1605 réponses à ce sujet

[Mistic]

He gave the suggestion to the Knight Captain that under the scenario that results had been achieved, it would be for the best they remain lost,furthermore I'm starting to question if you have even read his reasoning for giving the assignment to Evangeline in the first place. He made it perfectly clear that while the research in his eye likely would possibly be continued under careful templar monitoring if it proved useful, the situation as it sat wouldn't be a good place for its introduction, and magically what do you know? He was right.

 

Related to the thing you mentioned before about higher-ups standing to their bosses, why didn't he try to go to the Divine herself? Tell her his problems with the current plan, propose alternatives, heck, even when Fiona derailed the Conclave he could have done the lawful thing: only the Divine can call it or call it off, so go to the Divine while the mages are still arguing.

 

L: "Your Holiness, the Libertarians are derailing the conclave. Again".

J: "Damn".

 

He had many lawful tools at his disposal. Why didn't he use them as Lord Seeker? If the answer is because he was afraid the Divine would say 'no', he was already failing as a Seeker, since only after that 'no' you would have evidence that your boss is unfit to rule.

 

By the way, where are the assassins who tried to kill the Divine? That was his prime duty in the White Spire, after all.

 

Those Divine Supporters are just jealous of his Seeker Swag.

 

 

I don't agree with you on many things about Lambert, Master Warder Z, but he really is one of the most interesting characters to appear in the DA franchise. Judging from the preview of The Masked Empire, the list is going to increase.

[Master Warder Z_]

I don't agree with you on many things about Lambert, Master Warder Z, but he really is one of the most interesting characters to appear in the DA franchise. Judging from the preview of The Masked Empire, the list is going to increase.

 

I'd say he is likely one of my favorite characters despite not over much being known about him, pity he may be dead, sort of hard to get backstory and new events out of a corpse.

[Master Warder Z_]

Related to the thing you mentioned before about higher-ups standing to their bosses, why didn't he try to go to the Divine herself? Tell her his problems with the current plan, propose alternatives, heck, even when Fiona derailed the Conclave he could have done the lawful thing: only the Divine can call it or call it off, so go to the Divine while the mages are still arguing.

 

L: "Your Holiness, the Libertarians are derailing the conclave. Again".

J: "Damn".

 

He had many lawful tools at his disposal. Why didn't he use them as Lord Seeker? If the answer is because he was afraid the Divine would say 'no', he was already failing as a Seeker, since only after that 'no' you would have evidence that your boss is unfit to rule..

 

While this matter is entirely speculative given you have requested my opinion of it, you shall hear it.

 

He likely did broach the subject with the Divine during his meeting with her in the aftermath of the Conclave while her agents were murdering Templars doing their duty and aiding in the escape of criminals, given that in his letter he confirmed he visited with her and i'd assume he very much tried to convince the Divine there and then that, Her position was only going to making things worse. I'd like to believe that he tried every tool in his arsenal to get her to soften her position and possibly alter her way of thinking.

 

But nothing was changed there as the letter implied, and what does he find when he returns to the Circle? Probably the second most shaking betrayal of his life, there wasn't much left for him to do besides annul the accord then and there.

 

But if you are questioning his decision to aid in the arrest of Rhys and the ceasing of the Conclave? His duty was to apprehend the possible victim of demonic influence and given that Cumberland was ended not by Divine Decree but by Knight Commander Order, he likely was obligated to stay and end the Slanderous rant of Fiona.

 

 

By the way, where are the assassins who tried to kill the Divine? That was his prime duty in the White Spire, after all.

 

 

This matter is also entirely subjective but again I'll grant you my personal musings.

 

The process could have continued, but as we all know the Arrival of Wynne with her orders forestalled the process, we do not know if it resumed or not, but before that he was investigating it, he was looking into the blood mages Libertarian buddies and perhaps if not interrupted something could have came of it, we just honestly don't know if the process was continued and if any progress was made on it.

[wcholcombe]

Seems to be more you're own mantra FOR them, rather then their own.

Yeah, that is my view.  And like most I apply it to others

[Mistic]

I'd say he is likely one of my favorite characters despite not over much being known about him, pity he may be dead, sort of hard to get backstory and new events out of a corpse.

 

Think positive. If he was possessed by Cole, there's still a chance to save him! The same happened to Connor and Faramond. Of course, you'd need a mage to do that. Think of the irony!

 

The process could have continued, but as we all know the Arrival of Wynne with her orders forestalled the process, we do not know if it resumed or not, but before that he was investigating it, he was looking into the blood mages Libertarian buddies and perhaps if not interrupted something could have came of it, we just honestly don't know if the process was continued and if any progress was made on it.

 

My opinion of Lambert would have been better had he been more dilligent about this task. Especially if there is a conspiration behind all these events. I look forward to Inquisition to unveil it.

