452 réponses à ce sujet

[remydat]

Finn,

The Quarians rule by consensus as well. Tali, Koris and Rann all have misgivings about the war. Yet they ultimately agree to war. Gherel orders the fleet to fire despite other admirals saying stand down and the entire fleet decides to comply. So this whole consensus business is non-sense. The consensus votes and in the end the Geth that vote no end up keeping quiet and follow the consensus. The same is true of the Quarians. They may disagree but at the end of the day no one had the courageto refuse.

When you attack first showing no mercy you can't claim you didn't know they had peaceful intentions. They had peaceful intentions because they never attacked you. They never said they would attack you. You decided they would and so you violated peace not them. They merely responded by showing you the same amount of mercy as you showed them. In fact they showed slightly more because they could have exterminated you completely and avoided having to worry about you 300 years later.

Modifié par remydat, 29 avril 2013 - 08:50 .

[remydat]

Sak

The biggest threat to the galaxy is organic fear and hatred of races different than them. In the absence of that, there is no evidence the Geth would ever have attacked. If the Quarians did not attack without mercy there is no evidence the Geth would have responded with no mercy.

Again I am still waiting on what you propose to do about that or will the solution always be let's kill the people who respond to fear and hate instead of the people that cause it?

The Geth stayed behind the PV for 300 years. It is not terrorizing when you prevent people from invading your space. It was organics that kept pestering synthetics who simply wanted to be left alone. The galaxy is large enough that if someone doesn't want to talk to you because you have a penchant for trying to slaughter them then you should let them be instead of trying to impose on them.

[Mangalores]

remydat wrote...

...

So fine punish the Geth for their response.  What are you going to do with all the organics that helped provoke that response?  Until you address that issue there can be no justice.  Just mob rule with organics being the mob.

For the Quarians it's a bit easier to put Gerrel and other hardliners before a tribunal, particularly for their way in which they escalated the conflict against the authority of other admirals (e.g. launching not agreed attacks to force other commanders into line). Geth have more difficulty (in the case of them trying to murder all Quarians) since they decide their actions based on a consensus.

[silverexile17s]

Mangalores wrote...

remydat wrote...

...

So fine punish the Geth for their response.  What are you going to do with all the organics that helped provoke that response?  Until you address that issue there can be no justice.  Just mob rule with organics being the mob.

For the Quarians it's a bit easier to put Gerrel and other hardliners before a tribunal, particularly for their way in which they escalated the conflict against the authority of other admirals (e.g. launching not agreed attacks to force other commanders into line). Geth have more difficulty (in the case of them trying to murder all Quarians) since they decide their actions based on a consensus.

Um.... AGAIN wrong. The quarian invasion was done with the consent of the MAJORITY of quarians. It's IMPOSSIBLE for Gerrel to force the fleet without Tali and Koris' support. Overrulling them like that is NOT possible, and is forbiddon by Quarian Law. Either ALL the Admirals have to agree, or a majoraty of quarians must vote for it. Since Tali and Koris didn't agree, but the fleet still went to war, it means that the MAJORITY of quarians WILLINGLY made the choice to fight, because they thought the Reapers would kill them all if they didn't. It was NOT a "rule by few" or "dictatorship." They chose an action they didn't want to do, because the alternitive was certen death. Sound familiar? @remydat, remember this circumstance? (*cough* geth siding with Reapers)

So @Mangalores, you can't really put Gerrel on tribunal for something the majority of quarians also chose as well. Ironicly, they are just as much a consensis as the geth. But as we also see, they would have been more then willing to accept peace, had they believed the geth would be open to it as well. After all, we know that for a fact, the geth shoot everyone theat tries to contact them, without even a warning. The only other race that does this is the krogan, and not even they shoot everyone that comes to talk to them 100% of the time. The only race that has shot everyone that ever came to see them was the geth. So yes, the quarians are more reasonable then the geth are when it comes to negotiation.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 30 avril 2013 - 06:33 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

You are repeating yourself and proved nothing.

1. The Geth have no reason to believe these claims. Organics lie and just finished trying to exterminate them and have laws that say they should not exist.

2. Shep's ship was not shot at because they were invited. Tali was asked to report to the flotilla and she is on the ship. Legion was not shot at because he came with Shep. That has nothing to do with an uninvited Geth ship approaching the flotilla.  Nor is it the same as uninvited organic ships invading Geth space.

3. Once again, go write to the the American Anthroplogy Association. They disagree and you are a dude on the internet without a Phd.

4. The Geth were innocent. They committed no crime. They were shown no mercy. Those are facts that can't be disputed. I don't go around killing people that have committed no crime but then again I am not a douchebag. When you let me know what crime they committed we can discuss. Oh that's right, their crime was they existed and organics don't like the fact they do.

Thats's only true of YOU. All throughout this, YOU and @shodiwse have been derailing the topic by dragging the quarian vs geth debate into a  Destroy Ending debate. S.A.K and Khelish both validated that YOU were the first one to bring that into this.

1. They have no reason to DISBELIEVE them either. THAT'S the difference between the two - the quarians DO show willingness to negotiate. Unless the race in question has not GIVEN any reason to believe they will listen to negotaition. The attack on the Citadel and lack of contact with anyone else and instantly vilonet isolationest policies have given the galaxy PLENTY of reason to distrust the geth. The organics sent unarmed peace envoys to the geth that were killed instantly. WHO looks less trustworthy? The group that came in peace, or the group that shot them without any voiced reason or warning? It's not a hard question. Also, exterminate them in a PANICKED state, where every other choice had an ASSURED bad end for them. The geth had multuple choices that could have ended the war in their favor WITHOUT causing a bloodbath. The quarians didn't HAVE any visible choices. The geth DID. So sorry, but AGAIN, you are wrong.

2. WRONG. Tali said she was going to chart a shuttle. The Cerberus Ship was NOT invited. No one knew about that. They were NOT expecting a Cerberus Ship. Or did you MISS the part where they asked for verification?  Something you WOULDN'T do for an expected ship?
So NO, they DIDN'T expect the Cerberus Ship, but STILL didn't shoot in sight. Strange, huh?
So AGAIN, you have been proven dead wrong - the quarians open hails with incoming ships, and either warn them off, or verify their intent. The geth? Kill them instantly. WHICH seems the more unreasonable, again?

3. So are you, I remind you. And AGAIN, that is in relation to OUR OWN CULTURE, NOT judging others. I see study other cultures and how they relate to ours, but NOTHING that constitutes "we can impose judgement on other cultures, simply because they don't fit our view of moral right/wrong." That is benign antromorphism, which according to the geth is the ultimate in racial judgement. ONCE AGAIN, you fail antropology 101.

