1605 réponses à ce sujet

[Angrywolves]

Obviously someone would have told the Templars where lyrium deposites were.Dwarves expelled from Orzammar have no reason to keep such a secret, particularly if they've been paid to divulge that info. So it's still a possibility.

[Rinshikai10]

Oh I agree with you on that Angrywolves, it is very possible that exiled Dwarves may help the Templars find lyrium. They may help all the factions weather its Justinia, Lambert, Fiona or others. I'm betting they will expect payment though.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

The point I was making with Loghain is up until DAO he was seen a hero for his actions. The same can be said the Templars. Then when he started to make the wrong calls it cost him the support of the people, and that is vital for victory in war.

It could be possible for the Divine to try and lure Templars back with the promise of Lyrium. However, it she can't enforce the monopoly that may not be possible.

If she doesn't control the Templars she can't enforce the Lyrium trade, if she doesn't have Lyrium she can't gain back the Templars. Its a situation where she is screwed either way.

If the Mages are grouped together due to a few bad apples (Blood mages) I'm going to bet that the same thing will happen to the Templars due to the Red faction and the zealots within their ranks.

The reason I believe that the Wardens are gaining power, is due to the quests in DA2. They reveal that Kirkwall is starting to see Fereldan as a possible rival in waking sea, one dialogue between raiders says that if they are left unchecked, the will rule waking sea in time.

Well he was hero until he lost very few peoples questioned him if templars will lost that may end that same way but i doubt that because mages will never replace them as heroes and well mages don't have any chance to win with templars. 

If she have money she can buy lyrium as i said only 4 groups need lyrium and if templars won't have money for that chantry can pull that method.

Blood mages or normal mages for most normal peoples both are evil things there is no way that mages could get good reputation or even neutral they are freaks for societies and even more they are dangerous so even if all templars will start burn villages they won't get even half heatred that will go for mages.

Well they are gaining power only in ferelden and thanks to the warden and well they still answer to ferelden

Rinshikai10 wrote...

Oh I agree with you on that
Angrywolves, it is very possible that exiled Dwarves may help the
Templars find lyrium. They may help all the factions weather its
Justinia, Lambert, Fiona or others. I'm betting they will expect payment
though.

And from where fiona will get money well i don't think that mages can turn rock into gold in this setting

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 13 décembre 2013 - 07:25 .

[Rinshikai10]

@TheKomanderShepard

I believe that you are overestimating the Templar reputation. If word spreads that they slaughtered villages without cause, then its going to come back to haunt the order as a whole regardless if it was just a small fraction of them. If Templars slaughtered my village, but I survived I would spread the word that the Templars killed my village. I doubt as a commoner I'm going to know the difference between the Red Templars and the normal ones.

While Justinia may have the money to get lyrium from the Dwarves, she hasn't shown that she has the best management skills. If she can't force the Dwarves to only trade with the Chantry, then they may look to other groups for business opportunities. Like their Grey Warden allies in Amaranthine.

While Mages are not universally loved by the masses, we get one or two that is see in a good light due to there actions, like Anders helping refugees for free in darktown, before he lost control.

I have no evidence to back this up, but I theorize that Fiona may still have connections to the Grey Wardens.

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 13 décembre 2013 - 01:15 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

@TheKomanderShepard

I believe that you are overestimating the Templar reputation. If word spreads that they slaughtered villages without cause, then its going to come back to haunt the order as a whole regardless if it was just a small fraction of them. If Templars slaughtered my village, but I survived I would spread the word that the Templars killed my village. I doubt as a commoner I'm going to know the difference between the Red Templars and the normal ones.

While Justinia may have the money to get lyrium from the Dwarves, she hasn't shown that she has the best management skills. If she can't force the Dwarves to only trade with the Chantry, then they may look to other groups for business opportunities. Like their Grey Warden allies in Amaranthine.

While Mages are not universally loved by the masses, we get one or two that is see in a good light due to there actions, like Anders helping refugees for free in darktown, before he lost control.

I have no evidence to back this up, but I theorize that Fiona may still have connections to the Grey Wardens.

normal templars will quickly separate themselves from red templars in eyes of public i will say that Hitler had good reputation peoples are dumb we can't go two steps without hearing word "maker" societes are pretty much brainwashed into stupid following chantry and templars are part of chantry. So templars will end as heroes and red templar as monster. 

She don't have to force to trade only with chantry as i said we have only four groups intrested in lyrium niether can have monopol now only thing is whether templars can buy it if not chantry can use that. 

Well anders was "hero" because he was useful for peoples who had nothing (fereldens in kirkwall) and that not lasted long because later he had run and hide and anders had justice who protected him from demons pretty much 97 % mages were turned into demons or blood mages in the end. 

