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[Sir JK]

Bleachrude wrote...
Talk to her and actually not skip over her dialogue...She doesn't fear the circle but magic...she wanted Jowan to teach Connor enough skill so he could not use his magic.

I recently played through this section and cannot recall her mentioning her grandfather. But I have a save where I could go back and look, I think. Mind pointing me to which conversation and which prompt?

[Bleachrude]

Save connor and then you can ask isolde for a reward.

She gives you her grandfather's staff (now...why does she still have it is a mystery) and she tells you about her experience with magic.

I don't think she hates the circle or mages. She hates magic and what she believes it does to people...

[Asdrubael Vect]

yeah she's really "not hate" circle<_<

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 20 avril 2013 - 03:41 .

[MisterJB]

Bleachrude wrote...

Isolde has a fear of magic, NOT a fear of the circle per se.

The reason why isolde fears magic is that if you talk to her, she'll reveal that her grandfather, who apparently was a mage that was allowed to live with his family, was a massive dick/**** to the rest of the family...

She kind of implied that he used his magic to hurt the other members of the family...

Magic being used to hurt others? Will wonders never cease?

[KiwiQuiche]

MisterJB wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Isolde has a fear of magic, NOT a fear of the circle per se.

The reason why isolde fears magic is that if you talk to her, she'll reveal that her grandfather, who apparently was a mage that was allowed to live with his family, was a massive dick/**** to the rest of the family...

She kind of implied that he used his magic to hurt the other members of the family...

Magic being used to hurt others? Will wonders never cease?

Men being abusive to their families? Will wonders never cease?

[Asdrubael Vect]

hmm okay...

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 20 avril 2013 - 03:44 .

[MisterJB]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Isolde has a fear of magic, NOT a fear of the circle per se.

The reason why isolde fears magic is that if you talk to her, she'll reveal that her grandfather, who apparently was a mage that was allowed to live with his family, was a massive dick/**** to the rest of the family...

She kind of implied that he used his magic to hurt the other members of the family...

Magic being used to hurt others? Will wonders never cease?

Men being abusive to their families? Will wonders never cease?

Good thing most men aren't mages then. Abusive jerks with the ability to shoot fire from their fingertips.

[lil yonce]

And you don't the mages will set up Little Tevinter now that they're free? Now that they have no Templar oversight? They've already shown and taken the first steps IMO. They need to take several seats. I support Circle reform but Templars are necessary. There must be watchers and wardens to protect the people and to protect the mages from themselves. And the mages started the war. The Empire is striking back.

[Althix]

MisterJB wrote...
 with the ability to shoot fire from their fingertips.

Entropic Death is the best anyway.

however normal human depravity is limited by his physical borders. abnormal human such as mage surpass this borders and even goes beyond that.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 20 avril 2013 - 03:25 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Bleachrude wrote...

I don't think she hates the circle or mages. She hates magic and what she believes it does to people...

and she certainly "did not know" about the dangers of Сircle life, Harrowing, Tranquil, Templars opression and many apostates that run from there(and their phylacteries)

and that her only son will not be a Arl or Bann or have any noble rights

even when Isolde dyes(Jowan ritual), her husband Eamon sends Connor to Tevinter because he understands all of it

Connor began to demonstrate magical abilities and according to the laws of the Chantry, this would result in the child being sent to the Circle Tower for tutoring, as well as forfeiting all rights to lands and titles(and for all Сonnors children, too..even if they are will not be mages, but they are more likely to be raised by Chantry as Templars or Chantry sisters/brothers).

and I think I do not need to be reminded that all Сonnor life and rights(for marriage, family and chilldrens and others) will be belong to the Сhanty and Templars

[Asdrubael Vect]

I seriously do not understand the people that support the Templars, it is really very unwise and does not make sense

no srly people, what do you think Templars will do in such situation, even if they somehow can win this battle and somehow stop rebellion...so how they could do that? and what be next?

you really think that mages will accept any Orlais Chantry or Templars control/opressions and back to Chantry Circle System?

or do you really think that if Templars somehow can kill/Tranquil/enslave rebellion mages this will change something? or you are naive to think about the Saerabas system of Qun?