4. They were BORN AS SOLDIERS. So the quarians naturally assumed that if the had sentiance, they would do what came naturally - rise up on them. If a gun starts asking questions, don't you think it's natural that it's nature will be dictated by the reason it was made? - which was to be a killing machine? No one thought the geth were ment to be anything but tools, or that they COULD become anything more. The geth were made to be soldiers. That doesn't make them "innocent" per se. And ONCE AGAIN, the billions of quarian women and children are innocent and comitted no wrong too? It doesn't even MATTER about "innocence" in the end. It's about whcih you are going to save - your family, or the gun that started asking questions. Innocence has ZERO bearing in that - WHICH are you going to save? Your siblings? Or the gun whose very purpose is to fight? The geth were made to be tools of labor and war. That;s what they were created for. Your headcannon that people expected OTHERWISE is asinine, as it's like expecting a tool to do the complete opposate of what it was built for. You belittle them for counting on the expected peramaters? It was 2 billion innocent people, or a race of constuction tools and walking guns. WHICH would anyone pick under duress. Like, say, a massive polotial power made of the three largest governments? I'm pretty damn sure you would NOT have acted any different. It was NEVER about "crime." That's just in relation to the COUNCIl. The quarian's perdiciment was "who to save?" The race of automated servents that will DIE ANYWAY when the Council learns of them, or the 2 billion men, women and children we are SWORN TO PROTECT.
This isn't rocket science, yet you twist it around as though it's complecated.

Now AGAIN, I ask YOU to let this drop. YOU are the one that tried bringing the "quarians vs geth" into this, so, " SUCH AS LIFE," YOU are the one that has to take responcibility for derailing the topic.
So I ask you, just let it go, because as I have already prove, your double-standards and benign antromorphism make you impossible to reason or debate with.

[remydat]

1. Organics lie all the time. Organics tried to exterminate them. Organics say they should not exist. More than enough reason to disbelieve them.

2.  I am pretty sure Tali was contacted while on the Normandy and they knew she was on it because of the Veetor and Reager missions. So they knew she was flying around with Cerberus Shep.

3. I am not asking you to believe me. I provided a link to articles from experts in the field that disagree with you. So like I said, take it up with them not me.

4. The Quarians made an ASSumption that cost them billions of lives.  No crime was committed by the Geth except they exist.  None.  You don't get to kill people based on your ASSumptions.

And the thread is not derailed. The question is whether the Geth should be destroyed. My answer is unless we are killing the a**holes that provoked them too then no.  And you never asked me to drop it so not sure why you said AGAIN.  I told you agree to disagree and you refused.  So here we are.  Only one of us is still writing dissertations. 

Modifié par remydat, 30 avril 2013 - 12:30 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

Sak

The biggest threat to the galaxy is organic fear and hatred of races different than them. In the absence of that, there is no evidence the Geth would ever have attacked. If the Quarians did not attack without mercy there is no evidence the Geth would have responded with no mercy.

Again I am still waiting on what you propose to do about that or will the solution always be let's kill the people who respond to fear and hate instead of the people that cause it?

The Geth stayed behind the PV for 300 years. It is not terrorizing when you prevent people from invading your space. It was organics that kept pestering synthetics who simply wanted to be left alone. The galaxy is large enough that if someone doesn't want to talk to you because you have a penchant for trying to slaughter them then you should let them be instead of trying to impose on them.

The Heretics almost unleashed the Reapers on the galaxy and the rest of the Geth let it happen. How come you always forget that? That wasn't anyone elses fault. It's good old Geth stupidity. Geth never gave anyone a reason not to fear them.

The solution is to not create any more AIs. Specially not an entire synthetic race.

Again the Heretics as I mentioned above. Also the Geth were keeping the Quarian worlds for no good reason. Taking back Rannoch is the only way they can get back to their old lives in the current generation. I can't blame them for wanting their world back. If the Geth are so peaceful and smart, they should have atleast tried to communicate which can't hurt them. They didn't and I blame them for letting the fear and hate continue. Were the Geth so stupid not to see Quarians trying to take back their lost world even when try know every organic fears and hates them?

[silverexile17s]

S.A.K wrote...

remydat wrote...

Sak

The biggest threat to the galaxy is organic fear and hatred of races different than them. In the absence of that, there is no evidence the Geth would ever have attacked. If the Quarians did not attack without mercy there is no evidence the Geth would have responded with no mercy.

Again I am still waiting on what you propose to do about that or will the solution always be let's kill the people who respond to fear and hate instead of the people that cause it?

The Geth stayed behind the PV for 300 years. It is not terrorizing when you prevent people from invading your space. It was organics that kept pestering synthetics who simply wanted to be left alone. The galaxy is large enough that if someone doesn't want to talk to you because you have a penchant for trying to slaughter them then you should let them be instead of trying to impose on them.

The Heretics almost unleashed the Reapers on the galaxy and the rest of the Geth let it happen. How come you always forget that? That wasn't anyone elses fault. It's good old Geth stupidity. Geth never gave anyone a reason not to fear them.

The solution is to not create any more AIs. Specially not an entire synthetic race.

Again the Heretics as I mentioned above. Also the Geth were keeping the Quarian worlds for no good reason. Taking back Rannoch is the only way they can get back to their old lives in the current generation. I can't blame them for wanting their world back. If the Geth are so peaceful and smart, they should have atleast tried to communicate which can't hurt them. They didn't and I blame them for letting the fear and hate continue. Were the Geth so stupid not to see Quarians trying to take back their lost world even when try know every organic fears and hates them?

Not to mention the geth murdered the peace envoys the Council repeatedly sent into geth space. They could have warded them off. At the very least, they could have opened communications of their own, and declined the offer. Instead, they just shot them dead right off the bat. And if @remydat tries some BS about "inside the Veil's borders" those ships were openly hailing them WELL BEFORE they EVER reached the Veil's borders. Meaning the geth could have opened comms of their own and WARNED THEM OFF or DECLINED the offer LIGHT-YEARS before they ever entered the Veil.

So that didn't exatcally improve the geth's reputation to the rest of the galaxy either. It certenly doesn't give the  quarians any reason to believe the geth are as peaceful as Legion claims, especally when the geth recall Legion and prevent him from talking to Tali anymore. The only ones the geth cam blame for how everyone treats them is themselves.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 30 avril 2013 - 06:04 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

1. Organics lie all the time. Organics tried to exterminate them. Organics say they should not exist. More than enough reason to disbelieve them.

2.  I am pretty sure Tali was contacted while on the Normandy and they knew she was on it because of the Veetor and Reager missions. So they knew she was flying around with Cerberus Shep.

3. I am not asking you to believe me. I provided a link to articles from experts in the field that disagree with you. So like I said, take it up with them not me.

