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[Rinshikai10]

I also remember that she gets very defensive when Zev talks to her about her vision. As far as I know she only ever tells the Wardens about this, with no banter of her openly talking about it afterwords.

I sometimes see Leliana having a bit of a narcissistic view of the Maker. Sort of like she is the present day Andrasta, and her life is like a retelling of the tale.

Maybe this could be used by the current Divine as a way to gather support. (Hey we have Andrasta reborn!) crazier things can happen.

[dragonflight288]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I also remember that she gets very defensive when Zev talks to her about her vision. As far as I know she only ever tells the Wardens about this, with no banter of her openly talking about it afterwords.

I sometimes see Leliana having a bit of a narcissistic view of the Maker. Sort of like she is the present day Andrasta, and her life is like a retelling of the tale.

Maybe this could be used by the current Divine as a way to gather support. (Hey we have Andrasta reborn!) crazier things can happen.

It's unlikely Leliana would allow herself to be called Andraste reborn. Maybe, the next prophet chosen by the Maker?

Why not? The maker already chose his bride once, and Andraste was a married woman when he did that.

[Rinshikai10]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I also remember that she gets very defensive when Zev talks to her about her vision. As far as I know she only ever tells the Wardens about this, with no banter of her openly talking about it afterwords.

I sometimes see Leliana having a bit of a narcissistic view of the Maker. Sort of like she is the present day Andrasta, and her life is like a retelling of the tale.

Maybe this could be used by the current Divine as a way to gather support. (Hey we have Andrasta reborn!) crazier things can happen.

It's unlikely Leliana would allow herself to be called Andraste reborn. Maybe, the next prophet chosen by the Maker?

Why not? The maker already chose his bride once, and Andraste was a married woman when he did that.

That seems more likley, given how Leliana is seen in DAO.

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I also remember that she gets very defensive when Zev talks to her about her vision. As far as I know she only ever tells the Wardens about this, with no banter of her openly talking about it afterwords.

I sometimes see Leliana having a bit of a narcissistic view of the Maker. Sort of like she is the present day Andrasta, and her life is like a retelling of the tale.

Maybe this could be used by the current Divine as a way to gather support. (Hey we have Andrasta reborn!) crazier things can happen.

It's unlikely Leliana would allow herself to be called Andraste reborn. Maybe, the next prophet chosen by the Maker?

Why not? The maker already chose his bride once, and Andraste was a married woman when he did that.

With her repuation i doubt that...

[dragonflight288]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I also remember that she gets very defensive when Zev talks to her about her vision. As far as I know she only ever tells the Wardens about this, with no banter of her openly talking about it afterwords.

I sometimes see Leliana having a bit of a narcissistic view of the Maker. Sort of like she is the present day Andrasta, and her life is like a retelling of the tale.

Maybe this could be used by the current Divine as a way to gather support. (Hey we have Andrasta reborn!) crazier things can happen.

It's unlikely Leliana would allow herself to be called Andraste reborn. Maybe, the next prophet chosen by the Maker?

Why not? The maker already chose his bride once, and Andraste was a married woman when he did that.

With her repuation i doubt that...

Her reputation in a small, backwater Chantry of Lothering? At the end of Origins, she can either lead an expedition with Genitivi for the Urn, authorized by the Divine, travel with the Warden or so on.  And she's currently the left-hand of the Divine.

Her reputation has improved dramatically.

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I also remember that she gets very defensive when Zev talks to her about her vision. As far as I know she only ever tells the Wardens about this, with no banter of her openly talking about it afterwords.

I sometimes see Leliana having a bit of a narcissistic view of the Maker. Sort of like she is the present day Andrasta, and her life is like a retelling of the tale.

Maybe this could be used by the current Divine as a way to gather support. (Hey we have Andrasta reborn!) crazier things can happen.

It's unlikely Leliana would allow herself to be called Andraste reborn. Maybe, the next prophet chosen by the Maker?

Why not? The maker already chose his bride once, and Andraste was a married woman when he did that.

With her repuation i doubt that...

Her reputation in a small, backwater Chantry of Lothering? At the end of Origins, she can either lead an expedition with Genitivi for the Urn, authorized by the Divine, travel with the Warden or so on.  And she's currently the left-hand of the Divine.

Her reputation has improved dramatically.

well epilogues are only rumors she is left hand of divine she is doing dirty work for her like assassinations and is known for that i doubt with that reputation she will go far in official chantry sister place. 

