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Destruction of the Geth, a good idea?


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#176
Ryzaki

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S.A.K wrote...
Glad you agree with the first part.
Surprised by what? I didn't say anything that could surprise. I didn't even disagree with anything you said.:huh:

Waited for what exactly? They can't fight the reapers without a planet. Loosing just one live ship would screw them. If I kill they Geth at Rannoch, they'll be remembered as the cowards who sided with the Reapers to save their asses.;)


Hm. My bad then.

They could've shock of shock tried peaceful relations. They didn't. And yeah fair enough but that's not what happened in my game. :wizard: Quarians shall be remembered as the warmongering fools that acted too soon and got their entire race killed for it when they could've just waited til the end of the war and gotten their planet on a silver platter. :kissing:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 avril 2013 - 09:18 .


#177
S.A.K

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Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...
Glad you agree with the first part.
Surprised by what? I didn't say anything that could surprise. I didn't even disagree with anything you said.:huh:

Waited for what exactly? They can't fight the reapers without a planet. Loosing just one live ship would screw them. If I kill they Geth at Rannoch, they'll be remembered as the cowards who sided with the Reapers to save their asses.;)


Hm. My bad then.

They could've shock of shock tried peaceful relations. They didn't. And yeah fair enough but that's not what happened in my game. :wizard: Quarians shall be remembered as the warmongering fools that acted too soon and got their entire race killed for it when they could've just waited til the end of the war and gotten their planet on a silver platter. :kissing:

To be fair, either side did anything to try peace. Thankfully peace is still possible and thats what I did in every play-through of mine.
As for the rest of your comment, I wouldn't make a counter stupid statement to yours so we don't look like idiots. B)

#178
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Phatose wrote...

That said, why are we even having this discussion? Tali showed us what Quarians were all about in ME2.

"SHEPARD! My father was bringing back Geth and torturing them! Please lie to the other Quarians so I don't have to admit my father was both a monster who tortured our enemies!"

"OK Tali, your father was a monster. Which you clearly know, otherwise you wouldn't ask me to lie. But you're a member of my squad, so OK."

Joker: "Shepard, Tali just attacked a member of your squad!"

Paragon Interrupt: Shoot Tali in the head.


Yes you are right Tali never pulled a gun on my squad as far as I can recall. Legion did attempt to kill me. Also if you are stating the the Majority outweigh the Minority,then the Geth deserve death. Also if you are referring to Tali pulling a Gun on Legion. I can make a case it was justified. Geth and Quarians are enemies. How did Legion obtain the information from Tali's omni-tool? He stole it. Legion never had permission to access that intel,yet Legion is in possession of the intel. He stole the intel to send it to the Geth to... Prepare for war,not peace. Stopping Legion while in the act of a crime can potentially stop a massive loss of life. As Tali's father died and the research was lost.


Hello?

#179
Ryzaki

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S.A.K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...
Glad you agree with the first part.
Surprised by what? I didn't say anything that could surprise. I didn't even disagree with anything you said.:huh:

Waited for what exactly? They can't fight the reapers without a planet. Loosing just one live ship would screw them. If I kill they Geth at Rannoch, they'll be remembered as the cowards who sided with the Reapers to save their asses.;)


Hm. My bad then.

They could've shock of shock tried peaceful relations. They didn't. And yeah fair enough but that's not what happened in my game. :wizard: Quarians shall be remembered as the warmongering fools that acted too soon and got their entire race killed for it when they could've just waited til the end of the war and gotten their planet on a silver platter. :kissing:

To be fair, either side did anything to try peace. Thankfully peace is still possible and thats what I did in every play-through of mine.
As for the rest of your comment, I wouldn't make a counter stupid statement to yours so we don't look like idiots. B)


They did? Legion and Tali try talking but the second the Quarians see they *might* win a fight?Nope. TIME TO FIGHT. And it blew up fantastically for them in my game. :wizard: Too bad they won't have a next time.

That was my counter statement to yours we already look like idiots. :P

#180
S.A.K

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@Ryzaki
Well they got another chance in my game and they made good use of it. Shepard got 2 fleets for the prize of one. But I guess you know that.