 

But maybe I'm too strong on Lambert. The only other Seeker we know is Cassandra, who is almost the embodiment of what the ideal Seeker should be.

 

Cassandra: "Damn mages, hate mages, they're dangerous, blood mages killed my brother..."

Random citizen: "Look, someone is trying to kill the Divine!"

Cassandra: "For the Chantry!"

(Awesome killing of dragons ensues)

 

Since Cassandra and her men are in the minority, it seems the Seekers were already lost before Lambert did anything. That's why I suggested that the Inquisition may take their place after DA:I. Not as templars, not as mage, not as the Chantry, not as "super heroes of the (insert prefered racial minority here)", but as inquisitors of everything related to magic and keepers of the system.

[wcholcombe]

Think positive. If he was possessed by Cole, there's still a chance to save him! The same happened to Connor and Faramond. Of course, you'd need a mage to do that. Think of the irony!

 

 

My opinion of Lambert would have been better had he been more dilligent about this task. Especially if there is a conspiration behind all these events. I look forward to Inquisition to unveil it.

 

But maybe I'm too strong on Lambert. The only other Seeker we know is Cassandra, who is almost the embodiment of what the ideal Seeker should be.

 

Cassandra: "Damn mages, hate mages, they're dangerous, blood mages killed my brother..."

Random citizen: "Look, someone is trying to kill the Divine!"

Cassandra: "For the Chantry!"

(Awesome killing of dragons ensues)

 

Since Cassandra and her men are in the minority, it seems the Seekers were already lost before Lambert did anything. That's why I suggested that the Inquisition may take their place after DA:I. Not as templars, not as mage, not as the Chantry, not as "super heroes of the (insert prefered racial minority here)", but as inquisitors of everything related to magic and keepers of the system.

well the 1st inquisition referred to itself as the seekers of truth, so there you go.

[dragonflight288]

Nice debate guys. It's fascinating.

 

@wwholcomb, I love your signature. 

[wcholcombe]

Nice debate guys. It's fascinating.

 

@wwholcomb, I love your signature. 

Thanks! It kind of defines me and is probably why I like the middle ground. To me everyone can be made happy!!!!!!!!!

 

 

If not I get to watch my pet armored ogre eat them which at least makes me happy.

[Master Warder Z_]

Nice debate guys. It's fascinating.

 

@wwholcomb, I love your signature. 

 

Aa i enjoy debate but positions, stances and what have you rarely shift.

 

Not much point in besides just passing time in my eye.

 

But Lambert and the Independent Templar Movement is something i will defend as best i am able.

[wcholcombe]

But Lambert and the Independent Templar Movement is something i will defend as best i am able.

I don't know if you sound more like Lob or Xil when you say that

[Master Warder Z_]

I don't know if you sound more like Lob or Xil when you say that

 

We all have our flags.

 

I'd like to say i am more Moderate then Xil and i lack Lob's obvious passion, for me? Its characters and arguments i like that lead me.

 

Not some notion of how "the world should be."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You know Fiona and Lambert are literally the same character in different sides. They have so much in common.

 

Its fanaticism to support one without seeing the other one's point. Though Fiona has been an author's favorite but that's not the point.

Agreed. If Lambert was in Fiona's shoes and Fiona in Lambert's, I can see a very similar result occurring.

[wcholcombe]

Agreed. If Lambert was in Fiona's shoes and Fiona in Lambert's, I can see a very similar result occurring.

Mostly yes.  They are both fairly fanatical about it. Though I will give Lambert credit, he will do it with far more style.

[wcholcombe]

We all have our flags.

 

I'd like to say i am more Moderate then Xil and i lack Lob's obvious passion, for me? Its characters and arguments i like that lead me.

 

Not some notion of how "the world should be."

True, I am surprised thought that your quote isn't the one where Lambert has tea poured, that is by far my favorite line of his.

[Mistic]

True, I am surprised thought that your quote isn't the one where Lambert has tea poured, that is by far my favorite line of his.

 

Which quote?

[wcholcombe]

Which quote?

I don't know, I may be misremembering, I thought there was some point in Asunder where Lambert summoned someone and when they got there the first thing he did was order them to pour tea, but I may be confused.

[Master Warder Z_]

Amazing how this thread was a lot more lively when we were discussing Lambert then it ever was when we were discussing Justinia.

 

Man should get his own thread if he ever pops up again.

[Lulupab]

Mostly yes.  They are both fairly fanatical about it. Though I will give Lambert credit, he will do it with far more style.

 
Depends on your definition of "style".
 
Vanquisher of brood mothers and savior of our comrade Ducnan I'd say that is enough style. Duncan named an axe after her! Its called Fiona and available in rogue pack for DA2.
 
Also they were the supreme leader of each side too. Grand Enchanter and Lord Seeker.

[wcholcombe]

Depends on your definition of "style".

