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[shodiswe]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

shodiswe wrote...
They are also militaristic basturds who will betray anyone if it nets them a temporary advantage. (Admiral Gerrel).
.

So you dismiss all the Quarians as "milliltaristic basturds" but can only provide one example. classic.

Unfortunately the people who dissagreed with the admirals didn't storm them put them in a brig, trial them for treason and then put a bullet in the back of their head and provide them with a swift dignified Death for their treason against the people! That would have proven that they didn't support the war.
After all, the Quarian side of the argument usualy tends to Point out the Geth inability or reluctance to chase down the heretics, or handle business. Apparently the Quarians are quite happy letting extremists like Gerrel and mad people like Xen rule them.

I can see if the Quarians though Xen was a good Scientist but  Ican't see how they coudl make her an Admiral, insanity and leadership doesn't go hand in hand. Insane people need others to help them Control their urges and insanity.
Or maybe Bioware really had to go to lengths to paint the Quarians out as a the bad guys to justify their actions and choosing differently. Or maybe it was just for the drama.

All that aside, I still Think the Rannoch missions were some of the best in the game along side the Tuchanka missions. Good drama, great characters even if a Little crazy, but it might actualy have added to it.

[shodiswe]

S.A.K wrote...

I made peace on Rannoch on all my play throughs but would have destroyed the Geth on Rannoch if they survive the destroy ending. Too much can go wrong with the Geth. I guess Javik had a point.

One difference with Javiks AI's was that they were created to Control, rule and guide and above all else save the people they were ruling. The thing is, they were shackled with the command to be A-holes, that's a very bad idea.
All AI's that go bad got that one bit of code that gives them purpose, and in the name of that purpose they have a holy mission to do anythign to accomplish that purpose.
That's like creating a bunch of really crazy religious people who are told their mission is to rule the World and save other people who are not quite as "chosen" as they are.

That AI Race of Javics time is nothing like the Geth, they were more like the catalyst. The thing is most synthetics would probably work like that, being hardwired to accomplish one thing no matter the cost, because they were simply created to be Tools. By making them single minded Tools with an absolute belief and the intelect and creativity and  reasoning capabilities of a normal person then you got a recipe for disaster.

The Geth are more like organics in the sense that they havn't got a hardcoded purpose, they can reason and find their own purpose and solutions that makes sense like any sane person. Some might go insane like any organic person, but it's not hardcoded into them, like it is with the Catalyst.

Considerign all the pirates, mercenaries, smuglers, drugdealers, terrorists and other undesirable elements of all the Organic races the Geth arn't that bad.
They had the Heretics, the Humans had Cerberus, the Turians had Saren and his people, the Asari had Benezia and her commandos. There were also other Asari and Salarian indoctrinated people.
It would also seem your ideals are in the minority, people might be choosing destroy but that's not to kill the Geth, the majority of the destroyers simply don't care much about anything other than "winning" against the Reapers, and in their mind a dead oponent is the proof they need.

Modifié par shodiswe, 16 avril 2013 - 06:04 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

S.A.K

You had to know sooner or later I would make an appearance.

1.  The Geth allowed the Heretics to go off and fight people hostile to them who thought they should not exist and who tried to exterminate them.  If they had intervened, it is very likely that if the Quarians found at the Geth were engaged in a civilain war they would have rewarded the orthodox Geth for their sacrifice by trying to exterminate them.  In any event, in the peace option, the Geth are now allied with organics.  Let heretics go kill your enemies is entirely different than letting them kill your allies.

2. The rest of the Galaxy said they should not exist.  I don't go looking to hang out with the KKK.  Legion and only Legion was sent because they did not want to incite the organics that didn't think they should exist.  This is stated clearly in the game.  It is kind of silly to complain that they didn't send more as if the organics would respond wel to more Geth in their space.  Also, for all we know the reason why the Organics never attacked and went into Geth space is no ship ever returned from Geth space to give them intel on Geth defenses and positions.  When your stated policy is I should not exist, why should anyone believe you when you claim you come in peace?  As if no one has ever used peace as an excuse to gather intel about an enemy.

