It's one of those perspective things, but yeah... I do believe there'd be a problem with it. Ultimately, the templars are supposed to serve the faith and the common good. If a templar sycophant is put on the sacred throne, it'd be the faith serving the templars in practise. No checks and balances, Those things tend to crash and burn.
I said nothing of having a Templar upon the Sunburst throne, i said them having authority over the Chruch when it comes to the Circle.
There is a problem with this?
The Templars should have more authority over the Chruch, at least in matters pertaining to the Circle.
Considering the abuses of the templars and the idiocy of your boy Lambert are a large part of the reason we are in this mess? yes that is a problem!
And that coming from someone who believes the templars are needed and that mages don't need to be running around willy nilly.
Nope. Nope. Nope.
Yes!
YES!
YES!
It's one of those perspective things, but yeah... I do believe there'd be a problem with it. Ultimately, the templars are supposed to serve the faith and the common good. If a templar sycophant is put on the sacred throne, it'd be the faith serving the templars in practise. No checks and balances, Those things tend to crash and burn.
They served common good protecting world from mages but it is rather obvious that divine is naive when it comes about dangers that mages present (well she is naive) and ultimately she lead to world war overthrowing so insane and incompetent ruler is sane thing to do.
I said nothing of having a Templar upon the Sunburst throne, i said them having authority over the Chruch when it comes to the Circle.
But see... the templars wouldn't sell themselves short even if they did get a supporter on the throne. They'd put in a measure to prevent something like Justinia happening ever again. Which means real power over doctrine. Power over the sunburst throne itself.
Both Grand Clerics presented thus far have had massive Political power vested within their Station, Even Elithina whom was in only a singular Freemarch city was quite strong in the affinity of being able to direct events, My point is this. There isnt' anything to suggest that the Divine would be more popular or known by default then a Grand Cleric in most Andrastian Nations, Given most would likely see the Cleric far more often then the Divine, and likely hear their pronoucements again far more often then the Divine, the only singular duty a Divine has that spreads the message across Thedas is the pronoucing of a new Age.
And Denoucing may or may not occcur, i am of the mind it isn't overly far fetched but it need be done, Ignoring the Chantry in Orlais and telling a diffrent message regionally would be enough.
1) I imagine all sermons in Chantry's start with some reference in name to the Divine and May Andraste watch over her.
2) Most people don't attend a chantry with a grand cleric. Most just have a revered mother.
3) Political power wasn't what I was meaning.
4) Again, if your goal is to improve the chantry, airing its dirty laundry in your sermons isn't the way to go about it.
5) At this point no Divine that we are aware of has been removed from the position except by death. So this would not be a thing approached lightly.
Considering the abuses of the templars and the idiocy of your boy Lambert are a large part of the reason we are in this mess? yes that is a problem!
And that coming from someone who believes the templars are needed and that mages don't need to be running around willy nilly.
o-o
The Order should be absolute within its Baliwick.
Its voice should be above even that of the Chantry, Because it is not the Chantry has to deal with the day to day of maintaining and running a circle, the Templars know the local situation far better then those within the Chruch would, I am not saying remove the Chantry from the Equation, just the opposite, i'd like them to concetrete their efforts together to make the Circle more secure.
I am just stating that the Templars should have absolute Authority over the Circle, There should be controls put in place obviously, a few checks and balances, to weed out the worst of the corruption but minor abuses aside, i'd say leaving the situational control to the troops on the ground is wise decision until the Threater demands otherwise.
o-o
The Order should be absolute within its Baliwick.
Its voice should be above even that of the Chantry, Because it is not the Chantry has to deal with the day to day of maintaining and running a circle, the Templars know the local situation far better then those within the Chruch would, I am not saying remove the Chantry from the Equation, just the opposite, i'd like them to concetrete their efforts together to make the Circle more secure.
I am just stating that the Templars should have absolute Authority over the Circle, There should be controls put in place obviously, a few checks and balances, to weed out the worst of the corruption but minor abuses aside, i'd say leaving the situational control to the troops on the ground is wise decision until the Threater demands otherwise.
How does that work? You want them to have absolute power, but also have checks and balances in place. By definition of the word absolute, you can't have both.
They served common good protecting world from mages but it is rather obvious that divine is naive when it comes about dangers that mages present (well she is naive) and ultimately she lead to world war overthrowing so insane and incompetent ruler is sane thing to do.
Alright TKS, we will try your way of debating.
It is obvious Lambert is a power hungry fool who lets his own pride and hubris let him be played like a fiddle by a mage who wasn't even a 1st enchanter.
Wow it is fun stating opinions as facts, what else can I say....
It is obvious that if Templars in Kirkwall weren't abusive monsters most of those events wouldn't have occurred, because it is so OBVIOUS.
It is obvious that if Lambert wouldn't have been power hungry he would have cooperated with the Divine, because it is OBVIOUS to me so it must be FACT!
