1605 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir JK]

Rinshikai:
Ah, sorry. But I think most of my point still stands. You can't really plan ahead much in politics, because you have to keep all the pieces moving at once. You can set your goals and such of course, even court people ahead of time. But there's constantly things going on and usually several factions working against you (often unintentionally) so you can't really do one thing at the time and you need to constantly update your information.
People you can trust blindly... that's probably the single most valuable thing you can have. Even if they're not the most unbiased... because at the very least you don't need to constantly check if they're still loyal.

And of course then comes the odd crazy person and blows something up that makes a lot of people very angry and start doing their own damage controls and down comes the entire house of cards.

MisterJB:
If there was a known special meaning to 5 or she was the second Justinia that would sound very likely. But I don't see any special symbolism in her name or regnal number really.
Unless it's tied to the fact that there's been 5 blights... but then 7 sounds like a better fit.

[Rinshikai10]

@MisterJB

I believe that the number in Justinia's name is simply because she is the fifth Divine to take that name.

Sir Jk
I have to disagree with you on not being able to plan ahead in politics. the Best leaders set a goal, and will take steps to get to them. If the situation changes, so do the steps. That's one thing that bothered me about Justinias grand plan, she appears to stick to one set of steps, no matter how must the situation changes. Ineffectively using her resources for her one plan, and alienating many possible allies.

Placing far too much trust on her few allies that share her idealistic mindset. Which is very dangerous IMHO, due to them not being able to see how bad the situation has become.

In my view she should have tried to talk to Mage and Templar leadership directly. Rather then hoping that they would listen to her after she ignored them when Fiona was elected.

I know that I'm harsh on her, but she needs to adapt if she wants to change anything.

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 06 mai 2013 - 03:30 .

[Rinshikai10]

I just got my World of Thedas book and I found a bit of info on the time line that seemed interesting.

9:40 Dragon
"A violent uprising at the White Spire leaves many Senior Mages Dead. The uprising is apparently supported by the Divine thought her agents, including the bard Leliana."

I know Justinia desires reform, but I don't recall her every supporting a full on uprising in Asunder.

Any opinions?

[lil yonce]

She called Lambert and some of his men away from the White Spire to make it easier for the senior enchanters to escape. He writes it in his letter he sends to her with Arnaud. Not her best moment if you ask me. It was a kinda a dumb thing to do. She helped kick off the Mage-Templar War.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 08 mai 2013 - 03:14 .

[Senya]

It might be a clue on how the Templars are painting her. They need to justify to people why they broke away from the Chantry.

Again, I will say she inherited a bad situation. Like becoming President of the US during a Depression.

[LobselVith8]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I just got my World of Thedas book and I found a bit of info on the time line that seemed interesting.

9:40 Dragon
"A violent uprising at the White Spire leaves many Senior Mages Dead. The uprising is apparently supported by the Divine thought her agents, including the bard Leliana."

I know Justinia desires reform, but I don't recall her every supporting a full on uprising in Asunder.

Any opinions?

I'm not under the impression that Divine Justina V supports mage autonomy from the Andrastian Chantry or the Templar Order. Especially considering "Faith".

[Xilizhra]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I just got my World of Thedas book and I found a bit of info on the time line that seemed interesting.

9:40 Dragon
"A violent uprising at the White Spire leaves many Senior Mages Dead. The uprising is apparently supported by the Divine thought her agents, including the bard Leliana."

I know Justinia desires reform, but I don't recall her every supporting a full on uprising in Asunder.

Any opinions?

I'm not under the impression that Divine Justina V supports mage autonomy from the Andrastian Chantry or the Templar Order. Especially considering "Faith".

It seems that Faith and Asunder don't jive very well. Which... sort of makes me want to see if I can uninstall Exiled Prince, but Sebastian'll likely be too important in the future for that to be a good idea. Perhaps it was Tevinter-backed blood mages of the kind that you fight in that quest that she was mostly concerned about, but a purely internal revolt would be less of an issue? In any case, I doubt that Leliana would have wanted to portray a disunited front to enemies of the Chantry by mentioning Justinia's problems with templar conduct, even in Kirkwall.

