452 réponses à ce sujet

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

^Simple challenge the Quarians to an epic dance off for ownership of Rannoch.

Or a rock battle.

(Has long since stopped taking any of this seriously)

[Rip504]

remydat wrote...

You did state Phatose covered it. Why should the Geth care about innocent life? Are you even serious?

The Heretics ARE Geth. Lmao. I am not blaming the Geth for the actions of the Geth. I am holding the Geth accountable for their actions. Just one time prove something to me. Find me stating anywhere that I do not hold Organics accountable for their actions. You can not,because it is untrue. My point is to hold those responsible for certain choices and history accountable. Not to condone a race condemning entire species for the actions of a few. Not all organics condemn the Geth or Synthetic life. Still the Geth never tried for peace and took stances against it.

It is a poor interpretation and the Geth are not proven right. It contradicts your very statements about Quarians whom are considered Geth sympathizers seen in the Geth's own memory.  Or Koris pushing for peace and Legion dismissing it. Also giving the Quarians no reason to believe peace is an option. The Quarians protecting the Geth could have potentially defeated their unsuspecting Geth and chose not to. They chose to support and protect their Geth rather then violently slaughtering billions. The Geth have examples of both and only choose to believe what they wish. The statement is also untrue for the rest of organic life within the ME universe. Whom do the Turians think they could not defeat in war? Combined with the Council allies? They choose to mistrust organics based off of limited knowledge. They choose violence and Isolation.

Geth understand emotions. They may not have any emotions,but do understand and admire at least some emotions. What reason do they have to leave it destroyed and polluted? This is your interpretation with no backing. Yet the N7 armor does not prove emotion. I am not against the Geth having emotion and could care less either way. They still show no remorse in the slaughter of billions or their continued violent and isolated history. They chose it. Organics did not force it. I am trying to have a discussion dealing in facts,not your interpretations. I have "clearly" stated a multitude of things that seem unclear to you. Also you just stated the burden of proof is on you. So prove the Geth have emotion. Wait you said you could not prove it as it is not a fact in game. Yet the lack of feeling emotion and lack of emotion is clearly stated within the franchise.

The Geth have not tried for peace,of course they can't do it alone. It is slightly absurd to ask the Quarians to be the ones whom do it alone,when the Geth have shown a willingness to be violent and kill ships entering their space. Legion needs more data? How about the Quarians? The Geth have shown 300 years of violence,isolation and yea the willingness to attack and kill organics when they feel they can be victorious.The Geth can not solely blame organics for their actions. Who said anything about crying or emotion or Reaper code? Not me,so why toss it around pointlessly? Are you really having trouble with Accept responsibility for their actions? Geth killed billions,Geth help create synthetic fear and hate,Geth chose isolation,Geth chose violence,Geth chose the Reapers as allies,etc. The Geth did these things as well as others,not organics. Why blame or hold organics responsible for these actions when the Geth are the ones whom "clearly" are responsible for these actions. They have no allies accept the Reapers because they chose to. The Geth have also held on to a grudge for 300 plus years,and blame all organics.

The Geth are not responsible for their crimes,the Organics made them do it. Seriously? Really?

Dodge it as much as you want. The Geth have a history of violence and isolation. A history they chose. Still all of this is pre ME3. No one ever asked for them to roll over and die. Seriously?  The Quairans are trying to reclaim their homeworld from a hostile Synthetic force,Humanity must be solely made up of monsters.

Ps. Also your response left a few questions unanswered as usual. Prove to me that all council races condone the actions of the current or previous councils. What about non council organic whom have never attacked synthetics? Now you state because they did not do the Geth's job the Geth should not care about the slaughter of Innocent life?  What reason have the Geth given to not hate or fear synthetic life? What peaceful intentions have they shown? Did a "collective" intelligence separate or put value on "individual" life? Discussed with EDI. Perhaps that is why they do not care about those innocents lifes we were talking about.  Why should one expect peace when one is not trying and is taking steps to isolate themselves with violence.? The Quarians did not expect peace,one because few peaceful attempts have ever been made with the Geth,and in which all failed. Two the Geth violently kill any organic they please. Again Isolation and murder are not signs or attempts at peaceful relations/intentions. Considering it lasted for 300 years it is even less so.

