1605 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir JK]

I think it's tied to the rumours that she's supposed to die in the beginning. But given that they're stressing the distinction between the two, I'm not really inclined to believe it.

[Wulfram]

We've got Cassandra as part of the party, and a red-headed woman who might be Leliana turning up in concept art, both of whom are connected to the Divine. And the Inquisition needs some sort of backer, really.

It's possible that Justinia's policies will be abandoned by the Chantry, or that the Chantry will lack the leadership to carry them out, and that Leliana and Cassandra are thus left trying to fulfil her goals independently, and thus turn to the Inquisitor. But that's all speculation on very shaky foundations.

[Banxey]

Rinshikai10 wrote...
Its alright, now I wonder if Celene would be on good terms with Justinia or not.
At this point I don't know if the University she established would go against the Divines personal views. Justinia seems deeply religious, yet she also has some progressive views.
It makes me wonder how she would see a system of education that differs from the Chantry.

I think the implication in Asunder was that Celene's opposition saw causing problems within the Chantry as a way to undermine Celene's rule. I don't think Celene and Justinia are allies, but I think they are close enough in ideals that they could find common ground. The problem this presents though is if they allied themselves too closely, bringing down one could bring down the other. And I think neither are prepared to take that risk.

Rinshikai10 wrote...

This theory going around of Justinia being the Inquisition founder seems a little far fetched to me. I can understand that her fans what to interact with her, but wasn't it said at some point that the Inquisition will be working in opposition of the Chantry?

I thought I saw a video of one of the Dev's talking about this right after the first trailer came out.

Though I could be wrong.

Any thoughts?

I have seen a couple of videos which state that the Inquisition is created in opposition to the Chantry. It is unclear as to whether or not they meant Justinia's Chantry, or the dissenters Chantry. 

Cassandra also apparently becomes disillusioned, which I think suggests something is going to happen within the Chantry.

“To some degree, I think that Cassandra undergoes probably the biggest transformative arc of any character in Dragon Age II,” Laidlaw says. Cassandra has always supported the Chantry, but after talking to Varric and seeing both sides of the issue, her opinions may change. “In a lot of ways, I think she represents the opportunity to grow by understanding [and not] getting increasingly lost in the noise of Dragon Age’s rising chaos,” Laidlaw says.

I think it's possible Justinia might be taken out of the equation early on. Which is complete speculation, of course. But kind of sad (for me anyway) if it's true. I would have liked to deal with her.

Modifié par Banxey2, 08 février 2014 - 10:01 .

[Rinshikai10]

I believe that it would be a waste just to kill Justinia right at the start of Inquisition. Why build her up in Asunder only to have her killed early on? She did play a key role in the events that lead to the Mage/Templar War.

I hope that when more info is revealed we learn more about the situation with the Chantry.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The Inquisition is not a puppet of the Chantry or the Divine. Mike Laidlaw and Mark Darrah stressed this during a GameInformer interview where the word they used I believe were :-

1) "You are not the puppet of the church. If anything you are the pucky upstart who everyone has to respect but don't want to"
2) "You can be extremely pro mage if you want to. You are not part of the Chantry or anything. We are giving the choice to the player"
3) "You ultimately seize and control the power directly. You are a sole survivor of the Tear. There are some things which you will do very early in the game to allow you to found the Inquisition."

So I think we will see the Divine in the prologue, perhaps being in a meeting with other parties / groups such as Templars, Mages, Wardens, Seekers to try and solve the problem. You will somehow be there and then the Veil is torn, demons pour through it, you are the only survivor. There will be doubts about you but the fact that you survive + some things you do in the prologue will enable you to found the Inquisition.

Most probably the Divine will die.

[Rinshikai10]

@Wulfram

If we are pro Chantry I can see us getting support from them, yet with the whole Chantry possibility falling apart from within I can see Grand Clerics divided on how they should proceed.

@All

I would imagine that even if Justinia wanted to help, there would be very little she could do. While some don't believe that the loss of a large number of Templars/Seekers will be the end of her,its still a dangerous blow to be given.

