452 réponses à ce sujet

[S.A.K]

Asharad Hett wrote...

Without Quarians, the Geth wouldn't exist.  

That's the part these Geth lovers conveniently forget...

remydat wrote...
And they were rewarded for creating the Geth when the Geth decided not to completely exterminate their creators at the end of the MW.

That's a pretty stupid statement after they killed billions.<_<
So I "rewarded" the Geth by putting them out of their misery. Fair enough right?

[N7puscN7]

Dumping 30+ dreadnoughts can't be a good idea.

[Auld Wulf]

S.A.K wrote...

That's the part these Geth lovers conveniently forget...

This. Right here. This is why this thread shouldn't exist.

See, quarian-supporters turn their real world racist habits to fiction, thus they see things in the same black & white way as tehy do with the real world. They no doubt have absolute hates based in reality, too. The problem with a racist mindset though is that the racist assumes that everyone is racist. In every respect. They can't actually even begin to wrap their mind around the possibility that someone might not be.

IFor example? I, as a long-time supporter of the geth, do not hate the quarian peoples. At all. Not even remotely. In fact, I've often said that I dig Koris and Tali. Now, I think that Gerrel and Xen are nasty, egomaniacal, unethical persons whom the world might be better off without. But that's based in the reality of the canon. Gerrel is the kind of person who makes unprovoked bombing runs, and effectively 'straps bombs to hostages and has them run at their enemies.' (Strapping thanix cannons to liveships.)

I'm not fond of Hackett either for pulling similar shenanigans to Gerrel. I'd see them both imprisoned if it was my choice, but that's disliking the individual for individual actions. I've often said that the only evil the quarian peoples have tends to stem from their military, not from anywhere else, and that Koris is the absolute proof of this. Ultimately, the quarians are a good peoples, just suffering under bad leadership. The further problem is that quarin supporters love bad leadership. It's a kind of black & white propaganda, y'know?

Me am gud, you am bad. Me am destroy all you because you am bad.

A more intellectual mind realises that such a black and white mindset is actually inefficient and unable to fully perceive the reality around them. Look at the quote again, just take a moment and look at it, and try to understand what it means in regards to this debate. Based upon the opening post, S.A.K. is clearly racist in a very black & white way against the geth. He hates all geth. Because he hates all geth, and his mind is prone to racist ways of thinking, he believes that those who support the geth must hate all quarians. All quarians.

Let that sink in for a moment. Realise how incredibly important that is.

This is why this debate is going to go around and around. It's a neverending cycle of:

"I hate the geth."
"Well, yeah. They're not perfect. Some quarians aren't perfect either."
"So you hate every quarian alive?"
"I never said that."
"So the geth are perfect to you with all they've done?"
"I never said that."
"It's people like you who think the quarians are evil that makes me hate the geth!!!"
"But I never said--"
"Yeah, you think quarians are aaall evil. But you just can't see how perfect and flawless they are."
"Hey now, it's not that simple, no one is perfec--"
"Oh, so you're attacking the quarians? You think they're all evil, I know. And you think the geth are so perfect."
"Actually, the geth heretics were a mistake, as was the Morning War, I--"
"The Morning War! Where the geth mercilessly slaughtered everyone!"
"Actually, quarian civilians stood by them, so it wasn't so black & whi--"
"EVERYONE!!!!!!!!"

And so on.

And so on.

And so on.

Ad nauseum.

This thread needs to not exist.

Edit: Here's a question...

Please think on this question.

If the geth were so evil, why did the quarians you love so much side with them in the Morning War?

I have an answer: The quarians are less racist than their fanclub.

Does no one else see this? :I

It reminds me of the age old saying about Christianity (and one I subscribe to) "I don't dislike God, I just dislike a lot of their fanclub." This tends to be because there has typically been a non-trivial amount of racism and homophobia in Christianity.

Fact: I do not hate quarians. I just really dislike their overzealous, religious, borderline-crazy fanclub.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 19 avril 2013 - 01:09 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Auld Wulf wrote...
This thread needs to not exist.

No, the Geth need to not exist.  Fortunately, we are given that option.

[Ryzaki]

Asharad Hett wrote...

remydat wrote...

  I always get confused by you Quarian supporters

Without Quarians, the Geth wouldn't exist.  

And what exactly?

