1605 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Angrywolves wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Buit people still think they can profit and somehow escape the destruction.

smiles.

they are called idiots at least in that case

We've had two world wars due to idiots.

Rather because of desire of power than that and mages won't give you that at best they will recive it for themselves not for you.


Besides i don't see any connection between cole and the warden

[Rinshikai10]

@ElvaliaRavenHart

You make some good points.

I'm not sure that the Anders Wardens are Pro-Chantry though. The Chantry faith is dominate, and I bet that many of them are followers of that faith, but at the same time it sounds like they are some of the most ruthless of the Order, (Riordan) From what WOT says, its sounds like they are moving against the King, and possibly the Chantry due to the Makers law being the Kings law.

I do agree that Justinia is Pro-Chantry, however, I don't believe that will help her. With both groups leaving, the authority she may have had is now gone. Forcing her to look for individuals with influence that was earned, rather then given.

[dragonflight288]

Angrywolves wrote...

might be too contrived.

My idea? Why? It's already well-establised that non-mages are in just as much danger of possession as actual mages are when they encounter spirits outside the Fade, and Cole is most certainly an enigma and is probably capable of possession.

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

might be too contrived.

My idea? Why? It's already well-establised that non-mages are in just as much danger of possession as actual mages are when they encounter spirits outside the Fade, and Cole is most certainly an enigma and is probably capable of possession.

Why cole would want possess old man i would rather bet on young mage and then cole (spirit demon or whatever) already possessed cole body right? 

[dragonflight288]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

might be too contrived.

My idea? Why? It's already well-establised that non-mages are in just as much danger of possession as actual mages are when they encounter spirits outside the Fade, and Cole is most certainly an enigma and is probably capable of possession.

Why cole would want possess old man i would rather bet on young mage and then cole (spirit demon or whatever) already possessed cole body right? 

As a way to punish him for how he treated his friend Rhys? To force Lambert to have to live with the consequences of his decisions, but not as leader of the templars and seekers who broke away from the Chantry but as one of the hunted? Or because he was a skilled fighter and one of the leaders of the templars and seekers. Or any other number of reasons.

What Cole is is a mystery, even to him. He doesn't fall under the definition of a normal spirit or demon since he doesn't embody a virtue or a vice and has all the complex emotions people do, but is clearly not a mortal either.

[Angrywolves]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

might be too contrived.

My idea? Why? It's already well-establised that non-mages are in just as much danger of possession as actual mages are when they encounter spirits outside the Fade, and Cole is most certainly an enigma and is probably capable of possession.

eh maybe.But we haven't seen much of that. We've seen more demons taking human form such as Gaxkang.
The possessed people seem to have been mages or templars for the most part.:innocent:

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Is there any way we can start a "thanks justina" meme?

[Sir JK]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

@ElvaliaRavenHart

You make some good points.

I'm not sure that the Anders Wardens are Pro-Chantry though. The Chantry faith is dominate, and I bet that many of them are followers of that faith, but at the same time it sounds like they are some of the most ruthless of the Order, (Riordan) From what WOT says, its sounds like they are moving against the King, and possibly the Chantry due to the Makers law being the Kings law.

I recall reading somewhere (don't remember where) that Anderfels is the only country in the world where the Warden's as a rule recruit more than one mage at a time. That could provide the Anders libertarians with an easy way out of the chantry and thus form a strong libertarian faction in Weisshaupt.

I do agree that Justinia is Pro-Chantry, however, I don't believe that will help her. With both groups leaving, the authority she may have had is now gone. Forcing her to look for individuals with influence that was earned, rather then given.

I wouldn't count out Justinia and the Chantry until we get confirmation she's powerless. Templars and mages are probably far from her only assets. Not chained by the desires of templars and mages might very well free her influence to make her powerbase much more powerful.

[Hellion Rex]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Is there any way we can start a "thanks justina" meme?

I shall spearhead the movement. Because the mages definitely owe her a big thanks for helping us escape!!!

[Angrywolves]

Justinia needs to be replaced. I hope the Inquisitor had the opportunity.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Cool. L3t m3 start f1rst.

[Hellion Rex]

Angrywolves wrote...

Justinia needs to be replaced. I hope the Inquisitor had the opportunity.

