1605 réponses à ce sujet

[Suledin]

Just an another agent of the chaos in Thedas, lol  . To be serious...she's inadvertently led Thedas to chaos at some point anyway (events from Asunder). 

[Master Warder Z_]

Just an another agent of the chaos in Thedas, lol  . To be serious...she's inadvertently led Thedas to chaos at some point anyway (events from Asunder). 

 

She's a bloody mook who got placed upon the throne of one of the most powerful people in Thedas to occupy.

[TheKomandorShepard]

So you are telling me that you would side against the empire that your center of operations is build in the capitol of? 

 

From the Codex:

I know little of them myself, but I can say the following things with certainty: they serve the Divine and they are feared. When a Seeker steps from the shadows, templars run for cover—because why would he come unless the templars somehow failed in their duties? Seekers are extremely effective investigating abuses within the Circle and hunting particularly evasive apostates.

Side against someone and not taking side are two different things even thats says that chantry isn't politicaly neutral and is involved as well many other examples legal and/or ilegal.

 

Still naive that tevinter says that blood magic is forbidden doesn't mean it is , that orlais says something is ilegal doesn't meant that they aren't doing that , and example from real life that police legaly can't beat you up doesn't mean they aren't practice that despite they claim other thing in public... 

 

same with seekers it is only illusion like templars protecting mages and as far i renember that codex claim that seekers can read in mind so well...

 

 

Just an another agent of the chaos in Thedas, lol  . To be serious...she's inadvertently led Thedas to chaos at some point anyway (events from Asunder). 

 

LoL to be honest that would explain her freeing mages what was just stupid...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Side against someone and not taking side are two different things even thats says that chantry isn't politicaly neutral and is involved as well many other examples legal and/or ilegal.

 

Still naive that tevinter says that blood magic is forbidden doesn't mean it is , that orlais says something is ilegal doesn't meant that they aren't doing that , and example from real life that police legaly can't beat you up doesn't mean they aren't practice that despite they claim other thing in public... 

 

same with seekers it is only illusion like templars protecting mages and as far i renember that codex claim that seekers can read in mind so well...

So everything that you disagree with is just an illusion? Uh huh, yeah I think I'm done here. Good day, sir.

[TheKomandorShepard]

So everything that you disagree with is just an illusion? Uh huh, yeah I think I'm done here. Good day, sir.

lol missed point i was saying that organiastion or society may say something but it can be just empty words like no blood magic in tevinter...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

lol missed point i was saying that organiastion or society may say something but it can be just empty words like no blood magic in tevinter...

You claimed that both the Seekers and Templars roles were just illusions. If you believe that or anything even close to that, there is nothing I can say or show to change your mind because "It's just part of the illusion". So as I said, I'm done here.

[TheKomandorShepard]

You claimed that both the Seekers and Templars roles were just illusions. If you believe that or anything even close to that, there is nothing I can say or show to change your mind because "It's just part of the illusion". So as I said, I'm done here.

 

Yes seekers role is just illusion and part of templar role is illsuion as well (we are talking about role they are claming to do)... and well to be honest you can't prove that is their real role as they both didn't do that and was just empty words as that seekers went with templars at the end just perfectly shows that rly seekers are little more than templars... you can struggle like lambert when he was templar in tevinter but well truth will came out eventually.

 

Many is deluded that current societies in our world are fine and dandy as that they claim but in practice it is far from truth...

[Rinshikai10]

While I don't agree with TheKomanderShepard on many things. I do agree that Justinia is an idealist, this is just my opinion which I have said more then once on this board. But she tends to see the situation for what it could be rather then what it is. 

 

A clear example of this is her overestimating how much influence Wynne had in the Circle, flat out ignoring Fiona who over the past year has gained a fair amount of support from the moderate First Enchanters, and underestimating how far Lambert would go in order to maintain the status quo until he believed it could be changed.

[TheKomandorShepard]

While I don't agree with TheKomanderShepard on many things. I do agree that Justinia is an idealist, this is just my opinion which I have said more then once on this board. But she tends to see the situation for what it could be rather then what it is. 

 

A clear example of this is her overestimating how much influence Wynne had in the Circle, flat out ignoring Fiona who over the past year has gained a fair amount of support from the moderate First Enchanters, and underestimating how far Lambert would go in order to maintain the status quo until he believed it could be changed.

 

And thats why divine shouldn't be allowed to have control over mages or templars first she was too naive and blind to see situation...

second she didn't know nothing about mages and danger they present

everything should be controled by realistic templar like lambert at least when we assume that we want try control mages...

 

her naivety caused world war she shouldn't be divine...  

[Mistic]

While I don't agree with TheKomanderShepard on many things. I do agree that Justinia is an idealist, this is just my opinion which I have said more then once on this board. But she tends to see the situation for what it could be rather then what it is. 

