248 réponses à ce sujet

[Original Twigman]

Dala Kaar wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Dala Kaar wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...


The skill ceiling for a juggernaught is so low that its a bit laughable to suggest that someone can't figure out how to play him effectively (and there are people who can't)

Oh wait, I can bold parts of what you say and contextualize it too.

The skill ceiling is different and relies on teamwork, that doesn't make it low, it makes it different.

The skill ceiling is as low as mice nutz

Wow. That's it? Kay, you're not coming off as the type to rationalize much by saying things like that. Now I know for sure, complete lack of imagination on your part.

I'm done, if you don't like juggs, leave the lobby like I'm leaving the thread. Goodbye.

lol, i thought the mice nutz was a rational metaphor to my statement of how low the skill ceiling is for the juggernaught.... definitely imaginative, too. Didn't it paint a good picture

What i really enjoy is the facade of "rationalization" and the "if you don't like it, leave!"

[DaemionMoadrin]

parico wrote...

DaemionMoadrin wrote...


There are a few things the Juggernaut can't do. There are also a few things it can do that no one else is able to. If you work with that instead of applying unrealistic expectations, then having a good Juggernaut on the team is pretty fun. But I guess b*tching and complaining about the kit here is easier than adapting to changed circumstances.

Most of you have been spoiled by playing OP kits for months, you are so used to rushing through the maps that you forgot that there are other ways to play. Effective or not, this is still a game and people play it for fun. It's actually puzzling why people spouting elitist nonsense about Juggernauts are still playing with PUGs. Shouldn't you be in a lobby with likeminded friends instead? 

I guess expecting that people play the difficulty they can handle is an urealistic and elitist expectation then.  The Juggy is enabling them to think they should do so.  Friends arent always on or may have moved on to something else.  I have more respect for the player that trys to play innefectively with a more difficult kit than one who host a lobby with his'her n7 80 juggy expecting me to come in and kill everything for them while they stand ther like an idiot trying to melee everything in sight. 

And that -is- elitist thinking. The "N7 80 Juggy" trying to leech is no better or worse than any other bad player using a GI or whatever dying at the beginning of a wave and hoping you finish it for them. Neither deserves any respect... so why do you have more respect for the guy spending 90% of the time as spectactor (or requiring you to revive him all the time) than for the Juggernaut who's at least trying? 
Both are in way over their head and both need to be told to go back to a lower level until they have more experience and better gear.

Judging the kit based on the actions of the players behind it makes no sense at all.

I am not going to debate wether the Juggernaut is easier or more difficult to use than other kits, I've seen threads calling almost every kit easy mode. It's not the point.

Is there any doubt in this forum that a good player using a Juggernaut would do well and contribute to a team? I bet not.
There is of course the possibility that they would do even better with another kit, but that's another issue entirely and no reason to hate -all- Juggernauts you come across.

[parico]

[quote]DaemionMoadrin wrote...

[I guess expecting that people play the difficulty they can handle is an urealistic and elitist expectation then.  The Juggy is enabling them to think they should do so.  Friends arent always on or may have moved on to something else.  I have more respect for the player that trys to play innefectively with a more difficult kit than one who host a lobby with his'her n7 80 juggy expecting me to come in and kill everything for them while they stand ther like an idiot trying to melee everything in sight. 
[/quote]

And that -is- elitist thinking. The "N7 80 Juggy" trying to leech is no better or worse than any other bad player using a GI or whatever dying at the beginning of a wave and hoping you finish it for them. Neither deserves any respect... so why do you have more respect for the guy spending 90% of the time as spectactor (or requiring you to revive him all the time) than for the Juggernaut who's at least trying? 
Both are in way over their head and both need to be told to go back to a lower level until they have more experience and better gear.

Judging the kit based on the actions of the players behind it makes no sense at all.

I am not going to debate wether the Juggernaut is easier or more difficult to use than other kits, I've seen threads calling almost every kit easy mode. It's not the point.

Is there any doubt in this forum that a good player using a Juggernaut would do well and contribute to a team? I bet not.
There is of course the possibility that they would do even better with another kit, but that's another issue entirely and no reason to hate -all- Juggernauts you come across.
[/quote]

The guy dead is lt least learning what can kill him ie that banshees, phantoms and praetorians are threats to be respected not something you melee and hope someone else is capable of killing it for you.  I do think the kit is bad for the game and is encouraging poor game play amongst the newer players.  This will bite them in the arse later.   I went through my learning curve by spectacting when I started gold and watched how those alive kited and cleared waves alone and eventually was able to do it myself  The player using his cructh juggy isnt learning anything other than that he'll get lucky sometimes and a competent player will land in the lobby to kill everything. 

Modifié par parico, 02 mai 2013 - 08:47 .

[MAELXTROM]

Pugging plat the other day, the other two kept putting kick votes on the 4+ different Juggs cycling through our last slot, seemed appropriate given they were a TGI and AIU.