this war is pointless

1)The more you opressing mages the more they resist and they will use all what they have...and we have seen what they can do

2)Mages will be born anyway and they always will fight agains their opression

3)mages always would be better, powerfull and stronger then non-mages, and nothing will change this

3)Blood magic existed in Thedas before humans, and do not even try you can not get rid of it as long as mages and magic with Fade still exist

4)without mages Thedas will be doomed from the Demons, Darkspawns(Grey Wardens cant exist without blood magic)..and i not think that you really would like living by Qun

[MisterJB]

secretsandlies wrote...
Entropic Death is the best anyway.

however normal human depravity is limited by his physical borders. abnormal human such as mage surpass this borders and even goes beyond that.

Right, do what I tell you or I'll tap you on the head and you'll explode from the inside out.

Magic, gotta love it. But only because the mages can cut their fingers and force you to.

[Althix]

oh but the Qun is so much fun! My Warden is preparing to invade Thedas as part of Qunari battle force. Just you wait.

I can tell you what happens if or rather when Templars wins.

Magic will no longer be considered as gift, it will be considered as a curse.
Mages will be chained, colared and will be used as tools.
Step left or step right will be considered as attempt to run away, jumping in one spot will be considered as attempt to fly away. Those attempts will be punished by death.
As victorious side of this conflict Templars can and will spread propaganda that mages are universal evil and any good citizen should report them to local templars office. In few generations this propaganda will become truth. Even for mages.
Apostates will be executed on spot. Supporters as well.

Now think a little what Chantry do for mages now, and you will see that this particular institute of faith aside from giving shelter food and education also giving mages a live. Templars that roams unchecked will rule through fear. This is why God =/= Chantry, and Chantry =/= Templars Order.

Even if Chantry trying to limit natural evolution of man by closing them in the Circles. Chantry still doing for them so very much. It is a shame that short sighted pro mages fails to see this.

Although all those results of Templars victory can be unpleasant at best, alternative is even worse.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 20 avril 2013 - 04:11 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

secretsandlies wrote...

oh but the Qun is so much fun! My Warden is preparing to invade Thedas as part of Qunari battle force. Just you wait.

I can tell you what happens if or rather when Templars wins.

Magic will no longer be considered as gift, it will be considered as a curse.
Mages will be chained, colared and will be used as tools.
Step left or step right will be considered as attempt to run away, jumping in one spot will be considered as attempt to fly away. Those attempts will be punished by death.
As victorious side of this conflict Templars can and will spread propaganda that mages are universal evil and any good citizen should report them to local templars office. In few generations this propaganda will become truth. Even for mages.
Apostates will be executed on spot. Supporters as well.

Now think a little what Chantry do for mages now, and you will see that this particular institute of faith aside from giving shelter food and education also giving mages a live. Templars that roams unchecked will rule through fear. This is why God =/= Chantry, and Chantry =/= Templars Order. 

Even if Chantry trying to limit natural evolution of man by closing them in the Circles. Chantry still doing for them so very much. It is a shame that short sighted pro mages fails to see this.

Although all those results of Templars victory can be unpleasant at best, alternative is even worse.

1)ohh someone still believe in Good N*zi Qun and "uber kossinds"?  is still funny to look at the words of poor mindless slaves under Qamek:D

2)hmm too late:D... this Orlais Chantry boring propaganda of anti-Tevinter, anti-mages, anti-blood magic, anti-Old Gods already exist more than 900 years, and no one except some dump Andrasian peasants and nobles not really cares...including the Grey Wardens who always would need blood mages to exist

3)army's of few hundreds/thousand Chantry Templars with  ~15 Knight-Commanders scattered over  Thedas is really victorious side?   Templars even cant survive a 2 weaks and die after month without very expensive Lyrium supply...just close the gates and trades with Orzammar to Templars and bye bye my poor fanatical Templars:D

4)"the more you opressing mages the more they resist", unfortunately not many of dump fanatics has learned their lession and unfortunately they all die because of their stupidity:D

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 20 avril 2013 - 05:46 .

[DominatorVic]

Sounds to me like your asking for conflicting things. You want your choice to make a huge difference-like deciding who wins, Templars or Mages- but you also want the story to continue in the next game.