3.  The Council denied the Quarians a colony for no reason.  I repeat no reason.  Should the Council be destroyed.  The Geth had reason to fear that with a homeworld the Quarians would attack again.  There is no f**king reason for the Council to be a**holes after their policies help cost the Quarians 2 billion lives and a homeworld and to also let racism against the Quarians aka suit rats to be so prevalent.  I await you starting a thread about how the Council should be destroyed.  Or are you going to tell me about the good things the Council have done for the Quarians that I missed?

4.  The only reason to trust the Reaper code is because Legion has been using it from the time you meet him to save the Quarians.  The only reason the Geth need the RC is because the Quarians would exterminate them otherwise.  The Quarians used dismembered Geth to create a weapon to disable the Geth.  They are not fighting fair.  They don't fight the Geth man to man.  They disable them and then kill them while disabled.  Let's stick the Geth and Quarians in a room, give each a bunch of dead or dying members of the enemy and tell them they can develop weapons using those dead or dying members and see what each comes up with.  That would be a fair fight. 

5. The Citadel Council is corrupt.  Refer to 3 above.  These a**holes have denied the Quarians a planet just to f**k with them and also uplifted a race they knew was not ready, used them as cannon fodder and then subjected them to billions of stillbirths when their existence became problematic.  So guess what, f**k the council.  The Geth have no obligation to listen to those corrupt a**holes and if the Quarians had done the same 300 years ago, they would likely not have lost billions of people.  Here is a suggestion, when the Council consists of members of every race and they are all EQUAL, then maybe talk to the Geth.

Well yes. I should have expected you.

1. So that excuses letting the Heretics almost destroy the galaxy? If Tali didn't find that data, everyone including the Geth would have been screwed.

2. The laws against AI were older than the Geth self-awareness. It was to prevent things like the MW from happeneing. Council also had rules against attacking the Geth remember? Geth didn't make any attempt at peace. Not as much as a single message to change organics outlook on them. They were studying the extra net so they knew why the organics fear them. I am sorry, but your point don't make any sense.

3. Council took action against the Quarians for braking the law and unleashing a hostile synthatic race on the galaxy. Not saying they are right, but the Geth did not provide any reason to change their minds. That does not excuse the Geths actions anyway.

4. That doesn't give reason to trust the code. Geth were killing anything approaching the Quarian systems. When they had to face someone who can actually fight them, they just joined the common enemy. Cowards. That alone is enough reason to oppose the Geth.

5. Council had to make a tough choice in the Krogan war. The only choices they had was die or put down the Krogan. They could have completely killed the Krogan, but they did not. I don't see how this makes them "corrupt". I am speaking of a situation where all are considered equal including the Geth.  All races has to follow rules, if you are saying Geth will not abide by them and become a rogue state like the Batarians, you have proven my point about Geth being a threat.

@shodiswe. Organics do have criminal organizations like pirates and Cerberus. The respective side of the are the Heretics. Difference is that the organics are fighting against these organizations and the Geth allow them to continue.

@remyday, you are just trying to make excuses for everything the Geth have done. I don't know where you got this misplaced sympathy for the Geth. Try to see the big picture.

Modifié par S.A.K, 16 avril 2013 - 07:31 .

[Nightdragon8]

about the Hertics honestly I dont think its right to say that they wher pirates, and it wasn't until Legion's loyalty mission that Legion finds out they where being considered Hostile to the Hertics.

The Hertics had the Geth blessing in leaving, Like a spliter colony going off to have there own way of things.

The Geth only realized after they attacked the organics that it was a mistake. Thus the reason for Legions Lolitaly mission. And heck even gave the choice of rewriting or destroying them to Shep.

So they didn't agree with the Hertics either.

[remydat]

1. I am saying if people organic or otherwise cared when their enemies are attacked theb they wouldn't be enemies. If Cerberus was planning to invade and destroy thr Geth, everyone would let them.

2. Not sure the point. The laws helped create the MW. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. If I say Sak will hit me and then I punch you in the face and you hit me, have I proven that you would have always it me or have I created the situation that made you hitting me possible? There is no evidence that in the absence of this law the Geth would attack. There is evidence the Quarian attempt to kill the Geth was a result of the law.

3. See two above. The Council punished them because their law made the MW possible. Instead of acknowledging that they punished people who just lost 2 billion lives. I doubt if the council were synthetic you would be so forgiving.

4. If legion saving them with the code is not evidence then don't know what is. Cowards experiment on the enemy to create a weapon that disables the Geth. There is nothing courageous about paralyzing your enemy so you can kill them. Again if the Geth had experimented on organics to create a weapon that paralyzed us so they could kill us without having to actually stand toe to toe and fight, you would be calling them cowards.