Shep wouldn't be alive without Cerberus. Doesn't mean I'm gonna side with em.

[remydat]

Sak

That is the cold hard math. The Quarians were rewarded for trying to shutdown the Geth by having billions logged off the server called life. They were rewarded for creating them despite the attempt to shut them down by not having all the Quarians logged off permanently.

And if you want to put them out of their misery in your games, go right ahead. Not sure why you say that as if I am going to be distraught by that fact.

Modifié par remydat, 19 avril 2013 - 02:46 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

Sak

That is the cold hard math. The Quarians were rewarded for trying to shutdown the Geth by having billions logged off the server called life. They were rewarded for creating them despite the attempt to shut them down by not having all the Quarians logged off permanently.

And if you want to put them out of their misery in your games, go right ahead. Not sure why you say that as if I am going to be distraught by that fact.

As a matter of fact I did when I did the destroy ending. I'm well aware you don't care about my choices. It's just my way of "rewarding" the Geth based on your "cold hard math".

[silverexile17s]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

That's the part these Geth lovers conveniently forget...

This. Right here. This is why this thread shouldn't exist.

See, quarian-supporters turn their real world racist habits-

No.
One.
Cares.

Why is it, whenever a Quarian supporter dares to *gasp* defend the Quarians and criticize the Geth, (a synthetic hive-mind who lack any real individuality might I add), you cry racism, but when people in their droves want to wipe out the Quarians, every man woman and child, a real living breathing species, because "Gerrel was mean to meee", "They're stoopid heads" or some other asinine reason, and actually take pleasure in doing so, you don't even bat an eyelid?

@remydat

Oh so every Quarian was in on it where they? Every Quarian was somehow just itching to kill some Geth the moment they became alive? They all got what was going to them? And what do you mean 'rewarded' by being allowed to leave, you do realize that if they hadn't escaped, the Geth would have wiped them out? They didn't try to finish them off because they couldn't comprehend the idea of genocide, not out of mercy or pity.

Legion himself tells you that the geth being incapable of mathmatically computing the ramafacations of genocide was the thing that stopped them from finishing the quarians. NOT mercy or pity.
Also, the idea that every single quarian was in on the Morning War is downright headcannon. It's physically impossible for all the men, woman, childeren, sick, and elderly to suddenly become a race that has everyone able or willing to fight. The quarians may be dextros, but they are NOT militristic like the turians. The TURIANS are the ones that would have everyone that can fight fighting. The quarians aren't like that.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

http://social.biowar...ndex/16539390/1

Did you see how in the OP, 5 Geth specific reasons are listed as to why the Geth should be destroyed? It was blatantly obvious where this road would lead.

P.S. - Khelish ask for both sides to chill. Hence he asked for a ceasefire. Not that difficult a concept to grasp.

That's in regards to Vs every other being in the damn galaxy. It's about if the geth have warrented enough to be worth risking every other being in the entire galaxy for.
Did you see THAT?

It was "blatently obvious" to No One, because you invisioned it so that you could make a rant. It was NOT about "geth vs quarians." It was about "Geth vs the fate of the entire galaxy."
So again, NO. The fault was in your own misinterpertation.

And again, like I said, you were the one that broke it by dragging the quarian dispute into this.

[silverexile17s]

Ryzaki wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

remydat wrote...

  I always get confused by you Quarian supporters

Without Quarians, the Geth wouldn't exist.  

And what exactly?

Shep wouldn't be alive without Cerberus. Doesn't mean I'm gonna side with em.

The geth aren't Shepard, I'm afraid. Name me one time the geth put others above themselves. (The geth, NOT Legion.)

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

As a matter of fact I did when I did the destroy ending. I'm well aware you don't care about my choices. It's just my way of "rewarding" the Geth based on your "cold hard math".

To each his/her own.

silverexile17s wrote...

That's in regards to Vs every other being in the damn galaxy. It's about if the geth have warrented enough to be worth risking every other being in the entire galaxy for.
Did you see THAT?

It was "blatently obvious" to No One, because you invisioned it so that you could make a rant. It was NOT about "geth vs quarians." It was about "Geth vs the fate of the entire galaxy."
So again, NO. The fault was in your own misinterpertation.

And again, like I said, you were the one that broke it by dragging the quarian dispute into this.