[Tricky D 92]

Got a full extraction on Platinum earlier with a Jug in the game and we probably wouldn't have extracted without him

[oO Stryfe Oo]

b00g13man wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Why does it matter if someone's playing a Jugg? Most of BSN has done nothing but complain about how terrible PUGs are. We've established that you can't expect anything from them. Well, while they're using this kit, you can at least expect them to survive longer while you murder everything.

I don't see what the problem is.

I don't enjoy being the only one killing things, and I'm pretty sure others don't either. That's the problem.

That's the worst you can expect, which is a lot better than having the odds stacked against you because the rest of your team got synced. Like DaemionMoadrin said, it's the inept players you should be disappointed with; a well played Jug is an asset to any team.

That being said, I can see how two or more of them in a lobby can be a little dull.

Modifié par oO Stryfe Oo, 02 mai 2013 - 08:50 .

[oO Stryfe Oo]

parico wrote...

The guy dead is lt least learning what can kill him ie that banshees, phantoms and praetorians are threats to be respected not something you melee and hope someone else is capable of killing it for you.  I do think the kit is bad for the game and is encouraging poor game play amongst the newer players.  This will bite them in the arse later.   I went through my learning curve by spectacting when I started gold and watched how those alive kited and cleared waves alone and eventually was able to do it myself  The player using his cructh juggy isnt learning anything other than that he'll get lucky sometimes and a competent player will land in the lobby to kill everything. 

What makes you so sure the Juggernaut won't learn what he can and cannot tank, and when it's better to use his gun? Sooner or later, he/she will realize that their melee just isn't cutting it. They'll come to the startling realization that the match depends on them. One of these games, when all their teammates are down, they'll realize that they've got a gun, and they'll be better players for it.

Just as you've learned to play your kits, so too will they learn the ins and outs of their "crutch". In doing that, they'll also learn a lot about the higher difficulties, examining what kits/weapons the highscorers use, what enemies spawn, and what takes down the rest of the team. I mean, can you really say that they won't?

[parico]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

parico wrote...

The guy dead is lt least learning what can kill him ie that banshees, phantoms and praetorians are threats to be respected not something you melee and hope someone else is capable of killing it for you.  I do think the kit is bad for the game and is encouraging poor game play amongst the newer players.  This will bite them in the arse later.   I went through my learning curve by spectacting when I started gold and watched how those alive kited and cleared waves alone and eventually was able to do it myself  The player using his cructh juggy isnt learning anything other than that he'll get lucky sometimes and a competent player will land in the lobby to kill everything. 

What makes you so sure the Juggernaut won't learn what he can and cannot tank, and when it's better to use his gun? Sooner or later, he/she will realize that their melee just isn't cutting it. They'll come to the startling realization that the match depends on them. One of these games, when all their teammates are down, they'll realize that they've got a gun, and they'll be better players for it.

Just as you've learned to play your kits, so too will they learn the ins and outs of their "crutch". In doing that, they'll also learn a lot about the higher difficulties, examining what kits/weapons the highscorers use, what enemies spawn, and what takes down the rest of the team. I mean, can you really say that they won't?

Perhaps they will.  I do know is that having every gold lobby infested with a juggy or 2 and all the platinum pug matches on Rio have made things rather stale.  Makes me ponder what game I should look into buying and moving on.  I was so happy to get dropped into a plat match on condor vs collectors yesterday even though we wiped on wave 9.      

[FateNeverEnds]

Tricky D 92 wrote...

Got a full extraction on Platinum earlier with a Jug in the game and we probably wouldn't have extracted without him

I got a full extraction a couple days ago with a bolus and we probably wouldn't have extracted without him as I was using a kit I'm not comfortable with on a bad u/u setup (Rio/Collectors/Gold) and the guy rez'd me and the rest of the team a lot, coming close 2nd in the board after me. But that doesn't mean I need a volus sticking with the team at all times. Plus, the jugg really trivializes bosses and phantoms (therefore platinum).

No one said they didn't make games easier --when well played-- but some of us enjoy the challenge y'know?

[DaemionMoadrin]

parico wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

parico wrote...

The guy dead is lt least learning what can kill him ie that banshees, phantoms and praetorians are threats to be respected not something you melee and hope someone else is capable of killing it for you.  I do think the kit is bad for the game and is encouraging poor game play amongst the newer players.  This will bite them in the arse later.   I went through my learning curve by spectacting when I started gold and watched how those alive kited and cleared waves alone and eventually was able to do it myself  The player using his cructh juggy isnt learning anything other than that he'll get lucky sometimes and a competent player will land in the lobby to kill everything. 

What makes you so sure the Juggernaut won't learn what he can and cannot tank, and when it's better to use his gun? Sooner or later, he/she will realize that their melee just isn't cutting it. They'll come to the startling realization that the match depends on them. One of these games, when all their teammates are down, they'll realize that they've got a gun, and they'll be better players for it.