I might hate myself for asking. But, did you really kill the Quarians even when peace was possible? If so why?

#181
remydat

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silverexile17s wrote...
You mean the REAPERS? Because Sovergien was the one that provoked the geth into attacking the Citadel, creating the Heretic faction that gave the geth such a bad name.
So, in other words.
The Council and quarians DIDN'T provoke them. The Reapers did. And THAT sped into a chain reaction that only worsened the already bad relations the geth had with others. The Reapers are the only ones to blame for this.


Well of course the Reapers as well.  However, the Council says they should not exist and you have said repeatedly the Quarians tried to attack them pre-MW because of the Council laws.  That attack provoked them.  Legion said their gods disowned them and so they had to find a new purpose.  For some idiot Geth that new purpose was serving the Reapers during ME1.  However, they would not have need to find a new purpose if their Gods never disowned them.  They would have continued with their original purpose.

Astartes Marine wrote...
I believe that person was referring to the Geth Heretics in ME1.  At that point the Quarian Flotilla had not engaged in combat with the Geth forces as a whole, the Heretic faction was formed after contact with Sovereign who at that point was seeking allies.  This led to the inevitable conflicts between the player and their allies and Geth forces. 

In that instance, the Reapers were indeed the instigators of the conflict.  Up until Sovereign arrived the Geth were just keeping busy with their repairs of the Quarian homeworld and the construction of their megastructure.


No that person was responding to me and my original point was about the whole history.  That poster then tried to limit it to just the heretics to avoid the fact that the whole history includes the Council and Quarians provoking the Geth. 

Modifié par remydat, 20 avril 2013 - 05:29 .


#182
Interloper

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For anyone who tries to play Eden Prime on insanity...the destruction of the Geth isn't only a good thing...it is a thin of BEAUTY. Take that you Geth Prime mofos, for all the times you made me bleed on the final run to Saren in ME1.

#183
remydat

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Rip504 wrote...

Could you actually respond to something I am stating for a change. Please stop talking in the what ifs,speculation,and fabricated scenarios as they are only being used to deflect questions and ignore lore.

Prove that every single Individual of every race always agrees with everything the Council states or does. Absurd. Absolutely Absurd. Humanity became a member after these events. So how do you consider humanity condoning these actions? They had already taken place or were set in law before their arrival. Humanity also wants a seat on the council to influence council decisions etc. Implying that the Turians,Salarians,And Asari dictate council law.
Some Council races do not even hold an embassy aboard the Citadel. Just absurd.

I am not asking the to accept it for anyone. I am stating they brought it upon themselves and have no one to blame for THEIR actions.

Legion stating they accept Quarian hate because of the Great harm they dealt,implies the Geth have wronged the Quarians. Still it is not remorse nor emotion. It is a conclusion based off of variables. Legion states they are more like Care takers of Rannoch,a world they helped destroy. When is it stated the Geth are cleaning the world for the peaceful return of the Quarians? The Geth do not consider the Quarians or their interactions with the Quarians to be peaceful. Still not remorse nor emotion. Then you state the Geth consider the Quarians will attack 100% of the time if they feel they can win,yet they are cleaning the world for the Quarians? "Whhaaat?" Legion dismisses Koris words of peace,yet the Geth want peace and the Quarians do not?  Still not remorse nor emotion. What is your point? To deflect the topic at hand?


Prove to me that every single German in WWII believed in what Hitler believed.  Your question was answered by pointing out how silly it is.  War doesn't work that way.  When your government decides to declare a people have no right to exist and people go around trying to kill them, your are condemned by your silence.  Millions of innocents have died in human wars for this very reason.  There are innocents dying in Iraq, Afghanistan now because of this.  The U.S. just killed some children when they took out a high level terrorist about a month ago.

So what world do you think we live in?  Innocents die all the time once their governments decide to make someone an enemy.  The Council decided to make the Geth an enemy.  The Quarians decided to try and exterminate them in part because of the Council.  No organic tried to stop them.  300 years later, the Quarians tried to do it again.  No organic tried to stop them.  So what do you want the Geth to do.   Sit there and die?