And I responded that if they deserve death so do the people that provoked them.  You are asking me if they deserve death and my logical response was not any more than anyone else like the Council or Quarians who provoked them.  That is a perfectly valid answer to the question.

Modifié par remydat, 19 avril 2013 - 10:04 .

[remydat]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

@remydat

Oh so every Quarian was in on it where they? Every Quarian was somehow just itching to kill some Geth the moment they became alive? They all got what was going to them? And what do you mean 'rewarded' by being allowed to leave, you do realize that if they hadn't escaped, the Geth would have wiped them out? They didn't try to finish them off because they couldn't comprehend the idea of genocide, not out of mercy or pity.

Who said they were all involved?  When you government wages a war of extermination on your behalf and loses, a lot of people get killed as a result.  If you don't want that to happen then don't let your leaders wage a war of extermination on your behalf.

Couldn't comprehend the idea of genocide is simply machine talk.  Just like Legion couldn't explain to Shep why he was running around in Shep's armor.  The fact is the Geth spared them.  I really don't care the reasons why.  They are irrelevant.  They spared them and have been cleaning Rannoch up for them.  When peace is achieved, they pretty much go right back to serving them.  So despite it all the Geth have some weird connection to their creators.  You can call it what you want but post Peace, the Quarians can't really offer them sh*t but the Geth still go out of their way for them.  That just shows how stupid the Quarians were.  The Geth never wanted to stop serving them.  They only did so because as Legion said, their gods disowned them so they had to find their own purpose.

[Rip504]

Obviously it is a good idea. Geth sympathizers() rejoice. The Geth have died! The Geth are emotionless monsters whom hold no remorse for the crimes they have committed against all Organics.

They have shown a willingness to kill Every Civilized Organic alive to survive. Of course they deserve death.!
:innocent::lol:

[remydat]

Rip504 wrote...

Obviously it is a good idea. Geth sympathizers() rejoice. The Geth have died! The Geth are emotionless monsters whom hold no remorse for the crimes they have committed against all Organics.

They have shown a willingness to kill Every Civilized Organic alive to survive. Of course they deserve death.!
:innocent::lol:

Just like the Organics have shown a willingness to kill every civilized synthetic just for sh*ts and giggles and when their survival was not threatened by those synthetics.  

[Astartes Marine]

Finn the Jakey wrote...
No.
One.
Cares.

Why is it, whenever a Quarian supporter dares to *gasp* defend the Quarians and criticize the Geth, (a synthetic hive-mind who lack any real individuality might I add), you cry racism, but when people in their droves want to wipe out the Quarians, every man woman and child, a real living breathing species, because "Gerrel was mean to meee", "They're stoopid heads" or some other asinine reason, and actually take pleasure in doing so, you don't even bat an eyelid?

While I admire your intent, you have to realise that Wulfie will go on as normal and simply ignore posts like yours so whenever someone says something against the fictional robots they can again post spam tirades. 

As for the original topic, probably not a great idea in the long run, we'd be proving that insufferable holobrat right.

[Rip504]

remydat wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Obviously it is a good idea. Geth sympathizers() rejoice. The Geth have died! The Geth are emotionless monsters whom hold no remorse for the crimes they have committed against all Organics.

They have shown a willingness to kill Every Civilized Organic alive to survive. Of course they deserve death.!
:innocent::lol:

'Comment removed'

A few Organics sure,but who cares. I do not.  I have never seen humanity (or a multitude of other Organics.) wage war against synthetics just for "sh*t and giggles". I mean honestly you are the person who claims the Geth want peace and the Quarians do not. When this was disproven in both ME2 and ME3. The Geth have left nor offered any avenue of peace.  Why bother?

Either way I do not care as the point is the Geth did,and do deserve their fate of death. The only thing better then killing the Geth,would to be to kill them very slowly and enjoy each and every moment as much as possible.

Organics? Does this imply ALL organics? Both factions of the Geth were willing to kill all civilized Organic life. Fact. I do not care why. They were willing to do it once,they may be willing to do it again. Either way their actions are unjustifiable,and they show no remorse nor emotion. Some Organics have shown remorse for their actions.

Still your comment does not disprove what I said,it only backs it. If the conflict is going to exist or potentially exist. I might as well save as many lives as possible by killing the Geth. As they Obviously deserve death.

Modifié par Rip504, 19 avril 2013 - 11:06 .