 

A clear example of this is her overestimating how much influence Wynne had in the Circle, flat out ignoring Fiona who over the past year has gained a fair amount of support from the moderate First Enchanters, and underestimating how far Lambert would go in order to maintain the status quo until he believed it could be changed.

 

I agree. The "she tends to see the situation for what it could be rather than what it is" is a nice assessment. She overlooked too many things, underestimated too many people and was overconfident. Others have also pointed out that she's more at ease at Orlesian politics than at managing a religious organization. She thinks herself the best bard master in Orlais instead of the Divine.

 

However, I'm not against her idealism per se. The problem was that she didn't realize she lacked the teeth. Maybe before Kirkwall it would have been enough to say "I'm the Divine and you have to obey me!", but not anymore (and maybe not even that, after what happened in Dawn of the Seeker). However, if she had had the power to back that idealism, maybe the state of current Thedas would have been different.

 

And thats why divine shouldn't be allowed to have control over mages or templars first she was too naive and blind to see situation...

second she didn't know nothing about mages and danger they present

everything should be controled by realistic templar like lambert at least when we assume that we want try control mages...

 

her naivety caused world war she shouldn't be divine...

 

Neither should Fiona be Grand Enchanter nor Lambert head of the Templars (in fact, he isn't).

[TheKomandorShepard]

Neither should Fiona be Grand Enchanter nor Lambert head of the Templars (in fact, he isn't).

 

I agree with fiona but lambert should he was only 1 who solved that problem until divine screwd everything up.He isn't naive like divine and know that magic is dangerous unlike her and also know that if you want keep order you have to use every method when it comes to mages. Lambert is realist and templars need more peoples like him instead thrask or evangeline...

[Mistic]

I agree with fiona but lambert should he was only 1 who solved that problem until divine screwd everything up.He isn't naive like divine and know that magic is dangerous unlike her and also know that if you want keep order you have to use every method when it comes to mages. Lambert is realist and templars need more peoples like him instead thrask or evangeline...

 

My main problem with Lambert is that he's a Seeker. He overstepped his own authority, even if he was right about many things (Cole was really a demon, the mages wanted to vote to separate themselves for the Chantry). However, as a Seeker, his first loyalty should have been to the Divine. If he didn't feel committed enough, he should have resigned instead of begin a rebellion.

 

Both Fiona and Lambert felt hurt by the Divine, but it was those two who actually declared the war.

[TheKomandorShepard]

My main problem with Lambert is that he's a Seeker. He overstepped his own authority, even if he was right about many things (Cole was really a demon, the mages wanted to vote to separate themselves for the Chantry). However, as a Seeker, his first loyalty should have been to the Divine. If he didn't feel committed enough, he should have resigned instead of begin a rebellion.

 

Both Fiona and Lambert felt hurt by the Divine, but it was those two who actually declared the war.

 

Divine was ultimate naive idiot it is understandable that he started see her as obstacle because she was danger with her naivety for entire world on her position lambert was trying save the day divine screw it and ultimately she started kill his peoples with her assassin... divine caused that as she freed mages when situation was in control causing world war.So no lambert shouldn't be lawful stupid just because she was divine to bow her naive views that will cause disasters...  

[Mistic]

Divine was ultimate naive idiot it is understandable that he started see her as obstacle because she was danger with her naivety for entire world on her position lambert was trying save the day divine screw it and ultimately she started kill his peoples with her assassin... divine caused that as she freed mages when situation was in control causing world war.So no lambert shouldn't be lawful stupid just because she was divine to bow her naive views that will cause disasters...  

 

"Danger for the entire world"? Danger for the entire world is a Blight, or the Veil Tears we'll face in Inquisition. This is just politics and power play (mainly, "who has power over mages?"). When you compare that to the real end of the world, it's just a petty war for petty reasons. I bet the Inquisitor will face the same problems as the Warden.

 

Inquisitor: "Hello, guys. Could you stop fighting for a moment and help me save the world? Please?"

Lambert & Fiona & Celene & Gaspard & Rebel elves & Etc.: "NO!"

Inquisitor: "Do you realize that if we don't manage to save the world all of you will die?"

Lambert & Fiona & ...: "That can wait! My cause is more important!"

Inquisitor: "Morons"

[TheKomandorShepard]

"Danger for the entire world"? Danger for the entire world is a Blight, or the Veil Tears we'll face in Inquisition. This is just politics and power play (mainly, "who has power over mages?"). When you compare that to the real end of the world, it's just a petty war for petty reasons. I bet the Inquisitor will face the same problems as the Warden.

 

Inquisitor: "Hello, guys. Could you stop fighting for a moment and help me save the world? Please?"

