1605 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No way, Meredith was already paranoid because of her past which grew to lunacy and evetually some kind of possession from the idol. She wasn't right by any means in the way she dealth with Mages.

I disagree that Thrask was soft, he wanted peace. Like 90% of Kirkwall.

Justinia isn't naive or a fool, she's trying to make a difference in a world that's been molded to hate and fear Mages, but alas, that's another topic for another time. Just my opinion though.

You're talking to TKS. Anyone who supports even the slightest notion of mages having rights are naive and stupid in his eyes.

[Banxey]

Oh please spare me kirkwall sure meredith was insane but mages were corrupted so meredith needed such methods to deal with them sadly her peoples were too soft like thrask to ended serving abomnation because of his naivety... abuses? only alrik and karras were abusing it great score corrupiton exists everywhere and you will never able to get rid off.. there is no bias mages are too dangerous and they proved that many times circles are too soft and lambert knows that...

Justinia is naive fool like elthina when situation need to take effective resources and not nice and naive fools will bring only damage she already did she caused world war when situation was in control... and sometimes sitiatuion require take stance "kill it with fire" ...

Things were so bad in Kirkwall the world was watching, but you're saying Lambert thought Meredith was handling things so he didn't bother doing his job and investigate? Sounds pretty incompetent.

As far as being naive, well any fool knows you don't put out a fire by adding more fuel. And taking a hard line against people who are already fighting because they feel persecuted is doing exactly that. But I don't expect you to agree, I've already read your "solution" in a number of other threads. And if nothing else, your dislike of Justinia makes me like her more. :-P

[TheKomandorShepard]

No way, Meredith was already paranoid because of her past which grew to lunacy and evetually some kind of possession from the idol. She wasn't right by any means in the way she dealth with Mages.

I disagree that Thrask was soft, he wanted peace. Like 90% of Kirkwall.

Justinia isn't naive or a fool, she's trying to make a difference in a world that's been molded to hate and fear Mages, but alas, that's another topic for another time. Just my opinion though.

 

As i said many times being suspicious or paranoid toward magic is healthy thing to do thats why most older/experienced follow it...

Right in what way morally it is up to you , legally she had that right practically her methods were proper to deal with mages...

of course he was soft and naive thats why he ended crushed by his allies and was helping abomnation meredith was going for peace (of course other had to deal with her sooner or later as she was insane) mages were constantly threatened not meredith...

 

Yep she is if you such idiot to let roaming free walking bombs beliving in good human nature that they will spread happiness and kindness you are an idiot she created world war because she was naive to be honest i don't even have excuse for her actions they were so stupid that i can't think about any reason behind it than naivety or mental illness so i will go with first.

 

 

 

You're talking to TKS. Anyone who supports even the slightest notion of mages having rights are naive and stupid in his eyes.

 

depends who and in what situation supports mages if that was mage i can see doing that despite that for individual mage escape would be much better option. If you are non-mage that supports walking bombs that will turn on and you will lose your forces creating world war well you are naive and stupid...
 

 

Things were so bad in Kirkwall the world was watching, but you're saying Lambert thought Meredith was handling things so he didn't bother doing his job and investigate? Sounds pretty incompetent.

As far as being naive, well any fool knows you don't put out a fire by adding more fuel. And taking a hard line against people who are already fighting because they feel persecuted is doing exactly that. But I don't expect you to agree, I've already read your "solution" in a number of other threads. And if nothing else, your dislike of Justinia makes me like her more. :-P

 

 

Meredith was doing her job nothing more there were some rumors that she was insane.Yet i would remove meredith as she was getting too dangerous for everyone like mages and replace her with someone like lambert...

 

Lambert extinguished that fire divine kindle it again. Well if you say so you can like her your call but she is dumb and naive little more to that.

[Divine Justinia V]

As i said many times being suspicious or paranoid toward magic is healthy thing to do thats why most older/experienced follow it...

Right in what way morally it is up to you , legally she had that right practically her methods were proper to deal with mages...

of course he was soft and naive thats why he ended crushed by his allies and was helping abomnation meredith was going for peace (of course other had to deal with her sooner or later as she was insane) mages were constantly threatened not meredith...