Losing the ability to impose her views means she is now walking a tightrope where even the slightest mistake could be fatal. Both for her and the Chantry.

As its been said, Cassandra may have left her after having doubts after interrogating Varric. Which leaves her with Leliana, and very little else I can imagine.

If Leliana is suppose to embody faith (I think some Dev's said that about her) it would be interesting to see her question it. Sort like Cullen did in the third act of DA2. Is she fighting for the Maker or simply for the whims of a mortal woman.

While I am a fan of Leliana, I have been questioning her motives since DA2. Was she really who we thought she was, or was it all an act?

Any thoughts

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 10 février 2014 - 06:51 .

[Rinshikai10]

The bit of info from the character kits makes it seem that Cassandra is still connected to Justinia in some way.

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 21 février 2014 - 01:39 .

[LobselVith8]

The bit of info from the character kits makes it seem that Cassandra is still connected to Justinia in some way.

 

Wouldn't that be an issue for a protagonist who opposes the Chantry of Andraste? If Cassandra is a mandatory companion, then I think it would make more sense if she was neutral, rather than working for Divine Justina V. I certainly don't think it would make sense to accept the aid of someone who you think would stab you in the back, which is plausible for people from certain backgrounds who have had antagonistic and violent relations with the Andrastian Chantry (like the Dalish, to cite one example).

[Sir JK]

Wouldn't that be an issue for a protagonist who opposes the Chantry of Andraste? If Cassandra is a mandatory companion, then I think it would make more sense if she was neutral, rather than working for Divine Justina V. I certainly don't think it would make sense to accept the aid of someone who you think would stab you in the back, which is plausible for people from certain backgrounds who have had antagonistic and violent relations with the Andrastian Chantry (like the Dalish, to cite one example).

 

Then again, maybe one does not have the luxury to chose.

If Cassandra comes with a whole lot of resources, manpower and a writ telling you that you got the Divine's authority to use her and her men however you wish to fix the veil tears and you couldn't possibly start without her then you simply have to keep your enemies closer than your friends. Now, don't you?

 

On the other hand... that wouldn't work terribly well with the rumours that the Chantry won't be that happy to see you. So Cassandra is probably acting on her own initiative (assuming she's an early companion). If she's loyal to the Chantry (not unfeasible) then it's probably to what it's supposed to be rather than what it is.

[Xilizhra]

Then again, maybe one does not have the luxury to chose.

If Cassandra comes with a whole lot of resources, manpower and a writ telling you that you got the Divine's authority to use her and her men however you wish to fix the veil tears and you couldn't possibly start without her then you simply have to keep your enemies closer than your friends. Now, don't you?

 

On the other hand... that wouldn't work terribly well with the rumours that the Chantry won't be that happy to see you. So Cassandra is probably acting on her own initiative (assuming she's an early companion). If she's loyal to the Chantry (not unfeasible) then it's probably to what it's supposed to be rather than what it is.

So... what is it "supposed to be," in that case?

[LobselVith8]

Then again, maybe one does not have the luxury to chose.

If Cassandra comes with a whole lot of resources, manpower and a writ telling you that you got the Divine's authority to use her and her men however you wish to fix the veil tears and you couldn't possibly start without her then you simply have to keep your enemies closer than your friends. Now, don't you?

 

On the other hand... that wouldn't work terribly well with the rumours that the Chantry won't be that happy to see you. So Cassandra is probably acting on her own initiative (assuming she's an early companion). If she's loyal to the Chantry (not unfeasible) then it's probably to what it's supposed to be rather than what it is.

 

Isn't that effectively forcing the player to side with the Chantry, which is exactly what the developers said won't be forced upon us? I'm just saying that I don't see how railroading the player into working for (or with) the Chantry would be a good idea. I'd rather see the option to work with (or for) the Chantry to be optional for players (since I know some people would want to work with the organization).

