1605 réponses à ce sujet

[Banxey]

How did she **** off the mages? The Exalted March?

 

Wasn't Justinia planning on possibly launching an Exalted March on Kirkwall do to the mage problem there? 

 

Yes. Which she wouldn't have had to do had Lambert been doing his job.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

She really couldn't have pissed off the mages because almost nobody knew that she was even considering it. We only learn of it from her top agent during a secret meeting.

[dragonflight288]

How did she **** off the mages? The Exalted March?

 

 

Yes. Which she wouldn't have had to do had Lambert been doing his job.

 

And he had seven years to do it. Meredith was way too involved in politics even before Hawke entered Kirkwall. It's the City-Guard who say Meredith ordered that the refugees be sorted out and no longer be allowed in. Not Dumar, not the Guard Captain, but the person who's responsibilities aren't even involved with refugees or the day-to-day running of Kirkwall. 

[Master Warder Z_]

What I can't see is mages and templars joining hands to overthrow the Divine, although that would be memorable.

 

._.

 

I would take that sight with me to my grave.

[Divine Justinia V]

And he had seven years to do it. Meredith was way too involved in politics even before Hawke entered Kirkwall. It's the City-Guard who say Meredith ordered that the refugees be sorted out and no longer be allowed in. Not Dumar, not the Guard Captain, but the person who's responsibilities aren't even involved with refugees or the day-to-day running of Kirkwall. 

 

Yes, but she wasn't power hungry, right? Noooooooooo, not Meredith. Never that.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yes, but she wasn't power hungry, right? Noooooooooo, not Meredith. Never that.

 

Actually if you listen to the guard captain within the Gallows he stated rather straight forwardly that by order of the Viscount only those who could bring gold into the city would be permitted.

 

That they were merely being screened through the gallows was likely a request by Meredith for obvious reasons.

[Divine Justinia V]

Actually if you listen to the guard captain within the Gallows he stated rather straight forwardly that by order of the Viscount only those who could bring gold into the city would be permitted.

 

That they were merely being screened through the gallows was likely a request by Meredith for obvious reasons.

 

Order of the Viscount = Knight-Commander Meredith.

Everyone knows she ran that place, even him. If you look up "power hungry", Merediths face will pop up.

 

Now, I loved her. I'm a big KCM fan, but I'm not going to ignore her major, major flaws.

[Master Warder Z_]

Order of the Viscount = Knight-Commander Meredith.

Everyone knows she ran that place, even him. If you look up "power hungry", Merediths face will pop up.

 

Now, I loved her. I'm a big KCM fan, but I'm not going to ignore her major, major flaws.

 

We don't know that Meredith dictated every single day to day action of the Viscount, did the Templar Order and Chantry have that office in a position of disadvantage?

 

Yes due to the actions of the prior Viscount. Does that mean Meredith all but controlled the office? That's debatable considering the Viscount seemingly was using the authority of his office quite regularly in Act two.

 

I'm just pointing out that the order came from the Viscount's Office, not Meredith.

[TheKomandorShepard]

How did she **** off the mages? The Exalted March?

 

 

Yes. Which she wouldn't have had to do had Lambert been doing his job.

 

Pretty much even simple ignoring kirkwall and going for attitude "i barely tolerate you" pretty much sums that up... 

 

 

 

She really couldn't have pissed off the mages because almost nobody knew that she was even considering it. We only learn of it from her top agent during a secret meeting.

 

Well ignoring them having insulting opinions toward them and well such as lambert didn't know that she send her assassin?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well ignoring them having insulting opinions toward them and well such as lambert didn't know that she send her assassin?

I'm sorry, but I didn't quite understand that. Can you explain again please?

[TheKomandorShepard]

I'm sorry, but I didn't quite understand that. Can you explain again please?

 

Lets see ignoring crazy templar in charge ignoring big sings of corruption when it comes about certain templars , caring more about her power... second part was about leliana master of the spies that tells us her real name then kill templars and lambert knows that she did it...

[Banxey]

Pretty much even simple ignoring kirkwall and going for attitude "i barely tolerate you" pretty much sums that up... 

 

 

 

 

Well ignoring them having insulting opinions toward them and well such as lambert didn't know that she send her assassin?

 

She did not tolerate the resolutionists. I empathise with mages and I don't tolerate the resolutionists. And of course she was seemingly ignoring them, the part of her organisation whose job it is to bring her news on the situation weren't doing their jobs..

