1605 réponses à ce sujet

[Rinshikai10]

Agreed, it never ends well.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Orlaisian and Chantry power are not one and the same, even if they are sometimes intertwined. Most wars Orlais gets involved in for example don't include Exalted Marches.

[dragonflight288]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Orlaisian and Chantry power are not one and the same, even if they are sometimes intertwined. Most wars Orlais gets involved in for example don't include Exalted Marches.

And the Chantry gets involved any any conflict that Orlais has any issues with, and always on the side of Orlais. It may not be an Exalted March, but the Grand Cleric of Ferelden most certainly was on the side of Orlais in "Stolen Throne." The Divine is rumored to have named the Dragon Age in support of the Orlesian overseer of Ferelden because his crest is that of a dragon. And when the elves of the Dales were beating Orlais and were on the verge of sacking Val Royeaux, the Chantry declared and exalted march, and it was the Chantry that declared that the elves should live in alienages after the war.

for the elves, it was convert or die, and shartan was taken out of the Chant entirely and put into the dissonant verses.

[In Exile]

Orlais is the seat of Chantry power, and I think pretending like the Chantry doesn't have a vested interest in having a powerful patron state like Orlais is silly.

[dragonflight288]

In Exile wrote...

Orlais is the seat of Chantry power, and I think pretending like the Chantry doesn't have a vested interest in having a powerful patron state like Orlais is silly.

Then let's go back to the Chantry's inception.

Drakon chose one of many Andrastian cults nearly a century after her death to help him build his empire, and he united Orlais through a series of Exalted Marches, fully intending on spreading the Chant that way.

Orlais was built on Exalted Marches. Then when Orlais went anywhere, the Chantry went with it. Nevarra was occupied after a blight, and the chantry settled in nicely. Orlais conquered Ferelden, and the Chantry settled in and immediately started supporting Orlais.

Every single time, the Chantry is there supporting Orlais Every single time.

The Chantry couldn't have spread its influence with Orlesian aid, and there wouldn't even be an Orlais if the Chantry didn't use military might to help Drakon conquer everyone else.

Orlais and the Chantry have been in bed together from the beginning, and they've always gotten involved with politics in support of Orlais without fail.

[In Exile]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Then let's go back to the Chantry's inception.

I thought I was ageeing with you?

The Chantry couldn't have spread its influence with Orlesian aid, and there wouldn't even be an Orlais if the Chantry didn't use military might to help Drakon conquer everyone else.

Orlais and the Chantry have been in bed together from the beginning, and they've always gotten involved with politics in support of Orlais without fail.  

I thought that's what I was saying... 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Orlaisian and Chantry power are not one and the same, even if they are sometimes intertwined. Most wars Orlais gets involved in for example don't include Exalted Marches.

And the Chantry gets involved any any conflict that Orlais has any issues with, and always on the side of Orlais. It may not be an Exalted March, but the Grand Cleric of Ferelden most certainly was on the side of Orlais in "Stolen Throne." The Divine is rumored to have named the Dragon Age in support of the Orlesian overseer of Ferelden because his crest is that of a dragon. And when the elves of the Dales were beating Orlais and were on the verge of sacking Val Royeaux, the Chantry declared and exalted march, and it was the Chantry that declared that the elves should live in alienages after the war.

for the elves, it was convert or die, and shartan was taken out of the Chant entirely and put into the dissonant verses.

I don't remember the Chantry intervening in any of Orais wars with Nevarra. Most of which I think ended in humiliating defeats. Also, the Dragon Age was named because a giant dragon showed up on the eve of the next age and starting going on a destructive rampage. Ages are named for signs and portents at the end of the previous one, so I think thatt is much more likely than some important Orlesian guy in Ferelden used a dragon insignia.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 03 octobre 2013 - 05:21 .

[dragonflight288]

[quote]In Exile wrote...

[quote]dragonflight288 wrote...

Then let's go back to the Chantry's inception. [/quote]

I thought I was ageeing with you?[/quote]

sorry. I misread the inflection. I've been debating pro-chantry and pro-templars a lot today, and I'm seeing their tone in a lot of stuff. I apologize for misreading you.