[dragonflight288]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I also remember that she gets very defensive when Zev talks to her about her vision. As far as I know she only ever tells the Wardens about this, with no banter of her openly talking about it afterwords.

I sometimes see Leliana having a bit of a narcissistic view of the Maker. Sort of like she is the present day Andrasta, and her life is like a retelling of the tale.

Maybe this could be used by the current Divine as a way to gather support. (Hey we have Andrasta reborn!) crazier things can happen.

It's unlikely Leliana would allow herself to be called Andraste reborn. Maybe, the next prophet chosen by the Maker?

Why not? The maker already chose his bride once, and Andraste was a married woman when he did that.

With her repuation i doubt that...

Her reputation in a small, backwater Chantry of Lothering? At the end of Origins, she can either lead an expedition with Genitivi for the Urn, authorized by the Divine, travel with the Warden or so on.  And she's currently the left-hand of the Divine.

Her reputation has improved dramatically.

well epilogues are only rumors she is left hand of divine she is doing dirty work for her like assassinations and is known for that i doubt with that reputation she will go far in official chantry sister place. 

Leliana specifically tells the Warden (if she is unromanced) that she is leading a Chantry expedition before the epilogues even roll, in the throne room. If unhardened, she'll tell the Warden she's leading the expedition to the Urn of Andraste, and if hardened she says she's leading an expedition into the deep roads to learn more about broodmothers. This isn't the epilogues, it's what she says.

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I also remember that she gets very defensive when Zev talks to her about her vision. As far as I know she only ever tells the Wardens about this, with no banter of her openly talking about it afterwords.

I sometimes see Leliana having a bit of a narcissistic view of the Maker. Sort of like she is the present day Andrasta, and her life is like a retelling of the tale.

Maybe this could be used by the current Divine as a way to gather support. (Hey we have Andrasta reborn!) crazier things can happen.

It's unlikely Leliana would allow herself to be called Andraste reborn. Maybe, the next prophet chosen by the Maker?

Why not? The maker already chose his bride once, and Andraste was a married woman when he did that.

With her repuation i doubt that...

Her reputation in a small, backwater Chantry of Lothering? At the end of Origins, she can either lead an expedition with Genitivi for the Urn, authorized by the Divine, travel with the Warden or so on.  And she's currently the left-hand of the Divine.

Her reputation has improved dramatically.

well epilogues are only rumors she is left hand of divine she is doing dirty work for her like assassinations and is known for that i doubt with that reputation she will go far in official chantry sister place. 

Leliana specifically tells the Warden (if she is unromanced) that she is leading a Chantry expedition before the epilogues even roll, in the throne room. If unhardened, she'll tell the Warden she's leading the expedition to the Urn of Andraste, and if hardened she says she's leading an expedition into the deep roads to learn more about broodmothers. This isn't the epilogues, it's what she says.

Well she tells you that she stays with warden if romanced did she stayed?

[Rinshikai10]

Even though she says these things before the epilogues slides, no matter what we choose, she always becomes Justinias left hand. Hopefully in the next game, we as the players can see the outcomes of our decisions play out.

[Angrywolves]

Reputation is overrated.
shrugs
I liked Leliana .
I hope my Inquisitor can work with her to reform the chantry , and doesn't have to kill her.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Angrywolves wrote...

Reputation is overrated.
shrugs
I liked Leliana .
I hope my Inquisitor can work with her to reform the chantry , and doesn't have to kill her.

well if you want become divine your hands have to be clean at least others must don't know that in leliana case well with her reputation and she isn't even grand cleric.  

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 15 octobre 2013 - 04:54 .

[Angrywolves]

Clean hands ?
As we know here in the US a lot of clergy don't have clean hands.
There was the Vatican banking scandal in Italy, pedophile priests, and probably other stuff we don't know know about .
This Lambert fellow doesn't seem to have clean hands .
shrugs.
By the end of DAI the Inquisitor will either be able to appoint the Divine or force chantry leadership to choose the person the Inquisitor wants.
If I'm in that position I'll choose Leliana unless there's a compelling reason not to.
Her alleged reputation is not a compelling reason not to choose her imo.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Angrywolves wrote...