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lets see ignoring crazy templar in charge ignoring big sings of corruption when it comes about certain templars , caring more about her power... second part was about leliana master of the spies that tells us her real name then kill templars and lambert knows that she did it...

Ah, that's better.

 

Ignoring corrupt Templars is actually on Lambert's shoulders(or his predecessor if he wasn't in that position in the 9:30s), not Justinia's. As Lord Seeker, he is in charge of policing Templars. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

She did not tolerate the resolutionists. I empathise with mages and I don't tolerate the resolutionists. And of course she was seemingly ignoring them, the part of her organisation whose job it is to bring her news on the situation weren't doing their jobs..

 

She said it with context to libertarians... and she knew what is going on to send leliana so excuse that she didn't know isn't in place.

 

 

Ah, that's better.

 

Ignoring corrupt Templars is actually on Lambert's shoulders(or his predecessor if he wasn't in that position in the 9:30s), not Justinia's. As Lord Seeker, he is in charge of policing Templars. 

lord seeker wasn't only person who was ignoring divine as i said knew what is going on to send leliana deal with 1 side and provoke it same she did with templars in asunder.

[dragonflight288]

She said it with context to libertarians... and she knew what is going on to send leliana so excuse that she didn't know isn't in place.

 

 

lord seeker wasn't only person who was ignoring divine as i said knew what is going on to send leliana deal with 1 side and provoke it same she did with templars in asunder.

 

It's Lambert's job to investigate templars. His job isn't involved with mages. It's the Knight-Vigilant's job to oversee mages in general. If the resolutionists were growing violent, it's his job, or the Knight-Divine's job to organize the templars to take care of them. And the Seeker's job to make sure these templars are doing their job. 

 

If all sides were ignoring Justinia, then all that means is that Justinia isn't at fault or to blame, and the fault lies on those who ignore her. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

It's Lambert's job to investigate templars. His job isn't involved with mages. It's the Knight-Vigilant's job to oversee mages in general. If the resolutionists were growing violent, it's his job, or the Knight-Divine's job to organize the templars to take care of them. And the Seeker's job to make sure these templars are doing their job. 

 

If all sides were ignoring Justinia, then all that means is that Justinia isn't at fault or to blame, and the fault lies on those who ignore her. 

If we assume that he was seeker during... and nope that doesn't change was divine was doing pissing off both sides during her years in charge pretty much officially she was leader even if destructctive one she didn't had to be one she chose to be 1... she knew very well what is happening...

 

so either she is dumb and naive or just person that want bring chaos and destruction onto world in both cases she need be removed for good...

[Banxey]

She said it with context to libertarians... and she knew what is going on to send leliana so excuse that she didn't know isn't in place.

 

 

lord seeker wasn't only person who was ignoring divine as i said knew what is going on to send leliana deal with 1 side and provoke it same she did with templars in asunder.

 

I said seemingly ignoring them. I don't actually think she was ignoring them, you do. She only became Divine in 9:34, which would be somewhere about mid act 2. She also had to contend with a Chantry who was used to a woman who made none of her own decisions. On top of that, her plans for reform ran counter to the beliefs of these people. But apparently doing the smart thing and trying to be subtle means she's naive. Her visible presence in Kirkwall, or in other words, putting forth an impression that she wasn't ignoring the mages, was the task of her Seekers. Alas, ordering your block headed Lord Seeker to actually do his job isn't exactly subtle.

 

The Resolutionists got a foothold in the Kirkwall Circle because the mages there felt abused. Had Lambert looked into the situation (and not been incompetent) things might not have gotten as extreme as they did. 

[Banxey]

If we assume that he was seeker during... and nope that doesn't change was divine was doing pissing off both sides during her years in charge pretty much officially she was leader even if destructctive one she didn't had to be one she chose to be 1... she knew very well what is happening...

 

so either she is dumb and naive or just person that want bring chaos and destruction onto world in both cases she need be removed for good...

 

Considering a Seeker has to be made one by the Divine, Lambert had to have been a Seeker before 9:34. And assuming they don't just promote former Imperial Templars to Lord Seeker, he must have been one for a while.

[Mistic]

Considering a Seeker has to be made one by the Divine, Lambert had to have been a Seeker before 9:34. And assuming they don't just promote former Imperial Templars to Lord Seeker, he must have been one for a while.