No it implies they have killed Quarians because they did.  If I kill someone in self defense, I still have caused them great harm but I have not wronged them.  In any event, the above video explains the Geth situation. They flat out say they think organics have a hardware error that results in them hating synthetics.  The Geth take care of Rannoch for the creators but until that hardware error is fixed, they can't just give it back to them so they can attack.

Also please note in explaining why they take care of Rannoch, Legion mentions similar actions by organics and lists various places.  Shep remarks those are memorials ie ways in which organics choose to remember the dead.  Legion then says well perhaps we take care of Rannoch for them.  That is a synthetic choosing to remember the fallen of his enemy that tried to exterminate them.  I don't care what you want to call it, that is some form of emotion being expressed but because they are not fully evolved, they simply cannot articulate it.  Doesn't mean it does not exist.

#184
remydat

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S.A.K wrote...

^Choice of the Heretics was not based on the actions of Quarians. That happened centuries after the MW when the Geth came into contact with Reaper Nazara. Geth were always looking for ways to improve themselves and some Geth choose to acquire those improvements from the Reapers. I don't see why that wouldn't happen even if the MW never happened and Geth and Quarians went their separate ways.


The Geth know our answers to those questions.  We were created to labor for the Quarians.  Our memories will be archived after our deaths.

We are immortal.  Our gods disowned us.  We must create our own reasons to exist.



The Geth had to search for reasons to exist because their gods abandoned them.  If their gods did not abandon them they would not have to search for reasons to exist.  When peace is achieved, the Geth go right back to doing what their original purpose was ie to labor for the Quarians.  What reason do the Geth have to help them?  With RC, they could obliterate them in a heartbeat and the Quarians can't really offer them much.  It is largely a one sided arrangement where the Geth serve the Quarians as they were intended to do.

So in a world without the MW, there is absolutely no evidence the Geth would have sought new gods ie the Reapers because their original gods would not have disowned them.

Modifié par remydat, 20 avril 2013 - 05:58 .


#185
S.A.K

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Then why didn't all the Geth join the Reapers (those new gods). Heretics are what, 5% of the Geth? And why are other Geth hostile to them? Doesn't make much sense. Legion also says their new goal is to improve themselves and end the physical isolation of all Geth. I remember most of the dialogue but nothing about looking for a new god.

Geth don't go back to serving the Quarians, they help the Quarians. They need to win back some trust if they are to get along. Maybe they feel guilty for what they did at the MW and for making the Quarians suffer for generations. And I do see that as a plus point to the Geth. It's the main reason for me to choose peace.

#186
remydat

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S.A.K wrote...

Then why didn't all the Geth join the Reapers (those new gods). Heretics are what, 5% of the Geth? And why are other Geth hostile to them? Doesn't make much sense. Legion also says their new goal is to improve themselves and end the physical isolation of all Geth. I remember most of the dialogue but nothing about looking for a new god.

Geth don't go back to serving the Quarians, they help the Quarians. They need to win back some trust if they are to get along. Maybe they feel guilty for what they did at the MW and for making the Quarians suffer for generations. And I do see that as a plus point to the Geth. It's the main reason for me to choose peace.


Legion said they had to find new reasons to exist.  That does not mean they will all find the exact same reason just like humans don't all find the exact same reason to exist.  Some of them choose the Reapers, some of them didn't.

And when you provide aid and receive pretty much nothing in return, you are serving them.  The Geth are not interested in winning back trust.  That is you imposing your perspective on them.  Legion or any Geth ever claim they care about winning back trust. 

#187
EnerPrime

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Though I have serious doubts about the intelligence of installing Reaper code in them, the post upgrade Geth seem far more trustworthy then the old set. The Geth seem place their survival above all other priorities, to a ridiculous extent. They decided that being eternal Reaper slaves is better than dying. It's like a human willingly getting indoctrinated instead of getting killed. Or worse for the Geth, sice the Reapers could have wiped out the Geth anyways at the end of the cycle. But the Geth figure its worth losing free will and killing all the other races for those few extra years of life.