[lil yonce]

I'm pretty certain Justinia's stance in Faith was, if Kirkwall falls to magic she has to call an Exalted March. It could have been political with her hand forced considering how important Kirkwall is to Orlais and the Chantry and has always believed in a moral high ground that has nothing to do with her job, or maybe the Resolutionists were such a problem-- obviously violent and possibly maleficarum with malicious intent-- that nothing good would come from the city falling under their sway, and maybe she didn't feel that way about the senior enchanters.

No matter what her reasoning I hope I get to call her out on that mistake if we get a face-to-face. If I have to fix a problem she helped create, she's going to hear it from me.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm not under the impression that Divine Justina V supports mage autonomy from the Andrastian Chantry or the Templar Order. Especially considering "Faith".

It seems that Faith and Asunder don't jive very well.

Wanting to give the mages a little more freedom to keep them working under the auspicies of the Andrastian Chantry doesn't change my opinion of Divine Justina V.

Xilizhra wrote...

Which... sort of makes me want to see if I can uninstall Exiled Prince, but Sebastian'll likely be too important in the future for that to be a good idea. Perhaps it was Tevinter-backed blood mages of the kind that you fight in that quest that she was mostly concerned about, but a purely internal revolt would be less of an issue?

The Resolutionists seem to be Libertarians who are willing to achieve autonomy through any means, even if it requires violence, rather than thralls of Tevinter. According to their own codex entry, they seek to gain autonomy, and that's pretty much it. They aren't looking to rule over everyone - simply themselves. As the codex reads: "They have declared that unless mages are freed to rule themselves, they will show every person in Thedas how little protection the Circle of Magi actually offers."

Which means the Resolutionists accomplishing their goal would lead to mage autonomy, not another Tevinter. Although so little coverage is given to them that the Resolutionists seem like more of an afterthought that was added at the last minute, rather than a genuine group we should take seriously.

Xilizhra wrote...

In any case, I doubt that Leliana would have wanted to portray a disunited front to enemies of the Chantry by mentioning Justinia's problems with templar conduct, even in Kirkwall. 

So instead she revealed that the Divine would sack Kirkwall if the mages gained autonomy, since that's the only goal the Resolutionists seek via their own codex from this quest?

[Xilizhra]

Wanting to give the mages a little more freedom to keep them working under the auspicies of the Andrastian Chantry doesn't change my opinion of Divine Justina V.

Nor mine. But the woman herself may be subject to change.

The Resolutionists seem to be Libertarians who are willing to achieve autonomy through any means, even if it requires violence, rather than thralls of Tevinter. According to their own codex entry, they seek to gain autonomy, and that's pretty much it. They aren't looking to rule over everyone - simply themselves. As the codex reads: "They have declared that unless mages are freed to rule themselves, they will show every person in Thedas how little protection the Circle of Magi actually offers."

Which means the Resolutionists accomplishing their goal would lead to mage autonomy, not another Tevinter. Although so little coverage is given to them that the Resolutionists seem like more of an afterthought that was added at the last minute, rather than a genuine group we should take seriously.

I'm not saying the Resolutionists supported Tevinter. What I am saying is that Tevinter may find it advantageous to back them covertly, and Leliana may indeed suspect this, not having read the codex.

So instead she revealed that the Divine would sack Kirkwall if the mages gained autonomy, since that's the only goal the Resolutionists seek via their own codex from this quest?

Faith is a terrible quest. Another issue is that Hawke's only dialogue options are two different flavors of pro-Chantry. It may be advantageous to just pretend that none of it ever happened, as even Asunder seems to.

[Sir JK]

Obviously we cannot gauge what Justinia's true intentions or the lengths she's willing to go since we've never talked to her. Pretty much all our sources on her are second or third-hand ones. Leliana has likely spoken to the woman herself, but how much her words in Faith are her own and how much are a quote from the Divine we cannot know. Elthina is pretty much just guessing (though they're probably not entirely off base since they presumably know one another).

Of course, her (supposed) actions in Faith depends on how exactly the Resolutionists operate. Or perhaps more accurately, how the high ups in the Chantry think they operate (which might not be an entirely accurate picture). But given what they do in that quest, it is doubtful the Chantry sees the Resolutionists as a respectable group to work with. Yes, they were baited. But had their intentions been good, they wouldn't have launched an attack on the first person to enter the throne room... now would they? Had the agent not been Leliana but instead a elderly cleric simply there to meet a few contacts how long would she have lasted?