 

And that's what bugs me about Lambert being Lord Seeker. A former Tevinter Templar, seriously? Someone who came from another religion and served the Magisters got the position, while someone like Cassandra didn't. Of course, we know that Lambert is very zealous about his hate for Tevinter mages, but that makes him even worse for his job, since the Seekers have to policy all higher-ups in the Chantry, not just the mages.

 

If there's really a conspiration, as hinted in Inquisition, maybe someone made sure that the previous Divine, old and senile in her last years, would choose him instead of other, less explosive candidates. That would explain why Justinia didn't trust Lambert, and viceversa.

 

And with good reason. Some like to remember that Justinia sent Leliana to help the mages, undermining Lambert's efforts, but they conveniently forget that long before that Lambert did the same by giving secret orders to Evangeline to murder the mages if they found something "inconvenient".

[Dean_the_Young]

There's also other potential explanations, you know- Lambert could have had a history of successes and competence greater than various other alternatives. Raising an issue with him getting a promotion over Cassandra presumes Cassandra is just as capable as him, but what if she's not? She might rock the boat less, but she may lack other things, character/ability wise or just luck and history.

 

We can also speculate other things- perhaps the conspiracy has been raising the profile and activities of the mage independence radicals as the catalyst, rather than raising Templars. Lambert's selection could have been a reaction to the conspiracy's activities, rather than a reflection of it's influence.

 

Of course, this would be speculation because we know very little. We don't know Lambert or the Seekers' organization history and internal politics. We don't know the standards they use to measure. We don't know what activities and accomplishments they have to consider.

 

 

Personally, the fact that a convert from another religion can rise in the ranks of the Chantry should be  considered a positive indication of the institution's willingness to integrate and consider outside viewpoints and perspectives. It's reactionary and dogmatic insitutions that demand you must have been born in the culture to rise in it.

[azarhal]

And that's what bugs me about Lambert being Lord Seeker. A former Tevinter Templar, seriously? Someone who came from another religion and served the Magisters got the position, while someone like Cassandra didn't. Of course, we know that Lambert is very zealous about his hate for Tevinter mages, but that makes him even worse for his job, since the Seekers have to policy all higher-ups in the Chantry, not just the mages.

 

If there's really a conspiration, as hinted in Inquisition, maybe someone made sure that the previous Divine, old and senile in her last years, would choose him instead of other, less explosive candidates. That would explain why Justinia didn't trust Lambert, and viceversa.

 

And with good reason. Some like to remember that Justinia sent Leliana to help the mages, undermining Lambert's efforts, but they conveniently forget that long before that Lambert did the same by giving secret orders to Evangeline to murder the mages if they found something "inconvenient".

 

I always found Lambert suspicious personally. At the same time, the previous Divine became paranoid of mages after the events of Dawn of the Seeker, so getting her to name a radical Templar at the head of the Seekers (to replace the one killed in DotS) shouldn't have been too hard. I also suspect that Justinia wasn't who the "conspirator(s)" wanted has Divine.

[Mistic]

There's also other potential explanations, you know- Lambert could have had a history of successes and competence greater than various other alternatives. Raising an issue with him getting a promotion over Cassandra presumes Cassandra is just as capable as him, but what if she's not? She might rock the boat less, but she may lack other things, character/ability wise or just luck and history.

 

Yes, it's true that we don't know much about Lambert. We know he had a good career in the Tevinter Templars Order until he became sicked and tired of the magisters' abuse of power. Maybe that past counted as a good cv?

 

But we do know something. Seekers are chosen to be the most loyal to the Chantry and the Divine. It's been stated several times that it's their main requisite. I don't know what Lambert did to prove that (not enough, given the results), but we all know what Cassandra did.

 

We can also speculate other things- perhaps the conspiracy has been raising the profile and activities of the mage independence radicals as the catalyst, rather than raising Templars. Lambert's selection could have been a reaction to the conspiracy's activities, rather than a reflection of it's influence.

 

In fact, I think it's both of them at the same time. After all, it was a mage who tried to murder the Divine in Asunder, and Wynne guessed he had to have more help, perhaps from some templars. Not to talk about the sudden rise of Fiona and her Libertarians in the last years, that surprised even Wynne herself despite having managed to stop a voting for secession in Cumberland.