[quote][quote]The Chantry couldn't have spread its influence with Orlesian aid, and there wouldn't even be an Orlais if the Chantry didn't use military might to help Drakon conquer everyone else.

Orlais and the Chantry have been in bed together from the beginning, and they've always gotten involved with politics in support of Orlais without fail.  [/quote]

I thought that's what I was saying... 
[/quote][/quote]

Again, sorry, I misread your post, or at least its inflection.

[dragonflight288]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Orlaisian and Chantry power are not one and the same, even if they are sometimes intertwined. Most wars Orlais gets involved in for example don't include Exalted Marches.

And the Chantry gets involved any any conflict that Orlais has any issues with, and always on the side of Orlais. It may not be an Exalted March, but the Grand Cleric of Ferelden most certainly was on the side of Orlais in "Stolen Throne." The Divine is rumored to have named the Dragon Age in support of the Orlesian overseer of Ferelden because his crest is that of a dragon. And when the elves of the Dales were beating Orlais and were on the verge of sacking Val Royeaux, the Chantry declared and exalted march, and it was the Chantry that declared that the elves should live in alienages after the war.

for the elves, it was convert or die, and shartan was taken out of the Chant entirely and put into the dissonant verses.

I don't remember the Chantry intervening in any of Orais wars with Nevarra. Most of which I think ended in humiliating defeats. Also, the Dragon Age was named because a giant dragon showed up on the eve of the next age and starting going on a destructive rampage. Ages are named for signs and portents at the end of the previous one, so I think thatt is much more likely than some important Orlesian guy in Ferelden used a dragon insignia.

Thedas Calendar codex entry makes it clear that Divine Beatrix was originally going to name it the Sun Age, as a way to honor Orlais' might and glory. Then a High Dragon showed up in the Frostback Mountains and she swiftly changed it to the Dragon Age.

Then the dragon veered away from its expected direction of east (into Ferelden) and went West (into Orlais) and the Fereldens won the battle of River Dane, and so the Dragon Age came to be believed to be an age of violent change and upheaval....

Which is true, come to think of it. We're barely half way through the age, the Chantry has fallen to pieces, Orlais is suffering a civil war, the veil is torn with demons pouring through, and mages and templars are duking it out.

[In Exile]

dragonflight288 wrote...

sorry. I misread the inflection. I've been debating pro-chantry and pro-templars a lot today, and I'm seeing their tone in a lot of stuff. I apologize for misreading you.

No worries.  

If you're being cornered I'll take a look over the posts and try to respond too, because again, we're of one mind on the issue. 

[dragonflight288]

In Exile wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

sorry. I misread the inflection. I've been debating pro-chantry and pro-templars a lot today, and I'm seeing their tone in a lot of stuff. I apologize for misreading you.

No worries.  

If you're being cornered I'll take a look over the posts and try to respond too, because again, we're of one mind on the issue. 

Sweet.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Chantry has only supported Orlais whenever they had a chance to spread the Chant aswell, so far anyway. In the wars between Nevarra and Orlais, the Chantry hasn't involved itself, because it is already established in Nevarra. It involved itself in the war with Ferelden only as a political entity, and not as a military power, and even then, Ferelden was having a hard time embracing Chantry dogma, and so the reasons for supporting Orlais is obvious.
The Exalted March on the Dales was a war of self-defense for the Chantry. The Dalish was out to destroy the Chantry just as much as Orlais, so again, the reason for Chantry involvement is obvious.

[Rinshikai10]

I leave the boards for a day, and a page pops up.

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 04 octobre 2013 - 03:01 .

[Rinshikai10]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

With the Civil War I can see that costing them. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some borders change before DAI is done. With Orlais and the Chantry/Justinia having only a fraction of the power/influence they use to have outside their borders.

And I would call it a good thing. I don't think it's a good idea for any religion to get politically involved with any country.