4. The Quarians made an ASSumption that cost them billions of lives.  No crime was committed by the Geth except they exist.  None.  You don't get to kill people based on your ASSumptions.

And the thread is not derailed. The question is whether the Geth should be destroyed. My answer is unless we are killing the a**holes that provoked them too then no.  And you never asked me to drop it so not sure why you said AGAIN.  I told you agree to disagree and you refused.  So here we are.  Only one of us is still writing dissertations. 

1. And AGAIN, you DODGED the QUESTION. Which was: What proof was there that they WERE lying? You have not given a SINGLE REASON that could justify the geth's actions - not ONE THING that would tell the geth that the organics aren't sincere. In fact, all you have done is HIGHLIGHT the reasons I provided that prove they WERE sincere. You haven't given ONE REASON AT ALL that could even suggest the envoys weren't sincere.
you entire agruement basically boils down too: they assumed wrongly. With NO backing to justify that idea, besides blind fear. The SAME thing you try to accuse the quarians of.  Also, AGAIN, open boradcasting of loaction, and the standard unarmed ship, AND lack of military action in the Veil, all are indicators that they ARE sincere.

2. And subsiquently said she was going to chart a shuttle and book passage herself. She didn't seem to have ANY intent to bring Shepard into the trial, given the fact that she was shocked about her name being changed to "Vas Normandy." She had NO CLUE at the time that Shepard would have had to represent her, because she was unaware her ship name was stripped. Also, you DO realise she WASN'T part of the Normandy Crew at the time, right? On Freedom's Progress, she was part of a quarian Migrant Fleet Marine operation to rescue Veetor for the QUARIANS. And on Haestrom, Shepard came to recover Tali FROM Reegar. NOT Tali coming to aid an op led by Reegar. Are you SURE you played ME2? Because anyone that was paying attention would know Tali WASN'T part of the ship crew until almost right before her trial date. So no, they did NOT know about Cerberus Shep. Otherwise, based on Prazza's responce, they would have sooner detained Shepard themselves rather then let Tali join. The only one that would have even possibly known was Rael'Zorah, who likely saw the chance to have someone inside Cerberus, and give the quarians an advantage for the first time (Likely Tali would be unaware of any private agenda like that, just as she was unaware of his agenda regarding the geth parts she sent him).
And AGAIN, had they known about Cerberus Shep, don't you think they would have RECONIZED the ship? They would NOT have had to ask for athuntication if they WERE aware of it. A simple fact you keep skipping over.

3. And I pointed out that they did NOT validate you at all, as they talked about disimination of the RELATIONS of culture and human rights, NOT the judgement of other cultures by forcibly imposing our own standards on them. ONCE AGAIN, you fail at Antropology 101 by trying to force your own cultural standars on an alien culture (figeratively speaking, since their culture ISN'T like ours).  YOUR ideal is in conflict with the very document you posted. Quite the LoL.

4. You DO realize you are trying to justify the geth making the same ASSumption with everyone else, including the peace envoys. And AGAIN, I stated the circumstances: Quarians = no other visible choice. Geth = multiple alternitives, but none taken. YOU are the one that keeps trying to advocate the geth being peaceful, yet try to justify them going on a killing spree when they KNEW there were alternitives. A stark contrast to the quarians, who DIDN't know of any alternitives. There is a DIFFERENCE between knowing you have options, and not knowing. When you know you can negotiate with someone, you usually take that chance. When you DON'T know that option exists, you defalut to whatever option remains. The geth defaulted to killing en masse right off the bat when there was NO NEED for it. The quarians did it because they believed their people - their families - were on the line. You expect me to believe you'd place more value on a talking gun then your own sibling? Bull.
But then hey, if you value a talking gun, that might just decide to go off for no reason whatsoever, then your own brothers, then fine. Risk their lives and wellfare for your own moral code. I'm sure if the gun DID suddenly snap, and you ask your sibling's ashes for forgiveness in not valuing them more then the gun, they would understand.<_<

ONCE AGAIN, you have completely derailed the topic. Because it's about if the geth should be destroyed IN THE DESTROY ENDING.  
NOT THE MORNING WAR.  THE DESTROY ENDING.
Are the geth's lives worth the chance of letting the Reapers persist? Destroy is the most sure-fire way to end the threat of the Reapers. S.A.K  PERSONALLY said th - were worth the entire galaxy, and the perminate end of the Reaper's Harvests.
See? You MISUNDERSTOOD the topic as being about the Morning War and Rannoch War, and you yourself broke the so-called "ceasefire" you accused Khelish and S.A.K of breaking. And THREE PAGES AGO I said that you were derailing the topic. That's a PRETTY DIFFINITIVE way of stating that you are fighting about the wrong topic. I didn't believe that I actually needed to spell out the obvious for you.
The fact that I have to write walls of text to explain that you are agruing on a false premise, and that everythong points to you being completely wrong on everything you stated, is the problem here. Especally since you have done nothing but derail the original topic.

[remydat]

Silver,

1. Just like you claim there is no reason for the Quarians to trust Legion, there is no reason for the Geth to trust the organics that tried to exterminate them, killed an innocent AI race on the citadel, and have as their official law synthetics should not exist. It is not blind fear because the laws exist and organics have in fact been trying to and succeeding in killing synthetics.

2. Tali and the Quarians with her know Shep is with Cerberus because he says so and is accompanied by Miranda and Jacob during the Veetor mission. Tali is concerned he is with Cerberus as are the Quarians with her. And how could they change her name to Vas Normandy if they did not know she was a member of the Normandy? So you are confused. Damn near the entire galaxy knows. There are news stories about Shep working with Cerberus. It is public knowledge.

3. The articles quote various people that say there is a moral obligation to stand up for human rights even when those rights conflict with the prevailing culture. So you either didn't read or comprehend the article.

4. Who said the Geth were peaceful? I said they responded to violence without mercy with violence without mercy. I said the Quarians attacked innocent Geth. If you disagree with those statements then show me where the Quarians showed mercy and let me know what crime the Geth committed beyond simply existing. Otherwise you are ranting about stuff I never said.

And once again, in response to the question, I will advocate the Geth be destroyed when the douchebags that provoked them are killed. That is my position. Happy to agree to disagree when you stop trying to tell me what I should believe. You are free to believe what you want as a I.

[remydat]

SAK

We already went ovet this.

1. The heretics attacked enemies that the true Geth don't trust. Please show me where the organics would fight other organics who attack their enemies ie synthetics. This is typical organic behavior. And the heretics die in my game for their actions.

2. Laws still exist saying the Geth should not exist and the Quarians still attack when they think they can win. Why would anyone give the Quarians back Rannoch under those conditions? If you want Rannoch back then prove you are no longer a douchebag that wants to kill something because it exists.