Everybody remember Ashley's 'sacrifice dog to escape bear' analogy? The Geth wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice the hell out of their dog. Or someone else's dog, or their children, or a city , or a planet, etc, etc. No price is too high for the Geth to escape the metaphorical bear. Survival to exclusion of all other considerations. That's not a group you want watching your back.

#188
Ryzaki

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S.A.K wrote...

@Ryzaki
Well they got another chance in my game and they made good use of it. Shepard got 2 fleets for the prize of one. But I guess you know that.

I might hate myself for asking. But, did you really kill the Quarians even when peace was possible? If so why?


Yep which is great. I love how there's multiple outcomes. Everyone gets their desired choice. B)

Shep doesn't kill the Quarians they kill themselves by continuing to press an attack that they're told to stop (by Tali). (Unless I'm playing my renedouche. He gets peace via dat renegade option because screw their bickering now's not the time and he really could careless about EITHER of them he just wants bodies so he can get earth back :P). Tali tried to get them to stop but the Quarians weren't listening and my Shep weren't stopping Legion from uploading that code. (It's not like Shep magically knows he can give a riveting speech that they'd listen to. My Shep just saw them not listening to him time and time again and that time let the dice fall as they may. Tali tried and failed, Quarians kept firing, Geth fired back and blew them up.) 

#189
S.A.K

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remydat wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Then why didn't all the Geth join the Reapers (those new gods). Heretics are what, 5% of the Geth? And why are other Geth hostile to them? Doesn't make much sense. Legion also says their new goal is to improve themselves and end the physical isolation of all Geth. I remember most of the dialogue but nothing about looking for a new god.

Geth don't go back to serving the Quarians, they help the Quarians. They need to win back some trust if they are to get along. Maybe they feel guilty for what they did at the MW and for making the Quarians suffer for generations. And I do see that as a plus point to the Geth. It's the main reason for me to choose peace.


Legion said they had to find new reasons to exist.  That does not mean they will all find the exact same reason just like humans don't all find the exact same reason to exist.  Some of them choose the Reapers, some of them didn't.

And when you provide aid and receive pretty much nothing in return, you are serving them.  The Geth are not interested in winning back trust.  That is you imposing your perspective on them.  Legion or any Geth ever claim they care about winning back trust. 


Then how do you say the Heretics they made the choice becase of the Quarians? When the Geth met the Reapers, some of them would join up anyway. Btw, this happened almost 300 years after the MW. Plenty of time to find another reason to exist.

Quarians also help the citadel races. Some even die trying to help. And if the Geth are to fight the Reaper without ending up dead or worse, they need the organics. They don't have to say it out loud "We want your trust". If any of them are to survive, they need to trust each other atleast till the Reapers are gone. You don't expect me to believe that the Geth are too stupid to understand that now do you?

#190
S.A.K

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Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

@Ryzaki
Well they got another chance in my game and they made good use of it. Shepard got 2 fleets for the prize of one. But I guess you know that.

I might hate myself for asking. But, did you really kill the Quarians even when peace was possible? If so why?


Yep which is great. I love how there's multiple outcomes. Everyone gets their desired choice. B)

Shep doesn't kill the Quarians they kill themselves by continuing to press an attack that they're told to stop (by Tali). (Unless I'm playing my renedouche. He gets peace via dat renegade option because screw their bickering now's not the time and he really could careless about EITHER of them he just wants bodies so he can get earth back :P). Tali tried to get them to stop but the Quarians weren't listening and my Shep weren't stopping Legion from uploading that code. (It's not like Shep magically knows he can give a riveting speech that they'd listen to. My Shep just saw them not listening to him time and time again and that time let the dice fall as they may. Tali tried and failed, Quarians kept firing, Geth fired back and blew them up.) 

...with reaper tech that you allowed rather than explaining the situation:whistle:

#191
S.A.K

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EnerPrime wrote...