Just as you've learned to play your kits, so too will they learn the ins and outs of their "crutch". In doing that, they'll also learn a lot about the higher difficulties, examining what kits/weapons the highscorers use, what enemies spawn, and what takes down the rest of the team. I mean, can you really say that they won't?

Perhaps they will.  I do know is that having every gold lobby infested with a juggy or 2 and all the platinum pug matches on Rio have made things rather stale.  Makes me ponder what game I should look into buying and moving on.  I was so happy to get dropped into a plat match on condor vs collectors yesterday even though we wiped on wave 9.      

Again, you're blaming the existence of the Juggernaut kit for lazy players using it as a crutch or shortcut. If it didn't exist, they'd be using something else instead.
If a low N7/Challenge rating player without consumables (and most likely with bad gear&weapons) joined a Gold lobby, then I don't really care which kit they are using. They are going to be useless no matter what.

Just tell them so. Tell them why you votekick them. Tell them what they are doing wrong.

If I join a lobby with my Juggernaut, you can bet it's lvl20 with proper weapons, gear and consumables equipped. And if you already have a Juggernaut or Volus, then I will either leave or switch to another kit. No need to slow things down. But don't ever think I can't handle Gold+ just because I happen to play Juggernaut at that moment.

[phillip100]

I don't have a problem with them. They can distract sync kill enemies from other teammates.

[parico]

DaemionMoadrin wrote...


Again, you're blaming the existence of the Juggernaut kit for lazy players using it as a crutch or shortcut. If it didn't exist, they'd be using something else instead.
If a low N7/Challenge rating player without consumables (and most likely with bad gear&weapons) joined a Gold lobby, then I don't really care which kit they are using. They are going to be useless no matter what.

Just tell them so. Tell them why you votekick them. Tell them what they are doing wrong.

If I join a lobby with my Juggernaut, you can bet it's lvl20 with proper weapons, gear and consumables equipped. And if you already have a Juggernaut or Volus, then I will either leave or switch to another kit. No need to slow things down. But don't ever think I can't handle Gold+ just because I happen to play Juggernaut at that moment.

l2p something else.....you are missing my point that everyone is using it.   It's making this game stale and boring.  A stale and boring game dies period.   

Modifié par parico, 02 mai 2013 - 09:30 .

[DaemionMoadrin]

parico wrote...

DaemionMoadrin wrote...


Again, you're blaming the existence of the Juggernaut kit for lazy players using it as a crutch or shortcut. If it didn't exist, they'd be using something else instead.
If a low N7/Challenge rating player without consumables (and most likely with bad gear&weapons) joined a Gold lobby, then I don't really care which kit they are using. They are going to be useless no matter what.

Just tell them so. Tell them why you votekick them. Tell them what they are doing wrong.

If I join a lobby with my Juggernaut, you can bet it's lvl20 with proper weapons, gear and consumables equipped. And if you already have a Juggernaut or Volus, then I will either leave or switch to another kit. No need to slow things down. But don't ever think I can't handle Gold+ just because I happen to play Juggernaut at that moment.

l2p something else.....you are missing my point that everyone is using it.   It's making this game stale and boring.  A stale and boring game dies period.   

*sigh* Seriously? L2P? That's all you got left? How disappointing.
I see a Juggernaut every 4th or 5th match. It is far from "everyone" using it.

[parico]

DaemionMoadrin wrote... 

*sigh* Seriously? L2P? That's all you got left? How disappointing.
I see a Juggernaut every 4th or 5th match. It is far from "everyone" using it.

Modifié par parico, 02 mai 2013 - 10:13 .

[RealKobeBean]

1. They make games at least 5 minutes longer. Even more.

2. They are slow and can't rez mates across the map.

3. They do not allow me to face-to-face phantoms and banshees. Attention ******

4. They keep placing their dem shields right in front of me.

5. They make n00bs think they are ready for gold/platinum.

Add your own and

Discuss.

/end of rant

Awesome rant. Also, buff the Spitfire! And...Merry Christmas.

[AW_FC_1986]

Some many necros today...

[RealKobeBean]

Some many necros today...

Okay, no prob!

[Olivia Wilde]

necro aside, just played a match with two siege pulse spamming juggies

 

i was playing reegar aiu and they outscored me, but also were most annoying

[Excella Gionne]

Puggys make me cry, because they survive longer than the average life span of a pug.

[7twozero]

Spamming build is the only good way to play it in my opinion.

[ClydeInTheShell]

Still amazed that this thread and threads like it are always written by players who play so little.

 

On topic: I support the Juggies. 

 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Yeah, this is one of those threads I was happy to leave dead.

[TheBunz]

Love thy neighbor

[J. Peterman]

I don't mind having one as long as they aren't speced for melee, and use equipment. I've only run into a handful of well played juggs, but most of them manage to stay alive, which is all you can ask for sometimes.

Seems like a really smart poster. I agree with him.