Her connetctions won't help her in any way wardens are from sociopaths to the unfettered at best except for a few individuals like alistair and i very doubt that grey warden will help her in name of friendship considering that most of them would burn friends if that mean advantage  

[Rinshikai10]

Once again when it comes to the Templars separating themselves from the Red Templars, I have my doubts that the average commoner it going to be able to tell the difference. They'll see an armored warrior with the sword of mercy on there chest, which will likely group all the Templars together, just as Mages are grouped together. (guilty by association seems to be common place in Thedas) As early as Act 1 in DA2 we here from Cullen that the Templars reputation has falling over the years. Now people are as likely slam the door in their face, as offer them a bed. Showing that they are not shown as heroes as often as you make them out to be.

If Justinia can't keep the Lyruim trade under the control of the Chantry, I'm guessing that the Dwarves will look to others, such as Tevinter, or the Grey Wardens. At this point I don't believe that the Templars, or Circle Mages will have enough in terms of money to get Lyrium from legal sources or from smugglers. There is no way that they will get it for free.

[Angrywolves]

eh, don't underestimate how resourceful people can be when they're desperate enough.
We know that it's possible to build a forcefield and leave it at a location where it can be triggered with a key (Honnleath).I am sure nobles would pay for something like that in their house or castle.
Mages may have other things magically they can do that they can sell.
As for Templars, they've had little or no supervision for years, so who knows what they managed to steal and keep over the years or what secrets they can use for blackmail or extortion purposes.

[MisterJB]

It is entirely possible Cullen was referring to the Templars in Kirkwall only where they have a complicated story both before and after Meredith became the Knight-Commander.

In "Asunder", the townsfolk of Orlais tried to lynch a group of mages and were surprised when the Templar accompanying them raised her sword against both them and the mages which suggest that the common people of Orlais have a better opinion of Templars than they do of mages.

This hypothesis is supported by "Codex Entry: The Mage Underground." which was written by Cullen himself.

"Every Circle in Thedas suffers from individual mages who rebel and attempt to flee. These apostates are usually found and returned to the Circle or mercifully killed if they have fallen to demonic temptation. Until now, I have never served anywhere that the populace does not fully cooperate in hunting these rebels.

Here in Kirkwall, citizens actually help rebel mages escape."

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well i think that you you do not understand power of indoctrination thedas is dominated by chantry religion and many
especially pesants are devout and templars are part of it they will quickly be speparated from normal templars and peoples will belive as they belive in maker and everything what chantry says.Well try tell christian that Jesus was mass murderer even if he was you will meet that same reaction.

And again we have only four groups that can be intrested in lyrium it would be stupid for grey wardens to buy lyrium when they have no use in it.Tevinter can buy something but not everything so others like divine can buy something as well.And as i said templars are heroes for world now and before they can get dotations. 


Deal with that angry mages are mostly useless and unpredictable dangerous for everything around no one sane will hire something that in one second may turn into unstoppable monster destroying everything around.     
About templars maybe some but i doubt that they are stupid to this point but hey they didn't show to this point that they have brain so...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 14 décembre 2013 - 08:42 .

[Angrywolves]

don't be so sure.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Angrywolves wrote...

don't be so sure.

who and about what?

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 14 décembre 2013 - 08:50 .

[Wulfram]

I don't get the impression that Templars are super-popular, but they're probably more so than mages.

But cutting themselves off from the Chantry will hurt their standing

[Angrywolves]

this:

Deal with that angry mages are mostly useless and unpredictable dangerous for everything around no one sane will hire something that in one second may turn into unstoppable monster destroying everything around.

Someone would hire them.

[Karlone123]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't get the impression that Templars are super-popular, but they're probably more so than mages.

But cutting themselves off from the Chantry will hurt their standing

Then they are no longer the Templars of the Chantry and more so vigilantes who I expect to be clashing with quite a bit whether we share their views or not.

Modifié par Karlone123, 14 décembre 2013 - 09:18 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't get the impression that Templars are super-popular, but they're probably more so than mages.

But cutting themselves off from the Chantry will hurt their standing

Chantry is major religion well only one in thedas we can't go through 2 streets without hearing word "maker" and they are military force of that religion and well punch in the face heated group of peoples they are popular and will be idealized by the people see what chivalries do in orleis but still are popular...

And well and now they are only one will hunt on mages and well abomnations and i can bet that more than 50 % will be abomnations at least should be if most mages couldn't handle living in circles without bi*** how life is terrible and start turning into abomnations with slightest excuse now in war and veil torn they should turn abomnation one after another...

Angrywolves wrote...

this:

Deal with that angry
mages are mostly useless and unpredictable dangerous for everything
around no one sane will hire something that in one second may turn into
unstoppable monster destroying everything around.

Someone would hire them.

Well idiot or crazy guy well i think yes someone sane not rly here you have quote
"There is no profit to be made in the world's destruction. It is bad for business." 

[Angrywolves]

Buit people still think they can profit and somehow escape the destruction.

smiles.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Angrywolves wrote...

Buit people still think they can profit and somehow escape the destruction.

smiles.

they are called idiots at least in that case

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Forgive me, I haven't read this whole thread, half of it at least.