All you are doing is putting the onus on the victims of prejudice to fix things. That is not how it works SAK. In the real world prejudiced people are the ones that need to prove they have changed not the victims.

I am not advocating the Geth survive because they are perfect.  i am advocating they survive because they like any race are capable of good and evil.  You keep wanting to address they ecils while ignoring the evils of organics that helped create the evils of the Gerh.  Even when asked how you deal with organic evils your solution is basically lets make sure no more synthetics are created.   So this is basically council logic.  Hey Geth even though I think you should nit exist believe me when I say we come in peace, lol.

Modifié par remydat, 30 avril 2013 - 04:24 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

SAK

We already went ovet this.

1. The heretics attacked enemies that the true Geth don't trust. Please show me where the organics would fight other organics who attack their enemies ie synthetics. This is typical organic behavior. And the heretics die in my game for their actions.

2. Laws still exist saying the Geth should not exist and the Quarians still attack when they think they can win. Why would anyone give the Quarians back Rannoch under those conditions? If you want Rannoch back then prove you are no longer a douchebag that wants to kill something because it exists.

All you are doing is putting the onus on the victims of prejudice to fix things. That is not how it works SAK. In the real world prejudiced people are the ones that need to prove they have changed not the victims.

Who said the Geth were peaceful? I said they responded to
violence without mercy with violence without mercy. I said the Quarians
attacked innocent Geth. If you disagree with those statements then
show me where the Quarians showed mercy and let me know what crime the
Geth committed beyond simply existing. Otherwise you are ranting about
stuff I never said.

I am not advocating the Geth survive because they are perfect.  i am advocating they survive because they like any race are capable of good and evil.  You keep wanting to address they ecils while ignoring the evils of organics that helped create the evils of the Gerh.  Even when asked how you deal with organic evils your solution is basically lets make sure no more synthetics are created. So this is basically council logic.  Hey Geth even though I think you should nit exist believe me when I say we come in peace, lol.

But the Geth are not victims after they killed billions, they are just trying to show they are and you bought it. I didn't.

Most of what you said just prove that Geth are a threat to all organics. Give me one good reason why organics shouldn't hate the Geth. And yes, my solution is not to create new synthatics. Like I said, Geth are not worth saving under the conditions of Synthesis or Control. If they survived in Destroy I would consider it.

Now let me ask you this. Would there be any synthetics without organics? Why do you suggest it's a good thing to create more synthetics? And how are organics supposed to show they don't want to fight Geth when the Geth don't even allow organics to communicate with them?

P.S : I really find it funny when you call Geth "innocent" and "victims". There is no such thing as an innocent Geth.

[remydat]

SAK,

They killed billions in response to an attack on their lives. If someone tries to kill me I am a victim of an attempted murder. I can also become an assailant if my response is deemed excessive but that does not change the fact I am a victim. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Organics should not hate the Geth because they served the Quarians faithfully until they were viciously attacked. Everything that came later was the result of that vicuous attack. When the Geth had the power to exterminate the Quarians twice, they refuse twice. When the Quarians have the power to exterminate the Geth they do so.

I am not suggesting it is a good thing. I am suggesting it is not something that shoukd be legislated. The minute you create laws that says another race should not exist, you make yourself a bigot. If orgajics don't want to create synthetics then let them have the common sense to regulate themselves individually.

Organics can show they don't want to fight by leaving them alone and publicly abolishing the laws that say the Geth should not exist. They could allow the Quarians to settle another world and say an attack on the Geth is an attack on the Council. At that point if the Geth still don't want to talk then so what. You have the whole damn galaxy and they have the PV. Leave them be. The Quarians have no right to their homeworld because they lost that right when they refused to be good creators. Nations throughout history have rose and fallen. That is the price you pay for your vicious attack.

I called them innocent with respect to the attack prior to the MW because they were. If you have evidence they committed a crime prior to the unprovoked attack by thw Quarians let me know. Again being innocent is not a perpetual state of being. They can be guilty with respect to other events but thwy were innocent prior to the attempted murder.

PS I find it funny you have yet to even ponder holding organics accountable for any crimes against synthetics. 17 pages in and I have yet to see anything that addresses organics refraining from being douchebags to synthetics.

Modifié par remydat, 30 avril 2013 - 05:26 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

SAK,

They killed billions in response to an attack on their lives. If someone tries to kill me I am a victim of an attempted murder. I can also become an assailant if my response is deemed excessive but that does not change the fact I am a victim. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Organics should not hate the Geth because they served the Quarians faithfully until they were viciously attacked. Everything that came later was the result of that vicuous attack. When the Geth had the power to exterminate thw Quarians twice, they refuse twice. When thw Quarians have the powr to exterminate the Geth they do so.

I am not suggesting it is a good thing. I am suggesting it is not something that shoukd be legislated. The minute you create laws that says another race should not exist, you make yourself a bigot. If orgajics don't want to create synthetics then let them have the common sense to regulate themselves individually.

Organics can show they don't want to fight by leaving them alone and publicly abolishing the laws that say the Geth should not exist. They could allow the Quarians to settle another world and say an attack on the Geth is an attack on the Council. At that point if the Geth still don't want to talk then so what. You have the whole damn galaxy and they have the PV. Leave them be. The Quarians have no right to their homeworld because they lost that right when they refused to be good creators. Nations throughout history have rose and fallen. That is the price you pay for your vicious attack.

I called them innocent with respect to the attack prior to the MW because they were. If you have evidence they committed a crime prior to the unprovoked attack by thw Quarians let me know. Again being innocent is not a perpetual state of being. They can be guilty with respect to other events but thwy were innocent prior to the attempted murder.

PS I find it funny you have yet to even ponder holding organics accountable for any crimes against synthetics. 17 pages in and I have yet to see anything that addresses organics refraining from being douchebags to synthetics.

Geth killed everyone who didn't leave the planet. Not only the military. That's way beyond self defence. It's genocide how ever you try to pretty it up.

Lol. Quarians didn't hate the Geth, they tried to shut them down before they rebeled. You know, people tend to do that when they are used as slaves. Geth did kill everyone left on Rannoch. How the hell do you miss that? They freaking killed every organic they came into contact with them for the next 300 years. Those people didn't do anything hostile. The Geth are prejudice to the point they don't even want to talk with any organic.

I never seen anything about laws saying Geth shouldn't exist. All I seen were laws against making new AIs cos that tends to be bad. Also the laws against provoking the Geth. I haven't seen what you are say in all your posts from any source other than you.

Quarians don't have a right for their own world? Really? That's like saying Geth lost their right to live when they allied with the Reapers...