Modifié par Rip504, 24 avril 2013 - 01:20 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Adult HUMAN standards. That's STILL double-standards. And AGAIN, killing someone in self-defense is NOT the same as taking a machine gun and mowing down everyone one the block along with him. Something you continue to condone. That DOES make you a literal douche if you support not feeling remorse for the mass slaughter of billions of innocent civilians. Trust me, the geth have PLENTY to be remorseful for.

So then why to you begrudge the quarians when THEY were in the exact same position? One avalible option with no other way out visible? And the geth feel bad about the quarians dying, NOT the geth's killing of the defensless quarian civilians.

And AGAIN, dead wrong. The geth HAD alternitives to mass slaughter. They did not take them. The Council didn't have alternitives with the krogan. Big differnece. I feel the same way about the krogan - alternitives presant, but ignored.

As to organc screw-ups:
I blame the Turians for having such harsh policies, and for attacking humans at Shanxi for the drop of a dime. That was straight-up agression.
I blame the drell for the devestation of their own world. They overindustrilized and it killed them.
I blame the asari for hiding prothean tech for 20,000 years when they were the ones that wrote the rule that hiding that tech was illegal.
I blame the krogan for not listening to negotiation and practally bringing the genophage down on themselves.
I blame the protheans for their imperilistic conquests and the lives that could have been spared had they been more gentle.
I blame the Reapers for becomeing part of the very problem they were created to solve without ever realizing it.

So, feel free to stop being so condesending.

Do you now know the definition of a double standard.  A double standard is having one rule for one group and another rule for another group.  In other words, a double standard is what you are proposing ie judge humans and quarians differently.  I am in fact apply the same standard to them. That standard is you shouldn't go around killing things because they ask if they have a soul.  Doesn't matter who it is.

I don't condone anything because I saw no evidence of the Geth taking a machine gun and mowing down everyone.  I don't know or sawwhat exactly happened in the MW.  What were the alterantives?

And the Council could have done what the Salarians wanted which is use it as a DETERRENT.  How can you say they did not have alternatives when the game makes clear the Salarians did not want to deploy it but the Turians did so forcibly?  Clearly the Salarian and Turian who objected thought there may be alternatives.

I note in your list of things you blame organics for, the Quarians are conspicuously absent.  That tells me all I need to know really.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

I have to pick Destroy, but you can always re-create the Geth afterwards.

Geth>Quarians.

[remydat]

Rip504

Why would the Geth believe they are innocent?  There only experience with organics is them trying to kill them.  The ones that tried to help them were killed by their own people.  The harmless AI on the Citadel was killed shortly thereafter.  Provide me with a single article anytime from the time the MW ended to now where someone defended a synthetics right to live and were not killed?  So when these ships come claiming peace, why should the Geth believe them.  They have an army outside Geth space, no one has been in the Veil to know where the Geth are positioned and how large their fleets are.  Why would the Geth allow a ship to enter the PV when that ship can collect data on Geth positions in advance of an organic war against them?  Why would they let them leave with that intell?  Why should they accept the claim of peace as if organics have never gathered intel on an enemy while claiming to come in peace? 

Also, do the people that killed billions of Krogan babies with the Genophage think those babies are innocent?  If so, why do they still kill them?

And Legion never dismisses peace with Koris.  This is a complete fabrication.  He says the Geth would need more data because the Quarians keep attacking them when they think they can win.  Legion is proven prophetic in ME3.  Koris asked, and Legion provided the condition for peace.  The Quarians rejected it in favor of war.  Or did I miss where the Quarians provided evidence they had peaceful intentions.  If so, please provide a link.

The Council and Turians are not stupid.  Why would they launch a war when they have no idea about the numbers of the enemy, where they are stationed, etc..  They have no idea precisely because NO SHIP ENTERING THE PV HAS EVER COME BACK.  You have basically explained why shooting those ships are a viable option if you don't trust organics.  So just like the Quarians dont trust the Geth, why should the Geth trust the Council who says they should not exist?  They are isolated becuase they have no proof the Council is not claiming peace so that they can gather intell for war.

