642 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

CynicalShep wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Sovereign (ME1): "Our numbers will darken the skies of every homeworld."

... but it's long since been made clear that narrative-continuity only matters to fans when convenient to them.

Yeah ... about that. Sovereign might have exaggerated a bit.

I never really took that line serious, seemed like one of those dramatic moments

[Iakus]

HYR 2.0 wrote...


"Only reason" - ?

Sovereign (ME1): "Our numbers will darken the skies of every homeworld."

... but it's long since been made clear that narrative-continuity only matters to fans when convenient to them.

It's also clear that Soveriegn's words are only braggadocio when it's convenient too, huh? 

[dreamgazer]

AresKeith wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Sovereign (ME1): "Our numbers will darken the skies of every homeworld."

... but it's long since been made clear that narrative-continuity only matters to fans when convenient to them.

Yeah ... about that. Sovereign might have exaggerated a bit.

I never really took that line serious, seemed like one of those dramatic moments

It did seem dramatic, but it's not the kind of bluster indicating that he's only got 250 of his buddies waiting. 

They've been doing this successfully for a long, long time, after all.

[Iakus]

AresKeith wrote...

I never really took that line serious, seemed like one of those dramatic moments

But you must take it serious!  Reapers exist on a level so far beyond your own you cannot even comprehend it!  They are eternal, they have no beginning or ending, they simply...are!  We are rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh, fumbling  in ignorance, incapable of understanding!  We exist because they allow it, and will end because they demand it!

:P:P

[AlanC9]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Given the only reason we have all these little Reapers is because suddenly one Reaper per cycle (max) isn't enough.  
More Reapers=more Art 

"Only reason" - ?

Sovereign (ME1): "Our numbers will darken the skies of every homeworld."

... but it's long since been made clear that narrative-continuity only matters to fans when convenient to them.

Hey, if iakus wants to pretend that the Leviathan of Dis wasn't originally intended to be a Reaper, let him. It's irrelevant. Even the 700-odd minimum implied by the ME2's Derelict Reaper would be enough to curbstomp the galaxy, or the 200+ people counted in the final clip.. But of course, Bio retconned Reaper strength down for ME3. Not up.

Modifié par AlanC9, 08 janvier 2014 - 05:28 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I know why the reapers couldn't shut down the relays. Because they needed the Keepers to do it, and the protheans messed up the keepers on them.

[AresKeith]

dreamgazer wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Sovereign (ME1): "Our numbers will darken the skies of every homeworld."

... but it's long since been made clear that narrative-continuity only matters to fans when convenient to them.

Yeah ... about that. Sovereign might have exaggerated a bit.

I never really took that line serious, seemed like one of those dramatic moments

It did seem dramatic, but it's not the kind of bluster indicating that he's only got 250 of his buddies waiting. 

They've been doing this successfully for a long, long time, after all.

They've also been doing it differently since ME3

250 maybe too small for them, but 20,000 is also too much

[CynicalShep]

AresKeith wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Sovereign (ME1): "Our numbers will darken the skies of every homeworld."

... but it's long since been made clear that narrative-continuity only matters to fans when convenient to them.

Yeah ... about that. Sovereign might have exaggerated a bit.

I never really took that line serious, seemed like one of those dramatic moments

I never took a lot of the trilogy seriously, honestly speaking

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Hey, if iakus wants to pretend that the Leviathan of Dis wasn't originally intended to be a Reaper, let him. It's irrelevant. Even the 700-odd minimum implied by the ME2's Derelict Reaper would be enough to curbstomp the galaxy. But of course, Bio retconned Reaper strength down for ME3. Not up.

Well, you're right that it's irrelevant.

But I'd really like to know how you figure Reaper strength was retconned down.

[AresKeith]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Hey, if iakus wants to pretend that the Leviathan of Dis wasn't originally intended to be a Reaper, let him. It's irrelevant. Even the 700-odd minimum implied by the ME2's Derelict Reaper would be enough to curbstomp the galaxy. But of course, Bio retconned Reaper strength down for ME3. Not up.

Well, you're right that it's irrelevant.

But I'd really like to know how you figure Reaper strength was retconned down.

I thought Bioware made a statement about that

But if they didn't, it kinda shows that their strength was retconned down

[ImaginaryMatter]

CynicalShep wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Sovereign (ME1): "Our numbers will darken the skies of every homeworld."

... but it's long since been made clear that narrative-continuity only matters to fans when convenient to them.

Yeah ... about that. Sovereign might have exaggerated a bit.

I think Sovereign was a little nervous when speaking to Shepard for the first time so he made up a bunch of stuff.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Hey, if iakus wants to pretend that the Leviathan of Dis wasn't originally intended to be a Reaper, let him. It's irrelevant. Even the 700-odd minimum implied by the ME2's Derelict Reaper would be enough to curbstomp the galaxy. But of course, Bio retconned Reaper strength down for ME3. Not up.