And if that is the impression of them: what would the Chantry expect to happen if they had left things lie and allowed the resolutionists to succeed in Kirkwall? Does anyone think the resolutionists had been satisfied with that? It's not entirely unlikely, as someone from outside the group itself, to imagine that they'd at the very least orchestrate attacks to free the rest of the mages from that city.
Then there's the question what would happen in the city itself. What would happen to the templars? The clergy? The chantry and relics? The faithful? That Kirkwall would become the second Tevinter only hardliners would believe, but retributive acts against te Chantry? Not as far fetched.

Of course, neither Kirkwall as a base of operation or a Kirkwall where Andraste's flock is endangered is something the Chantry can just ignore. Especially conservative clerics, templars and seekers would demand action. Not only against Kirkwall, but against all other mages as well. Lambert presumably already holds his position, and we have been shown that he was willing to use an assassin because he felt the Divine was too soft on mages (after Kirkwall, certainly). This does not so much tell us about her as about him, who stands as the face for the conservatives to me.
So if Kikrwall would have fallen to the Resolutionists, the Chantry's fear over what they'd do would alone force the Divine to order drastic measures or see her power eroded or herself killed. So regardless of her own desires, she'd have to take the hardline approach or be unable to help the mages at all. Martyrdom is fine and all... but if changes nothing then what's the use? Especially if you are in the position where you can change things with a little patience and a lot of effort.

Same thing later, when she suspended the College of Magi when they were voting. The conservatives were already aggravated. Had the mages been allowed to vote for separation things would likely have exploded. It kept deteriorating from there of course, so it was at bets only a marginal success.

And after that she publicly voiced support for reform of the circles, ordered (secretly) investigation into tranquility in order to develop an alternative and sent her agents to assist the mages during the crackdown.
Whether this is simply to make the mages accept their place (through making the circles better for them), to increase their autonomy or even help them separate themselves peacefully (now rather moot) is unknown. We'll likely never know unless we get an heart to heart conversation with her.

Which I hope we will. It would be interesting to hear her side of the story. Regardless of her stance on the whole matter.

[Xilizhra]

Had the agent not been Leliana but instead a elderly cleric simply there to meet a few contacts how long would she have lasted?

How do you know they'd do the same thing? What they saw was four heavily armed people come in.

[Sir JK]

Xilizhra wrote...

How do you know they'd do the same thing? What they saw was four heavily armed people come in.

Well...if it was an elderly cleric, she would probably travel with a reliable bodyguard (who may or may not be templars) so heavily armed strangers would not have been unlikely in either case. Of course, the reasonable thing to do when you see a bunch of heavily armed individuals that you don't trust is to ask them to disarm themselves. If their intentions are peaceful they would.

But even if this wasn't the case... the leader of the small group is very calm and collected and suggests that shes here specifically to kill the agent, whom they don't know who it is so they mistake Hawke for sister Nightingale's. It's not a panicked response to a sudden appearance of someone potentionally dangerous.
Besides it's not Hawke that's barging in on their meeting, it's them barging in on Sister Nightingale's.

As far as I can tell... there's nothing that suggest they had any peaceful intentions. Do we have any reason to believe the "separation at all costs"-group would not have killed whomever it was entering that room?

[Xilizhra]

Well...if it was an elderly cleric, she would probably travel with a reliable bodyguard (who may or may not be templars) so heavily armed strangers would not have been unlikely in either case. Of course, the reasonable thing to do when you see a bunch of heavily armed individuals that you don't trust is to ask them to disarm themselves. If their intentions are peaceful they would.

Why would they necessarily be peaceful? They're already at war for declaring independence, it's just on a much smaller scale than the entire Circle. Spies are legitimate military targets; they may well capture someone harmless, but someone threatening? Not to mention that the odds of anyone harmless being the agent are vanishingly low.

[Sir JK]

Xilizhra wrote...

Why would they necessarily be peaceful? They're already at war for declaring independence, it's just on a much smaller scale than the entire Circle. Spies are legitimate military targets; they may well capture someone harmless, but someone threatening? Not to mention that the odds of anyone harmless being the agent are vanishingly low.

I'm not sure what we're discussing now Xil.

First you seemed to object that the Resolutionists would have killed the Divine's agent had she been an elderly lady waiting in the room (ie. the meeting was not a ruse at all).

Now you seem to be saying that she would have been a legitimate target regardless. Which is kind of what I said...

So what are you trying to tell me?