 

I can see some logical problems with a representative of the Chantry offering to work with a main character from a background that distrusts the Chantry of Andraste - possibly the Vashoth Inquisitor, an autonomous Circle mage, or a Dalish mage, given the schism that lead to the loss of the Dales and the criminalization of the elven pantheon by the Chantry.

[dragonflight288]

Cassandra may simply join up as a result of whatever causes the veil tear and she simply feels the Inquisitor is the most qualified for the job and so swears her service. 

[Mistic]

Isn't that effectively forcing the player to side with the Chantry, which is exactly what the developers said won't be forced upon us? I'm just saying that I don't see how railroading the player into working for (or with) the Chantry would be a good idea. I'd rather see the option to work with (or for) the Chantry to be optional for players (since I know some people would want to work with the organization).

 

I can see some logical problems with a representative of the Chantry offering to work with a main character from a background that distrusts the Chantry of Andraste - possibly the Vashoth Inquisitor, an autonomous Circle mage, or a Dalish mage, given the schism that lead to the loss of the Dales and the criminalization of the elven pantheon by the Chantry.

 

I don't think it will be that serious. Probably Cassandra has a lot of flexibility to work, and for the look of it she may be one of the first supporting the Inquisitor. Although we've seen the keeps, the armies and more sings of the Inquisitor's power and influence, at the beginning we won't have anything. Beggars can't be choosers... at first.

 

Also, let's go back to DA:O. Having Wynne as your companion meant that you had to support the Circle? No. Having Leliana as your companion meant that you suddenly became pro-Andrastian? No. Having Sten as your companion meant that you converted to the Qun? No.

 

They helped you because they have similar interests, mainly stopping the Blight and saving the world. Of course, in true Bioware fashion, there might be some critical points. You will have to make a decision and if it's too extreme the companion can say "Enough is enough!" and turn against you.

[Sir JK]

So... what is it "supposed to be," in that case?

 

That is a question only Cassandra could answer. Each and everyone will have their own answer. So we'll have to ask her if that's the case

 

Isn't that effectively forcing the player to side with the Chantry, which is exactly what the developers said won't be forced upon us? I'm just saying that I don't see how railroading the player into working for (or with) the Chantry would be a good idea. I'd rather see the option to work with (or for) the Chantry to be optional for players (since I know some people would want to work with the organization).

 

I can see some logical problems with a representative of the Chantry offering to work with a main character from a background that distrusts the Chantry of Andraste - possibly the Vashoth Inquisitor, an autonomous Circle mage, or a Dalish mage, given the schism that lead to the loss of the Dales and the criminalization of the elven pantheon by the Chantry.

 

Technically speaking it'd be forcing you on the Chantry. If it's a case of "Hey, here's our resources... go nuts".
But no... I don't see it as likely.

 

Mind you Lobsel... if you paint yourself too much as "won't be working with the Chantry at all" you risk realising you painted yourself into a corner from the get go.

While we might not be working for them. It's not entirely impossible we will, no matter who we are, need them or someone representing them (like say... Leliana, or a "decent" templar or possibly Cassandra). Like it or not. The Chantry has massive power. It has incredible legitimacy. And stunning wealth. Sooner or later... you'll probably need something from it.

Much like we'll probably need something from the mages. Sooner or later. No matter how much anti-mage we may want to be or not. And we'll probably have to involve ourselves in the Orlesian civil war on one level or another. Regardless of what we feel for that nation.

 

The important bit is of course to be allowed the space to have our character express that we don't like it or would prefer an alternative. Hopefully we'll get that.

[LobselVith8]

I don't think it will be that serious. Probably Cassandra has a lot of flexibility to work, and for the look of it she may be one of the first supporting the Inquisitor. Although we've seen the keeps, the armies and more sings of the Inquisitor's power and influence, at the beginning we won't have anything. Beggars can't be choosers... at first.

 

Also, let's go back to DA:O. Having Wynne as your companion meant that you had to support the Circle? No. Having Leliana as your companion meant that you suddenly became pro-Andrastian? No. Having Sten as your companion meant that you converted to the Qun? No.