 

Yep she is if you such idiot to let roaming free walking bombs beliving in good human nature that they will spread happiness and kindness you are an idiot she created world war because she was naive to be honest i don't even have excuse for her actions they were so stupid that i can't think about any reason behind it than naivety or mental illness so i will go with first.

Uhhhh... idk where to begin or how to begin a reply to that..

BUT

I will ask you one thing, if Meredith was paranoid (for the right reasons) why did she wave off Quentin when a templar was trying to investigate him? I mean, all that paranoia and she didn't even think to look into someone that was literally summoning demons in her city?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Uhhhh... idk where to begin or how to begin a reply to that..

BUT

I will ask you one thing, if Meredith was paranoid (for the right reasons) why did she wave off Quentin when a templar was trying to investigate him? I mean, all that paranoia and she didn't even think to look into someone that was literally summoning demons in her city?

 

Hmm do you mean quentin or gascard because quentin wasn't even suspected when second was suspected by emric incorrectly (but he was still far from clear) and emric didn't found anything but still was harassing a noble so meredith had to apologize for emric.Another thing is that there was little evidence that there is serial killer and no other there he was mage. so unless meredith knew script like flemeth she couldn't know.

[Divine Justinia V]

Hmm do you mean quentin or gascard because quentin wasn't even suspected when second was suspected by emric incorrectly (but he was still far from clear) and emric didn't found anything but still was harassing a noble so meredith had to apologize for emric.Another thing is that there was little evidence that there is serial killer and no other there he was mage. so unless meredith knew script like flemeth she couldn't know.

oops, yes! Gascard sorry about that.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Meredith was doing her job nothing more there were some rumors that she was insane.Yet i would remove meredith as she was getting too dangerous for everyone like mages and replace her with someone like lambert...

Regardless of anything else, Lambert or whoever was in charge of the Seekers at the time should have removed Meredith the moment she involved herself in Kirkwall's politics by impeding the nobles from voting for a new Viscount. That is not her jurisdiction.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Regardless of anything else, Lambert or whoever was in charge of the Seekers at the time should have removed Meredith the moment she involved herself in Kirkwall's politics by impeding the nobles from voting for a new Viscount. That is not her jurisdiction.

 

And why that was problem it was beneficial for templars to have power at least would be if not that meredith was insane so for him that was good deal.Their job is protect world if we talk about magic by any means so you can think about it like grey warden power in Anderfels or in ferelden after fifth bligh...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And why that was problem it was beneficial for templars to have power at least would be if not that meredith was insane so for him that was good deal.Their job is protect world if we talk about magic by any means so you can think about it like grey warden power in Anderfels or in ferelden after fifth bligh...

Because it runs counter to the Chantry not getting involved in political affairs. The Chantry had a, while very thin, separation of Church and State, and Meredith violated that. Thus she is going against the Chantry in that respect, and thus should be reprimanded by having her command removed. It's not like she still wouldn't be the most influential person anyway, but her stopping it from happening was the problem.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Because it runs counter to the Chantry not getting involved in political affairs. The Chantry had a, while very thin, separation of Church and State, and Meredith violated that. Thus she is going against the Chantry in that respect, and thus should be reprimanded by having her command removed. It's not like she still wouldn't be the most influential person anyway, but her stopping it from happening was the problem.

 

Please it is like saying that in tevinter no one useses blood magic because it is forbidden or assassination is forbidden in orlais as well.Technically yes in practice we know that chantry plays orlesian game and supports politicaly those wo will give them more power and many other things.It is rather naive if you think that chantry isn't involved in political affairs... current divine with her assassin isn't in that matter much better.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Please it is like saying that in tevinter no one useses blood magic because it is forbidden or assassination is forbidden in orlais as well.Technically yes in practice we know that chantry plays orlesian game and supports politicaly those wo will give them more power and many other things.It is rather naive if you think that chantry isn't involved in political affairs... current divine with her assassin isn't in that matter much better.

The Free Marchers do not operate on the same terms as Orlais. And even if they did, that's like saying the Chantry is okay to stop the ascension of the next Emperor/Empress of Orlais, which btw they aren't. The may play the game, but as a player they must still follow the rules of the game. 