[Senya]

I personally find, "They have declared that unless mages are freed to rule themselves, they will show every person in Thedas how little protection the Circle of Magi actually offers" more than a bit disconcerting. It seems to imply that they would engage in acts of terror targeted at ordinary people.

That does not seem like a good image of mages to project onto the common people. It does sound like Tevinter philosophy, though, so I would have been surprised if Tevinter involvement wasn't at least suspected.

[LobselVith8]

Sir JK wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Why would they necessarily be peaceful? They're already at war for declaring independence, it's just on a much smaller scale than the entire Circle. Spies are legitimate military targets; they may well capture someone harmless, but someone threatening? Not to mention that the odds of anyone harmless being the agent are vanishingly low.

I'm not sure what we're discussing now Xil.

First you seemed to object that the Resolutionists would have killed the Divine's agent had she been an elderly lady waiting in the room (ie. the meeting was not a ruse at all).

Now you seem to be saying that she would have been a legitimate target regardless. Which is kind of what I said...

So what are you trying to tell me?  

I would wager it's that spies, as opposed to civilians, are legitimate military targets (which is why I believe Xil said they may not have necessarily killed an elderly lady who simply wandered into the room at the time, since what we do know is that the Resolutionists attacked a group of well-armed individiuals). However, since the room had been closed off to everyone at the time, I don't see why any civilian would have wandered into the Throne Room, which is locked (and requires rogue Hawke or a rogue companion to intentionally unlock the door in order to access this area).

What we've seen so far is that the Resolutionists are willing to attack members of the Andrastian Chantry. That's it, really.

[Rinshikai10]

almostinsane99 wrote...

It might be a clue on how the Templars are painting her. They need to justify to people why they broke away from the Chantry.

Again, I will say she inherited a bad situation. Like becoming President of the US during a Depression.

Thats a good point almostinsane99.

Another interesting piece I found on the time line says that the Templars and Seekers are split, with most of them leaving the Divine. Then when I read the Circle of Magi page it says that the some supporting the Circle System are split on leadership. Yet it does not say if they returned to the Divine or not.

I have to wonder why are these individuals not returning to the Chantry. Could it be fear of what Fiona says at the end of Asunder? That if they return there will be a strong chance of them being made tranquil, or just being killed.

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 10 mai 2013 - 10:44 .

[Sir JK]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I would wager it's that spies, as opposed to civilians, are legitimate military targets (which is why I believe Xil said they may not have necessarily killed an elderly lady who simply wandered into the room at the time, since what we do know is that the Resolutionists attacked a group of well-armed individiuals). However, since the room had been closed off to everyone at the time, I don't see why any civilian would have wandered into the Throne Room, which is locked (and requires rogue Hawke or a rogue companion to intentionally unlock the door in order to access this area).

What we've seen so far is that the Resolutionists are willing to attack members of the Andrastian Chantry. That's it, really.

Agreed.

Which is why I said that no matter how pro-mage the Divine may or may not be, should the Resolutionists gather in Kirkwall and perhaps even take it, then she would have had to react by declaring an Exalted March or see herself cease to be the actual leader of the Chantry (by death or being bypassed/ignored).

A pro-mage Divine might be able to make moves indicating a support of a peaceful separation... slowly, carefully and mostly by "avoiding" to intervene... but she cannot in any way be seen supporting, by action or inaction, people attacking her own flock.
And after Kirkwall... not even open talk of peaceful separation could be tolerated, the templars and conservative chantry were simply far too aggravated...

Of course, that this was simply unacceptable to the Libertarians is perfectly understandable.

[Rinshikai10]

@ Sir JK

You make a very good point about having to play it safe. However, I would think that should an exalted march happen in Kirkwall it could sour very quickly.

If Justinia sent an army to crush the Mage resistance, there will be considerable loses of more then just the Revolutionists. There are many Fereldan refugees there, who may lose their lives and potentially sour the already strained relationship with the Fereldan people.

Kirkwall was once occupied by Orlais and did not leave the best impression of the Empire. Even though Justinia would be sending the army to liberate Kirkwall, it could also be seen as a reoccupation that may jeopardize relationships with the other Free Marches Cites, making the trade of grain more difficult.

With the Templar now in control of Kirkwall (Both DA2 endings hint at Templar control) they may try to control supply lines to the other factions.

