and taken to the ship(Fenris for retreating Tevinters was not realy important), and he lives with Fog Warriors and who was slayed by him after Danarius comes for him...and after some time(maybe when Danarius want to errase Fenris memory of Seheron and Fog Warriors and started ritual) he escape and after lived 6 years with Hawke

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 04:01 .

[Senya]

^^

What? Serioulsy? No. Just no.

Fenris and his family weren't servants with the rights of servants. They were slaves with all the connotations that come with it. Even if they were house slaves, the fact remained that they were still owned and subject to the whims of the Magisters who owned them. Look at our own history and you will see many African American house slaves desired freedom as well as the field slaves.

Hadrianna mocked him, abused him, and denied him his meals just because she could Danarius sexually molested him. Fenris witnessed Danarius sacrificing his slaves to use as fodder for blood magic.

No, I understand people who say not all Magisters are like that or that Tevinter has a few good things about it. But painting over slavery and abuse is just asinine. I seriously hope Tevinter can be changed, but I will not pretend it's anything else than what it really is.

And how would Fenris provied his family with anything once his memories were erased in the ritual and Danarius, going off the information provided in the game, sent his family away considering Fenris knew nothing of his family until told.

[Asdrubael Vect]

NO ONE NEVER SAID THAT HIS FAMILY WERE SLAVES, and Fenris know nothing about his family after Danarius experiment(no one know what Fenris can loose his memory)

[LobselVith8]

Dark Korsar wrote...

NO ONE NEVER SAID THAT HIS FAMILY WERE SLAVES, and Fenris know nothing about his family after Danarius experiment(no one know what Fenris can loose his memory)

Fenris fought for the freedom of his mother and sister. His sister tells him that freedom was no boon. Mages and non-mages can be enslaved in Tevinter.

[Boycott Bioware]

almostinsane99 wrote...
Hadrianna mocked him, abused him, and denied him his meals just because she could Danarius sexually molested him. Fenris witnessed Danarius sacrificing his slaves to use as fodder for blood magic.

All Fenris say about Hadriana is one of his lies, no one can confirm it. he just want to justify he killing Hadriana to Hawke after he promise to spare Hadriana.

He do that twice, the first is the mage who ambush Hawke and Co...he shut off everyone who could tell the truth to Hawke and Co...

We must accept that Hawke is surrounded by liars...his/her friends are liars...

Modifié par Qistina, 25 avril 2013 - 04:24 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

LobselVith8

ok so be it,  PERHAPS you right and Tevinter as what Fenris and false Orlais Chantry said.

for now i wait when i have a full information about mages, social classes and slavery in Tevinter from DA: WOT if it have more information about this themes

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 04:27 .

[Boycott Bioware]

If Fenris really lost his memory, then how he can tell who is Hadriana in detail right after the ambush?

Then he want to hear about his sister when Hadriana want to told about her to him?

Fenris can tell everything in detail about Tevinter Imperium, Andraste, Tevinter Circle, ect ect ect about Magisters to Hawke at the Gallow...in one of dialogue option Hawke may ask "how do you know?", Fenris say he HEAR Denarius talk about those things....

HE LIE

[Asdrubael Vect]

“So pervasive is magic’s influence in the Imperium that non-mages are a sizable underclass. The non-mages who are not slaves can own land, but cannot hold senior political positions. The non-mage Soporati are said to dream of having a mage child and the prestige that comes with one. Many non-mages in the Imperium live in fear of mages and the power they wield.” 

- The World of Thedas p. 103, Magic’s Place in Different Cultures

so **** off with you hypocrite  jealous liar Fenris

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 04:56 .

[Boycott Bioware]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Fenris forgot all about his previous life when he recieved the tatoos from Danarius. WHile it is true that he MIGHT have been jalous of his sister (it is Anders who claims that, and Anders hates Fenris), Fenris had no memory of this. Fenris believes that the reason he entered the competition for the tatoos, were to save his family from slavery. But, as I am now tired of pointing out, he had no memory of his lfie prior to the tatoos.

the Tevinter bounty hunters, Hadriana, Denarius and his sister...all treat Leto aka Fenris as normally, like Leto aka Fenris DIDN'T lost his memory

His sister even said "...do you ashamed to hear that name?" something like this as i remember

Nne of those Tevinters treat him like he have lost his memory...

Modifié par Qistina, 25 avril 2013 - 04:47 .

[The Hierophant]

Fenris didn't know he had a sister until Act 2. His dislike for mages being interpreted as jealousy of his sister's ability makes no sense as he had no memory of his life before Danarius' lyrium operation. It seems like Anders tried to purposely misinterpret the revelation to besmirch Fenris's character.

Korsar are you saying the hinted relations between Fenris, and Dananarius are consensual?

Also can anyone who's knowledgeable about Fenris' backstory verify Dark Korsar's claims as they seem off, as i remembered that his sister stated that he competed for the markings to free their mother, and her from slavery?

[The Hierophant]

Dark Korsar wrote...
“So pervasive is magic’s influence in the Imperium that non-mages are a sizable underclass. The non-mages who are not slaves can own land, but cannot hold senior political positions. The non-mage Soporati are said to dream of having a mage child and the prestige that comes with one. Many non-mages in the Imperium live in fear of mages and the power they wield.”
- The World of Thedas p. 103, Magic’s Place in Different Cultures
so **** off with you hypocrite  jealous Fenris

Reread what you posted as owning land is the only privilege free non mages are stated to have while having a mage baby allows them prestige. Heck the above passage gives weight to Fenris' criticisms of Tevinter. Also, lulz @ the last line.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 25 avril 2013 - 05:07 .