I also agreed numerous times that Quarians paid for their mistakes. You are so fixed on seeing Geth as innocent victims and trying to whitewash them, you just don't want to see their bad side. I have good enough reason to see Geth as a threat and destroy them. Your post made that even more clear. They have done nothing good after the MW. They are responsible for killing billions, forcing the Quarians to attack by holding the only world they can live on and almost destroying the galaxy by allying with Reapers twice . So I cannot let them continue. If you want to see them as innocent victims after all this, go ahead. I just don't understand how anyone could overlook everything bad about them.

Clear now?

[Mangalores]

silverexile17s wrote...

Mangalores wrote...

remydat wrote...

...

So fine punish the Geth for their response.  What are you going to do with all the organics that helped provoke that response?  Until you address that issue there can be no justice.  Just mob rule with organics being the mob.

For the Quarians it's a bit easier to put Gerrel and other hardliners before a tribunal, particularly for their way in which they escalated the conflict against the authority of other admirals (e.g. launching not agreed attacks to force other commanders into line). Geth have more difficulty (in the case of them trying to murder all Quarians) since they decide their actions based on a consensus.

Um.... AGAIN wrong. The quarian invasion was done with the consent of the MAJORITY of quarians. It's IMPOSSIBLE for Gerrel to force the fleet without Tali and Koris' support. Overrulling them like that is NOT possible, and is forbiddon by Quarian Law. Either ALL the Admirals have to agree, or a majoraty of quarians must vote for it. Since Tali and Koris didn't agree, but the fleet still went to war, it means that the MAJORITY of quarians WILLINGLY made the choice to fight, because they thought the Reapers would kill them all if they didn't. It was NOT a "rule by few" or "dictatorship." They chose an action they didn't want to do, because the alternitive was certen death. Sound familiar? @remydat, remember this circumstance? (*cough* geth siding with Reapers)

So @Mangalores, you can't really put Gerrel on tribunal for something the majority of quarians also chose as well. Ironicly, they are just as much a consensis as the geth. But as we also see, they would have been more then willing to accept peace, had they believed the geth would be open to it as well. After all, we know that for a fact, the geth shoot everyone theat tries to contact them, without even a warning. The only other race that does this is the krogan, and not even they shoot everyone that comes to talk to them 100% of the time. The only race that has shot everyone that ever came to see them was the geth. So yes, the quarians are more reasonable then the geth are when it comes to negotiation.

*sigh* Can you behave any more obnoxious? Very mature that. Learn some internet manners.

Gerrel violates orders on several occasions without refering back to other admirals who are comparatively pissed and forced into action. That's clear insubordination and sabotage of agreed strategy in war times. So, no, he obviously violates standing orders. Shala'Raan threatens to accuse him of treason based on precisely that. Several of the admirals reject his actions and are open to negotiation but are sabotaged by him. All this can be classified as high treason during a wartime.
Additionally this war is a treaty violation against the Council as per in game dialogue so the Council may bring justice down on anyone who supported such illegal actions.
The decision to go to war was made by the admirality board with a 3-2 vote as per in game dialogue as well. So YOU ARE WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS, regardless of what other sources say about the Quarian political system (and possibly we see a constitutional crisis unfolding)! btw: See, how annoying capital letters are?

Other than that the nature of a tribunal is that it is usually extrajudiciary (you can usually not apply to be tried by a normal court). We put the main instigators of war crimes and wars of aggression before tribunals regardless of the support they had in the general population. So it's not even an issue.

But Gerrel has the chance to be put on a Quarian tribunal for high treason by abusing his power as an admiral against the interests of the Flotilla and the Quarian species (by putting the civilian fleet in mortal danger due to his reckless behaviour) and a Council or Geth one for starting a war of aggression not sanctioned by the Council or threatening genocide against the Geth.

Modifié par Mangalores, 30 avril 2013 - 07:05 .

[remydat]

Sak

You are confusing the point. The point is not that what the Geth did was right. The point is they responded in the manner in which they were attacked. So if we are going to condemn them then the Quarians are condemned as well. They attacked domestic and agricultural units who attacked no one on the basis they are capable of killing. Well a civilian is capable of picking up a gun and firing. A kid is capable of growing up and being a douchebag like his Dad. If it is ok for the Quarians to attack because all Geth are capable of killing then the same holds true of the Quarians. Civilians killl all the time. 

Did you miss the laws against AI? Did you miss that the harmless AI on the citadel was killed? Did you miss the fact EDI has to hide the fact she is a true AI?

Rannoch is not the only planet they can live on. The council has been denying them a new planet for 300 years. They could have settled on a new planet long ago if the douchebag organics would let them.

And when you start a war and lose you lose your rights. Has been happening on Earth since civilization began. Even when you don't start a war but lose one you lose land or do you think all these white people of European descent that largely control America are native to the US?

I am whitewashing nothing. Once again the only time I claim they were innocent was pre-MW. I asked you to provide evidence that they committed a crime pre-MW. You can't so you keep trying to pretend I am claiming they are innocent of everything. I am not. Once again, I merely am pointing out organics are guilty of similar or worse crimes than the Geth so why are you not advocating thier destruction as well? Oh that's right they are organic so they get the monopoly get out of jail free card.

Modifié par remydat, 30 avril 2013 - 08:21 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

Sak

You are confusing the point. The point is not that what the Geth did was right. The point is they responded in the manner in which they were attacked. So if we are going to condemn them then the Quarians are condemned as well. They attacked domestic and agricultural units who attacked no one on the basis they are capable of killing. Well a civilian is capable of picking up a gun and firing. A kid is capable of growing up and being a douchebag like his Dad. If it is ok for the Quarians to attack because all Geth are capable of killing then the same holds true of the Quarians. Civilians killl all the time. 

Did you miss the laws against AI? Did you miss that the harmless AI on the citadel was killed? Did you miss the fact EDI has to hide the fact she is a true AI?

Rannoch is not the only planet they can live on. The council has been denying them a new planet for 300 years. They could have settled on a new planet long ago if the douchebag organics would let them.

And when you start a war and lose you lose your rights. Has been happening on Earth since civilization began. Even when you don't start a war but lose one you lose land or do you think all these white people of European descent that largely control America are native to the US?

I am whitewashing nothing. Once again the only time I claim they were innocent was pre-MW. I asked you to provide evidence that they committed a crime pre-MW. You can't so you keep trying to pretend I am claiming they are innocent of everything. I am not. Once again, I merely am pointing out organics are guilty of similar or worse crimes than the Geth so why are you not advocating thier destruction as well? Oh that's right they are organic so they get the monopoly get out of jail free card.

Then I don't see why you are so against me for destroying the Geth.

There is nothing to condemn the Quarians for by now. They already paid for what they did. More than they should have had to. Only 17 million is left out of billions, they don't have a world and everyone treat them like crap and they are prisoners inside those suits. Current generation of Quarians did nothing to deserve this.