[Auld Wulf]

Astartes Marine wrote...

While I admire your intent, you have to realise that Wulfie will go on as normal and simply ignore posts like yours so whenever someone says something against the fictional robots they can again post spam tirades. 

Ignoring them and deeming them too immature to bother with are two different things. Case in point: Wulfie, realy?

If you could actually be mature and notice the point I'm making, I might actually then care to respond. We don't exactly have many intellectual giants on the quarian side right now, and you guys just tend to keep proving me right. So carry on carrying on.

It's all just poking fun and character assassination.

I wish I could admire anyone on the quarian side even marginally as much as I do Remydat. He's brilliant. Simply brilliant. Quarian supporters leave a lot to be desired. It's just... not worth my time?

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 19 avril 2013 - 11:13 .

[Phatose]

....Didn't see humanity wage war against synthetics for giggles?

Didn't play Mass Effect 1, or didn't do the Luna Base mission?

[remydat]

Rip504 wrote...

A few Organics sure,but who cares. I do not.  I have never seen humanity (or a multitude of other Organics.) wage war against synthetics just for "sh*t and giggles". I mean honestly you are the person who claims the Geth want peace and the Quarians do not. When this was disproven in both ME2 and ME3. The Geth have left nor offered any avenue of peace.  Why bother?

Either way I do not care as the point is the Geth did,and do deserve their fate of death. The only thing better then killing the Geth,would to be to kill them very slowly and enjoy each and every moment as much as possible.

Organics? Does this imply ALL organics? Both factions of the Geth were willing to kill all civilized Organic life. Fact. I do not care why. They were willing to do it once,they may be willing to do it again. Either way their actions are unjustifiable,and they show no remorse nor emotion. Some Organics have shown remorse for their actions.

Still your comment does not disprove what I said,it only backs it. If the conflict is going to exist or potentially exist. I might as well save as many lives as possible by killing the Geth. As they Obviously deserve death.

I think Phatose addressed the bolded claim.  Also not sure what was disproved in ME2 or ME3.  Can you provide evidence of this?

The conflict in this cycle exists because organics keep attacking harmless synthetics and then cry when those synthetics kill them.  Has the law that AI should not exist been removed yet?  No, well then if organics get killed by synthetics I won't lose sleep over it.  If you want to continue the stupidity that basically led an AI to harvest your a** every 50 thousand years then so be it.

[Astartes Marine]

Auld Wulf wrote...
Ignoring them and deeming them too immature to bother with are two different things. Case in point: Wulfie, realy?

Just a shortening of the name, honestly nothing meant by it.  If you're perturbed by it I'll just use the full one from now on.

Auld Wulf wrote...
If
you could actually be mature and notice the point I'm making, I might
actually then care to respond. We don't exactly have many intellectual
giants on the quarian side right now, and you guys just tend to keep
proving me right. So carry on carrying on.

You're making a point calling people against robots that don't exist, racists.  You actually have a legit point to make or is just that kind of silliness?

You do that any time someone mentions destroying the Geth or the Reapers.  You bring up words that have no right to even be in the same conversation like sociopath and racist as well as even fascism on at least one occasion.  That's just as bad as the people using the word rape to define Synthesis.  I'm no fan of Synthesis myself but good lord that's a blatant misuse of the English language. 
And all of this fuss, all of the name calling over characters that don't exist. 
More than once I've thought you and a few others were completely loony because of it, making such an unnecessarily big deal out of fiction, almost as bad as Star Wars fans.
And please don't lump me in with "you guys".  I've always made peace between the Quarians and their creations because I felt it was the right thing to do. 

Auld Wulf wrote...
I wish
I could admire anyone on the quarian side even marginally as much as
I do Remydat. He's brilliant. Simply brilliant.

Odd, a few times I've found Remydat to sound like a broken record.  I've never really bothered reading his/her points as I'm neither pro-Quarian nor pro-Geth and don't really feel the need to see either side, like I said I made peace and brought both sides together. 

[Rip504]

remydat wrote...

Was that to be taken seriously? If so lmao.

So you can show me Hanaar and Volus killing sentient synthetics for just "sh*t and giggles",no it was not addressed and I did not even read the comment made by Phatose. As you could never prove it was for "sh*t and  giggles" Fail.