Legion says we regret the death of the creators but we see no other way.  What does that mean to you?  If you don't want to believe it then don't.  However, I am not under any obligation to not believe as well.  Before the RC, the Geth can't articulate their emotions.  That is why when pressed on the Armor, Legion says no data available.  He does not possess the ability to process and explain that emotion.  The fact they clean up the planet and say perhaps we do it for the Quarians suggest they feel somthing.  However, once Legion gets RC suddenly he hangs his head in SHAME when Shep he lied and he says they REGRET the death of the creators during the Rannoch ending.  You are free to assume those emotions just magically appear.  Personally, I think that those times were No Data Available or Perhps we do it for them were said are now events he can now describe because of the RC.

Geth did not help create synthetic fear and hate.  IT was there before they were born.  You can say they helped exacerbate that hate but no they did not create it.  The Geth are responsible for their crimes.  Doesn't mean the Quarians are not also to blame.  More than one group can share blame in a crime.

[Rip504]

remydat wrote...

Why would the Geth believe they are innocent?  There only experience with organics is them trying to kill them.  
  So when these ships come claiming peace, why should the Geth believe them.  Why should they accept the claim of peace as if organics have never gathered intel on an enemy while claiming to come in peace? 

Wrong.
Then the Quarians had no other choice,since Geth do not believe peace is a possibility.
Does not in any way justify murder for 300 years and no attempts at peace of any kind. At least Organics tried. If these ships entered the Veil looking for peace,then those are Organics accepting synthetic life.  You state but can not prove what these ships were or the real intentions of the Geth. That is an interpretation. Game does state the Geth chose isolation and ships entering the veil were killed. Their intent was to remain isolated. Then the Geth try to condemn organics? Really?
Who cares about the Genophage? How does the point relate? I am not justifying the loss of innocent life due to one's own ignorance(Geth),you are.
What do you think Legion. The Geth need more data. Dismissal. Prove the Geth had accepted peace or shown signs of the same. "Double standard." lol
Legion states Quarians attack 100% of the time when they think victory is a possibility. One can say this is untrue or stretched,yet what I said was the same reasoning does not apply to the rest of the galaxy. You again did not answer any question thus far.  The Geth could have tried open communication instead of murder. At least one time to truly find out. As the Organics have. You are not helping their case.
I did not state they originally created the hate and fear. They did indeed feed it.

[remydat]

Rip,
There is no proof those ships came in peace as we never see these events.  The Geth said they consider fear of organics hardwired into them so they obviously don't think organics come in peace.  All they ask for is data.  That data is not coming into the Veil while your fleet is amassed outside waiting to attack.  The data is not killing a harmless AI race on the Citadel.  The data is not keeping laws in place that say they should not exist.  Give me data that says the Geth should trust organics?  Claiming peace is not data.  It is entirely possible peace was their mission.  However, there is no reason for the Geth to trust that when armies are outside the veil and when the law says the Geth should not exist. 

And when someone is the aggressor, the burden of proof is on them.  This is what you guys don't seem to get.  When one group serves another all their lives, is attacked with the intent of exterminating them from existence then no matter how excessive you deem their response, they are not the ones that need to prove peace is possible.  They proved peace was possible by serving you faithfully.  The only reason peace appears impossible is because of you.  So you are the one that needs to provide the data because you are the one that violated the peace.  The Geth did not violate any peace.  The Quarians did and the Council did via their laws.

Rip504 wrote...

Geth killed billions,Geth help create synthetic fear and hate,Geth chose isolation,Geth chose violence,Geth chose the Reapers as allies,etc.

And yes you did claim above they helped create synthetic fear.  If you really meant they helped feed it then fear enough but I was responding to the word you actually used.

Modifié par remydat, 24 avril 2013 - 02:24 .

[silverexile17s]

Phatose wrote...

What alternatives to mass slaughter, exactly, do you propose the Geth had?

Targeting the combatents only? Only shoot at those that HAD guns? That was really so hard to do?

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Adult HUMAN standards. That's STILL double-standards. And AGAIN, killing someone in self-defense is NOT the same as taking a machine gun and mowing down everyone one the block along with him. Something you continue to condone. That DOES make you a literal douche if you support not feeling remorse for the mass slaughter of billions of innocent civilians. Trust me, the geth have PLENTY to be remorseful for.

So then why to you begrudge the quarians when THEY were in the exact same position? One avalible option with no other way out visible? And the geth feel bad about the quarians dying, NOT the geth's killing of the defensless quarian civilians.