Clean hands ?
As we know here in the US a lot of clergy don't have clean hands.
There was the Vatican banking scandal in Italy, pedophile priests, and probably other stuff we don't know know about .
This Lambert fellow doesn't seem to have clean hands .
shrugs.
By the end of DAI the Inquisitor will either be able to appoint the Divine or force chantry leadership to choose the person the Inquisitor wants.
If I'm in that position I'll choose Leliana unless there's a compelling reason not to.
Her alleged reputation is not a compelling reason not to choose her imo.

That depends on the position lambert and templars may have dirty hands because they are soldiers and lambert position isn't about most popular guy among templars.

Divine is face of the chantry and i doubt that pedophile as pope would be accepted don't you think?Leliana is divine pawn and left hand others knew that she do dirty work for her especially that leliana is stupid enough to tell who she is.as face of your organization you put someone clean with good reputation i doubt that you would want joker as someone who represents your organisation.  

Second leliana isn't leader i don't find her charismatic and someone who will gain people love and well she isn't very smart in politics she is assassin nothing more.

[Rinshikai10]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Clean hands ?
As we know here in the US a lot of clergy don't have clean hands.
There was the Vatican banking scandal in Italy, pedophile priests, and probably other stuff we don't know know about .
This Lambert fellow doesn't seem to have clean hands .
shrugs.
By the end of DAI the Inquisitor will either be able to appoint the Divine or force chantry leadership to choose the person the Inquisitor wants.
If I'm in that position I'll choose Leliana unless there's a compelling reason not to.
Her alleged reputation is not a compelling reason not to choose her imo.

That depends on the position lambert and templars may have dirty hands because they are soldiers and lambert position isn't about most popular guy among templars.

Divine is face of the chantry and i doubt that pedophile as pope would be accepted don't you think?Leliana is divine pawn and left hand others knew that she do dirty work for her especially that leliana is stupid enough to tell who she is.as face of your organization you put someone clean with good reputation i doubt that you would want joker as someone who represents your organisation.  

Second leliana isn't leader i don't find her charismatic and someone who will gain people love and well she isn't very smart in politics she is assassin nothing more.

I agree that Leliana is not very leader like, making her less likely be be a future Divine. Chance are if Jusitnia dies, the Grand Clerics with have a vote and choose someone like Beatrix. (someone that they can control and influence easily)

@Angrywolves

I agree with you one no one has clean hands,however, TheKomandorSheadard has a point in knowing Leliana as the Divines left hand.

Elthina in DA2 will say that Leliana does things that would blacken the Divines name if she had done these herself. If Elthina knows this, then how many of the other Grand Clerics also know. Should Justinia die, Leliana is likely screwed because in all honesty would they see her as a tool of Chantry or Justinias tool?

[dragonflight288]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Clean hands ?
As we know here in the US a lot of clergy don't have clean hands.
There was the Vatican banking scandal in Italy, pedophile priests, and probably other stuff we don't know know about .
This Lambert fellow doesn't seem to have clean hands .
shrugs.
By the end of DAI the Inquisitor will either be able to appoint the Divine or force chantry leadership to choose the person the Inquisitor wants.
If I'm in that position I'll choose Leliana unless there's a compelling reason not to.
Her alleged reputation is not a compelling reason not to choose her imo.

That depends on the position lambert and templars may have dirty hands because they are soldiers and lambert position isn't about most popular guy among templars.

Divine is face of the chantry and i doubt that pedophile as pope would be accepted don't you think?Leliana is divine pawn and left hand others knew that she do dirty work for her especially that leliana is stupid enough to tell who she is.as face of your organization you put someone clean with good reputation i doubt that you would want joker as someone who represents your organisation.  

Second leliana isn't leader i don't find her charismatic and someone who will gain people love and well she isn't very smart in politics she is assassin nothing more.

I agree that Leliana is not very leader like, making her less likely be be a future Divine. Chance are if Jusitnia dies, the Grand Clerics with have a vote and choose someone like Beatrix. (someone that they can control and influence easily)

@Angrywolves

I agree with you one no one has clean hands,however, TheKomandorSheadard has a point in knowing Leliana as the Divines left hand.

Elthina in DA2 will say that Leliana does things that would blacken the Divines name if she had done these herself. If Elthina knows this, then how many of the other Grand Clerics also know. Should Justinia die, Leliana is likely screwed because in all honesty would they see her as a tool of Chantry or Justinias tool?