How about you prove the Geth want peace,when their last 300 years holds either no contact with organics,or simply the killing of Organics by Geth. ME2 Koris,ME3 Peace,Quarian Geth sympathizers are also shown in ME3 and have existed for the entire 300 years span. As Koris wants peace,and sympathizes with what his people did to the Geth. I can not find a case of the Geth doing something similar. The Geth show no remorse as they have no emotion.

Geth are not harmless. Really? Have you forgotten their existence? So somehow it is not "stupid" to accept the Geth killing all civilized organic life for your own reasons? Really? Yet it is stupid to save the lives of all civilized organics by killing the Geth? My logic ends the potential conflict,as the synthetics no longer exist. The Catalyst is doing it for the potential. What I am saying in NO WAY led to the Reaper harvest. Lmao Fail. No Synthetics and the outlaw creation of synthetics in what way provides a base for Synthetic vs organic conflict when no synthetics exist.?  If anything accepting the conflict based on your reasons does offer a basis for the Reaper harvest. As you are stating the Geth killing all civilized Organic life because they were attacked is justified. Hence the Catalyst is here to stop this from happening,yet you say it is justified and will loose no sleep over it. Well until a Geth comes and slaughters you for the actions of another.

Modifié par Rip504, 20 avril 2013 - 01:53 .

[Phatose]

Rip504 wrote...

remydat wrote...

Was that to be taken seriously? If so lmao.

So you can show me Hanaar and Volus killing sentient synthetics for just "sh*t and giggles",no it was not addressed and I did not even read the comment made by Phatose. As you could never prove it was for "sh*t and  giggles" Fail.

Council Species.  Part of the council government.  Endorsers of their actions, as such.

Possible you didn't get the Citadel DLC.

Possible you didn't check the archives.

Most likely a Tali-mancer who didn't arrange for her to be killed in ME2 after she demonstrated she was an enemy by pulling a gun on your squad.

[Rip504]

Phatose wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

remydat wrote...

Was that to be taken seriously? If so lmao.

So you can show me Hanaar and Volus killing sentient synthetics for just "sh*t and giggles",no it was not addressed and I did not even read the comment made by Phatose. As you could never prove it was for "sh*t and  giggles" Fail.

Council Species.  Part of the council government.  Endorsers of their actions, as such.

Possible you didn't get the Citadel DLC.

Possible you didn't check the archives.

Most likely a Tali-mancer who didn't arrange for her to be killed in ME2 after she demonstrated she was an enemy by pulling a gun on your squad.

Prove they were not out voted. How about the Non Council Organics whom have never attacked Synthetics. Also prove it was for "sh*t and giggles". Or address how is it the "smart" thing to do to allow the destruction of Civilized Organic life to the Hands of the Geth.

Yes you are right Tali never pulled a gun on my squad as far as I can recall. Legion did attempt to kill me. Also if you are stating the the Majority outweigh the Minority,then the Geth deserve death. Also if you are referring to Tali pulling a Gun on Legion. I can make a case it was justified. Geth and Quarians are enemies. How did Legion obtain the information from Tali's omni-tool? He stole it. Legion never had permission to access that intel,yet Legion is in possession of the intel. He stole the intel to send it to the Geth to... Prepare for war,not peace. Stopping Legion while in the act of a crime can potentially stop a massive loss of life. As Tali's father died and the research was lost.

Phatose wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

 

Phatose wrote...

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] Are you for real?

Which part?  The Council races killing  AI for giggles?  Or Tali being a monster who pulled a gun on an ally for refusing to hide her father's evils?

Perhaps your lumping of all individual organics to species and races. The Geth are one,organics are made up of  individuals. Or you intentionally leaving out the Non Council races whom never attacked the Synthetics. Humanity joined the council after these events. In which case humanity did not endorse them. Humanity wants a seat on the council to have a real voice in Council affairs, Implying the Salarians,Turians,and Asari dictate the state of the Council species and laws. Or perhaps your justification of theft and massive slaughter. Or the claim that it is done for "sh*t and giggles" Also if you consider Tali a monster for pulling a gun on her enemy to stop a crime and the potential of a massive war costing millions of lives. Then one would assume you also consider the Geth monsters for killing any Organics they choose(Including a number reaching into the Billions)and all Organics entering their space for 300 years,or cutting off any communication with organics.

Modifié par Rip504, 20 avril 2013 - 02:48 .