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[Sylvius the Mad]

Enigmatick wrote...

^ To the point where the story literally makes no sense as seen above.

As long as the player enjoys it, does it matter if the story makes sense (or, more specifically, makes sense to you)?

[Fast Jimmy]

^

I find it incredibly difficult to enjoy a story I feel doesn't make sense.

[Asdrubael Vect]

The Hierophant wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...
“So pervasive is magic’s influence in the Imperium that non-mages are a sizable underclass. The non-mages who are not slaves can own land, but cannot hold senior political positions. The non-mage Soporati are said to dream of having a mage child and the prestige that comes with one. Many non-mages in the Imperium live in fear of mages and the power they wield.”
- The World of Thedas p. 103, Magic’s Place in Different Cultures
so **** off with you hypocrite  jealous Fenris

Reread what you posted as owning land is the only privilege free non mages are stated to have while having a mage baby allows them prestige. Heck the above passage gives weight to Fenris' criticisms of Tevinter. Also, lulz @ the last line.

There are 4 classes in Tevinter : 2 mages/2.5 non mages. 
1 :The Altus :descendats of the frist dreamers who used to talk with the Old gods..
2:The Laetans :mages with non glorious heritage , a lot of them are mages born in non mages family. 
3:Soporati (non mage):they can own land , join the military etc but they can't rule...
4: Slaves.Those who are freed are called Liberati they have limited rights.

In Tevinter , being part of a Circle is a great privilege.

In tevinter , some temples dedicated to old gods were turned in the first Circle of magi.

Dwarves and Tevinter have a long history of friendship and there's a whole community of dwarves living there.They have some political power in the country via the Lyrium trade.

In Minrathous , Neromenian and Qarinus(Varania with her Magister Ahriman lives here), the dwarven embassies are underground and the Dwarves ain't casteless like the rest of surface dwarves.

Tevinter is sort of the firt state to adopt Andraste Teaching. After Archon Hessarion heard the Maker. A lot of altus magisters and old god priests were killed during this period called :Transfiguration. A lot who converted said they saw Andraste spirit in the fade...

For a time a lot of non mage had power in Tevinter , they were part of the imperial chantry etc...

The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter, it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles.

Slavery

1)Slavery is currently practiced by the Tevinter Imperium. It is one of the few places where elves are still literal slaves, as opposed to alienage elves who are not technically slaves, but are still in the bottom of the society and it is common practice for alienage elves to sell themselves or each other into slavery to provide for their families.

Because of this, the condition of alienage elves in the Imperium is slightly better, but for the slaves it is significantly worse, compared to the elves of other countries. Slave hunters may capture elves in other nations (where, for the most part, slavery is illegal) and smuggle them into the Imperium, but those who are caught doing so are executed and made an example of. Those slaves who are sold on the black market are considered "non-contract" slaves, and have the worst living conditions of all.

2)Although slavery is illegal in Orlais, it is still not unheard of for wealthy nobles to own elven slaves.

3)The Сrowns of Antiva also prey on enslaved humans and elves, recruiting them to become elite assassins through rigorous tests of survival and duplicity. The Crows have been known to purchase recruits, arguably enslaving those they buy, or at least indenturing them into a life of servitude

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 25 avril 2013 - 06:58 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

I find it incredibly difficult to enjoy a story I feel doesn't make sense.

But with the unreliable narrator, you can make it make sense.  To you.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

I find it incredibly difficult to enjoy a story I feel doesn't make sense.

But with the unreliable narrator, you can make it make sense.  To you.

I don't like to have to make things make sense. I really prefer my sense pre-made.

[Silfren]

At this point I think both Qistina and Dark Korsar need to re-play the game. Most of your ideas are directly refuted in the game to the extent that I'm questioning whether you ever even played it at all.

Modifié par Silfren, 25 avril 2013 - 07:17 .

[TEWR]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

I find it incredibly difficult to enjoy a story I feel doesn't make sense.

But with the unreliable narrator, you can make it make sense.  To you.

Mind****.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Silfren wrote...

At this point I think both Qistina and Dark Korsar need to re-play the game. Most of your ideas are directly refuted in the game to the extent that I'm questioning whether you ever even played it at all.

1)i think i would never play human Hawke/Shepard again in the next few years. so thank you, but I've played enough
2)I think the same way about some people here

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I find it incredibly difficult to enjoy a story I feel doesn't make sense.