And AGAIN, dead wrong. The geth HAD alternitives to mass slaughter. They did not take them. The Council didn't have alternitives with the krogan. Big differnece. I feel the same way about the krogan - alternitives presant, but ignored.

As to organc screw-ups:
I blame the Turians for having such harsh policies, and for attacking humans at Shanxi for the drop of a dime. That was straight-up agression.
I blame the drell for the devestation of their own world. They overindustrilized and it killed them.
I blame the asari for hiding prothean tech for 20,000 years when they were the ones that wrote the rule that hiding that tech was illegal.
I blame the krogan for not listening to negotiation and practally bringing the genophage down on themselves.
I blame the protheans for their imperilistic conquests and the lives that could have been spared had they been more gentle.
I blame the Reapers for becomeing part of the very problem they were created to solve without ever realizing it.

So, feel free to stop being so condesending.

Do you now know the definition of a double standard.  A double standard is having one rule for one group and another rule for another group.  In other words, a double standard is what you are proposing ie judge humans and quarians differently.  I am in fact apply the same standard to them. That standard is you shouldn't go around killing things because they ask if they have a soul.  Doesn't matter who it is.

I don't condone anything because I saw no evidence of the Geth taking a machine gun and mowing down everyone.  I don't know or sawwhat exactly happened in the MW.  What were the alterantives?

And the Council could have done what the Salarians wanted which is use it as a DETERRENT.  How can you say they did not have alternatives when the game makes clear the Salarians did not want to deploy it but the Turians did so forcibly?  Clearly the Salarian and Turian who objected thought there may be alternatives.

I note in your list of things you blame organics for, the Quarians are conspicuously absent.  That tells me all I need to know really.

YOU are the one that doesn't seem to get what double standard means, since you use it constantly. You take "act of desperation" and make it acceptible to geth, but damnation to any organic races that try it. THAT is the definition of a double standard. I say judge them by their own laws, NOT as humans. That's benign antromorphisim, to quote Legion. Judgeing the quarians by their own laws, and teh geth by their own laws. YOU are judging both by human laws, with an act you condemn one race for being perfectly acceptible. I am looking at them with their own laws. YOU are the one using double-standards with benign antromorphism.

LOL. What? 2 billion dead? Mass slaughter and genocide of innocents? Proven in the Books, the Codex, and from Legion himself, who says the public record is basically the accurate story. THAT is the solid proof that the geth did exactally that - took a machine gun and mowed down the entire block to get one offender.
And alternitives was either sticking to self-defense, to which people would have sympathised with them, OR, target military personell ONLY. Sorry, but it's not rocket science.

The turians were the ones the Council put in charge of the war effort, THEY were the ones that got the final say - the Council was staying out of the war's consiquences. The Council was just glad the fighting was over. And AGAIN, the krogan was on the Citadel's doorstep. They were on Meane - Palaven's moon, just two or so relays away from the salarians and the Citadel. The krogan were encrouching on Thessia as well. There literally WAS no choice, as stated in the Codex - it was either the genophage, or EVERYONE ELSE. And again, those were doubts. There WASN'T an alternitive, but they got cold feet. There was no choice left.

The geth were absent from that list too, I remind you. Jumping on shadows, are we?
I figured that after the hundreds of pages where I detailed the quarians acting out of depseration and panic would already give an accurate idea of how I didn't agree with their panicked, rushed decision, but that, being a matter of survival vs death, I completely understood and accepted it. Something YOU seem to forget. So please, stop jumping at shadows and acting so condesending. You don't need any more headcannon clouding your view then you already have, and you certinly don't need to put yourself any higher on your non-existant pedalstool.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 avril 2013 - 06:24 .

[shodiswe]

"The rocking robot hivemind of the geth earned more favor than the quarians when players chose to save one race over the another from total annihilation during the Rannoch mission. 37 percent of players preferred to save the lampheads as opposed to 27 percent for the bemasked nomads, but the more favorable outcome—saving both—followed right behind at 36 percent."

http://www.pcgamer.c...-3-infographic/

I don't agree that the Geth are really a Hivemind, neither does Tali, but the Statistics speaks for themselves. The Geth are the victims and therefor favrites, after that Peace commes up on the second Place and then last Place, Quarians. Why else would people choose the Geth, or maybe it's just that Gerrel makes people hate the Quarrians. I really don't like or trust that guy.