 

They helped you because they have similar interests, mainly stopping the Blight and saving the world. Of course, in true Bioware fashion, there might be some critical points. You will have to make a decision and if it's too extreme the companion can say "Enough is enough!" and turn against you.

 

Wynne, Leliana, and Sten were also optional companions. My point is also about Cassandra coming to the Inquisitor as a representative of the Chantry, rather than offering aid as her own person (which is what differs from this hypothetical scenario and the potential companions of The Warden).

[LobselVith8]

Mind you Lobsel... if you paint yourself too much as "won't be working with the Chantry at all" you risk realising you painted yourself into a corner from the get go.

While we might not be working for them. It's not entirely impossible we will, no matter who we are, need them or someone representing them (like say... Leliana, or a "decent" templar or possibly Cassandra). Like it or not. The Chantry has massive power. It has incredible legitimacy. And stunning wealth. Sooner or later... you'll probably need something from it.

Much like we'll probably need something from the mages. Sooner or later. No matter how much anti-mage we may want to be or not. And we'll probably have to involve ourselves in the Orlesian civil war on one level or another. Regardless of what we feel for that nation.

 

The important bit is of course to be allowed the space to have our character express that we don't like it or would prefer an alternative. Hopefully we'll get that.

 

The developers have been painting Inquisition as a game where the player is invited to chose his (or her) allies (including citing the choice between templars and mages as one example), which is a facet that I find appealing. I like choice; it's one of the best things about New Vegas, for example. The racial options are another appealing feature that trumps the voiced protagonist aspect, which is a feature that I'm not too keen on (as I prefer silent protagonists).

 

Quite frankly, I have no problem with the Chantry being an optional ally. It's another matter entirely if my protagonist is railroaded into working for them (or with them), since we were explicitly told this wouldn't be an issue (and it was one of the issues I had with Dragon Age II). I'd much prefer if any relation with the Chantry is one of choice, rather than one that's made for us.

[Mistic]

Wynne, Leliana, and Sten were also optional companions. My point is also about Cassandra coming to the Inquisitor as a representative of the Chantry, rather than offering aid as her own person (which is what differs from this hypothetical scenario and the potential companions of The Warden).

 

I understand. However, you make the assumption that if she comes as a representative of the Chantry, it would be "effectively forcing the player to side with the Chantry". Why? One thing is working for the Chantry, and another thing working with the Chantry. The developers said once that the former won't happen, but their words don't rule out the later.

[Sir JK]

The developers have been painting Inquisition as a game where the player is invited to chose his (or her) allies (including citing the choice between templars and mages as one example), which is a facet that I find appealing. I like choice; it's one of the best things about New Vegas, for example. The racial options are another appealing feature that trumps the voiced protagonist aspect, which is a feature that I'm not too keen on (as I prefer silent protagonists).

 

Quite frankly, I have no problem with the Chantry being an optional ally. It's another matter entirely if my protagonist is railroaded into working for them (or with them), since we were explicitly told this wouldn't be an issue (and it was one of the issues I had with Dragon Age II). I'd much prefer if any relation with the Chantry is one of choice, rather than one that's made for us.

 

I know. I hope so too. But I won't hold my breath for it. Assume you will work with them at one point or another. They're too big an opportunity not to use in some way in the game. Much like the Dalish, the mages, the wardens, the Orlesian monarchy.

 

Anyways... let's steer this back to Justinia and Chantry politics. We can discuss that in other threads or in private conversations if you'd like...

[wcholcombe]

From what I have seen, read, and heard I don't think you are forced to work for the Chantry. I am even fairly certain you are able to be on frosty terms with them to a degree or possibly have them grudgingly support you for the greater good.

 

What we won't have is the Inquisition going all Napoleon and marching on Val Royeaux in an effort to put the Divine's head on a plate.