Or at least, Leliana would be screwed in the context of having influence with the divine. I think she's resourceful enough to get out of that environment should it turn hostile.

[Rinshikai10]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Clean hands ?
As we know here in the US a lot of clergy don't have clean hands.
There was the Vatican banking scandal in Italy, pedophile priests, and probably other stuff we don't know know about .
This Lambert fellow doesn't seem to have clean hands .
shrugs.
By the end of DAI the Inquisitor will either be able to appoint the Divine or force chantry leadership to choose the person the Inquisitor wants.
If I'm in that position I'll choose Leliana unless there's a compelling reason not to.
Her alleged reputation is not a compelling reason not to choose her imo.

That depends on the position lambert and templars may have dirty hands because they are soldiers and lambert position isn't about most popular guy among templars.

Divine is face of the chantry and i doubt that pedophile as pope would be accepted don't you think?Leliana is divine pawn and left hand others knew that she do dirty work for her especially that leliana is stupid enough to tell who she is.as face of your organization you put someone clean with good reputation i doubt that you would want joker as someone who represents your organisation.  

Second leliana isn't leader i don't find her charismatic and someone who will gain people love and well she isn't very smart in politics she is assassin nothing more.

I agree that Leliana is not very leader like, making her less likely be be a future Divine. Chance are if Jusitnia dies, the Grand Clerics with have a vote and choose someone like Beatrix. (someone that they can control and influence easily)

@Angrywolves

I agree with you one no one has clean hands,however, TheKomandorSheadard has a point in knowing Leliana as the Divines left hand.

Elthina in DA2 will say that Leliana does things that would blacken the Divines name if she had done these herself. If Elthina knows this, then how many of the other Grand Clerics also know. Should Justinia die, Leliana is likely screwed because in all honesty would they see her as a tool of Chantry or Justinias tool?

Or at least, Leliana would be screwed in the context of having influence with the divine. I think she's resourceful enough to get out of that environment should it turn hostile.

True, Asunder shows that resourcefulness. However, should this situation happen, where will she go?

She can't stay where the Chantry influence is strong, and Orlais neighbors seem very distrustful of Orlesians (for one reason or another). That leave's the rebelling Mages, Seekers/Templar, the Warden, or the Inquisition as possible shelter.

I'm starting to believe that even Justinia has fled, if she still be alive.

At the start of MotA I remember Cassandra talking about one life still being in danger from the Orlesians. Could the nobles be going after the Divine for what she has done? (pure speculation)

[azarhal]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

At the start of MotA I remember Cassandra talking about one life still being in danger from the Orlesians. Could the nobles be going after the Divine for what she has done? (pure speculation)

huh? MotA had nothing to do with the Divine.

Going by Cassandra's comments, Orlais is blaming a political entity for Duke Prosper's death and they want them to provide the killer. There are no Hawke to give to Orlais, so either they say "no" and start a "war" or provide an innocent. Her comment about "a life being in danger" could be either refering to Hawke or the innocent. The Chantry isn't aimed by Orlais political measures here. This pretty much leave Nevarra or Kirkwall, but I'm going for Nevarra because of these:

• Duke Prosper killed the former owners of Château-Haine. They were Nevarran Dragon Hunters.
• The castle is beyond Cumberland in the Vimarks mountains which should belong to Nevarra.
• Orlais is talking about sanctions and other political measures to get the killer. Cassandra is pissed off by this (she's a Nevarran noble).

[Angrywolves]

About Leliana we shall see.
If my If my Inquisitor has any say it won't be Beatrix.
I presume Bioware has some optimal person who could do the job
honestly with integrity and who the people will support .
I presume if it's not Leliana there's someone else we don't know about or aren't thinking of.

[Rinshikai10]

azarhal wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

At the start of MotA I remember Cassandra talking about one life still being in danger from the Orlesians. Could the nobles be going after the Divine for what she has done? (pure speculation)

huh? MotA had nothing to do with the Divine.

Going by Cassandra's comments, Orlais is blaming a political entity for Duke Prosper's death and they want them to provide the killer. There are no Hawke to give to Orlais, so either they say "no" and start a "war" or provide an innocent. Her comment about "a life being in danger" could be either refering to Hawke or the innocent. The Chantry isn't aimed by Orlais political measures here. This pretty much leave Nevarra or Kirkwall, but I'm going for Nevarra because of these:

• Duke Prosper killed the former owners of Château-Haine. They were Nevarran Dragon Hunters.
• The castle is beyond Cumberland in the Vimarks mountains which should belong to Nevarra.
• Orlais is talking about sanctions and other political measures to get the killer. Cassandra is pissed off by this (she's a Nevarran noble).