5. The krogan problem was created by the council who uplifted them. The council knew they were not ready. They could have fought the rachni like adults. Instead they were cowards uplifted a race to use as canon fodder and then subjected then to billions of stillbirths. There were better solutions. They could have used it as a deterrent like the Salarians had intended. They could have made the effects curable while warning they had an uncurable version if the krogan did not learn the first time. They could done any number of things FIRST before doing it. The citadel archives makes this clear because the Turians unleashed it without Salarian consent. Why? Becausr it was suppose to be a DETERRENT not actually deployed on the entire Krogan population. That was a decision the Turian ****s made on their own. Even a felliw turian opposed it and was detained. So no explain to me why the Council isn't corrupt. Need I remind you the Asari hid a beacon which was against the laws they established. Why? So they could benefit from their secret beacon while forcing every other raxe to share knowledge of their beacons. They are corrupt.

[S.A.K]

Lol ofc they wouldn't. Geth didn't do anything to prove they are not hostile. Cerberus attacking the Geth will weaken two hostile factions. Why should anyone stop that? Not sure what you are trying to prove by that.

Point is that the law is older than the Geth. That's why Quarians were worried they were braking the law. Geth gaining self-awareness was not intended. I don't see how it is the councils fault. The law was there to prevent people from developing AI and nothing else.

I am saying that the commander has not reason to trust it other than taking Legions desperate words at face value. Legion will still use it even if it was hazardous because the Geth have no other choice. Thats more reason not  to trust it.
Lol! You are saying developing new weapons is a cowardly act and joining the common enemy to save your own ass isn't? So I guess all those counter terror groups using flashbangs are cowards too. Why are you going so far to white wash the Geth?
Saying things like this make you loose your credibility.

Looks like you don't know what political corruption is. Krogan are violent by nature. Uplifting them to fight the Rachni was mistake for sure. When they almost destroyed the other races, Krogan had to be put down. Not saying it's a good thing but it had to be done. If you paid attention you'll see that the Krogan are still the same. And hiding that beacon was done by the Asari alone. They kept it hinden from the council as well. Asari paid for it by loosing Thesia. You should pay more attention.

[Wayning_Star]

S.A.K wrote...

Lol ofc they wouldn't. Geth didn't do anything to prove they are not hostile. Cerberus attacking the Geth will weaken two hostile factions. Why should anyone stop that? Not sure what you are trying to prove by that.

Point is that the law is older than the Geth. That's why Quarians were worried they were braking the law. Geth gaining self-awareness was not intended. I don't see how it is the councils fault. The law was there to prevent people from developing AI and nothing else.

I am saying that the commander has not reason to trust it other than taking Legions desperate words at face value. Legion will still use it even if it was hazardous because the Geth have no other choice. Thats more reason not  to trust it.
Lol! You are saying developing new weapons is a cowardly act and joining the common enemy to save your own ass isn't? So I guess all those counter terror groups using flashbangs are cowards too. Why are you going so far to white wash the Geth?
Saying things like this make you loose your credibility.

Looks like you don't know what political corruption is. Krogan are violent by nature. Uplifting them to fight the Rachni was mistake for sure. When they almost destroyed the other races, Krogan had to be put down. Not saying it's a good thing but it had to be done. If you paid attention you'll see that the Krogan are still the same. And hiding that beacon was done by the Asari alone. They kept it hinden from the council as well. Asari paid for it by loosing Thesia. You should pay more attention.

lol, some one is excusifying the gist of the story, altering history to meet needed expectation.

The real and ONLY problem is the lack of communication, with all things MEU, be it synthetic or organic. The failure is due to lack of interest and probably the inherent urge to be victorious. An illusion, as Javik would surmise.

(note: any old law pertaining to the invention/intentional creation of Ai in the MEU is Leviathan based, goes way back. There is no other reason to 'commit' to such a law, as there is no Canons of Construction  to cover it presently.)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Can someone explain to me how people remy came up with only 2 billion for the quarians? It is merely an arm wave number and I think it is quite low. I figure it was something around 9 billion at the height of their civilization. They held more than just Rannoch. If you look at the populations of the main worlds for the major races they range from 3 billion (Krogan) to 15 billion (Batarian).