But with the unreliable narrator, you can make it make sense.  To you.

I don't like to have to make things make sense. I really prefer my sense pre-made.

So do I.  But that appears to be quite a rare event, these days.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 25 avril 2013 - 08:16 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I find it incredibly difficult to enjoy a story I feel doesn't make sense.

But with the unreliable narrator, you can make it make sense.  To you.

I don't like to have to make things make sense. I really prefer my sense pre-made.

So do I.  But that appears to be quite a rare event, these days.

It is arguable that it is simply one of the huge drawbacks of large-scale video game design. More resources and opportunities comes at the price of having to coordinate dozens of people, timelines and projects. By the time you get to the final product and have the chance to look at everything holistically ask "does this make sense?" it can often be far too late to really do much of anything about it.

Just my two cents.

[The Hierophant]

Dark Korsar that passage you posted highlights in detail the inequality Tevinter's non mages, and slaves face in comparison to it's mages. Fenris' criticisms towards mages were about their potential to abuse their power, lord it over everyone, and use any sort of justification for doing so. I have yet to see him create a system that enslaves mages, and non mages while limiting the rights of the former, so i see no hypocrisy. Also your statement about him being jealous makes no sense as he was ignorant of Varania's existence until his encounter with Hadrianna in Act 2.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 25 avril 2013 - 08:43 .

[dragonflight288]

The Hierophant wrote...

Dark Korsar that passage you posted highlights in detail the inequality Tevinter's non mages, and slaves face in comparison to it's mages. Fenris' criticisms towards mages were about their potential to abuse their power, lord it over everyone, and use any sort of justification for doing so. I have yet to see him create a system that enslaves mages, and non mages while limiting the rights of the former, so i see no hypocrisy. Also your statement about him being jealous makes no sense as he was ignorant of Varania's existence until his encounter with Hadrianna in Act 2.

But taken into account what she tells Fenris in Act 3, and how he competed for the lyrium runes on his skin to free his sister and his mother from slavery, and her saying that by betraying Fenris back to Denarius to become his apprentice (the only way that could happen was if she were a mage) shows that mages are enslaved and lorded over just as much as non-mages. Only once they're free do they have more opportunity to advance.

[Silfren]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Dark Korsar that passage you posted highlights in detail the inequality Tevinter's non mages, and slaves face in comparison to it's mages. Fenris' criticisms towards mages were about their potential to abuse their power, lord it over everyone, and use any sort of justification for doing so. I have yet to see him create a system that enslaves mages, and non mages while limiting the rights of the former, so i see no hypocrisy. Also your statement about him being jealous makes no sense as he was ignorant of Varania's existence until his encounter with Hadrianna in Act 2.

But taken into account what she tells Fenris in Act 3, and how he competed for the lyrium runes on his skin to free his sister and his mother from slavery, and her saying that by betraying Fenris back to Denarius to become his apprentice (the only way that could happen was if she were a mage) shows that mages are enslaved and lorded over just as much as non-mages. Only once they're free do they have more opportunity to advance.

I also got the impression that Fenris's sister wasn't exactly thrilled about becoming an apprentice either, as if becoming one wasn't her preference, but simply better than the alternative she was given.  Or maybe she was being used in some convoluted powerplay by Denarius.

[Senya]

(Double post, sorry.)

Modifié par almostinsane99, 25 avril 2013 - 10:16 .

[Senya]

It also seems, based on her comments, that being a non-slave, non-mage in the Imperium isn't all it's cracked up to be either. At least, a freed slave isn't. This calls to mind the inherent injustice in the slavery system in Tevinter, a system which they depend on to survive. Orlais, at least, wouldn't collapse should the nobles lose their "servants". And it is that Orlais under Celene is enforcing them more strictly, unlike Tevinter, in which every game, you can find mages,people from the privileged classes, engaging in the slave trade and unconcerned about it.

As for the Crows... They are a guild of assassins. If a country is only required to have the honor of an assassin's guild, then I suppose Tevinter scrapes by, but if a country is supposed to be better than assassins for hire (this isn't Assassin's Creed after all. The Crows kill for money and power)...

[The Hierophant]

dragonflight288 wrote...