 

Like I said, regardless of anything else involving Meredith, her prevention of the next Viscount being chosen was a breach in her jurisdiction as Knight-Commander of the Kirkwall Templars. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Free Marchers do not operate on the same terms as Orlais. And even if they did, that's like saying the Chantry is okay to stop the ascension of the next Emperor/Empress of Orlais, which btw they aren't. The may play the game, but as a player they must still follow the rules of the game. 

 

Like I said, regardless of anything else involving Meredith, her prevention of the next Viscount being chosen was a breach in her jurisdiction as Knight-Commander of the Kirkwall Templars. 

 

But chantry does and it is about power... if they could they would but they can here they could and they did... they play game but on own rules...

 

To be honest i have to see rule that say chantry can't invole in politics it there is i will mock it as no blood magic in tevinter...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But chantry does and it is about power... if they could they would but they can here they could and they did... they play game but on own rules...

 

To be honest i have to see rule that say chantry can't invole in politics it there is i will mock it as no blood magic in tevinter...

The moment they tried that stunt in a powerful nation like Orlais is the moment the doom themselves. As a religion, they rely on the goodwill of their followers and that would rob them of that. Instead, they operate as separate but equal authorities. The key word is separate, as in the nations don't interfere in Chantry business while the Chantry doesn't interfere in the nation's business.

 

But since you are claiming the Chantry has no problem violating that, by all means provide proof of a Chantry member legally involving themselves in said affairs.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The moment they tried that stunt in a powerful nation like Orlais is the moment the doom themselves. As a religion, they rely on the goodwill of their followers and that would rob them of that. Instead, they operate as separate but equal authorities. The key word is separate, as in the nations don't interfere in Chantry business while the Chantry doesn't interfere in the nation's business.

 

But since you are claiming the Chantry has no problem violating that, by all means provide proof of a Chantry member legally involving themselves in said affairs.

 

Hmm kriwkall what they did in ferelden to got there power? chantry wants power if there will be opportunity like in kirkwall they will grab it now key word is opportunity.

 

Hmm doing something doesn't mean that something is legal example in tevinter if chantry have rule to not involve themselves they aren't doing that legaly if not well yes it is legal.In both cases they are involved.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hmm kriwkall what they did in ferelden to got there power? chantry wants power if there will be opportunity like in kirkwall they will grab it now key word is opportunity.

 

Hmm doing something doesn't mean that something is legal example in tevinter if chantry have rule to not involve themselves they aren't doing that legaly if not well yes it is legal.In both cases they are involved.  

What did the Chantry do to get power in Ferelden? I want examples.

 

And I said legally because illegal examples are supposed to be treated badly if discovered. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

What did the Chantry do to get power in Ferelden? I want examples.

 

And I said legally because illegal examples are supposed to be treated badly if discovered. 

As if i renember correctly divine supported orlais in ferelden-orlais conflcit...

 

hmm? lol why do you want illegal examples how i can say what is legal and what not as i said if chantry have rule that says "we can't invole in politics" so yeah it is illegal if not it is legal at least on chantry side.But i doubt that having assassin like divine is legal but anyway it would depend on country as well what is legal and what isn't...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As if i renember correctly divine supported orlais in ferelden-orlais conflcit...

 

hmm? lol why do you want illegal examples how i can say what is legal and what not as i said if chantry have rule that says "we can't invole in politics" so yeah it is illegal if not it is legal at least on chantry side.But i doubt that having assassin like divine is legal but anyway it would depend on country as well what is legal and what isn't...

Ferelden at the time wasn't a nation, but a territory of Orlais. And the Chantry is based in Orlais, so simple self-preservation. 

 

I want legal, not illegal. We have illegal examples, such as the Templar who hunted Anders in Awakening even though they are to leave Grey Wardens alone or Petrice's actions with the Qunari.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ferelden at the time wasn't a nation, but a territory of Orlais. And the Chantry is based in Orlais, so simple self-preservation. 

 

I want legal, not illegal. We have illegal examples, such as the Templar who hunted Anders in Awakening even though they are to leave Grey Wardens alone or Petrice's actions with the Qunari.