Those laws say nothing about the Geth themselves. Like I said it's about creating new AIs which makes sense. And Rannoch IS the only planet with the biology which Quarians can adapt to within this generation (difference of 60years and 600). I what ever way I look at it, there is now way to blame the Quarians for wanting their world back and Geth have given them no peaceful options.

Only species who done crimes like Geth or even close to are the Rachni, Krogan and maybe the Quarians. All of them paid for their crimes except the Geth. And none of those pose a current threat even close to what Geth are. They had 300 years to show they are peaceful. They didn't even attempt to do so.

I think I have more than enough reason to destroy the Geth and be happy about it.

[remydat]

SAK,

I am not against you destroying the Geth. You are free to do what you want. I am telling you why I wouldn't because that is the question you posed. That and pointing out the double standard in punishing the Geth while those cute little organics that try and exterminate things get a pass.

Umm, they paid for their attempt at 100% extermination with 99% extermination. That is still better than what they would have done to the Geth.

And the Quarians need to talk to the douchebag organics that refuse to give them a planet. The Geth are their enemy because they made them an enemy. The Council are suppose to be their friends and allies and yet treat them like sh*t. But again, let's not say anything bad about those cute council races. Let's instead go and attack the guys our dads tried to exterminate because our friends treat us like crap.

You can't claim those laws say nothing about the Geth in one breath then in another claim the Quarians attempt at extermination was the result of those laws. Which is it? Those laws are also the reason the harmless AI on the Citadel were exterminated. So please, that argument is just bull.

Umm, the Turians killed billions of unborn babies that committed no crime because of what their parents did. Guess it is only bad when synthetics kill defenseless babies. The Quarians were aiming for 100% extermination of the Geth, they simply sucked at it.

And the Geth pose no threat if organics would simply leave them alone.

[silverexile17s]

Mangalores wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Mangalores wrote...

remydat wrote...

...

So fine punish the Geth for their response.  What are you going to do with all the organics that helped provoke that response?  Until you address that issue there can be no justice.  Just mob rule with organics being the mob.

For the Quarians it's a bit easier to put Gerrel and other hardliners before a tribunal, particularly for their way in which they escalated the conflict against the authority of other admirals (e.g. launching not agreed attacks to force other commanders into line). Geth have more difficulty (in the case of them trying to murder all Quarians) since they decide their actions based on a consensus.

Um.... AGAIN wrong. The quarian invasion was done with the consent of the MAJORITY of quarians. It's IMPOSSIBLE for Gerrel to force the fleet without Tali and Koris' support. Overrulling them like that is NOT possible, and is forbiddon by Quarian Law. Either ALL the Admirals have to agree, or a majoraty of quarians must vote for it. Since Tali and Koris didn't agree, but the fleet still went to war, it means that the MAJORITY of quarians WILLINGLY made the choice to fight, because they thought the Reapers would kill them all if they didn't. It was NOT a "rule by few" or "dictatorship." They chose an action they didn't want to do, because the alternitive was certen death. Sound familiar? @remydat, remember this circumstance? (*cough* geth siding with Reapers)

So @Mangalores, you can't really put Gerrel on tribunal for something the majority of quarians also chose as well. Ironicly, they are just as much a consensis as the geth. But as we also see, they would have been more then willing to accept peace, had they believed the geth would be open to it as well. After all, we know that for a fact, the geth shoot everyone theat tries to contact them, without even a warning. The only other race that does this is the krogan, and not even they shoot everyone that comes to talk to them 100% of the time. The only race that has shot everyone that ever came to see them was the geth. So yes, the quarians are more reasonable then the geth are when it comes to negotiation.

*sigh* Can you behave any more obnoxious? Very mature that. Learn some internet manners.

Gerrel violates orders on several occasions without refering back to other admirals who are comparatively pissed and forced into action. That's clear insubordination and sabotage of agreed strategy in war times. So, no, he obviously violates standing orders. Shala'Raan threatens to accuse him of treason based on precisely that. Several of the admirals reject his actions and are open to negotiation but are sabotaged by him. All this can be classified as high treason during a wartime.
Additionally this war is a treaty violation against the Council as per in game dialogue so the Council may bring justice down on anyone who supported such illegal actions.
The decision to go to war was made by the admirality board with a 3-2 vote as per in game dialogue as well. So YOU ARE WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS, regardless of what other sources say about the Quarian political system (and possibly we see a constitutional crisis unfolding)! btw: See, how annoying capital letters are?

Other than that the nature of a tribunal is that it is usually extrajudiciary (you can usually not apply to be tried by a normal court). We put the main instigators of war crimes and wars of aggression before tribunals regardless of the support they had in the general population. So it's not even an issue.

But Gerrel has the chance to be put on a Quarian tribunal for high treason by abusing his power as an admiral against the interests of the Flotilla and the Quarian species (by putting the civilian fleet in mortal danger due to his reckless behaviour) and a Council or Geth one for starting a war of aggression not sanctioned by the Council or threatening genocide against the Geth.

That introduction of yours screams the same thing. Lead by example, how about.

First off, AGAIN, completely incorrect, because the Heavy Fleet is Gerrel's juristiction. He notes himself that the manuver was completely within his athrourity. And in regards to that "not agreed in by the others," I seriously doubt Koris had permission from the other admirals to suicide-ram his ship into that planatary defense cannon. Sometimes the need for immediate action takes precidence. Just look at Shepard stealing the Normandy in ME1, and siding with Cerberus to fight the Collectors in ME2, or blwoing up the Mass Relay. By your logic, Shepard SHOULD be shot on sight.  So, WRONG, Gerrel is NOT in any violation. It's NOT 
"sabotage", it's taking decisive action in a war. And who ELSE would you rather trust the war effort to? Raan is useless as a war commander, Koris is just finishing crashing on Rannoch, Xen has no interest in battlefield command, Tali has no experiance, nor the desire to be responcible if things go worng. Gerrel is the only one left to step up and take charge. Shepard's done the exact same thing too, as I stated already above. It's retarded to blame Gerrel for an action Admiral Hackett also took at the Citadel Tower with Sovergien.
Also, LOL, what? Only Koris and Tali believed in peace. ONE geth, with NO proof of his word, trying to say that the past 300 years of gunpoint-enforced isolation was all just a misunderstanding? That's about as convincing as the agruement that the krogan won't go hostile under Wreve. Which ISN'T. Unless you provide PROOF, NO ONE is going to gamble 17 million lives on you. You are ridiculing Gerrel for NOT playing gambler with his entire race, and sticking to the action they HAD a garuntee would work? (remember, they did NOT account for Reaper interferance)
Also, AGAIN, WRONG, because that treaty is completely and utterly null and void. Because the Council and Alliance made twin declerations of war against the geth. That treaty was to prevent the quarians from provoking the geth - something that became COMPLETELY IRRLIVENT in preventing, because Saren and Sovergien already did it three years later. So, sorry, but that treaty is a completely worthless formality that Koris throws out to try and forstall the quarian war effort. It has zero weight anymore, just like the treaty that prohibits tampering with the genophage loses weight with the turians after the Reaper War hits Palaven.
Also, AGAIN, COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG. As stated by Tali in ME1, the Admirals CANNOT force the fleet to war unless ALL FIVE are in agreement on the action. Otherwise, the Conclave must poll amongst the quarian people, and decide either for, or against. It CANNOT be "dictated" unless all five agree. Koris and Tali do not, so the OLNY way the war is possible is if the Conclave agreed by majority. So AGAIN, YOU ARE WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS.
(And don't "worry" about me. I'm used to caps, because I use texting all the time. I'm not used to itillics or the like. Caps don't bother *me* at all, so don't bother "worrying" about me, because it doesn't look out of place to me in the least).