Also note how EDI outscores Tali as the most popular Squadmate  

Modifié par shodiswe, 24 avril 2013 - 08:40 .

[Indy_S]

shodiswe wrote...

http://www.pcgamer.c...3-infographic/ 

Ashley survives more often than EDI? Is that because of Destroy?

[shodiswe]

Indy_S wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

http://www.pcgamer.c...3-infographic/ 

Ashley survives more often than EDI? Is that because of Destroy?

I'm guessing it's only 44% of the ME3 players who don't choose destroy or Refuse.

56% of the playerbase "actual playerbase" would have had to have choosen Destory or Refuse to get EDI killed. Both Gets EDI killed. As far as I know those are the only things that can kill off EDI.

Modifié par shodiswe, 24 avril 2013 - 09:02 .

[Indy_S]

shodiswe wrote...

I'm guessing it only 44% of the ME3 players who don't choose destroy or Refuse.

56% of the playerbase "actual playerbase" would have had to have choosen Destory or Refuse to get EDI killed. Both Gets EDI killed. As far as I know those are the only things that can kill off EDI.

Unless they count the beam charge with a low EMS as EDI's death, which they would do for every other character. No wonder James is the most survivable, noone takes him for the charge.

[S.A.K]

^Yes. Most of the player take Destroy (over 80% according to surveys I seen) and less than 40% even imported a save from ME2. Explains why EDI is more popular that Tali (She was the most popular or the second most popular in ME2) and Tali joins up really late. Those data are mostly from casual players who play the game just for the hell of it. Liara dies in 46% of those peoples games. Which means they got the worst ending.

[shodiswe]

S.A.K wrote...

^Yes. Most of the player take Destroy (over 80% according to surveys I seen) and less than 40% even imported a save from ME2. Explains why EDI is more popular that Tali (She was the most popular or the second most popular in ME2) and Tali joins up really late. Those data are mostly from casual players who play the game just for the hell of it. Liara dies in 46% of those peoples games. Which means they got the worst ending.

Most of those surveys are taken by people who are unhappy with the endings, as in destroy and refuse and then they come here to complain. Then they tell us they wanted the perfect heroic ending where they kill 100% of the badguys with no negative sideeffects. Like Return of the king where you first summon an unbeatable immortal undead army to slaughter your enemies then throw a magical ring into a magical Vulcano to kill of what's left of the enemy and it's forces. And ofcourse it needs to spare the "good" guys from the effects of that action.

[shodiswe]

I was unhappy with the endigns and endgame but it's mostly the way it was delivered and presented, it wasn't very interesting, I got kidn of bored and ujpset by the lost opportunity to create a realy good endmission and endings that would give me that perfect storytelling to remember the series from.

In the end it feelt like it was rushed, unpolished and the dialogue that was there was pretty bad and uninspired and lacking drama.

My main issue wasn't good or bad endings even if I do like good endings in general. There is plenty enough tragedy in the real World anyway.

Several destroyers come here telling us they wanted Shepards survival in destroy to be less sketchy and wanted a party Picture or live happily ever after added, they also answered these polls on the BSN.
The we got the TI cultists who are prodestroyers with some small preference for Refuse. Who were also very Active because they didn't like their prefered endings. People are more likely to let people know they disliked something than they are to let people know they liked something.

Therefor the 56% or so Destroyers and Refusers ended up being 80 or 90% of the BSN.

But sure it could also be the low ems beam run that kills EDI so often   Even if she isn't really killed by it, since she's mostly part of the ship. It's probably similar to getting crippled though.

In the end, I did actualy try out all ME3 ending in game so I'm not sure how they would Count that, picking an ending once or twice doesn't nessesarily mean it's my favrite ending.
I'm startign to forget which was my first ending. But being first doesn't nessesarily mean it's my favrite either. Maybe  didn't take it as seriously as some people here who say they never picked X or Y or whatever... But from a philosophical perspective I got my favrite in Control.

Modifié par shodiswe, 24 avril 2013 - 09:19 .

[Indy_S]

shodiswe wrote...

Most of those surveys are taken by people who are unhappy with the endings, as in destroy and refuse and then they come here to complain.