Because it is obvious that I am right!
o-o
The Order should be absolute within its Baliwick.
Its voice should be above even that of the Chantry, Because it is not the Chantry has to deal with the day to day of maintaining and running a circle, the Templars know the local situation far better then those within the Chruch would, I am not saying remove the Chantry from the Equation, just the opposite, i'd like them to concetrete their efforts together to make the Circle more secure.
I am just stating that the Templars should have absolute Authority over the Circle, There should be controls put in place obviously, a few checks and balances, to weed out the worst of the corruption but minor abuses aside, i'd say leaving the situational control to the troops on the ground is wise decision until the Threater demands otherwise.
But that is the problem, the Templars have sadly already demonstrated a lack of ability to handle corruption and abuses. I am not promage at all as you well know, but the behaviors that were tolerated in Kirkwall are beyond the pall, regardless of what was going on on the mage side. I even sided with the Templars on my first play through, but that didn't change the issues I had with the Templars.
Yes!
YES!
YES!
Not just no. Hell to the no.
But see... the templars wouldn't sell themselves short even if they did get a supporter on the throne. They'd put in a measure to prevent something like Justinia happening ever again. Which means real power over doctrine. Power over the sunburst throne itself.
And?
As i said i am not opposed to mutual cooperation, i am just a fan of hands off governece .
Leaving control with the Templars, and giving them a few measures to check and control behavior and outbursts seems like a fair trade off for securing the circles in the aftermath of the rebellion, a few generations down the line we can see about loosening a few restrictions.
1) I imagine all sermons in Chantry's start with some reference in name to the Divine and May Andraste watch over her.
2) Most people don't attend a chantry with a grand cleric. Most just have a revered mother.
3) Political power wasn't what I was meaning.
4) Again, if your goal is to improve the chantry, airing its dirty laundry in your sermons isn't the way to go about it.
5) At this point no Divine that we are aware of has been removed from the position except by death. So this would not be a thing approached lightly.
1. I have read the majority of the known Canticles and i will say pointledy there isn't much mentioning Divine's, i think one Templar stated something to the effect of "In the name of Andraste and all the DIvine after her." But that was about it, Also it was Ser Otto who said that.
2. Kirkwall was rather lucky in that regard wasn't it? But Denerim and the other capitals contain within them the very people both the Templars and these renegade Clerics and Mothers need win over, My point is that. Peasants are great and having their backing is wonderful, but getting the Nobility to drew their sword for one way or another wins wars.
3. I was just pointing out that two of them had it in spades.
4. It does however draw a very clear line in the sand.
5. It would need to be approached, but given Lambert had notion of her being replaced upon his return, i'd assume there is a process for their removal. He even when he had cause to do so, didn't combat the Divine, so it was obvious he didn't mean assasination.
.
Alright TKS, we will try your way of debating.
It is obvious Lambert is a power hungry fool who lets his own pride and hubris let him be played like a fiddle by a mage who wasn't even a 1st enchanter.
Wow it is fun stating opinions as facts, what else can I say....
It is obvious that if Templars in Kirkwall weren't abusive monsters most of those events wouldn't have occurred, because it is so OBVIOUS.
It is obvious that if Lambert wouldn't have been power hungry he would have cooperated with the Divine, because it is OBVIOUS to me so it must be FACT!
Because it is obvious that I am right!
haha do you talking about adrian?
lol it is stupidest thing that pro-mages would make up it is like saying that i control police because they arrested me if i killed someone oh im so diabolical mastermind mahaha don't mention that adrian would have lost if not divine who freed her...
And again we have 2 abusive templars in kirkwall thats all you have so you are making up things...
he wasn't power hungry he wanted save world sadly he failed because of divine who allowed world war to start.
How does that work? You want them to have absolute power, but also have checks and balances in place. By definition of the word absolute, you can't have both.
Token Measures that really don't matter.
So in THEORY there would be checks in balances, in PRACTICE there wouldn't be.
I should have clarified i suppose.
And?
As i said i am not opposed to mutual cooperation, i am just a fan of hands off governece .
Leaving control with the Templars, and giving them a few measures to check and control behavior and outbursts seems like a fair trade off for securing the circles in the aftermath of the rebellion, a few generations down the line we can see about loosening a few restrictions.
1. I have read the majority of the known Canticles and i will say pointledy there isn't much mentioning Divine's, i think one Templar stated something to the effect of "In the name of Andraste and all the DIvine after her." But that was about it, Also it was Ser Otto who said that.
2. Kirkwall was rather lucky in that regard wasn't it? But Denerim and the other capitals contain within them the very people both the Templars and these renegade Clerics and Mothers need win over, My point is that. Peasants are great and having their backing is wonderful, but getting the Nobility to drew their sword for one way or another wins wars.
3. I was just pointing out that two of them had it in spades.
4. It does however draw a very clear line in the sand.
5. It would need to be approached, but given Lambert had notion of her being replaced upon his return, i'd assume there is a process for their removal. He even when he had cause to do so, didn't combat the Divine, so it was obvious he didn't mean assasination.