 

Vanquisher of brood mothers and savior of our comrade Ducnan I'd say that is enough style. Duncan named an axe after her! Its called Fiona and available in rogue pack for DA2.

 

Also they were the supreme leader of each side too. Grand Enchanter and Lord Seeker.

sorry, I was thinking Adrian.  I see Adrian as Lambert's opposite.  Fionna is more Wynne's opposite. There are limits to what Fionna and Wynne will do for what they believe, not so much Adrian and Lambert.  And yes Adrian has all of the style of a sledge hammer.

[Lulupab]

sorry, I was thinking Adrian.  I see Adrian as Lambert's opposite.  Fionna is more Wynne's opposite. There are limits to what Fionna and Wynne will do for what they believe, not so much Adrian and Lambert.  And yes Adrian has all of the style of a sledge hammer.

Hmm that could work too What bothers me most however is people accusing Fiona of not having a plan. We simply cannot claim this as the narrator of story is not omniscient (like most postmodern novels) therefore we never enter her thoughts directly. That's what makes postmodern novels more interesting. We can be fully surprised. There is NO evidence of her not having a plan.

 

Granted I believe she had a plan all along. Whether it was an alliance with grey wardens or something else remains to be seen.

[wcholcombe]

Hmm that could work too What bothers me most however is people accusing Fiona of not having a plan. We simply cannot claim this as the narrator of story is not omniscient (like most postmodern novels) therefore we never enter her thoughts directly. That's what makes postmodern novels more interesting. We can be fully surprised. There is NO evidence of her not having a plan.

 

Granted I believe she had a plan all along. Whether it was an alliance with grey wardens or something else remains to be seen.

Now that is a bit of a stretch in that regard. Not saying that isn't the case, but just that I don't see it from what we know.  think Fiona was largely centered on finding a way to bring that vote about.  I am split as to whether or not she was in on Adrian's scheme, but I honestly feel that she was so concentrated on getting that independence to the exclusion of all else to truly feel she had some great plan for what to do afterwards.  Rhys says in the follow up that Andorals reach wasn't a planned thing, it came about organically and mages just started coming there.

 

I think if Fiona had had a grander plan, she would have been much more willing to let the Divinne/Wynne plan play out a bit before making her move.

[dragonflight288]

Now that is a bit of a stretch in that regard. Not saying that isn't the case, but just that I don't see it from what we know.  think Fiona was largely centered on finding a way to bring that vote about.  I am split as to whether or not she was in on Adrian's scheme, but I honestly feel that she was so concentrated on getting that independence to the exclusion of all else to truly feel she had some great plan for what to do afterwards.  Rhys says in the follow up that Andorals reach wasn't a planned thing, it came about organically and mages just started coming there.

 

I think if Fiona had had a grander plan, she would have been much more willing to let the Divinne/Wynne plan play out a bit before making her move.

 

Unless she had a secret deal with some group or bunch of nobles that can only work IF the Circle's are free of Chantry and Templar supervision. 

[Rinshikai10]

Fiona may still have contacts with the Wardens in the Anderfels. That may be a group that would benefit from the Circles being autonomous. At least in the Anderfels.

 

I think that when it comes down to it Justinia needs the Clergy, Mages, and Templars to work with her in order to reshape the Chantry to what she believe was right. However, no one really seems to trust her.

 

The biggest problem in my view is she only trusts Leliana and Wynne with this plan she has created. Which backfires on Wynne after see starts to realize that she won't have the influence she had from the last two votes she stopped. While Leliana just seems like a tool of Justinia, with little influence over others.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[Mistic]

Fiona may still have contacts with the Wardens in the Anderfels. That may be a group that would benefit from the Circles being autonomous. At least in the Anderfels.

 

I don't think the Wardens would take part in the Mage-Templar war. Neutrality. If they didn't help when Kirkwall was attacked by the Qunari, a nation that hasn't taken part in the Warden accords, why should they interfere in matters concerning to subjects of nations that do recognize Warden rights?

 

The biggest problem in my view is she only trusts Leliana and Wynne with this plan she has created. Which backfires on Wynne after see starts to realize that she won't have the influence she had from the last two votes she stopped. While Leliana just seems like a tool of Justinia, with little influence over others.

 

That was a failure, true. Less people in your inner circle means less leaks if you want to keep something secret, but less people also means less support if things go awry. This is the Dragon Age; things always go awry, even a Blight (from the darkspawn point of view, of course).

[Rinshikai10]

I agree that the Wardens would not take part in the M/T war. However, if the Circles did become autonomous it may make it easier for them to recruit Mages into the ranks. (Opinion)

 

Now that the war has started I don't believe that Justinia can do much of anything, other then looking for people that can persuade others to stand with her. While looking for the Warden or Hawke may help, (depending on how players played) or be counter productive, if they have no love for the Chantry.