 

It's been said that many people took advantage of Beatrix III in her last years, but it seems she had enough force of will to recommend the now Justinia V as her successor, despite (or maybe because of?) her "colourful" past. Since the events after Kirkwall have underminded the Divine's power and influence like no other event before, it seems too convenient. My theory is that Justinia V was precisely the spanner in the works for the conspiracy. The other pieces seem to work perfectly, even if they aren't aware of that.

 

But nobody expects the Inquisition.

 

Personally, the fact that a convert from another religion can rise in the ranks of the Chantry should be  considered a positive indication of the institution's willingness to integrate and consider outside viewpoints and perspectives. It's reactionary and dogmatic insitutions that demand you must have been born in the culture to rise in it.

 

Well, it helps that Lambert was still Andrastian and that showed a healthy hate for his previous Tevinter masters. And he's human.

 

By the way, Tevinter must be the less reactionary and dogmatic country in all Thedas, since they accept run-away mages from all over the world and even an elf can become a Magister!

[TheKomandorShepard]

I said seemingly ignoring them. I don't actually think she was ignoring them, you do. She only became Divine in 9:34, which would be somewhere about mid act 2. She also had to contend with a Chantry who was used to a woman who made none of her own decisions. On top of that, her plans for reform ran counter to the beliefs of these people. But apparently doing the smart thing and trying to be subtle means she's naive. Her visible presence in Kirkwall, or in other words, putting forth an impression that she wasn't ignoring the mages, was the task of her Seekers. Alas, ordering your block headed Lord Seeker to actually do his job isn't exactly subtle.

 

The Resolutionists got a foothold in the Kirkwall Circle because the mages there felt abused. Had Lambert looked into the situation (and not been incompetent) things might not have gotten as extreme as they did. 

 

subtle yeah... "my name is leliana and im divine assassin" and everyone knows it lambet as well so please what was smart in her actions she make angry both sides like elthina and was waiting for maker save us all for all time until the end when she let 1 side survive to create world war.She was doing nothing only attacking mages in da 2 latter she started attack and be hostile toward opposite side templars playing big mage friend who understands them it is stupid and naive or as i said she an agent of chaos...  and yep she send leliana so she was knowing what was going around...

 

 

Considering a Seeker has to be made one by the Divine, Lambert had to have been a Seeker before 9:34. And assuming they don't just promote former Imperial Templars to Lord Seeker, he must have been one for a while.

 

Unless previous lord seeker dies like in dawn of the seeker or other thing that makes him impossible to be one.

[dragonflight288]

Yes, it's true that we don't know much about Lambert. We know he had a good career in the Tevinter Templars Order until he became sicked and tired of the magisters' abuse of power. Maybe that past counted as a good cv?

 

But we do know something. Seekers are chosen to be the most loyal to the Chantry and the Divine. It's been stated several times that it's their main requisite. I don't know what Lambert did to prove that (not enough, given the results), but we all know what Cassandra did.

 

 

In fact, I think it's both of them at the same time. After all, it was a mage who tried to murder the Divine in Asunder, and Wynne guessed he had to have more help, perhaps from some templars. Not to talk about the sudden rise of Fiona and her Libertarians in the last years, that surprised even Wynne herself despite having managed to stop a voting for secession in Cumberland.

 

It's been said that many people took advantage of Beatrix III in her last years, but it seems she had enough force of will to recommend the now Justinia V as her successor, despite (or maybe because of?) her "colourful" past. Since the events after Kirkwall have underminded the Divine's power and influence like no other event before, it seems too convenient. My theory is that Justinia V was precisely the spanner in the works for the conspiracy. The other pieces seem to work perfectly, even if they aren't aware of that.

 

But nobody expects the Inquisition.

 

 

Well, it helps that Lambert was still Andrastian and that showed a healthy hate for his previous Tevinter masters. And he's human.

 

By the way, Tevinter must be the less reactionary and dogmatic country in all Thedas, since they accept run-away mages from all over the world and even an elf can become a Magister!

 

While at the same time they enslave mages just as quickly as they would anyone else. 

[Mistic]

While at the same time they enslave mages just as quickly as they would anyone else. 

 

Exactly! See how open-minded Tevinter is?

 

Seriously though, Tevinter is one of the most interesting places in Thedas. So full of extremes... A game set in the imperium must be epic.