.
The bible doesn't say anything about the Pope. Canticles aren't sermons.
Not just no. Hell to the no.
This is Delicious!
Token Measures that really don't matter.
So in THEORY there would be checks in balances, in PRACTICE there wouldn't be.
I should have clarified i suppose.
In that case, I oppose this system. Nobody should have absolute power over others. History, both ours and Dragon Age's, has shown what happens when that is the case. As the old saying goes, "If power corrupts, then absolute power corrupts absolutely."
haha do you talking about adrian?
lol it is stupidest thing that pro-mages would make up it is like saying that i control police because they arrested me if i killed someone oh im so diabolical mastermind mahaha don't mention that adrian would have lost if not divine who freed her...
And again we have 2 abusive templars in kirkwall thats all you have so you are making up things...
he wasn't power hungry he wanted save world sadly he failed because of divine who allowed world war to start.
Yes, Adrian played him. Her entire goal was to get him to come in there and go after Rhys and guess what he did. She wasn't worried about what happened to them, she knew the other circles would rebel.
And I am hardly promage TKS.
I am really regretting not helping the Architect with his scheme, maybe I can track him down and make everyone darkspawn, that would give me some relief......
Yes, Adrian played him. Her entire goal was to get him to come in there and go after Rhys and guess what he did. She wasn't worried about what happened to them, she knew the other circles would rebel.
And I am hardly promage TKS.
I am really regretting not helping the Architect with his scheme, maybe I can track him down and make everyone darkspawn, that would give me some relief......
It's TKS. Unless you support the genocide of mages, you are Pro-Mage in his eyes.
No. No. No.
The Chantry and Templars need absolute power over the mages.
Because mages are not people and cannot be treated as such. They do not bleed when you cut them, they do not scream when you scare them, they do not starve if you do not feed them.
Thus anything and everything is justifiable under the banner of "protection" of the innocent flowerpicking denizens of Thedas.
In that case, I oppose this system. Nobody should have absolute power over others. History, both ours and Dragon Age's, has shown what happens when that is the case. As the old saying goes, "If power corrupts, then absolute power corrupts absolutely."
I also said the system wouldn't need be permenant, just in the aftermath of war, You cannot allow token freedoms and liberties cause such devestation and then allow sentiment of it to fester within what is meant to be Pristine.
I am not a fan of fighting the same battles twice, why put down a rebellion only to have to fight it again in fifteen years?
No. No. No.
The Chantry and Templars need absolute power over the mages.
Because mages are not people and cannot be treated as such. They do not bleed when you cut them, they do not scream when you scare them, they do not starve if you do not feed them.
Thus anything and everything is justifiable under the banner of "protection" of the innocent flowerpicking denizens of Thedas.
Just so!
In that case, I oppose this system. Nobody should have absolute power over others. History, both ours and Dragon Age's, has shown what happens when that is the case. As the old saying goes, "If power corrupts, then absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Better have peoples who abuse minority than minority abusing entire world
Yes, Adrian played him. Her entire goal was to get him to come in there and go after Rhys and guess what he did. She wasn't worried about what happened to them, she knew the other circles would rebel.
And I am hardly promage TKS.
I am really regretting not helping the Architect with his scheme, maybe I can track him down and make everyone darkspawn, that would give me some relief......
Lol as i said it is dumb as hell it is like saying that i play police because they arested me for murder... not at all lambert defeated her and her rebelion until divine came and well world war sponsored by mages...
it was brought by pro-mages to make adrian like mastermind thats your call if you follow their steps but it isn't in case as i said if you kill someone and police arrested you and you expected doesn't mean that you are mastermind or that you played police because they did what do you expect...
It's TKS. Unless you support the genocide of mages, you are Pro-Mage in his eyes.
Nope i meant that it was something pro-mages pulled out of their...
I also said the system wouldn't need be permenant, just in the aftermath of war, You cannot allow token freedoms and liberties cause such devestation and then allow sentiment of it to fester within what is meant to be Pristine.
I am not a fan of fighting the same battles twice, why put down a rebellion only to have to fight it again in fifteen years?
That's even worse. Let's give the pissed off Templars who lost friends to the mages absolute power over the mages. Yeah, that'll end well.
Better have peoples who abuse minority than minority abusing entire world
Lol as i said it is dumb as hell it is like saying that i play police because they arested me for murder... not at all lambert defeated her and her rebelion until divine came and well world war sponsored by mages...
it was brought by pro-mages to make adrian like mastermind thats your call if you follow their steps but it isn't in case as i said if you kill someone and police arrested you and you expected doesn't mean that you are mastermind or that you played police because they did what do you expect...
But he didn't arrest her did he? No he came after the entire wrong person and setoff the rebellion. If he had waited, Wynne would have succeeded in talking them down like she did before.
Retour en haut