I have a hard time believing Cassandra is referring to Hawke or an innocent when she says "perhaps one still is." As far as I know, Cassandra is still the Divines Right hand, when she interrogates Varric. Which gives me the impression that this life she talks about has to be connected to the Chantry in some way.

Only Justinia comes to mind, and after the events of Asunder the Divines life could be threatened by Lambert loyalists. (I was only referring to Cassandra's words at the start of MotA, not the whole DLC)

When it comes to being a Nevarran noble, I would bet that like Sebastian, Cassandra forfeited her noble claims once she joined the Chantry.

[dragonflight288]

When it comes to being a Nevarran noble, I would bet that like Sebastian, Cassandra forfeited her noble claims once she joined the Chantry.

There is some lore in Origins to back that up. The templar we rescue from Howe's estate said his sister Alfstanna makes a better bann than he, so he joined the Chantry and the templars so Alfstanna would inherit.

I suppose that means that any who join the Chantry, whether as chantry brothers (Sebastian) or the armed forces of it, have to give up their claim to noble titles.

[Reznore57]

Yeah , it seems you gave up your former title and land when you join the Chantry.
Evangeline in Asunder is a bit conflicted about it ,I think she was an only child and so the land of her father was lost .

[Rinshikai10]

@Reznore57
I don't recall Evangeline being too conflicted about about losing her family estate. (Haven't read Asunder in a while) I remember that she did not get along with her mother, who wanted her to marry and act like a proper lady of Orlais.

@Angerywolves

I was referring to a Divine like Beatrix not Beatrix herself. At this point I don't think we are going to have a say in Chantry affairs. We are not connected to the Chantry systems, plus we are likely to have more pressing matters then to select a new Divine.

From what I can remember from Asunder, most Divines are figure heads rather then practical leaders. If you are given the power to choose, whats to stop the people from seeing this a ploy by the Inquisitor? The games about consequences for are actions, and this IMHO can go so wrong for the player.

[azarhal]

dragonflight288 wrote...

When it comes to being
a Nevarran noble, I would bet that like Sebastian, Cassandra forfeited
her noble claims once she joined the Chantry.

There
is some lore in Origins to back that up. The templar we rescue from
Howe's estate said his sister Alfstanna makes a better bann than he, so
he joined the Chantry and the templars so Alfstanna would inherit.

I
suppose that means that any who join the Chantry, whether as chantry
brothers (Sebastian) or the armed forces of it, have to give up their
claim to noble titles.

Sebastian took vows to become an initiate (no titles, no lands and chastity). He repudied them anyhow. You can be a lay sister/brother too, like Leliana. These people are known as affirmed and take no vows.  Templars take vows when they gain their knighthood, but it's not the same one as the initiate takes, because it doesn't include chastity. Alfstanna's brother might have taken initiate vows to give up his claim.

By the way, I haven't seen Cassandra refered to as Ser (i.e. a knight) a single time in all the DA material, I don't think she has been knighted (which is a prerequisite for being a full-fledged templar might I add).

[wcholcombe]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

@Reznore57
I don't recall Evangeline being too conflicted about about losing her family estate. (Haven't read Asunder in a while) I remember that she did not get along with her mother, who wanted her to marry and act like a proper lady of Orlais.
 

She didn't want to be a lady and have to play the game.  When her father died, she had the option to leave the Templars and inherit I believe, but she choose not to.

She was saddened by the fact that her uncle who inherited the lands and the title gambled away the money and had to sell the land.

[wcholcombe]

By the way, I haven't seen Cassandra refered to as Ser (i.e. a knight) a single time in all the DA material, I don't think she has been knighted (which is a prerequisite for being a full-fledged templar might I add).

Well, that could just be a title used for formal occassions.  As Cassandra is rarely in a military or formal setting it might just not come up.  Or it may be that the title of her office trumps the "Ser".  Much as you would say "Knight Commander Meredith" not "Ser Knight commander Meredith"

I don't believe the lord seeker was ever called "Ser" either in assunder.

Modifié par wcholcombe, 16 octobre 2013 - 05:15 .