In WOT in the Nations section it talks about how, much of Thedas looks at Orlais with disrespect and contempt for its past. To add even further strain with the Templars and Mages separating from the Chantry. Justinia will not be able to enforce the monopoly on the Lyrium trade. Which means that the Dwarves (The only group that Orlais has good will with) may find others to trade with, such as the Tevinter's, or the Wardens at Amarathine. Who from my understanding are gaining considerable control of the Waking sea trade routes.

IMHO, had Justinia sent Leliana to Kirkwall right after the Templars sent her a letter about the Tranquil Solution. There may have been able to see how bad the siutation was before it went too far. But because she waited till after things got out of control, she has lost many opportunities that may have helped her down the road. Now she is trying to play chess with only the king and queen, against an opponent with a full set.

But that is just my opinion from what I have seen.

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 17 mai 2013 - 12:48 .

[TK514]

almostinsane99 wrote...

I personally find, "They have declared that unless mages are freed to rule themselves, they will show every person in Thedas how little protection the Circle of Magi actually offers" more than a bit disconcerting. It seems to imply that they would engage in acts of terror targeted at ordinary people.

That does not seem like a good image of mages to project onto the common people. It does sound like Tevinter philosophy, though, so I would have been surprised if Tevinter involvement wasn't at least suspected.

This is my concern as well.  When you publicly declare yourself terrorists, you can't turn around and expect the opposition to treat with you peaceably, or even necessarily in good faith.    There's pretty much no way the Chantry, or some of the nations of Thedas for that matter, could allow a terrorist organization to take and hold an important trade port.

Armed response was not just possible, it would be inevitable.

Modifié par TK514, 19 mai 2013 - 02:32 .

[Rinshikai10]

I decided to put together this chart, as a means of trying to understand where the chantry style of leadership has power, and where it fails. I just want to be clear that I am using example from the top of my head. 




Justinia-White Divine
 
She has the top position of the Chantry leadership that ideally gives
her the highest authority. Below her are for possible leaders
 




Seekers of Truth[/b]
Lord Seeker Lambert- Head of the Seekers of Truth.


Knight Vigilant/Divine [/b]
Head of the Templar Order, and possibly the personal guard to the Divine.


Grand Cleric[/b]
National leader of the Chantry priesthood.  


Grand Enchanter[/b]
Leader of all the Circles under Chantry control.  Was previously the title of First Enchanter
Briaus of the Hossberg Circle, now currently under the elected Fiona.




Duties[/b]
Tasked with internal security of Chantry affairs. Which include
weeding Templars that could go too far, or hunting dangerous Mages that the
Templars have failed to either kill or capture them.   


Duties[/b]
Currently the duties of this position are not known. Other than that
it is the leadership role of the whole Templar Order.


Duties [/b]
They lead several Temples in their respected land, and supposedly have authority just under the Divine herself.  One being the Templars the authority for the ROA.  


Duties[/b]
Acting as an Adviser to the Divine, and representative of all Circles.  




Authority over other groups[/b]
As the secret service of the Divine, the Seekers are given the power to investigate any possible threats to the Chantry. Be the Priest, Templar, or Mage.    


Authority over other groups[/b]
As the military arm of the Chantry the Templars are tasked with enforcing Chantry law, watching the Circle Mages, and hunting apostates.  It is believed that they have total control over all Mages by the Makers divine authority.   


Authority over other groups[/b]
As there acting leaders of the Divine in their respected lands. The Grand Clerics have considerable influence not just in the faith, but also politics.
 
Even if they are not at the Circle, GC is the only one that can give the KC the authority for the ROA. Only if they are dead does the KC gain that authority.   


Authority over other groups[/b]
As of now we don’t know has much, if any influence the Grand Enchanter has over the other organizations.
 
Up until now we don’t truly
know if Justinia has tried talking to either Briaus or Fiona. Since she has risen to power.




Failures [/b]
By the time that Meredith has become viscount in all but name. The Seekers under Justinia have made no attempt to investigate Kirkwall, until after Anders attack on the Chantry.  
 
The current leader Lambert acts more like a Templar then a Seeker due to his own experiences.


Failures[/b]
Meredith’s extreme views and her authority as the KC encourage a harsh view on magic, provoking an already strained relationship with the Circle.
 
Because she gives power to those who share her views. Abuses from those said members are overlooked. Simply adding fuel to an already raging fire.