But taken into account what she tells Fenris in Act 3, and how he competed for the lyrium runes on his skin to free his sister and his mother from slavery, and her saying that by betraying Fenris back to Denarius to become his apprentice (the only way that could happen was if she were a mage) shows that mages are enslaved and lorded over just as much as non-mages. Only once they're free do they have more opportunity to advance.

I agree to an extent, but the main point of my post is to highlight some issues i have with Korsar's interpretation of Fenris' character in contrast to what we were presented with ingame, and is not about who has more/less rights in Tevinter. Plus Varania would still have limited rights as she's a Libertari.

[Garden of Heaven]

Anyway, since we are going way off topic and turning the thread into a Fenris thread I will make an on topic post.

Do you guys think that there will be an option for peace between the Templars and Magi? just like the Geth-Quarian conflict in Mass Effect 3 had a peace option.

Modifié par Garden of Heaven, 26 avril 2013 - 12:26 .

[Althix]

i think so. i would hate to waste mages for such silly reason.

in ME3 game you can kill Quarians by Geth and kill Geth with red barrel. And i am not sure what effect such a choice will have in me4.

In DA possibility to destroy mages or templars is viewable and possible, because both factions, mages and templars can be rebuild from zero with out making consequences of that choice a problem for future games.

But killing one of the sides would be rather wasteful, so i do hope for peaceful solution.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 26 avril 2013 - 12:44 .

[LobselVith8]

Garden of Heaven wrote...

Anyway, since we are going way off topic and turning the thread into a Fenris thread I will make an on topic post.

Do you guys think that there will be an option for peace between the Templars and Magi? just like the Geth-Quarian conflict in Mass Effect 3 had a peace option.

I think that would make the mage rebellion and every action toward mage independence (including the Magi Boon) pointless.

[Senya]

^^

I suppose all wars ended through reasonable negotiation became pointless then.

I want a peace with oversight between mages shared equally between the Templars or another group of non-Mages and Mages. We have seen what happens when one has more leeway in Tevinter and in Kirkwall.

[-TC1989-]

Garden of Heaven wrote...
Do you guys think that there will be an option for peace between the Templars and Magi? just like the Geth-Quarian conflict in Mass Effect 3 had a peace option.

I don't think so personally. I would be all for it, but it wouldn't happen. There are going to be mages until the end of time, that will be power hungry, and think they're above everyone else. And even then there would have to be some kind of Circle (of course ran by mages, to be more of a school). Otherwise they wouldn't be able to teach themselves to resist demons, or handle their powers. But this is just my opinion on this, it just seems like the realistic, and logical way of going about it.

 But if there was a way, I would aim for that, because I did that exact thing in ME3. Of course by that point in the game I was ready to watch the Quarians burn after that mission with Legion.

[LobselVith8]

almostinsane99 wrote...

^^

I suppose all wars ended through reasonable negotiation became pointless then.

That entirely misses my point about all the actions made towards mage independence. You're welcome to a differing opinion, of course.

[robertthebard]

almostinsane99 wrote...

^^

I suppose all wars ended through reasonable negotiation became pointless then.

I want a peace with oversight between mages shared equally between the Templars or another group of non-Mages and Mages. We have seen what happens when one has more leeway in Tevinter and in Kirkwall.

I'd want the Chatry all the way out of it, because this is exactly what it started out to be, and we can even see this in Origins, since the First Enchanter has the final say on whether mages go to help fight the Blight or not.  While there are other forces at work in Kirkwall to exacerbate the situation, it's not like Templars didn't go around gathering up mage blood children in Ferelden, just ask Wynne how she came to be in the Circle.

[TJPags]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Garden of Heaven wrote...

Anyway, since we are going way off topic and turning the thread into a Fenris thread I will make an on topic post.

Do you guys think that there will be an option for peace between the Templars and Magi? just like the Geth-Quarian conflict in Mass Effect 3 had a peace option.

I think that would make the mage rebellion and every action toward mage independence (including the Magi Boon) pointless.

So, you advocate what?  Endless war?  A mage reign of terror?

[LobselVith8]

TJPags wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think that would make the mage rebellion and every action toward mage independence (including the Magi Boon) pointless.

So, you advocate what?  Endless war?  A mage reign of terror?

I'd like to help maintain mage autonomy from the Chantry and the templars. I don't advocate "compromises" with people who think the Maker gives them religious authority over mages.