I the long run its going to cost the Chantry greatly, leaving Justinia with few options. She may have to resort to pleading for aid. (this will sound cruel, but I would like to see this happen at least once in DAI)

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Chantry has only supported Orlais whenever they had a chance to spread the Chant aswell, so far anyway. In the wars between Nevarra and Orlais, the Chantry hasn't involved itself, because it is already established in Nevarra. It involved itself in the war with Ferelden only as a political entity, and not as a military power, and even then, Ferelden was having a hard time embracing Chantry dogma, and so the reasons for supporting Orlais is obvious.
The Exalted March on the Dales was a war of self-defense for the Chantry. The Dalish was out to destroy the Chantry just as much as Orlais, so again, the reason for Chantry involvement is obvious.

They supported Orlais in Ferelden where the Chant was already spread, and the Grand Cleric taught (The Stolen Throne) that the Fereldens shouldn't fight the Orlesians who were raping their mothers, (case in point, Loghain) stealing their land and goods (letter in Arl Eamon's dungeon when investigating what's going on before meeting Connor,) and only started changing their tune when it became apparent that there was a good chance the Fereldens could win the war. And after the war, Loghain and Maric were seriously considering throwing the Chantry out entirely because they are considered an Orlesian organization over a religious one.

If it happened in Ferelden, it is not a stretch, especially considering Orlais and the Chantry have been supporting each other from day one, that it also happens elsewhere.

[Angrywolves]

Don't believe Emperor's statements about the Exalted March being self defense.
We'll see.
I would like to see a new Divine and new chantry leadership .
Lambert gone.
All of them out of the picture.

[Rinshikai10]

It's possible that Lambert is already dead (World of thedas time line)

There has also been rumors that Justinia may have died as well (leaked survey, not 100% sure) However, I don't know if she is the type of character that you can replace easily. She played a key role, and I don't think that it's finished just yet.

[Angrywolves]

If true, who is the leader of the chantry when DAI starts.
Maybe it'll be in that Masked Empire.
One of Gaider 's books, written by someone else it seems.

[Rinshikai10]

Angrywolves wrote...

If true, who is the leader of the chantry when DAI starts.
Maybe it'll be in that Masked Empire.
One of Gaider 's books, written by someone else it seems.

The Masked Empire is going to be written by Patrick Weekes. Who worked on some of the key story arc in Mass Effect 3, such as Tuchanka and Ranoch. 

At this point, I believe that The Masked Empire takes place during the events of Asunder. (Sort of like a different POV from the same larger story. Game of Thrones sort of thing.)

It will be interesting to see how its connect to the larger story.

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 09 octobre 2013 - 08:42 .

[Angrywolves]

Wonder why him ?
Wonder why Gaider didn't write it himself .
What's the current timeline in relation to the games, books, and comics
?
So who is the Divine at the start of DAI if Justinia has died?
Who would be the leading candidates ?

[Rinshikai10]

Chances are David Gaider already has too much on his plate to write another book.

The timeline for the the comics is about 9:38-9:39, and Asunder is about the same. While The Masked Empire is currently unknown, but I would guess it takes place before Inquisition, making it around 9:39-9:40 in all honesty.

If Justinia is dead, I would guess the new Divine would be one chosen by Lambert's faction from the Grand Clerics.

IMHO Leliana would not be one candidate due to her connection with Justinia. I can't understand why some think she would be a possibility.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Maybe there is no divine well we have chaos and we will choose divine but i hope for possibility destroying chantry.

I don't see leliana as divine too many know that she is divine left hand and do dirty work but maybe she is chantry sister officially now.

[Rinshikai10]

I get the feeling that if Justinia does die, Leliana has no real reason to stay in the Chantry. She was the one that brought Lelaina to the Chantry, and possibly was the reason she return after DAO.

[Angrywolves]

If my Inquisitor can get rid of Lambert, then I will.
Leliana did say in DAO " I know what I believe ", so her faith might not be tied to who the Grand Cleric is.

[dragonflight288]

Angrywolves wrote...

If my Inquisitor can get rid of Lambert, then I will.
Leliana did say in DAO " I know what I believe ", so her faith might not be tied to who the Grand Cleric is.

The guardian of the Urn of Ashes also implies that Leliana only started talking of her vision for the attention, and if Leliana is hardened, she talks about how she was so bored at the Chantry.