If the authorities had acted quicker originally 300 years earlier the Morning War never would have happened, but the politicians played games, and allowed the Geth time to form a consensus, and gain the upper hand. Now the Quarians finally had the upper hand to take back their world and they're wrong for doing that. I don't get it.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Then when your common enemy is gone, what then? Are you still friends? Not necessarily. Look at America and the USSR during WWII. Friends. Post war: enemies. Why? Different ideologies. So will the Geth help the Quarians for now, but later not feel the same? Will the Quarians accept their help for now, but not feel the same later? Is this a temporary peace? We don't know.

And up until ME3 the Geth as far as we knew were sticking humans on spikes and turning them into husks. We didn't know if it was reaper tech or geth tech. In ME2 "these husks look different. More evolved than the ones we saw on Eden Prime." So those were reaper husks. I guess the ones we saw on Eden Prime were Geth tech. Oh, yes, heretics. They all look alike to me.

Regarding the Asari losing Thessia. They didn't lose Thessia because of that beacon. They would have lost Thessia anyway. Their fleet was doing a good job at delaying the reapers and was dealing them some pretty heavy losses. The reapers had been engaging the Asari in space, but changed their tactics and landed on Thessia. Humans lost Earth. The Turians lost Palaven, and didn't have that "miracle" until they got the Krogan. The Salarians just hid. Fighting a sustained ground war? They lost 400,000,000. How could that beacon have helped?

What if the Turians had that knowledge during the First Contact War? It would have shifted the balance of power from the Asari holding the middle ground to the Turians. There might never have been an Earth Alliance. Earth might have ended up as part of the Turian empire, or the Batarian Hegemony might have seen an opportunity to expand. It's a two edged sword.

Remember what Javik said about the Normandy. He could tell you exactly where everything was on the ship because it was designed exactly like the ships in his cycle. I don't think anyone could hold out in a sustained ground war. The Protheans couldn't either.

Every race has their secrets. If anyone thinks for one minute that the other council races weren't holding back secrets from the others they're naive. The Salarians probably have a beacon hidden that holds all of the Prothean genetic information on the galaxy. You don't think they became genetic experts on their own, do you? But I guess they're just smart in that area. They're performing the same experiments as the Protheans.

[remydat]

SAK,

1. Of course the Geth wouldnt fight the heretics. Organics have proven nothing but hilostile to them. It works both ways. If you don't expect orgainc to intervene when cerberus attacks their enemy not sure why you expect the geth to intervene when the heretics attack their enemy.

2. The law created the problem it was designed to prevent. Just like if I intend to prevent conflict by going around punching people in the face, I willl create conflict.

3. You are confused. I never said the Geth act was not cowardly. Experimenting on the enemy to develop a weapon to paralyze them is also cowardly. If counter terror groups experimented or tortured people to develop their weapons then it is cowardly.

4. The turians used the geonophage against the will of salarians and the other turian there. That is corrupt. The Asari hid a beacon while creating laws to prevent others from doing the same. That is corrupt. The salarians uplifted a race they knew to not be ready. That is corrupt. They wanted Shep to do what they did in using the krogan as canon fodder while lying to them about a cure. That is corrupt. The turians started a war because humans accessed a relay. They didn't explain to them the problem. They started a war that is corrupt. The Council denied the Quarians a world after they lost billions for no real reason. That is corrupt.

5. Eve said the females would refuse to have children rather than allow their children to be used by Wreav for war. They just lived with billions of stillbirths and you think the femaled will just let their children be used in war? Oh right the krogan look like animals so lets act like that is all they are. Meanwhile the Quarians attack the Geth twice but they deserve salvation. Oh right Tali is hot. Sorry you have no basis to continue to punish a group for what their ancestors did. Eve clearly says the females will opt for civil war but no she can't be believed because she isnt pretty enough I guess.

[remydat]

Shotgun

A quarian supporter referenced the number in the other thread not me.

We learn in Me2 about the heretics not ME3

The Asari created laws preventing other races from hiding beacons while they were hiding one all along. That is what makes it hypocritical and corrupt. The only reason the law exists is because the pretty ****s figured people would be as shady as them so created a law to discourage it.

Modifié par remydat, 16 avril 2013 - 06:42 .

[Argolas]

remydat wrote...