Lambert & Fiona & Celene & Gaspard & Rebel elves & Etc.: "NO!"

Inquisitor: "Do you realize that if we don't manage to save the world all of you will die?"

Lambert & Fiona & ...: "That can wait! My cause is more important!"

Inquisitor: "Morons"

 

What mages are danger to the world abomnation can causes disasters on huge scale damn even child abomnation without problems killed entire castle and village creating small army of undead good luck with successful abomnation do i have to mention who created blight and who is only thing capable torn veil purposely outside demon that enter thedas mostly thanks to mages? 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

My main problem with Lambert is that he's a Seeker. He overstepped his own authority, even if he was right about many things (Cole was really a demon, the mages wanted to vote to separate themselves for the Chantry). However, as a Seeker, his first loyalty should have been to the Divine. If he didn't feel committed enough, he should have resigned instead of begin a rebellion.

 

Both Fiona and Lambert felt hurt by the Divine, but it was those two who actually declared the war.

Exactly. Instead of being the checks and balance for the Templars as the Seekers are supposed to do, he just took over both factions.

 

I'd argue that technically the Circle part was less one person and more the majority rules, but yeah Fiona definitely rallied them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

"Danger for the entire world"? Danger for the entire world is a Blight, or the Veil Tears we'll face in Inquisition. This is just politics and power play (mainly, "who has power over mages?"). When you compare that to the real end of the world, it's just a petty war for petty reasons. I bet the Inquisitor will face the same problems as the Warden.

 

Inquisitor: "Hello, guys. Could you stop fighting for a moment and help me save the world? Please?"

Lambert & Fiona & Celene & Gaspard & Rebel elves & Etc.: "NO!"

Inquisitor: "Do you realize that if we don't manage to save the world all of you will die?"

Lambert & Fiona & ...: "That can wait! My cause is more important!"

Inquisitor: "Morons"

Sounds like Mass Effect 3.

[Banxey]

While I don't agree with TheKomanderShepard on many things. I do agree that Justinia is an idealist, this is just my opinion which I have said more then once on this board. But she tends to see the situation for what it could be rather then what it is. 

 

A clear example of this is her overestimating how much influence Wynne had in the Circle, flat out ignoring Fiona who over the past year has gained a fair amount of support from the moderate First Enchanters, and underestimating how far Lambert would go in order to maintain the status quo until he believed it could be changed.

 

She has said, "Idealism is our stock-in-trade, Lambert. A religion without ideals is tyranny." So yes, she's an idealist. She strives to make the world the Maker's ideal. But that doesn't mean she expects it all to just fall into place. Being an idealist doesn't render you incapable of seeing other outcomes. It makes no sense that a woman who has lived around bards wouldn't at least consider alternatives, yet that seems to be the consensus. 

 

However, what nobody seems to consider is that Justinia's opponent isn't Lambert. Lambert is a pawn. He was put in place to do exactly what he's done. Had she not freed the mages, had the war not started at that moment, her opponent would have made another move. Justinia sacrificed some knights to save arch mages. If she saved them purely because she felt bad for them, why didn't she counter Lambert's request to make Pharamond tranquil again? The value of the mages may be unknown to us, but that doesn't make her naive.

[Mistic]

Sounds like Mass Effect 3.

 

Yes, definitely The difference this time will be that the Inquisitor, unlike Shepard or the Warden, instead of having just a ragtag bunch of misfits, will have his or her own army.

 

Wioth brings us to another one of the many questions about Inquisition: how will Justinia and the Chantry react to an organization that is using the 'Inquisition' trademark and can be leaded by a pagan blood mage in the worst case scenario?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

She has said, "Idealism is our stock-in-trade, Lambert. A religion without ideals is tyranny." So yes, she's an idealist. She strives to make the world the Maker's ideal. But that doesn't mean she expects it all to just fall into place. Being an idealist doesn't render you incapable of seeing other outcomes. It makes no sense that a woman who has lived around bards wouldn't at least consider alternatives, yet that seems to be the consensus. 

 

However, what nobody seems to consider is that Justinia's opponent isn't Lambert. Lambert is a pawn. He was put in place to do exactly what he's done. Had she not freed the mages, had the war not started at that moment, her opponent would have made another move. Justinia sacrificed some knights to save arch mages. If she saved them purely because she felt bad for them, why didn't she counter Lambert's request to make Pharamond tranquil again? The value of the mages may be unknown to us, but that doesn't make her naive.

 

I agree with this. If the events in Asunder happened differently, whoever is behind all the chaos occurring right now would have simply found another way to achieve their goal. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes, definitely The difference this time will be that the Inquisitor, unlike Shepard or the Warden, instead of having just a ragtag bunch of misfits, will have his or her own army.