 

The Qunari a threat to every Nation of Thedas; Neutral Hostile or no combating them through whatever means possible is no sin.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ferelden at the time wasn't a nation, but a territory of Orlais. And the Chantry is based in Orlais, so simple self-preservation. 

 

I want legal, not illegal. We have illegal examples, such as the Templar who hunted Anders in Awakening even though they are to leave Grey Wardens alone or Petrice's actions with the Qunari.

See they already are involved you answered your own question

 

As i said to know what is legal or not i would have get rules that chantry follows and rules of country in they are doing something.And ultimately what is diffrence they are involved in politics legally or not if not same thing like blood magic in tevinter...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Qunari a threat to every Nation of Thedas; Neutral Hostile or no combating them through whatever means possible is no sin.

The thing with Petrice is she committed fraud by using Elthina's seal to further her ends without actually getting it approved.

 

 

See they already are involved you answered your own question

 

As i said to know what is legal or not i would have get rules that chantry follows and rules of country in they are doing something.And ultimately what is diffrence they are involved in politics legally or not if not same thing like blood magic in tevinter...

I don't see how that is the same since self-preservation was at stake. Explain how letting a new Viscount be appointed was a threat to Chantry security. 

 

And it matters because the Seekers are meant to stop the Templars from committing acts outside their jurisdiction, which Meredith was. That's my whole point. Meredith stepped out of line, yet the Seekers did absolutely nothing. The only one sent there was Leliana and that was for completely different reasons.

[Master Warder Z_]

The thing with Petrice is she committed fraud by using Elthina's seal to further her ends without actually getting it approved.

 

 

As said through whatever means available.

 

She stepped beyond herself certainly; Do i begrudge that? No.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As said through whatever means available.

 

She stepped beyond herself certainly; Do i begrudge that? No.

Apparently the Chantry didn't think so, since if Hawke didn't help they literally leave her to die by Qunari hands. Granted it was probably more because she made them look bad rather than what she actually did.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The thing with Petrice is she committed fraud by using Elthina's seal to further her ends without actually getting it approved.

 

 

I don't see how that is the same since self-preservation was at stake. Explain how letting a new Viscount be appointed was a threat to Chantry security. 

 

And it matters because the Seekers are meant to stop the Templars from committing acts outside their jurisdiction, which Meredith was. That's my whole point. Meredith stepped out of line, yet the Seekers did absolutely nothing. The only one sent there was Leliana and that was for completely different reasons.

 

It wasn self-preservation it was fight for power and considering what orlais was doing in ferelden well i would say it was otherwise...

 

Not rly seekers were a little more than elite templars and are intrested in delivering chantry power or when chantry is in danger... if you belive that seekers are doing something different like protecting mages right i have to state thats rather naive view how world works...

[Master Warder Z_]

Apparently the Chantry didn't think so, since if Hawke didn't help they literally leave her to die by Qunari hands. Granted it was probably more because she made them look bad rather than what she actually did.

 

Some of the Chantry have a differing mind when it comes to issues; They aren't a cohesive collective when it comes to matters of faith if recent events have proven anything.

 

Mages, Qunari, Magic and other issues aren't cut and dry when it comes to the people telling the masses what the Maker feels upon these subjective topics; Although i personally point towards Moral laxness given that the appropriate response to all of these things history has already given, its weakness that prevents the modern days holders of the flame from doing their duty.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It wasn self-preservation it was fight for power and considering what orlais was doing in ferelden well i would say it was otherwise...

 

Not rly seekers were a little more than elite templars and are intrested in delivering chantry power or when chantry is in danger... if you belive that seekers are doing something different like protecting mages right i have to state thats rather naive view how world works...

So you are telling me that you would side against the empire that your center of operations is build in the capitol of? 

 

From the Codex:

I know little of them myself, but I can say the following things with certainty: they serve the Divine and they are feared. When a Seeker steps from the shadows, templars run for cover—because why would he come unless the templars somehow failed in their duties? Seekers are extremely effective investigating abuses within the Circle and hunting particularly evasive apostates.