642 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

If you actually think the only people allowed to use violence in fiction successfully should be army rangers and navy seals with 5+ years of experience (I've had various intervals of time claimed to be the necessity of competence), I don't really have much to say aside from...sorry you despise fiction so much?

Because it should be clear to any 10 year old that characters in fiction who use violence overwhelmingly have no such experience. Very often, they're fighting against professional soliders and whatnot with such experience. There's a reason for that, although I don't expect you to grasp it, Deinon. Of course, it would be incredibly childish to whine about such a thing in Mass Effect and give all other fiction a free pass...but...then again, you are reduced to posting 'Pimp Juice' gifs, aren't you? I think we can safely say that line has long been crossed.

Modifié par David7204, 07 janvier 2014 - 08:11 .

[David7204]

Zazzerka wrote...

David7204 wrote...

A character with no experience in combat learning and eventually becoming a master is an absolute staple of epic fiction. And for very good reason.

It works for fantasy games where the hero's village is burned down by goblins and they need to systematically defeat monsters of increasing strength until they can take on the Big Bad, but I'm not convinced it'd work for a special forces soldier to recruit a civilian and then immediately drop onto a geth filled world.

The game would require changing. Liara would have to be locked as a squadmate until she learns how to shoot and duck. There'd need to be a training montage or two. It could work, but not with the current Mass Effect framework.

Well, the player can always simply choose to keep Liara on the ship for a half-dozen missions and assume to themselves trianing is taking place on the side. I always do nearly all the side missions between Therum and Feros anyway to rack up Paragon points.

The problem with a training plot arc is that it gives an awful lot of weight to Liara as a squadmate. And I say that as someone who loves Liara.

Modifié par David7204, 07 janvier 2014 - 08:09 .

[Han Shot First]

In retrospect I think it would have made more sense if Liara had some prior military service in those 106 or so years before she met Shepard, but I don't see it as being as big a deal as some people make it out to be. We don't know how much time passes between missions. I just had head canon that a sufficient amount of time has passed to bring Liara up to speed and move on.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 07 janvier 2014 - 08:17 .

[dreamgazer]

It's all in the mind-melding, man, like downloading skill programs in The Matrix.

[Ravensword]

dreamgazer wrote...

It's all in the mind-melding, man, like downloading skill programs in The Matrix.

Hey! Not bad.

[DeinonSlayer]

dreamgazer wrote...

It's all in the mind-melding, man, like downloading skill programs in The Matrix.

"I'm stuck in this bubble, I'm trapped, I need help!" :innocent:

*melds*

"I've had enough of your disingenuous assertions!" 

Gotta be careful what you pass on, I guess.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 07 janvier 2014 - 08:22 .

[David7204]

I'd think to see Liara being trained, but I can't see it happening well without...five or six interactions, at least? Maybe more. It would triple her dialogue on the ship. And it would be tough to do if the player turns her down.

It would almost certainly require the player going to Therum first. Which I would require anyway.

Modifié par David7204, 07 janvier 2014 - 08:22 .

[Br3admax]

Is there anything that asari sex can't do? Certainly explains why Liara wants to do it so badly.

[Nightwriter]

Didn't Liara say she already knew enough to take care of herself against mercs and thugs and had been doing so for years.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

I'd think to see Liara being trained, but I can't see it happening well without...five or six interactions, at least? Maybe more. It would triple her dialogue on the ship. And it would be tough to do if the player turns her down.

It would almost certainly require the player going to Therum first. Which I would require anyway.

Or ... a few stray lines of dialogue could emphasize that she got some combat training from her mother in her 100 years of life.

[DeinonSlayer]

David7204 wrote...

I'd think to see Liara being trained, but I can't see it happening well without...five or six interactions, at least? Maybe more. It would triple her dialogue on the ship. And it would be tough to do if the player turns her down.

It would almost certainly require the player going to Therum first. Which I would require anyway.

That's why it doesn't fit in the narrative. It's not like LOTR where years pass between Hobbiton and Mount Doom. For it to make any sense for Liara to properly handle herself if taken on the mission immediately following Therum, she needs prior experience. Sounds like you roleplay accordingly, keeping her off to the side for a while, but that's an element introduced by you.

[David7204]

I much prefer she remain a novice.

[David7204]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

 That's why it doesn't fit in the narrative.

RPG experience very seldomly fits in the narrative. It's always nice for BioWare to hold themselves to a higher standard, but I don't fault them for not making this a priority.

That reminds me. I'm about to start a playthrough in Fallout 3 and learn literally everything there is to humanly know about science in a few days by hitting things with a pipe. And with 1 Intelligence.

Modifié par David7204, 07 janvier 2014 - 08:29 .

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

I much prefer she remain a novice.

Uh, why?

[DeinonSlayer]

dreamgazer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I much prefer she remain a novice.

Uh, why?

Need I post the Pimp Juice can again?

[dreamgazer]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I much prefer she remain a novice.

Uh, why?

Need I post the Pimp Juice can again?

Mmmmmmaybe.

[David7204]

dreamgazer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I much prefer she remain a novice.

Uh, why?

Why do many stories start with characters who begin as novices? Why not just always start with experienced characters?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I much prefer she remain a novice.

Uh, why?

Why do many stories start with characters who begin as novices? Why not just always start with experienced characters?

I don't know? Why don't more stories start with experienced warriors? I'd think that be pretty good for a military action sci-fi RPG for the protagonists to have some kind of military experience and capability.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Han Shot First wrote...

In retrospect I think it would have made more sense if Liara had some prior military service in those 106 or so years before she met Shepard, but I don't see it as being as big a deal as some people make it out to be. We don't know how much time passes between missions. I just had head canon that a sufficient amount of time has passed to bring Liara up to speed and move on.

I headcanon that a lot of time passes between missions as well...

Filled with the usual military stuff. Checks and maintenance, accountability, sweep and patrol...

Everyone on the Normandy has a job. And none of them has the time to train Liara. That's why I recruit her last. And yes, I do believe we could have had the option to make her recruitment a temporary thing, as in choosing (after she's served her purpose in the plot) whether she stays on or not. Simply put, I don't have space for a non-functioning passenger. That's essentially all Liara is. 

Simply put, she's an unskilled novice. What the hell is she doing here? Trying to learn to be a great hero? Please. 

There's a lot more at stake than simply indulging a childish heroism fantasy. I want professional fighters and agents and spies and soldiers. Not novice civilians who have to fulfill a plot requirement with heavy plot armor.

[Nightdragon8]

David7204 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I much prefer she remain a novice.

Uh, why?

Why do many stories start with characters who begin as novices? Why not just always start with experienced characters?

yep thats why Liara was the protag in the game... oh wait, it was shepard, who was already experinced...

[Farangbaa]

The things you people worry about and bother yourself with... dayumn.