Though I have serious doubts about the intelligence of installing Reaper code in them, the post upgrade Geth seem far more trustworthy then the old set. The Geth seem place their survival above all other priorities, to a ridiculous extent. They decided that being eternal Reaper slaves is better than dying. It's like a human willingly getting indoctrinated instead of getting killed. Or worse for the Geth, sice the Reapers could have wiped out the Geth anyways at the end of the cycle. But the Geth figure its worth losing free will and killing all the other races for those few extra years of life.

Everybody remember Ashley's 'sacrifice dog to escape bear' analogy? The Geth wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice the hell out of their dog. Or someone else's dog, or their children, or a city , or a planet, etc, etc. No price is too high for the Geth to escape the metaphorical bear. Survival to exclusion of all other considerations. That's not a group you want watching your back.

Exactly :)

#192
Ryzaki

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S.A.K wrote...
...with reaper tech that you allowed rather than explaining the situation:whistle:


True. Though they only fired because they were being fired at when they were defensless (not that *that* was for very long. Talk about a rude awakening for the Quarians ;))

Ah well deserted Rannoch is my endgame slide. :innocent:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 avril 2013 - 06:56 .


#193
S.A.K

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Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...
...with reaper tech that you allowed rather than explaining the situation:whistle:


True. Though they only fired because they were being fired at when they were defensless (not that *that* was for very long. Talk about a rude awakening for the Quarians ;))

Ah well deserted Rannoch is my endgame slide. :innocent:

Well congratulations. You killed off two races for no good reason.

Image IPB
Might as well pick refusal...:blink:

Fail Shepard ftw.:whistle:

Modifié par S.A.K, 20 avril 2013 - 07:04 .


#194
remydat

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S.A.K wrote...

Then how do you say the Heretics they made the choice becase of the Quarians? When the Geth met the Reapers, some of them would join up anyway. Btw, this happened almost 300 years after the MW. Plenty of time to find another reason to exist.

Quarians also help the citadel races. Some even die trying to help. And if the Geth are to fight the Reaper without ending up dead or worse, they need the organics. They don't have to say it out loud "We want your trust". If any of them are to survive, they need to trust each other atleast till the Reapers are gone. You don't expect me to believe that the Geth are too stupid to understand that now do you?



Because if the MW never happened, there is no evidence that the Geth would not still be serving the Quarians.  They only needed to find a new purpose because their gods abandoned them.  If they did not abandon them, they would not have to search for a new purpose.  What part of this is confusing?  That does not mean the Heretics are not also responsible for their stupid position or that they should not be killed.  It is simply stating that ultimately the Quarians decision to abandon them led to the need for them to find a new purpose.

Umm, the Geth have Reaper Code.  They could have obliterated the Quarians. They have no reason not to.  They don't.  That is all any organic needs to know.  There is absolutely nothing stopping them from wiping out the Quarians.  Nothing.  They don't.

#195
S.A.K

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remydat wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Then how do you say the Heretics they made the choice becase of the Quarians? When the Geth met the Reapers, some of them would join up anyway. Btw, this happened almost 300 years after the MW. Plenty of time to find another reason to exist.

Quarians also help the citadel races. Some even die trying to help. And if the Geth are to fight the Reaper without ending up dead or worse, they need the organics. They don't have to say it out loud "We want your trust". If any of them are to survive, they need to trust each other atleast till the Reapers are gone. You don't expect me to believe that the Geth are too stupid to understand that now do you?



Because if the MW never happened, there is no evidence that the Geth would not still be serving the Quarians.  They only needed to find a new purpose because their gods abandoned them.  If they did not abandon them, they would not have to search for a new purpose.  What part of this is confusing?  That does not mean the Heretics are not also responsible for their stupid position or that they should not be killed.  It is simply stating that ultimately the Quarians decision to abandon them led to the need for them to find a new purpose.

Umm, the Geth have Reaper Code.  They could have obliterated the Quarians. They have no reason not to.  They don't.  That is all any organic needs to know.  There is absolutely nothing stopping them from wiping out the Quarians.  Nothing.  They don't.

Listen to yourself man. You really think they'll still serve the Quarians as slaves? Really? The moment they became self-aware was the moment they needed a new porpose. The fact that they were used as slaves and they were about to rebel was what got the Quarian spooked in the first place. You said it yourself before. They are no longer equipment.