Shotgun

A quarian supporter referenced the number in the other thread not me.

We learn in Me2 about the heretics not ME3

The Asari crated laws preventing other races from hiding beacons while they were hiding one all along. That is what makes it hypocritical and corrupt. The only reason the law exists is because the pretty ****s figured people would be as shady as them so created a law to discourage it.

And in ME3, all geth become what ME2 called heretics...

As for the Asari, there are only few who knew about the beacon. It would be like calling you a hypocrite because someone from your government broke a law of your country.

Modifié par Argolas, 16 avril 2013 - 06:41 .

[Khelish]

The cycle... It never ends...

[remydat]

Argolas,

As a direct result of the Quarians.

And I am referring to the Asari government. They are the ones who created the laws and they are the ones that did so because they were hiding a beacon and didn't want other races to do the same. Or a re you going to prentend no one but Benezia knew, lol.

[DDG4005]

Did the Geth deserve destruction?  Yes they deserved to die and I hope they burn in hell (in my best Samuel L. Jackson voice)!

[remydat]

Khelish wrote...

The cycle... It never ends...

let the record show this cycle was started by the Quarians.  Always picking fights, lol.

Modifié par remydat, 16 avril 2013 - 06:48 .

[Argolas]

remydat wrote...

Argolas,

As a direct result of the Quarians.

And I am referring to the Asari government. They are the ones who created the laws and they are the ones that did so because they were hiding a beacon and didn't want other races to do the same. Or a re you going to prentend no one but Benezia knew, lol.

I don't entirely disagree with your first statement. Did the Quarians push the geth? Yes. Does this justify their decision to join the reapers? No. Even Legion acknowledges that, otherwise he would be with his people instead of helping Shepard.

The whole government? If I recall correctly, not even the councillor knew. I don't doubt that those Asari who knew are to blaim with what you say, but you can't blame it on the Asari as a whole.

[Khelish]

remydat wrote...

Khelish wrote...

The cycle... It never ends...

let the record show this cycle was started by the Quarians.  Always picking fights, lol.

You honestly didn't get enough out of that other thread that is now locked? How about you guys just give it a rest. When Silver gets on, this will be "The lousy debate 2.0"

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

SAK,

1. Of course the Geth wouldnt fight the heretics. Organics have proven nothing but hilostile to them. It works both ways. If you don't expect orgainc to intervene when cerberus attacks their enemy not sure why you expect the geth to intervene when the heretics attack their enemy.

2. The law created the problem it was designed to prevent. Just like if I intend to prevent conflict by going around punching people in the face, I willl create conflict.

3. You are confused. I never said the Geth act was not cowardly. Experimenting on the enemy to develop a weapon to paralyze them is also cowardly. If counter terror groups experimented or tortured people to develop their weapons then it is cowardly.

4. The turians used the geonophage against the will of salarians and the other turian there. That is corrupt. The Asari hid a beacon while creating laws to prevent others from doing the same. That is corrupt. The salarians uplifted a race they knew to not be ready. That is corrupt. They wanted Shep to do what they did in using the krogan as canon fodder while lying to them about a cure. That is corrupt. The turians started a war because humans accessed a relay. They didn't explain to them the problem. They started a war that is corrupt. The Council denied the Quarians a world after they lost billions for no real reason. That is corrupt.

5. Eve said the females would refuse to have children rather than allow their children to be used by Wreav for war. They just lived with billions of stillbirths and you think the femaled will just let their children be used in war? Oh right the krogan look like animals so lets act like that is all they are. Meanwhile the Quarians attack the Geth twice but they deserve salvation. Oh right Tali is hot. Sorry you have no basis to continue to punish a group for what their ancestors did. Eve clearly says the females will opt for civil war but no she can't be believed because she isnt pretty enough I guess.

1. Then you prove my point about Geth being a threat to all organics.

2. Your example makes no sense. If the law caused the problem if was ment to fix, it is an accident.

3. Lol! How is developing a weapon to use in the war considered cowardly?  They used the data obtained by doind experiments on disabled Geth parts. It is said that those assembled Geth are not even sapient. Do you even know what coward mean? By your logic, we shouldn't even use Maelon's data to cure the Genopage.
On the other hand you approve allowing Geth to use the Reaper code to kill Quarians. Double standard much?