Failure[/b]
A lack of taking responsibility when those under them have done
wrong. One key example being Petrice trying to generate hostilities
with the Qunari, using Elthina’s seal.
 
 


Failures[/b]
Orsino potently hides guilty Mages from the Templars for the sole reason that all under his command would be punished for the actions of a few.

 
Like Meredith, he outright refuses to disciple his own due to his own ideals.    


Overall it’s a lack of management skills, communication between the organizations, and a lack of trust due to conflicting idealism.

 I’m a fan of Sun Tzu’s mind set and I will look to the Art of War whenever I try to understand how a
leader thinks.

 

Quotes like:

“Management of many is the same as management of few. It is a matter of organization.”

Sun Tzu

This gives me the impression that the Chantry as well as Justinia as a whole doesn’t have an affective management system with checks and balances, to ensure stability.

We see in Asunder that Justinia makes a big speech at the beginning of the book talking about the plight of Mages, yet (this is just my opinion) almost every action that she takes during the book before the collage gathering has been solely what was best for the Chantry and by extension the Templar/seekers. I understand that being Divine requires her to. However, at the same time I don't believe that she understands that using Orlais style of governing (the game included) has no real value on an international scale.  

Throughout the book her actions give the impression that she does not trust anyone other the Leliana and Wynne with her plans, and because of this all other factions don't know what is going on. Resulting in unexpected results that have harmed her goals. The separation of the Circle, Templar Order, and Seekers being the most obvious.

I know I have said this in past discussions, but I don’t believe that Justinia knows how to be an effective leader. She seems like a good person, and I respect her for trying to change the system. However, I find her way trying to change similar to Lord Harrowmont hoping that the Dwarves will regain their past glory by sticking to the old ways.

While someone like Bhelen is not loved by all high born castes, he sees that change needs to happen, by force if need be. So that the Dwarves can retain some of what they lost, rather then simply surviving.

If he is made King he gives more freedoms to the lower caste, and opens the city to the surface.

While the Nobles and Warriors attempt to kill him, he simply disbands the assembly and rule alone.

For the most part, I see Bhelen understanding the darker sides of leadership and a willingness to use it, to push Orzammar forward.

IMHO Justinia, like Harrowmont is trying to work within a system that does not work. Clinging to idealism that is in truth hurting their people.


Any thoughts?

Sorry for the jumble I don't know how to get the chart to show.

From top to bottom its Seekers,Templars,Clerics, and Mages. If I'm incorrect in any of the information don't hesitate to correct me.

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 21 mai 2013 - 11:11 .

[Willowhugger]

I think Justinia V is meant to be an even-headed and compassionate woman from what we saw in Leliana's song (also the first gay Divine we've had confirmed given she and Marjoraine were having an affair). Undoubtedly, she wanted to improve the lot of mages. The thing is, what Anders was illustrating was the Chantry and Templars and Mages were NOT able to reach a compromise any longer. You can't delay the confrontation forever.

[Rinshikai10]

Willowhugger wrote...

I think Justinia V is meant to be an even-headed and compassionate woman from what we saw in Leliana's song (also the first gay Divine we've had confirmed given she and Marjoraine were having an affair). Undoubtedly, she wanted to improve the lot of mages. The thing is, what Anders was illustrating was the Chantry and Templars and Mages were NOT able to reach a compromise any longer. You can't delay the confrontation forever.

I completely agree with you on this Willowhugger. One thing that has caught my curiosity about her, is why does she have military documents about the Empires troop moments. I find it strange that a priest would have them, and how someone like Majorainie would know about them.  

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 19 mai 2013 - 05:04 .

[Rinshikai10]

Well, its been a slow week, and I've noticed on other boards that players have very different views about Justinia.

Some of the Pro-Templars say that she is a fool, and her lenient view on Mages will bring back the Imperial rule. While some Pro-Mages say shes not doing enough to change the system. Then there are others who say that if she had more time things would be different, or that she must only do something when it doesn't jeopardize her position.

I guess it boils down to is she more like Harrowmont who believes in working within a centuries old system, and will only change things in a very small why. Or will she be more like Behelen who has a vision for the future, and is willing to kill in order to achieve her goals.

In a nutshell its Visionary vs Idealist.

Any opinions?

Also the original plan that Cassandra talks about, makes me curious about what Justinia was doing before the search for the Warden and Hawke began.

Any opinions?

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 26 mai 2013 - 10:58 .