My impression of Justina is a Divine that upholds the teachings of Andraste and I think she does want reform for the mages allowing them greater freedom, yet still under the control of the Chantry. This is the way that I see her. I don't believe she murdered Beatrix, I think she was part of the inner circle of Beatrix's close friends or one of her caregivers. Thus she had Beatrix's ear that reforms for mages was needed and maybe the attempts in DOTS might not have happened.

I don't believe she is either pro-mage or pro-Templar but pro-chantry. She has a duty to each group and the public in general for the religious guidance of the Church as a whole so everyone does follow the teachings of Andraste, which I imagine is to each Divine's interpretation.

I think the situation in Kirkwall was if the reformists had taken Kirkwall she was going to send an exalted march against them. Then Anders takes the situation out of everyone's hands; I'm under the impression an exalted march was called regardless and this is why Leliana is now seen as a Seeker with Cassandra at the end of DA2.

Beatrix and Dorthea both had to have been getting some really wild reports out of Kirkwall and Starkhaven both. She has to know that their are fanatics in the Templars as well as within the Mage Fraternities.

I also agree with a poster above Leliana should have investigated the gallows and what was happening within all of Kirkwall, not just on the reformists. It doesn't make sense to me she just wants the Grand Cleric saved and for her to get out, unless she was going to go ahead and call an exalted march regardless and send in the seekers to restore order all the way around and she wanted the Grand Cleric saved to be her eyes and ears on the ground to be in charge when the march occurred.

That being said, wasn't it her idea (in Asunder) for all First Enchanters to come together for their meeting to prepare a platform to present to the Divine on what changes/reforms they wanted, she was going to consider their requests. This meeting was in the White Spire. It was the Lord Seeker who went against the Divine's wishes and he tried to murder all of the First Enchanters. Justina didn't order all the mages murdered in Asunder. She found out what the Lord Seeker planned and helped many mages escape by sending Leliana to help many of them escape. Which was: Rhys, Evangline, Wynne, (who later dies), Fiona, and Rhy's friend who was in on the mage revolt and was part of the plot to kill the divine in the opening of the book Asunder. She knew what the Lord Seeker was going to do would led the circles into full revolt, which did happen.

The reason all the circles knew was the mages had some type of listening/seeing device where all the circles of Thedas knew what had happened and they all rebelled because they knew the truth.

The Lord Seeker didn't want any reforms. The Divine couldn't be allowed reforms for mages to have control of themselves, he felt they would become like the mages in Trevinter, thus he broke the Templars away. Asunder ends with Cole sitting on the Lord Seeker's chest and I'm going to assume that Cole kills him. We still don't know if Cole did or not. I'm still not clear if Cole is just a spirit that Rhy's controls if he is real or not or just a fade demon of some kind. Or a person within the fade.

My assumption and it's only an assumption is that Cole has always been our Warden that the Chantry kidnapped because they like everyone else wants to know why you are alive at the end of DAO if you are. The Wardens in the Anderfels are pro-chantry or this is what I thought.

[SgtSteel91]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
My assumption and it's only an assumption is that Cole has always been our Warden that the Chantry kidnapped because they like everyone else wants to know why you are alive at the end of DAO if you are. The Wardens in the Anderfels are pro-chantry or this is what I thought.

It may be an assumption, but it sort of falls on its face if the Warden made The Ultimate Sacrifice.

[dragonflight288]

I think it would be cool if Lambert is possessed by Cole in Inquisition, and suffers from duality the same way Anders did. He would make an interesting boss, a guy who half the time supports mages, and the other half wants to kill them, but can't reveal himself to his former allies because he would be killed due to his own possession.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I think it would be cool if Lambert is possessed by Cole in Inquisition, and suffers from duality the same way Anders did. He would make an interesting boss, a guy who half the time supports mages, and the other half wants to kill them, but can't reveal himself to his former allies because he would be killed due to his own possession.

The more I think on it, that seems to be making more sense. If he had only killed Lambert, why take the body with him? There would be no reason to. He must have possessed Lambert.

[Angrywolves]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Buit people still think they can profit and somehow escape the destruction.

smiles.

they are called idiots at least in that case

We've had two world wars due to idiots.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
My assumption and it's only an assumption is that Cole has always been our Warden that the Chantry kidnapped because they like everyone else wants to know why you are alive at the end of DAO if you are. The Wardens in the Anderfels are pro-chantry or this is what I thought.

It may be an assumption, but it sort of falls on its face if the Warden made The Ultimate Sacrifice.

Easy fix, any warden can pick up where you/I left off.  This is what the Orlesian Warden does in DA:A, he/she takes your decisions and carries them forward. If a warden is dead then perhaps this is the spirit that Rhy's is able to control being Cole.  Your warden if dead is in the fade.  Your body is in Weisshaupt or suppose to be.  

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 15 décembre 2013 - 12:05 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I think it would be cool if Lambert is possessed by Cole in Inquisition, and suffers from duality the same way Anders did. He would make an interesting boss, a guy who half the time supports mages, and the other half wants to kill them, but can't reveal himself to his former allies because he would be killed due to his own possession.

I'd love to see this, truly wicked. 

[Angrywolves]

might be too contrived.