Well, you're right that it's irrelevant.

But I'd really like to know how you figure Reaper strength was retconned down.

How fast do you figure 700 Sovereigns would have crushed the Citadel forces? Hell, how about 200+? 

[ImaginaryMatter]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I know why the reapers couldn't shut down the relays. Because they needed the Keepers to do it, and the protheans messed up the keepers on them.

Sovereign was able to do so during ME1.

Plus, all the questions that surround why the Catalyst couldn't do it.

[Iakus]

A lot slower than twenty thousand I can tell you that. They'd have a much tougher time fighting the whole galaxy at once. And every loss they suffered would be a tangible one. They have to be more cautious and fight smarter, especially with the galaxy unified and able to make use of the relays.

But you didn't answer the question: why do you think they were retconned to be weaker?

[CynicalShep]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Sovereign (ME1): "Our numbers will darken the skies of every homeworld."

... but it's long since been made clear that narrative-continuity only matters to fans when convenient to them.

Yeah ... about that. Sovereign might have exaggerated a bit.

I think Sovereign was a little nervous when speaking to Shepard for the first time so he made up a bunch of stuff.

like a schoolgirl 

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

why do you think they were retconned to be weaker?

To actually make a game about the Reaper invasion and conclude the story?

The scenario is stretching it already, and that's with an indoctrinated Cerberus thrown in as a (decent) distraction.  Why exactly are we trying to make it worse with a conventional victory?

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

A lot slower than twenty thousand I can tell you that. They'd have a much tougher time fighting the whole galaxy at once. And every loss they suffered would be a tangible one. They have to be more cautious and fight smarter, especially with the galaxy unified and able to make use of the relays.

I'm not sure I'm following this. You really think there are supposed to be 20,000 Reapers present in ME3? From the progress of the war I'd doubt there are more than, say, 1000 combat types, with maybe a hundred of those being  dreadnought-class. The Reapers are totally superior to the organics, but it's more  1945 Allies vs. Axis than 1983 U.S. vs. Grenada.

But you didn't answer the question: why do you think they were retconned to be weaker?

You were asking what I think the motivation was for the retcon, rather than whether I think the retcon happened? Simple. They didn't want the war to be so hopeless that the Reapers won it in a week.

Modifié par AlanC9, 08 janvier 2014 - 06:03 .

[AlanC9]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I know why the reapers couldn't shut down the relays. Because they needed the Keepers to do it, and the protheans messed up the keepers on them.

Sovereign was able to do so during ME1.

Plus, all the questions that surround why the Catalyst couldn't do it.

The Catalyst doesn't make things any worse for ME1. It's a colossal intelligence failure on someone's part to never notice the prothean scientists' sabotage. Whether that someone is Sovereign or the Catalyst isn't really important.

As for the rest, yep, there are open questions. It's pretty easy to come up with some fanwankery to fill in the gaps, but let's leave that for another thread.

[CrutchCricket]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I know why the reapers couldn't shut down the relays. Because they needed the Keepers to do it, and the protheans messed up the keepers on them.

Why would you place the only key to your most important piece of technology in the hands of lesser beings, even if they were your slaves?

The keepers were the remote control option. But for the Reapers to not be able to directly interface with their own technology is too dumb to even consider.

And let's not even ask where the holokid was during all this.

[CrutchCricket]

AlanC9 wrote...

The Catalyst doesn't make things any worse for ME1. It's a colossal intelligence failure on someone's part to never notice the prothean scientists' sabotage. Whether that someone is Sovereign or the Catalyst isn't really important.

Eclipsed only by their bigger failure to rectify the situation immediately.

[AlanC9]

CrutchCricket wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The Catalyst doesn't make things any worse for ME1. It's a colossal intelligence failure on someone's part to never notice the prothean scientists' sabotage. Whether that someone is Sovereign or the Catalyst isn't really important.

Eclipsed only by their bigger failure to rectify the situation immediately.

My point is that argument has nothing to do with the Catalyst.

[AlexMBrennan]

And let's not even ask where the holokid was during all this.

Just because you originally created something doesn't mean that you will indefinitely remote-control it; you are basically saying "I would have done things differently, therefore none of the other options are possible"

[Bfler]

The question becomes redundant in the moment you see a movie with two armies in space attacking each other like line infantry.

Modifié par Bfler, 08 janvier 2014 - 07:34 .

[Swan Killer]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

I'm surprised the organics even won this war. If Harbringer and 2 destroyers guarded the Citadel portal the whole time, that would've been over for every organic in the galaxy.

If Harbinger wouldn't have gone off for a joyride after BBQ'ing Shepard, the war would've ended right there.