4. Now you are not even talking about the council...

5. Really? Now you are being childish and insulting. "Punish a group for what their ancestors did" is exactly what everyone did to the Quarians. That's geth and the council. Both sides forced the Quarians to go to war to retake the world they desperately need. I never said the Genopage was right. This thread is not about the Genopage anyway.<_<

Can you really disprove anything I said in the original post other than trying to make excuses for what the Geth did or trying to blame it on someone else for no real reason?

Modifié par S.A.K, 16 avril 2013 - 07:23 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

Argolas,

As a direct result of the Quarians.

As a direct result of their own action as well. As I explained before, without the Geths stupid isolation policy, Quarians wouldn't need to attack the Geth.
Worst thing the Quarians did was giving life to a stupid synthatic race...

Argolas wrote...

I don't entirely disagree with your first
statement. Did the Quarians push the geth? Yes. Does this justify their
decision to join the reapers? No. Even Legion acknowledges that,
otherwise he would be with his people instead of helping Shepard.

I agree with this as well.

Modifié par S.A.K, 16 avril 2013 - 07:18 .

[Wayning_Star]

S.A.K wrote...

remydat wrote...

Argolas,

As a direct result of the Quarians.

As a direct result of their own action as well. As I explained before, without the Geths stupid isolation policy, Quarians wouldn't need to attack the Geth.
Worst thing the Quarians did was giving life to a stupid synthatic race...

Argolas wrote...

I don't entirely disagree with your first
statement. Did the Quarians push the geth? Yes. Does this justify their
decision to join the reapers? No. Even Legion acknowledges that,
otherwise he would be with his people instead of helping Shepard.

I agree with this as well.

actually, nature did that, as neither Quarians nor Human 'gave life' to any synthetics. Even the Leviathan, as the intelligence "became" self aware all on their lonesome.

Life is spontaneous.


It's funny how folks puts value judgment upon geth, but then do the same thing with the destroy choice... weird.

[Wayning_Star]

stupid chaos.. the cat was right...

[remydat]

Khelish wrote...

You honestly didn't get enough out of that other thread that is now locked? How about you guys just give it a rest. When Silver gets on, this will be "The lousy debate 2.0"

I guess you could ask SAK that question.  He was in that thread and started this one. 

[Khelish]

remydat wrote...

I guess you could ask SAK that question.  He was in that thread and started this one. 

That was why my first post here, was stating this cycle never ends. I agree with SAK, though he shouldn't have made this thread.

Don't you think both sides should take a small break from this topic? 

If you don't want to, your call, but I haven't seen any new stuff regarding this topic in a long time.

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

1. Well yes I think we can agree that when organics say you shouldn't exist and try to exterminate you then you are a threat to them because they chose to make you one.

2. No it is stupidity which irrational fear and prejudice usually is.

3. If those Geth were not sentient then how did they take over the Alarei?  And no Maelon's data was used to help not to kill.  No I approve the Geth use RC to better themselves.  They only kill Quarians if the Quarians choose to shoot at them.

4. When I talk about the Council, I am talking about the races that dominate the Council.

5.  No that is what the council did.  The Geth did not attack Quarians.  They left them alone.  They simply did not give them a planet that they could use to destroy them.  The Geth's actions are to prevent further Quarian attacks.  The Council's actions are just to be pricks.  They have no reall reason to punish a people that already lost billions.  How the Quarians not suffered enough.
  
I am stating your opinion is based on a biased perspective.  You excuse the Council oppressing the Quarians when the Council has nothing to fear from the Quarians while blaming the Geth for not playing nice with the people that wish to destroy them.  You basically are mad because the enemy (Geth) are not nice but then act like the friend (Council) is right to not be nice.  Enemies are enemies for a reason.  Why are an alleged ally acting this way?

I have said nothing childish and insulting to you so let's try to avoid accussations about each other and focus on the debate.

Modifié par remydat, 16 avril 2013 - 07:48 .

[S.A.K]

Khelish wrote...

remydat wrote...

I guess you could ask SAK that question.  He was in that thread and started this one. 

That was why my first post here, was stating this cycle never ends. I agree with SAK, though he shouldn't have made this thread.

Don't you think both sides should take a small break from this topic? 

If you don't want to, your call, but I haven't seen any new stuff regarding this topic in a long time.

I started this to discuss the choice in the destroy ending mostly. But now it does look like a bad idea.