642 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

An 11 out of 10 conventional victory would absolutely have been possible without significantly changing either the Reapers or the galaxy.

I seriously doubt near as many people would be arguing 'The Reapers are completely unstoppable' if ME 3 have had Sovereign class Reapers consistantly being killed in battles Shepard participates in throughout the story.

Modifié par David7204, 08 janvier 2014 - 08:43 .

[David7204]

I'm very well aware of what was said in dialogue and what appeared in cutscenes.

No, DEM's exist in part of very lazy attitudes like this. You take one look and give up and proclaim since you can't do it, nobody else possibly could as well.

I've never 'decried' conventional victory. I've decried the galaxy building up a bajillion dreadnoughts in ME 2 and steamrolling the Reapers in ME 3, since that would be narratively stupid.

Modifié par David7204, 08 janvier 2014 - 09:05 .

[wolfhowwl]

David7204 wrote...

An 11 out of 10 conventional victory would absolutely have been possible without significantly changing either the Reapers or the galaxy.

I seriously doubt near as many people would be arguing 'The Reapers are completely unstoppable' if ME 3 have had Sovereign class Reapers consistantly being killed in battles Shepard participates in throughout the story.

How would that work? If you're not going to be significantly changing the Reapers or the galaxy, the Reapers will still possess a massive advantage in numbers and technology against a galaxy that has done little to prepare against them.

The incompetence Bioware graced the Reapers with just to make the Crucible plot work already invites disbelief, the Reapers gave away victories on multiple occasions such as Rannoch.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 08 janvier 2014 - 09:18 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

David7204 wrote...

An 11 out of 10 conventional victory would absolutely have been possible without significantly changing either the Reapers or the galaxy.

I seriously doubt near as many people would be arguing 'The Reapers are completely unstoppable' if ME 3 have had Sovereign class Reapers consistantly being killed in battles Shepard participates in throughout the story.

How, pray tell, will such a victory be possible?

[David7204]

The Reapers using other species to do their work for them is a method long established. The Reapers aren't stupid for trusting the geth to handle the quarians and direct their forces elsewhere.

That being said, I did propose an alternate Rannoch ending which involves a dozen-odd capital Reapers reinforcing the geth, and possibly being defeated. Why don't you take a look at it?

[Farangbaa]

I love the ME trilogy.

I would've worshipped it if being defeated was inevitable.

[Farangbaa]

alleyd wrote...

Psychevore wrote...

I love the ME trilogy.

I would've worshipped it if being defeated was inevitable.

I too share the love for the trilogy and for the postive inspiration it can offer and I think that having a total inevitability of defeat was an acceptible endgame for someone who made the "wrong" choices in their game. The Reapers should have been made a challenge and front and centre of the campaign and the endgame should be a difficult or challenging experience.

Bioware did that, the ending is challenging, it requires a gamer to THINK and we all saw the result of how challenging that is for a section of the consumer base.

That would be nice too. But I was thinking that no matter what you do, defeat is inevitable. Good choices and bad choices, all irrelevant. The Reapers are just too strong.

Best possible outcome being that you make the next cycle aware quick and well enough so they might have a chance. Might, but probably not.

[David7204]

It's rare for someone to openly admit they want choices to not matter whatsoever. I'm struggling to see what merit you find in that.

alleyd wrote...

Conventional victory, of any scenario is not included in the lore, nothing supports it as a credible solution and it isn't lazy to agree with the authors and designers, the publishers and all the other people who have accepted this and moved on.

I'm well aware of what the developers intended, but don't particularly see why I should care. If changing the themes would improve the story, I'm all for it. And in this case, my suggestions would improve the story without sacrificing any of the elements people love about Mass Effect. Quite the opposite. It would improve them a great deal.

Modifié par David7204, 08 janvier 2014 - 10:19 .

[Helios969]

I think people are not understanding conventional warfare. Shepard is an unconventional soldier (like a Green Beret, Navy SEAL, or a Delta Force operative.) The Normandy is an unconventional vessel given it's unique stealth abilities. The operations Shepard, his/her team, and the Normandy partake in are all unconventional. BTW, people are always throwing out nukes...those too are unconventional weapons.

With that said, in theory, it should have been possible to seriously challenge the Reapers with unconventional warfare methodology that did not include the crucible. ME lore aside, mount an FTL drive onto a kilometer-sized asteroid and slamming it into a Sovereign class would pretty much do the trick. For that matter moving a couple thousand massive asteroids out in front of the fleet as it enters Sol System to retake Earth would at the very least offered cover and concealment from the Reaper's main gun.

At the very least it would have been super cool if we could have included other elements of warfare into the final battle. I don't think it was writer laziness or time constraints to release the game, I think it was just a lack of understanding of strategy and tactics. But it is what it is, and I still got every penny's worth of entertainment out of the game.

[David7204]

Neither of those ideas would work.

The idea of lining up asteroids to use as cover is, frankly, god awful.

[nos_astra]

Helios969 wrote...

I think people are not understanding conventional warfare. Shepard is an unconventional soldier (like a Green Beret, Navy SEAL, or a Delta Force operative.)

Unconventional: unprofessional, lack of foresight, allergy to strategy and tactics. Some soldier.

Modifié par klarabella, 08 janvier 2014 - 10:34 .

[wolfhowwl]

klarabella wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

I think people are not understanding conventional warfare. Shepard is an unconventional soldier (like a Green Beret, Navy SEAL, or a Delta Force operative.)

Unconventional: unprofessional, lack of foresight, allergy to strategy and tactics. Some soldier.

Well sleeping with people under your command is unprofessional to say the least.

Sleeping with the tech expert with the compromised immune system right before a critical mission is downright stupid.

After reading the "criteria" that many posters used for the Virmire choice I see that Bioware may have accidentally created a great example as to why fraternization is banned in the military.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 08 janvier 2014 - 10:47 .

[David7204]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Sleeping with the tech expert with the compromised immune system right before a critical mission is downright stupid.

The plague on Omega notwithstanding, anyone with a basic understanding of biology should easily realize there's no way a natural infection would manifest in a few hours. So it sounds to me your understanding of disease is 'downright stupid.'

Modifié par David7204, 08 janvier 2014 - 10:48 .

[wolfhowwl]

Oh Shepard knows the mission will only last a few hours?

Does he know that because...

Of the extensive reconnaissance of the collector base?
Their knowledge of what lies beyond the relay?
The team's elaborate planning?

Oh wait they were flying blind.

Maybe Shepard should have held off on deflowering his alien girlfriend after all. Someone who was professional and intelligent would put the mission above their base needs, apparently your Shepard was neither.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 08 janvier 2014 - 10:56 .

[David7204]

Try a few days.

[David7204]

Yes, thank you what basically repeating what I just acknowledged.

It is a synthetic plague, so you can always imagine it's super fast acting or something. Or just ignore it by not taking aliens on that mission. Not ideal, but I imagine it's preferably to having no reactivity.

Modifié par David7204, 08 janvier 2014 - 11:02 .

[David7204]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So it stands to reason that Wolfhowl could possibly be correct? Because let's face it, Mass Effect is not a hard science series. All the stretches this series has taken makes Wolfhowl's concerns perfectly reasonable.

No. It doesn't.