That's not possible if we are given the choice of the war's outcome because then in the next game, it would have to be split into two separate stories. That would be ridiculous.

If we are given that choice, then the Dragon Age series would be over.

Modifié par DominatorVic, 20 avril 2013 - 05:46 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

for now I still have bad imagine how developers will get out of this Mage vs Templars war

I hope not as they did to mass effect 3 with unrelated mass effect 4

maybe they have time jump when Templars order and Chantry Circles will not exist or not have their past influence anymore because of some (not know yet) thing

because that would be very stupid if mages are back to control of Chantry and Templars....and i not really belive if Templars would simply allow mages to be free from their control

someone should disappear/loose....and mages in any case cant disappear but the Order/Army of Templars is very easily

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 20 avril 2013 - 06:07 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Why would the developers ever want to end the mage-Templar war? It is a great source of conflict for future games, so they will probably keep it around as a main focal point for the entire DA universe.

[Asdrubael Vect]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why would the developers ever want to end the mage-Templar war? It is a great source of conflict for future games, so they will probably keep it around as a main focal point for the entire DA universe.

Well, actually this war was always be in Thedas since the existence of Orlais Сhantry and Templars Order

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 20 avril 2013 - 06:12 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The conflict is a lot older than that. It goes all the way back to the creation of the Tevinter Imperium, and the slave rebellions.

[Althix]

they can't.

first of all it's boring.
second of all one side will submit or will be destroyed. it's just a matter of time. be it few dozens mages or few hundreds mage hunters. my money on templars. they are soldiers.

eminent Qun invasion is a greater threat.

Besides i highly doubt that this little war with mages will end with destruction of one or another of factions. Most likely it's gonna be as if you sided with elves in da:o. With the death of ****** fanatics on the both sides.

General motivation of Templar Order is ancient and not evolving. As result it must die off with those who follows its doctrine. I can't see possible positive outcome for setting if mages or templars wins.

And even if there gonna be DA4 with Qunari invasion, i doubt that Qun could conquer it all or conquer at least something as endgame result, even if player will fight for Qunari.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 20 avril 2013 - 06:23 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The conflict is a lot older than that. It goes all the way back to the creation of the Tevinter Imperium, and the slave rebellions.

in these ancient years Humans were very greed for Magic powers and Ancient Elven immortality but after 200 years of first Blight...mage Andraste with big armys of barbarians appeared to conquer weakened Tevinter and rule by herself with "Maker-Husband will"

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 20 avril 2013 - 06:27 .

[Senya]

^^

More like a former slave leading a rebellion of barbarians, former slaves such as the elves, amd non-magical peasants of Tevinter who were sick of the old regime.

Maker or no Maker doesn't change Tevinter, particularly the old Tevinter Imperium at its height, oppressing the many for the sake of the few. The Circle system is flawed, but at most it was the many oppressing the few.

[Asdrubael Vect]

some blood magic(what we see in Kirkwall brothel) and formed poor slave girl(with big magic abilitys) from small ferelden village near brecillian forest have become a single wife(with always claiming herselfs as Maker wife) and commander of  Maferat chief of  big barrbarian clan

we not ever know about Andraste race, and who was her father.

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 20 avril 2013 - 06:48 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Andraste was a human, that much is certain, who her father was is irrelevant, and there is nothing to suggest that she had any magical ability. Andraste was an inspirational figure for sure, but nothing points towards magic. Some have put forward a theory on her being a mage, but it is largely unsubstantiated.

[Vit246]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Andraste was a human, that much is certain, who her father was is irrelevant, and there is nothing to suggest that she had any magical ability. Andraste was an inspirational figure for sure, but nothing points towards magic. Some have put forward a theory on her being a mage, but it is largely unsubstantiated.

"Natural disasters" that happen to coincide with her 1st Exalted March against the Imperium? Droughts, famines, floodings. "Scorching the land". "He opened the heavens and bade the waters flow, and washed away their filth." Words from the Disciple Cathaire.

Nothing points towards magic? Unsubstantiated? Sounds like the Primal School of Magic to me.

Who knows what really happened a thousand years ago.

Modifié par Vit246, 20 avril 2013 - 08:49 .