 

Wioth brings us to another one of the many questions about Inquisition: how will Justinia and the Chantry react to an organization that is using the 'Inquisition' trademark and can be leaded by a pagan blood mage in the worst case scenario?

I think they may begrudgingly accept it, like they do the Grey Wardens. They know Grey Wardens have blood mages in their ranks, yet since the Wardens do not take sides and are fighting to protect the world from Darkspawn they are allowed to keep them. For the Inquisition, they either accept it or try to fight them, making the universal threat of the Veil Tears worse.

[Sir JK]

 

She has said, "Idealism is our stock-in-trade, Lambert. A religion without ideals is tyranny." So yes, she's an idealist. She strives to make the world the Maker's ideal. But that doesn't mean she expects it all to just fall into place. Being an idealist doesn't render you incapable of seeing other outcomes. It makes no sense that a woman who has lived around bards wouldn't at least consider alternatives, yet that seems to be the consensus. 

 

However, what nobody seems to consider is that Justinia's opponent isn't Lambert. Lambert is a pawn. He was put in place to do exactly what he's done. Had she not freed the mages, had the war not started at that moment, her opponent would have made another move. Justinia sacrificed some knights to save arch mages. If she saved them purely because she felt bad for them, why didn't she counter Lambert's request to make Pharamond tranquil again? The value of the mages may be unknown to us, but that doesn't make her naive.

 

 

I agree. Moreover, I think Justinia realised fairly early that Lambert was not obeying her. When she and him met with Wynne and Pharamond she seemed very much aware that she could not just order Lambert and expect him to obey. Given that she seemed very hesitant to even allow the mages to assemble the conclave I'm given the impression she was very much aware that Lambert probably would not stand idly by (and her response to him arresting the mages came rather quickly, did it not?).

 

Justinia may have been politically outmanouvered and probably underestimated "radical free agents" like Rhys and Adrian (she probably had a good idea of what Fiona would do however) but I seriously doubt she was too naive to understand the repercussion of her actions. I think she was painfully aware she was playing a high stakes game.

[Mistic]

However, what nobody seems to consider is that Justinia's opponent isn't Lambert. Lambert is a pawn. He was put in place to do exactly what he's done. Had she not freed the mages, had the war not started at that moment, her opponent would have made another move. Justinia sacrificed some knights to save arch mages. If she saved them purely because she felt bad for them, why didn't she counter Lambert's request to make Pharamond tranquil again? The value of the mages may be unknown to us, but that doesn't make her naive.

 

How can you be so sure Lamber was a pawn put in place by that mysterious opponent? I suppose you're referring to the upcoming villain in Inquisition, aren't you? But Seekers are chosen by the Divine.

 

However, now that you mention it, there is a mysterious event that kickstarted Asunder's fallout: the assassination attempt on the Divine. Lambert never found out the culprits behind it. Wynne guessed there had to be more people involved for a mage to reach that far, maybe even templars. But all of them were distracted by many other things.

 

That means that the Divine might be very interested in helping the Inquiitor to find out the truth.

 

I think they may begrudgingly accept it, like they do the Grey Wardens. They know Grey Wardens have blood mages in their ranks, yet since the Wardens do not take sides and are fighting to protect the world from Darkspawn they are allowed to keep them. For the Inquisition, they either accept it or try to fight them, making the universal threat of the Veil Tears worse.

 

My personal opinion is that the Inquisition will become and equivalent of the Grey Wardens in the end. The story of the origins and rise of the Grey Wardens during the First Blight mirrors DA:I very well.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

My personal opinion is that the Inquisition will become and equivalent of the Grey Wardens in the end. The story of the origins and rise of the Grey Wardens during the First Blight mirrors DA:I very well.

I am on the same line of thought. After the Veil Tear Crisis is over, I wouldn't be surprised if the Inquisition becomes sort of an unaffiliated military force dedicated to trying to stop problems before they happen and thus ensuring further Veil Tears do not occur.

[Sir JK]

...

However, now that you mention it, there is a mysterious event that kickstarted Asunder's fallout: the assassination attempt on the Divine. Lambert never found out the culprits behind it. Wynne guessed there had to be more people involved for a mage to reach that far, maybe even templars. But all of them were distracted by many other things.

...

 

I wonder if Lambert isn't actually the one behind that.

A well known White Spire Libertarian just happen to show up at the one ball Justinia happens to grace with her presence? Shortly thereafter Lambert ousts the elderly Knight-commander (knight-vigilant?) and takes control over the largest tempar force in western Thedas despite being a Seeker?

 

Wynne has an awful good point about it being suspicious. There's no proof... but it fits. And he certainly seems ruthless enough to actually try something like that.