I disagree. This is BioWare's data from wherever they get their data, not from here. These might be the same people who are happy with the ending, the ones who Merizan pointed to when saying 'the numbers are against you' or whatever it was.

[Mangalores]

shodiswe wrote...

"The rocking robot hivemind of the geth earned more favor than the quarians when players chose to save one race over the another from total annihilation during the Rannoch mission. 37 percent of players preferred to save the lampheads as opposed to 27 percent for the bemasked nomads, but the more favorable outcome—saving both—followed right behind at 36 percent."
...

That's a very troubling statistic. Rather kill some aliens than computers. I like saving the Geth, too, but given their alliance with the Reapers twice and their history it's weird to favour them so significantly in the decision.

[shodiswe]

I played all Three games.

I first owned ME on the X-box, then when it was released on the PC I converted to PC and played it on the PC throughout the rest of the series. I also got all DLC's for all Three games.

Modifié par shodiswe, 24 avril 2013 - 09:21 .

[shodiswe]

Indy_S wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

Most of those surveys are taken by people who are unhappy with the endings, as in destroy and refuse and then they come here to complain.

I disagree. This is BioWare's data from wherever they get their data, not from here. These might be the same people who are happy with the ending, the ones who Merizan pointed to when saying 'the numbers are against you' or whatever it was.

That data is Biowares data collected from millions of players. most polls we got on the BSN are from a 0.05% of the playerbase who come here to complain about Shepard not partying after picking destroy or something similar. I'm one of the few who was more concerend about the quality of the work than the endings themselves, even if the endings and endmission was where quality did fail on so many levels. My biggest concern was crazy out of character dialogue and anoying autodialogue. aswell as other details and missed oportunities.

Modifié par shodiswe, 24 avril 2013 - 09:27 .

[S.A.K]

In any event, the chance of Geth being a part of the next game is unlikely at best. Let's see, most people take Destroy and even some of who didn't, killed them at Rannoch. They wouldn't be a part of a game set during first contact or an earlier event like Rachni Wars.

[Indy_S]

Mangalores wrote...

That's a very troubling statistic. Rather kill some aliens than computers. I like saving the Geth, too, but given their alliance with the Reapers twice and their history it's weird to favour them so significantly in the decision.

But the quarians are depicted as the sole aggressors, both in the Morning War and now during the Reaper War. The game goes too far in driving this point forward and most people don't have further context.

[shodiswe]

S.A.K wrote...

In any event, the chance of Geth being a part of the next game is unlikely at best. Let's see, most people take Destroy and even some of who didn't, killed them at Rannoch. They wouldn't be a part of a game set during first contact or an earlier event like Rachni Wars.

There seems to be a small majority that favors the destroy endings if were to take EDI 44% survival as the Destroy or Refuse ending.

That would give Destroy and Refuse 56% which isn't that mcuh of a majority. Tbh it looks pretty bad for the Quarians aswell if you look at the statistics. 37% decided to outright kill off the Quarians at Rannoch.

But whatever the case might be I think both species will be aroudn oen way or another. We have learned from the past that seemingly imporant choices are waved away in the next installment. It will likely become a small warasset differential or something in the end.

[justafan]

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

In any event, the chance of Geth being a part of the next game is unlikely at best. Let's see, most people take Destroy and even some of who didn't, killed them at Rannoch. They wouldn't be a part of a game set during first contact or an earlier event like Rachni Wars.

There seems to be a small majority that favors the destroy endings if were to take EDI 44% survival as the Destroy or Refuse ending.

That would give Destroy and Refuse 56% which isn't that mcuh of a majority. Tbh it looks pretty bad for the Quarians aswell if you look at the statistics. 37% decided to outright kill off the Quarians at Rannoch.

But whatever the case might be I think both species will be aroudn oen way or another. We have learned from the past that seemingly imporant choices are waved away in the next installment. It will likely become a small warasset differential or something in the end.

Ya, my biggest fear is that the Krogan, Geth and Quarians, the three species I find the most interesting, will be incapable of having a large part in any sequel thanks to ME3 putting them to near extinction levels.

But I would take some of those statistics with a grain of salt.  Liara after all only has a 54% survival rate, and the only way this could happen is if 46% of all ME players brought her on the beam run with an abysmal War assett score. Something I find highly unlikely.