But AGAIN, that's completely and utterly incorrect.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQM4TFgDMo
That right there COMPLETELY DISPROVES your entire assertation about public opinion being irrlivent. To the quarians, IT IS, because they do everything as a "family" group, like the geth. They are a very insular race. And again, you can't persicute Gerrel anymore then you can Shepard, or Hackett, who throew away Arcturus Station and the entire Second Fleet so that the Third and Fifth could escape. By your logic, they DESERVE to die.

And AGAIN, no he DOESN'T, because it was a command decision to take out a major threat to the quarians. No different then what Hackett did with Sovergien in ME1. Neutrilizing a threat before it can become a major problem in the future is NOT grounds for any form of tribunal, especally when it's WITHIN YOUR ATHOURITY. Raan completely drops the topic after Gerrel points this out. Hackett says he understands Gerrel's position. Raan even does a full 180 and defends Gerrel's actions from Tali's scrutiny. So, sorry, but I think the quarians would likely agree that destroying that dreadnought before it can start chewing them apart AGAIN isn't a crime. Also, as far as the Council knows, (they are unaware of the Heretic Split) the geth tried the same thing to them and all other life with Sovergien. As far as the Council knows, the geth tried the exact same act of genocide against every other being in the galaxy. They would be more likely to give the quarians medals then they would be to punish them. And like I said, both the Alliance and Council have active declerations of war against the geth, so the invasion is NOT illegal in the slightest, because the Council has a general "kill on sight" order for geth.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

1. Just like you claim there is no reason for the Quarians to trust Legion, there is no reason for the Geth to trust the organics that tried to exterminate them, killed an innocent AI race on the citadel, and have as their official law synthetics should not exist. It is not blind fear because the laws exist and organics have in fact been trying to and succeeding in killing synthetics.

2. Tali and the Quarians with her know Shep is with Cerberus because he says so and is accompanied by Miranda and Jacob during the Veetor mission. Tali is concerned he is with Cerberus as are the Quarians with her. And how could they change her name to Vas Normandy if they did not know she was a member of the Normandy? So you are confused. Damn near the entire galaxy knows. There are news stories about Shep working with Cerberus. It is public knowledge.

3. The articles quote various people that say there is a moral obligation to stand up for human rights even when those rights conflict with the prevailing culture. So you either didn't read or comprehend the article.

4. Who said the Geth were peaceful? I said they responded to violence without mercy with violence without mercy. I said the Quarians attacked innocent Geth. If you disagree with those statements then show me where the Quarians showed mercy and let me know what crime the Geth committed beyond simply existing. Otherwise you are ranting about stuff I never said.

And once again, in response to the question, I will advocate the Geth be destroyed when the douchebags that provoked them are killed. That is my position. Happy to agree to disagree when you stop trying to tell me what I should believe. You are free to believe what you want as a I.

1. AGAIN, COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG. I will list them out AGAIN:
Opely boradcasting their location to the geth - WELL IN ADVANCE of reaching the Veil.
Clearly announcing they come in peace.
Unarmed Ships are STANDARD PRACTICE for peace envoys, as proven by the yagh encounter.
The geth'smastery of scanning technology could easily and quickly validate all this. It is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE the geth could believe they were anything but peace ships. And again, these AREN'T the organics that tried to kill them. Also, these organics are taking the first step and trying to PEACEFULLY talk. And AGAIN, you blatently ignore the fact that the geth could easily have warded them off BEFORE they crossed into the Veil. The ships were transmittting well before reaching the Veil. If they didn't want to talk, they could have formally declined, or warded them off. The did NOT need to shoot them dead.
And ONCE AGAIN, those A.I.s on the Citadel? NOT PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE. And DON'T say "it's all public knowledge," because guess what?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcXiV7Zs5Yw
First second of that vid. "18 previously unknown historical events." So, sorry, but your theroy about it being all public knowledge is dead and buried. This event with the A.I.s? One of those events. Otherwise something like that would be in public records.

2. AGAIN, wrong. Otherwise, don't you think they would not have asked for VERIVACTION? Expected means you don't have to confirm it's you. They would know what the Normandy looked like had they been expecting it - it's a pretty hard ship to miss or mistake. And AGAIN, the fact that Tali was surprised that her Ship Name was stripped means she did NOT anticapate bringing Shepard with her, because she was unaware that Shepard was now her legal represenative in the trial until Raan told her. And AGAIN, that was BEFORE she joined the Crew, and AGAIN, you assume she is going to publicly announce Shepard is alive and with Cerberus. The last thing she wants is to have people hunting Shepard down. And even then, Tali is STILL unaware of the partnership between Shepard and Cerberus, as when you recruit her from Haestrom, she says the thought was undercover trying to destroy Cerberus. So NO, she was NOT aware of how in-deep Shepard was, and even if she were, she would have concealed the fact to protect Shepard. Also, this was likely done after Rael's records were looked over by the others. The Normandy's name would be there, because Rael would need contact information to get to Tali if he needed it. But it being a Cerberus Ship would likely not be in the record. Either Rael would not want others to know his daugthter was on a  Cerberus Ship, or Tali never told anyone that the ship she was now serving on was a Cerberus ship.
So, SORRY, but again, YOU end up being the one that's confussed. AGAIN. Tali being on a Cerberus Ship would NOT be common knowledge to the quarians given their past with Cerberus, and that's even if Tali DID tell them Shepard was with them or that the ship she would be serving on was a Cerberus vessel, which she likely would not have. Remember, most, if not all of Tali's group on Freedom's Progress died, and the last would be gratefull to Tali and respect her wishes to protect Shepard.
So, sorry, but AGAIN, dead wrong. Also, Liara directly contridicts you. She says on Illium that Shepard being alive is NOT a publicly known fact. Or did the way EVERYONE saying "aren't you dead" a tip? Hell, not even Liara believed Shepard was really alive until seeing the Commander herself. And she says that not only is Shepard's survival a little-known fact, but that the Cerberus ties are an even LESS known fact - in fact, the only reason Liara knows about the Cerberus ties is because she was the one that gave Shepard to Cerberus.