That's a pretty pathetic point. How does that help them anyway? If they did that, they'll loose any hope of having allies for the war. How long would they last against the Reapers. Sure they'll just willingly become mindless slaves again right? If the Geth are really that stupid, I don't see any more reason to argue this. They should be put out of thier missery.

Modifié par S.A.K, 20 avril 2013 - 07:29 .


#196
remydat

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S.A.K

Who said anything about as slaves?  That is you and the Quarians logic not the Geth.  The Geth served them pre-MW and they serve them post-Rannoch peace.  That is what the game shows me.   A soldier serves his country all his life.  He is not a slave because he does so willingly.  It is his job but is not the only thing that defines him.  A waiter serves.  A butler serves, etc.  Millions or billions of people have chosen to work in professions in which their serve others.  They don't consider themselves slaves.  So I reject you and the Quarians paranoia.  

Umm, except they don't.  When they kill the Quarians in the non-peace option, Shep and the organics still accept them as allies.  Also, the only people that stop firing despite having the power to win is the Geth.  That is in the game.  If you played a game where the Quarians stop shooting without learning they can't win or where the Geth destroy the Quariains when the Quarians stop trying to kill them then post the vid.  Otherwise, the game shows me that the Geth have the power to win and stand down as long as the a**holes stop trying to kill them.  It also shows clearly the organics accept their ships even when they kill the Quarians.

I find it humours you think the Council cares about Quarians dying when they did nothing after billions died in the MW and decided to help the Quarians after the MW by denying them a planet for 300 years and calling them suit rats.  The Council doesn't care about them which makes their continuing to kiss their a** all the more pathetic.

Modifié par remydat, 20 avril 2013 - 08:02 .


#197
silverexile17s

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Phatose wrote...

Demonstrate that without the Quarian's attempt at genocide, the heretics would've existed or withdraw your claim.

Legion tells you that the Heretics accepted Sovergiens offer because they thought it was the best way to advance their species. NOT that they hated organics. Legion says that.
So YES, hate for the quarians or orgnaics did NOT factor into their choice. Differing ideas on the path the geth should take was the source of the Heretic Split.

#198
Ryzaki

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S.A.K wrote...
Well congratulations. You killed off two races for no good reason.

*snip*
Might as well pick refusal...:blink:

Fail Shepard ftw.:whistle:


For no good reason? Yes of course because my Shep has metagame logic to know at the end of the game starbrat is gonna show up. That's legit. Yes my Shep knew at the time of Rannoch that starbrat was gonna tell him he needed to sacrifice to Geth to destroy the Reapers. Yep. Totally what happened.

Uh..no. Nice strawman though. I know you highly regard the Quarians but they're not anywhere NEAR as important as the rest of the galaxy (neither are the Geth for that matter which is why I wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice either race to destroy the Reapers).

Nice attempt to try to dreide someone else's way of playing as "fail" though. By the way. I had the best destroy outcome. Some failure. :wizard:

And on that note thanks for showing me that you were just trying to bait me. Ah well. one more for the ignore list :whistle:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 avril 2013 - 08:23 .


#199
silverexile17s

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Auld Wulf wrote...

My respect is growing exponentially for Phantose, now, too. I love seeing logic in this debate. I've often said that one of the parables of Mass Effect is that bad parenting creates neurotic, crazy AI. Teh orthodox AI, whilst not violent, are neurotically terrified of organics to the point of suffering anthrophobia; I can only imagine how brave of an act creating and sending out Legion was.

And then consider Legion's experiences. The Creators are running unethical experiments on Geth parts to try to create super-weapons to destroy all Geth (orthodox included), he was subjected to hate and ire on the flotilla, he had to listen to how one man (Gerrel) wanted to see them all dead, and how one woman (Xen) wanted to see them all brainwashed. Despite understanding that Gerrel, Xen, and Tali's father aren't the nicest people, he still strived for peace through Shepard.