Nope. She stays. Shrugs.

[Hellion Rex]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Cool. L3t m3 start f1rst.

Well, she wasn't at fault for Anders blowing up the Chantry so........

[Angrywolves]

eluvianix wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Justinia needs to be replaced. I hope the Inquisitor had the opportunity.

Nope. She stays. Shrugs.

Nope.She goes.Shrugs.

[Rinshikai10]

Sir JK wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

@ElvaliaRavenHart

You make some good points.

I'm not sure that the Anders Wardens are Pro-Chantry though. The Chantry faith is dominate, and I bet that many of them are followers of that faith, but at the same time it sounds like they are some of the most ruthless of the Order, (Riordan) From what WOT says, its sounds like they are moving against the King, and possibly the Chantry due to the Makers law being the Kings law.

I recall reading somewhere (don't remember where) that Anderfels is the only country in the world where the Warden's as a rule recruit more than one mage at a time. That could provide the Anders libertarians with an easy way out of the chantry and thus form a strong libertarian faction in Weisshaupt.

I do agree that Justinia is Pro-Chantry, however, I don't believe that will help her. With both groups leaving, the authority she may have had is now gone. Forcing her to look for individuals with influence that was earned, rather then given.

I wouldn't count out Justinia and the Chantry until we get confirmation she's powerless. Templars and mages are probably far from her only assets. Not chained by the desires of templars and mages might very well free her influence to make her powerbase much more powerful.

Oh, I agree that she will have other assets to work with, an example being the bards. However, with the Civil War going, I'm betting that most of them will being working for Celene or Duke whats his name.

I then wonder what other assets she has.

Any thoughts?

If you ever find that info about the Anderfels, let me know.

[Angrywolves]

Duke Gaspard.

[ChaosMorning]

On another Divine Justinia note - do you think, if she is in DAI, that she'll have a different VA?

It annoyed me to no end that Dorothea and Marjolaine shared a voice actress in Leliana's Song - I just couldn't hear Dorothea and not think of Marjolaine. It was worse than Riordan and Stroud sharing the same VA. I mean, really, a few different French VA's would've been nice - given the whole "Orlais" setting though, I imagine that we'll have a plethora of accents and rats that squeak with funny accents too.

But yes - Justinia should get a new VA.

[Sir JK]

Rinshikai10 wrote...


Oh, I agree that she will have other assets to work with, an example being the bards. However, with the Civil War going, I'm betting that most of them will being working for Celene or Duke whats his name.

I then wonder what other assets she has.

Any thoughts?

If you ever find that info about the Anderfels, let me know.

I don't think she has the bards. She has Leliana, yes, but not the bards as a whole.

She does however, have the chantry. Which, loss of templars or no, still has considerable wealth, considerable contacts and a representative in every village and city from Darsmuid to Mont-de-Glace, from Gwaren to Hossberg. That's nothing to shake one's head at.

Unless the loss has left her bypassed by the grand clerics, it's still entirely possible that she's more powerful than the templars and/or mages.

That said... this does not mean she can do as she pleases with that power. Huge organisations need to spend extraordinary amounts of effort just keeping itself together usually.

[Rinshikai10]

You make a fair point Sir JK, the Chantry contacts and representatives across Thedas could be a valuable asset. One point I would have to bring up though is her supposed rivals within the Chantry itself. With the Chantry losing control of the Circles, I can see some of the more zealot Mothers and Grand Clerics using this failure as a justification for removing her from power.

If she did have more power then either group, why is she looking for the Warden and Hawke? This gives me the impression that she has no influence over the two groups, and is desperate to gain help from those that do.

Just my opinion.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

@ElvaliaRavenHart

You make some good points.

I'm not sure that the Anders Wardens are Pro-Chantry though. The Chantry faith is dominate, and I bet that many of them are followers of that faith, but at the same time it sounds like they are some of the most ruthless of the Order, (Riordan) From what WOT says, its sounds like they are moving against the King, and possibly the Chantry due to the Makers law being the Kings law.

I do agree that Justinia is Pro-Chantry, however, I don't believe that will help her. With both groups leaving, the authority she may have had is now gone. Forcing her to look for individuals with influence that was earned, rather then given.