3. AGAIN, dead wrong, because AGAIN, THOSE DISCUSS OUR CULTURE AND THE SIMILARATIES BETWEEN IT AND OTHER CULTUES. ONCE AGAIN, you fail Antropology 101, because OUR moral obligations are NOT the moral obliations of all living beings everywhere. It's in relation to OUR culture. NOT others. YOU are the one not comprehending that making observations about their moral structure in relation to OUR cultural standards does NOT give you the right to play God and say their way of life is wrong. It does NOT give you the right to say that they're lifestyle is completely wrong, and that it must change. You are not the divine. It's NOT up to you or any group of mortals to dictate how life should and shouldn't evolve, and react to each-other. We certinly don't have the right to tell a completely seperate culture how to encact laws within their own borders and courts.
What happens if you ever meet a race that has a completely different concept of Antroplolgy. You are going to blindly reject it because it doesn't fit your preconceptions? What a narrow-minded black and white view of life.

4. Um... YOU did? You said the geth were completely innocent and not a danger? Something the CODEX diffinitively disproves? "Tools of Labor and WAR."
Quarians actions = because they saw no other alternitive BUT to use such measures.
Geth actions = no other anternitive EVER taken or looked for.
The quarians only acted that way because they thought there was NO OTHER CHOICE. It was NOT thier default stance on the matter. It WAS for the geth. THAT"S the difference. They AREN'T "innocent" because they ALL are pre-programed soldiers. A gun that hasn't shot a bullet isn't "innocent." It's still a gun, and still a dangerous killing machine. "innocent" makes ABSOLUTLY NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER. A fact you REPEATEDLY ignore.
And AGAIN, the fact that the quarians DIDN'T instantly shoot them? How about THAT? Their first instinct was to wait and see. Then they realized that the geth were on the path to sapiance, and tried reprogramming them. When ALL OTHER OPTIONS failed, they panicked and resorted to attacking. They DIDN'T attack as a default. They DIDN'T slaughter as a default. The geth DID. And before you go on some half-assed tangent about "reprogramming being brainwashing," Legion himself says thinking of it like that is benign antromorphism - a racist judgement. And being "reprogrammed" was better then killing them, at least. Untill the quarians realized the only forseeable paths led to either geth rebellion or Council martial law. Nither of which would end well for them.

And AGAIN, I point out that (A) that's wrong because the quarians were backed into a corner and had no other option to choose, EITHER time they started a war, and ( It STILL has ABSOLUTLY NO RELATION to the original question posed by this topic, which is - Are the geth worth sacrificing the only sure-fire way to end the Reaper threat forever? Are they worth potentally risking every other life in the galaxy for?
STOP DODGING THE QUESTION. Give a straight-up answer that actually REFUTES the topic. Or else, you are bacisally stating that this entire time you have been going in circles because you CAN'T think of a reason the geth's survival takes precidence over beating the Reapers. Just drop the double-standard already.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 02 mai 2013 - 12:03 .

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

S.A.K wrote...

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Look at all these nerds debating the outcome of a virtual species...

I'm kidding. But if you think the Geth deserve to die, you're racist. Think of the Geth as blacks and think of the Quarians as whites, try make sense of that (don't want to get too touchy, because this be a sensitive subject.)

Really, the evidence adds up to the Quarians being the aggressor(s).

If someone want to kill the Geth for just hate, sure. The situation here is Geth pose a very real threat to the rest of the galaxy. They are willing to screw the whole galaxy to improve themselves and they have kill every organics who came into contact with them in the last 300 years, did they not?
Last time I checked, blacks or whites were not a threat to galactic stability. So, it's not a good comparison.

That is last statement is getting into too many details. You tell me, what is another REAL comparision that has threatened galactic stability? *Tumbleweed rolls across the ground* It's impossible to make a comparison if you go into specific details.

They aren't a threat anymore, they offered to help out organics. Even the Geth Prime wanted to help. They are killing organics because the organics will kill them. I don't see how they're anymore of a threat to galactic peace than Krogans or Rachni.

Justice says the Quarians are the invaders. The Quarians first started attacking. There was practically a Geth genocide, would you blame Jews for WW2's disgusting practices? No you wouldn't.

Not saying the Quarians should die even though they're a pathetic race, they should be punished. Not exterminated. The Geth don't deserve any of this. The Geth did some bad things too, but they did those bad things because they were frightened.

It all boils down to the Quarian's fault. You can't argue about this.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

Hence why I made that comparison. The Quarians tried to genocide the Geth but they failed because they're Quarians and they got kicked off a planet. The ****s got punished by the Russians.

But please, do tell me what is a worse scenario than this one that involves the introduction of the victim and the point of conflict.

EDIT: Apparently Hitler's party's name gets censored on BSN. Ho-ho-ho-kaching!

Modifié par ZeCollectorDestroya, 01 mai 2013 - 09:20 .

[justafan]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Hence why I made that comparison. The Quarians tried to genocide the Geth but they failed because they're Quarians and they got kicked off a planet. The ****s got punished by the Russians.

But please, do tell me what is a worse scenario than this one that involves the introduction of the victim and the point of conflict.

EDIT: Apparently Hitler's party's name gets censored on BSN. Ho-ho-ho-kaching!

So, you're saying that not only was the mass rape and pillaging of East German civilians by the Red Army totally justified, but that it was too good for them, that had all but those few who could escape to the west been executed on the spot, it would have OK considering what their leaders did and ordered?

The Quarians certainly deserved to be punished for what they did, but there is a fine line between what is justified and what is not, and the Geth crossed it like the Panzers did the Maginot line.

[remydat]

Silver

1. Glad you trust people who try to exterminate you because they say peace on the radio. The Geth don't and I agree with them. You are free to trust them. I am free not to.

2. In the Veetor mission Shep has to decide whether Veetor goes with Tali or back with CERBERUS for questioning. Tali and her team know that he, Jacob and Miranda are with Cerberus. The rest of her team nearly get themselves killed because they want to get to Veetor before CERBERUS. Did you skip this mission?

3. http://www.aaanet.or...uman-Rights.cfm

When any culture or society denies or permits the denial of such opportunity to any of its own members or others, the American Anthropological Association has an ethical responsibility to protest and oppose such deprivation.

4. I said the Geth were innocent prior to the Quarians attacking them pre-MW. Still waiting on you telling me what crime they committed back then. I never claimed they were innocent for eternity. If I did then provide the post where I said this.

Modifié par remydat, 01 mai 2013 - 03:05 .