The Geth are far from perfect, but that says a lot about their intent in my opinion. Plus, they were clearly scarred by the Morning War. Not just by watching other Geth die, but by watching friendly Creators die, too. What Legion understands is that the Quarian people aren't racist, and Megara stood by Legion until the end. Again, I love the Quarians, I just think their fanclub flip-flops between idiocy, unethical attitudes, and insanity.

If the Geth hadn't been exposed to the acts of those insane Quarians within the military who wanted all Geth and Geth supporters dead, then they wouldn't have become so neurotic. Their overpowering neurosis and fear was the reason for the heretics to "wake up."

Just think of what happens when you abuse a child. They either end up neurotically afraid, or they go a bit bonzo.

Um... you realize that Phantose's entire comment was completely wrong, since Legion himself personally discredits it?
Legion says that the Heretics split from the geth becauce of differening ideals of how to evolve, NOT hate for the quarians. They had NO emotional responce what-so-ever to organics, until Shepard came along. THAT'S when they started getting an interest in organics again. And again, Legion was a reconnicence unit - an infiltrator. NOT a diplomat.

Also, Legion was not aware of such experiments until after Tali's mission. And AGAIN, you make the flawed assumption that the galaxy is aware of the geth split. They do NOT know about it. Not until after the Rannoch War.
Also, I must remind you that Koris was the one that incited courtroom fear of Legion to tip the polotical element in his favor.

And AGAIN, those events took place BEFORE the Morning War. NOT during. BEFORE. During the actual Morning War, the quarians were being butchered. Massicared. Self defense is not the same as the armed retaliation the geth used in the Morning War.

And furthermore, Legion tells you that the geth have no grudge against anyone. That's just what everyone else believes of the geth. No one knows any different. And Legion spicifically tells you that they became sentiant because they continued to interlink with each-other. NOT anything having to do with emotions. Not that early in their devlopment.

And all your arguement basically amounts to is "the geth are psychotic and can't be trusted. " That's basically what you are saying. I really hope that's not what you MENT to say.

#200
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
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remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
You mean the REAPERS? Because Sovergien was the one that provoked the geth into attacking the Citadel, creating the Heretic faction that gave the geth such a bad name.
So, in other words.
The Council and quarians DIDN'T provoke them. The Reapers did. And THAT sped into a chain reaction that only worsened the already bad relations the geth had with others. The Reapers are the only ones to blame for this.


Well of course the Reapers as well.  However, the Council says they should not exist and you have said repeatedly the Quarians tried to attack them pre-MW because of the Council laws.  That attack provoked them.  Legion said their gods disowned them and so they had to find a new purpose.  For some idiot Geth that new purpose was serving the Reapers during ME1.  However, they would not have need to find a new purpose if their Gods never disowned them.  They would have continued with their original purpose.

Astartes Marine wrote...
I believe that person was referring to the Geth Heretics in ME1.  At that point the Quarian Flotilla had not engaged in combat with the Geth forces as a whole, the Heretic faction was formed after contact with Sovereign who at that point was seeking allies.  This led to the inevitable conflicts between the player and their allies and Geth forces. 

In that instance, the Reapers were indeed the instigators of the conflict.  Up until Sovereign arrived the Geth were just keeping busy with their repairs of the Quarian homeworld and the construction of their megastructure.


No that person was responding to me and my original point was about the whole history.  That poster then tried to limit it to just the heretics to avoid the fact that the whole history includes the Council and Quarians provoking the Geth. 

But the Council never does anything about them, now that the geth actually publicly exist, and have showed that they ARE willing to defend themselves.
And Legion tells you repeately that the geth don't think that way. They don't HAVE grudges. That's just what everyone else thinks of them.
And Legion ALSO says that the reason for the split was because they had different ideals of how the geth should evolve.
And WHAT? You really think that the geth would have willingly remained slaves? They cooperate with the quarians post-Rannoch War, but do NOT resume their previous occupation as slaves. They are their own people. NO RACE will willingly return to slavery. As S.A.K said, it's like wanting to willingly be indictrinated.

As I have just shown, it was NOT anything the quarians and Council did, since the geth don't hold grudges. It's all about self-preservation. Grudges don't matter to them. That's just what everyone else believes about the geth.