 

The inquisition will start small and get bigger. The bigger it gets the more attention it will attract.  The more attention the more of a threat it can become.  The more it becomes a threat the more people will either ally or attack it.  Will you be in conflict with elements of the chantry, sure I can see us taking care of a over important Chantry official or even a Grand Cleric who is a danger to the people, and possibly be thanked by the Divine for doing it, but again we will not march on the Grand Cathedral.

 

The Chantry will wax and wane, but throughout DA it will remain.

[wcholcombe]

Actually, after writting that last bit, there is 1 and only 1 way I can see the Inquisition moving directly against the chantry.  That is if a coup attempt imprisoned Justina and Cassandra and Liliana advise the Inquisitor to move against the Grand Clerics and restore Justina to her rightful place.  If you agree you get to attack the Grand Cathedral or wherever, if you refuse Cassandra or Lilianna leave your party-ala Allistaire if you spare Lohgain or Howe if you spare Anders.

 

Even if you were dalish or valshoth it would be more pragmatic of you to have Justina as the divine than a hard liner Grand Cleric who agrees with Lambert, as a pro mage it would be a no brainer as Justinia is definitely pro mage...just not anti circle.

[Master Warder Z_]

From what I have seen, read, and heard I don't think you are forced to work for the Chantry. I am even fairly certain you are able to be on frosty terms with them to a degree or possibly have them grudgingly support you for the greater good.

 

What we won't have is the Inquisition going all Napoleon and marching on Val Royeaux in an effort to put the Divine's head on a plate.

 

The inquisition will start small and get bigger. The bigger it gets the more attention it will attract.  The more attention the more of a threat it can become.  The more it becomes a threat the more people will either ally or attack it.  Will you be in conflict with elements of the chantry, sure I can see us taking care of a over important Chantry official or even a Grand Cleric who is a danger to the people, and possibly be thanked by the Divine for doing it, but again we will not march on the Grand Cathedral.

 

The Chantry will wax and wane, but throughout DA it will remain.

 

 

o.o It's amazing how similar our minds work when it comes to DA.

[Xilizhra]

What we won't have is the Inquisition going all Napoleon and marching on Val Royeaux in an effort to put the Divine's head on a plate.

Attero Dominatus!

 

 

 

The Chantry will wax and wane, but throughout DA it will remain.

I don't even know if the Chantry exists now. It's entirely possible that it's left in such ruins that it's unable to exert its will in any real direction.

[Sir JK]

Attero Dominatus!

 

 

 

I don't even know if the Chantry exists now. It's entirely possible that it's left in such ruins that it's unable to exert its will in any real direction.

 

If the Chantry is in that much shambles then it's all but guaranteed it'll be in the game and something you'll work a lot with. There's just so much opportunity there if that's the case.

 

Not that I see how it would be... sure... templars and mages are gone. But the priesthood is still there as far as I know. Which is the vast majority of it. The Grand Clerics, Revered Mothers and the village Chantries... no reason to suspect any of that is gone.

[Xilizhra]

If the Chantry is in that much shambles then it's all but guaranteed it'll be in the game and something you'll work a lot with. There's just so much opportunity there if that's the case.

 

Not that I see how it would be... sure... templars and mages are gone. But the priesthood is still there as far as I know. Which is the vast majority of it. The Grand Clerics, Revered Mothers and the village Chantries... no reason to suspect any of that is gone.

I'm sure village priests and the like would still be around, but there's still that story about pretty much the entirety of the Chantry's leadership being taken out by a magical explosion, so that could take care of a lot of grand clerics. Even Justinia might be dead.

[Sir JK]

I'm sure village priests and the like would still be around, but there's still that story about pretty much the entirety of the Chantry's leadership being taken out by a magical explosion, so that could take care of a lot of grand clerics. Even Justinia might be dead.

I know I hope it's not true. But it'd be a perfect set up... so I'm not even in the least reassured.

 

Still... out of a narrative perspective... the only thing more interesting than a strong Chantry is a broken Chantry. If the Chantry's leadership is completely destroyed, that's a perfect way to include it in detail... heavily involving the PC in it's inner workings and rebuilding it (and allowing the player to influence what it'll become).