Ok, I found it. I knew that I read this somewhere.  My copy of the Dragon Age Collector's Edition for Origins walkthrough had this to say about the peoples of the Anderfels in regards to them being very devout from page 348.

"Anders are a poor people who ive in a devastated land of vast, stark steppes, though their proud culture remains, and they are likely the most pious followers of the Chantry in Thedas, praying for a day when they are released from the clutches of the blights"  

This is in regards to those living in the Anders as a collective whole including the Grey Wardens main fortress being there.  The Grey Wardens there have the same political power as the barons that live in those areas and the Grey Wardens there are regarded as a military force.  The Anders also still face the same issue as the dwavern kingdoms of constantly fighting darkspawn.  Many outside of the Anders don't know of this.  According to the other few paragraphs. 

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

You make a fair point Sir JK, the Chantry contacts and representatives across Thedas could be a valuable asset. One point I would have to bring up though is her supposed rivals within the Chantry itself. With the Chantry losing control of the Circles, I can see some of the more zealot Mothers and Grand Clerics using this failure as a justification for removing her from power.

If she did have more power then either group, why is she looking for the Warden and Hawke? This gives me the impression that she has no influence over the two groups, and is desperate to gain help from those that do.

Just my opinion.

Yes, why is she looking for the Warden and Hawke?  She knowns from Leliana that the Warden seems to have a great deal of influence and maybe she knows fanatics within the Templar order are going to go after the Wardens as a whole.  Especially after what Anders did and if you made Anders a Grey Warden and if you help him kill Rylok.  Which I always do.  It recently has bothered me that Rylok was with the King or Queen when they come to the Vigil.

I imagine the Divine wants to find Hawke because he/she was there when actual events happened in Kirkwall.  Cassandra does say the Divine doesn't want a war and many others don't either and they want  to find these two individuals to see what they have to say on the matters and if they can help steem the tide of war, possibly work with the Inquisitor.  The Warden and Hawke will be able to get into places that the Inquisitor might not want to barge into and is hoping for cooperation instead and good example of this would be Orzammar and the lyrium trade. 

If it is true the Anderfel Wardens are devout then I'd say they would go along with the Divine.  Which would also give her another military force besides Templars who have remained faithful to the Chantry.   If the Divine gets the Wardens on her side because Leliana being acquainted with the Warden, then she will have a military force at her disposal. 

If I was the First Warden and the Divine wanted my help, then I'm afraid all of her Templars will have to become Wardens as well    but this is just me if I was the First Warden placing them under my domain and rule, not hers.      Templars under my watch wouldn't have to suck down lyrium unless they wanted too.  Alistair being  a Templar proved you don't need lyrium to use Templar talents.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 17 décembre 2013 - 02:05 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Buit people still think they can profit and somehow escape the destruction.

smiles.

they are called idiots at least in that case

We've had two world wars due to idiots.

Rather because of desire of power than that and mages won't give you that at best they will recive it for themselves not for you.


Besides i don't see any connection between cole and the warden

There is a possible connection to Cole and the Warden, or I think so at least.  

Until you get to the very end of Asunder you just think Cole is a real person that Rhys tries to help or is a person who has died and doesn't realize it.  Lambert 's use of the Litany of Andralla does send the Cole who actually died in the dungeons back to the fade.  

Then we get right down to the last few pages and it goes into how when the real Cole died in the dungeons of the White Spire there was another person in the cell with him.  This other person is the one who witnessed the abuse that Cole suffered at the hands of the Templars right under the Divine's nose in her own city. The person in the cell with Cole decided to fight his way out of the cell and this person got to Lambert and is now the one sitting on Lambert's chest. This is not the same person who was the actual Cole throughout the whole of Asunder. I didn't catch this at first when I read the book the first time.  This person decided to take on Cole's persona when they decided to escape and went after Lambert aka The Lord Seeker.

I'm thinking and have always thought that the other person in the cell with the real Cole who actually died was my Warden who has disappeared.  If any of my Wardens had witnessed this and been in that cell with the real Cole he would have fought his way out and gotten to Lambert.  Especially if the Templars also tortured and abused me The Warden.  My thoughts are based on a Warden who did recruit Anders.  The Templars do infiltrate the Vigil after Awakening to try to get to Anders again.  There used to be a link to Anders backstory just before DA2 was released on the DA2 official website.  Anders and Justice merge at this time and Anders kills everyone I think involved and he runs away from the Wardens to Kirkwall.  All of this happens when The Warden is on the mission in GOA.  The warden goes on to WH if alive or the Orlesian Warden can hunt Morrigan down.  We are told at the end of DA2 that the Warden is actually missing?  So a Warden's disapperance could be due to the Chantry kidnapping him/her.  

If the chantry finds out how you actual survived  the killing of the Arch Demon regardless if you recruit Anders or not they might still kidnap you.  Especially if you are a live warden who allowed an old god to be born back into thw world.  The Orlesian Warden also disappears he/she may/maynot be in Orlais.  If in Orlais he/she could be in the dungeon of the White Spire and witnessed the death of the real Cole.

The Orleasian Warden maybe have found out about Morrigan's offer.  The chantry will not be please to discover the possibility of the Dark Ritual performed or not.

[Angrywolves]

uh don't think so.

[Rinshikai10]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

You make a fair point Sir JK, the Chantry contacts and representatives across Thedas could be a valuable asset. One point I would have to bring up though is her supposed rivals within the Chantry itself. With the Chantry losing control of the Circles, I can see some of the more zealot Mothers and Grand Clerics using this failure as a justification for removing her from power.

If she did have more power then either group, why is she looking for the Warden and Hawke? This gives me the impression that she has no influence over the two groups, and is desperate to gain help from those that do.

Just my opinion.

Yes, why is she looking for the Warden and Hawke?  She knowns from Leliana that the Warden seems to have a great deal of influence and maybe she knows fanatics within the Templar order are going to go after the Wardens as a whole.  Especially after what Anders did and if you made Anders a Grey Warden and if you help him kill Rylok.  Which I always do.  It recently has bothered me that Rylok was with the King or Queen when they come to the Vigil.

I imagine the Divine wants to find Hawke because he/she was there when actual events happened in Kirkwall.  Cassandra does say the Divine doesn't want a war and many others don't either and they want  to find these two individuals to see what they have to say on the matters and if they can help steem the tide of war, possibly work with the Inquisitor.  The Warden and Hawke will be able to get into places that the Inquisitor might not want to barge into and is hoping for cooperation instead and good example of this would be Orzammar and the lyrium trade. 

If it is true the Anderfel Wardens are devout then I'd say they would go along with the Divine.  Which would also give her another military force besides Templars who have remained faithful to the Chantry.   If the Divine gets the Wardens on her side because Leliana being acquainted with the Warden, then she will have a military force at her disposal. 

If I was the First Warden and the Divine wanted my help, then I'm afraid all of her Templars will have to become Wardens as well    but this is just me if I was the First Warden placing them under my domain and rule, not hers.      Templars under my watch wouldn't have to suck down lyrium unless they wanted too.  Alistair being  a Templar proved you don't need lyrium to use Templar talents.

In all honesty, I don't believe that the Anders really care about what happens in other nations. I remember reading the Anderfels codex, which says that the plight they face is easily ignored by other nations due to who remote they are. (In DAO Riordan, who has been to the Anderfels, says the wardens there are cold and don't care about the rest of the world.)

Even if Leliana did travel with the Warden, I have my doubts that that will hold much leverage. Being on good terms with one wardens, doesn't mean she will be on good terms with the Order as a whole.

To be blunt, I believe that if Orlais or Justinia tried to ask for aid from the Anderfels, they would let the Empire fall.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Possibly, I do remember Riordan saying this. It could have been that one of the other Wardens in the Anderfels did something to Riordan to give him this opinion. We have no way of knowing this. But, the reason for their attitude in the Anderfels is that they still riddled with the darkspawn problem and no country comes to their aid.

In regards to the Chantry if you recruit Anders they do come at him again. They make their move once the Warden Commander goes to GOA. If I was the First Warden, this would have really ticked me off that they tried to infiltrate one my Warden Outposts. Rylock in DAA does make the comment that many Templars feel that the Wardens are just a haven for apostate mages to be free from the Chantry and to hide behind being a Warden. So many fanatics within the Templars see the Wardens as a problem.