248 réponses à ce sujet

[FateNeverEnds]

Just fyi, I do know how good it can be. Can. But pugs just use it as a choking tank because it's, ehmm, tanky, so they jump into gold/plat with it when they wouldn't do it with any other kit. That's the problem, are we clear?

Modifié par FateNeverEnds, 02 mai 2013 - 07:14 .

[Original Twigman]

parico wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

parico wrote...

This kit is becoming a worse plague than destroyers were in there hayday. Haven't had a gold or plat match in the last 4 days without 1 of these in the lobby. Half the time there's 2 of the stupid things. All they do is melee everything and score their pathetic 40-50k. I may need to go on another extended break from ME3 since pugs are just so stupid anymore.

I can honestly say, I've never scored 50K using a Jug. hate the player, not the kit.

I can also say, Ive been in 19 minute PUGs in my Jug. Ive been in 20 minute PUGs with 4 of em.

PUGs can suck in anything they play for pete's sake. I can say Im sick and tired of whuppin crappy TGI's. Or crappy GI's. Or crappy Adepts.....blah blah blah

L2P scrubs

The kit is enabling players to play on a difficulty they dont belong in so its half the problem. 

i'd agree, that is half the problem

the other half, imo, would be that those same players don't learn all that much from using him considering the huge safety net he provides.

You don't have to learn boss mechanics as a jugg, because he can't be sync killed
You don't have to learn how to engage phantoms because you can just melee them
You don't have to learn how to avoid being rear ended by a brute because you won't get staggered/killed
You don't have to learn how to dodge a banshee warp ball because you won't be able to anyway
the list goes on....

and on....




and on....



and on.....








on and.....

[Original Twigman]

GallowsPole wrote...

Sad sad sad that people don't know the power of the almighty Juggy.

probably because he isn't all that powerful....

Thats the point of a FOOs strategy

[Striker93175]

I hate it when I see a sole juggy who was too friggin impatient to wait and starts the game… I load in mid wave 1 or 2 as his sole support. Happened 8 games in a row last night and I finally pluged in my mic and said ‘hey buddy this is why you wait, im waiting to objective wave not killing a thing and praying we get pizza because you are slow and that pizza is mine, and this mission is going to suffer an epic fail.”

Others came in, and I left... but god it irritates me to no end having to go a full game's (or 3) worth of time jumping from game to game to game simply looking for a LOBBY.

Call me crazy, but I like to see what the other people I’m playing with are using, weapons, etc… maybe TRY to attempt some form of team play seeing if the people are going tech/biotic/weapons and/or if they are using consumables at all.

Though I do find it funny loading in one wave 1 with the dead lone wolf... spinning in circles over their dead body, then quitting know that mission scrubbed.

Modifié par Striker93175, 02 mai 2013 - 07:30 .

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Why does it matter if someone's playing a Jugg? Most of BSN has done nothing but complain about how terrible PUGs are. We've established that you can't expect anything from them. Well, while they're using this kit, you can at least expect them to survive longer while you murder everything.

I don't see what the problem is.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Striker93175 wrote...

I hate it when I see a sole juggy who was too friggin impatient to wait and starts the game… I load in mid wave 1 or 2 as his sole support. Happened 8 games in a row last night and I finally pluged in my mic and said ‘hey buddy this is why you wait, im waiting to objective wave not killing a thing and praying we get pizza because you are slow and that pizza is mine, and this mission is going to suffer an epic fail.”

Others came in, and I left... but god it irritates me to no end having to go a full game's (or 3) worth of time jumping from game to game to game simply looking for a LOBBY.

Call me crazy, but I like to see what the other people I’m playing with are using, weapons, etc… maybe TRY to attempt some form of team play seeing if the people are going tech/biotic/weapons and/or if they are using consumables at all.

Though I do find it funny loading in one wave 1 with the dead lone wolf... spinning in circles over their dead body, then quitting know that mission scrubbed.

I'll take "Things Terrible People Say" for 500, Alex.

[Dalakaar]

Original Stikman wrote...

parico wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

parico wrote...

This
kit is becoming a worse plague than destroyers were in there hayday.
Haven't had a gold or plat match in the last 4 days without 1 of these
in the lobby. Half the time there's 2 of the stupid things. All they do
is melee everything and score their pathetic 40-50k. I may need to go on
another extended break from ME3 since pugs are just so stupid anymore.

I can honestly say, I've never scored 50K using a Jug. hate the player, not the kit.

I can also say, Ive been in 19 minute PUGs in my Jug. Ive been in 20 minute PUGs with 4 of em.

PUGs
can suck in anything they play for pete's sake. I can say Im sick and
tired of whuppin crappy TGI's. Or crappy GI's. Or crappy Adepts.....blah
blah blah

L2P scrubs

The kit is enabling players to play on a difficulty they dont belong in so its half the problem. 

i'd agree, that is half the problem

the
other half, imo, would be that those same players don't learn all that
much from using him considering the huge safety net he provides.

You don't have to learn boss mechanics as a jugg, because he can't be sync killed
You don't have to learn how to engage phantoms because you can just melee them
You don't have to learn how to avoid being rear ended by a brute because you won't get staggered/killed
You don't have to learn how to dodge a banshee warp ball because you won't be able to anyway
the list goes on....

and on....




and on....



and on.....








on and.....

Original Stikman wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Sad sad sad that people don't know the power of the almighty Juggy.

probably because he isn't all that powerful....

Thats the point of a FOOs strategy

Your entire argument is invalidated by a player like myself who plays a juggernaut who already knows all those things.

You lack imagination in your ability to perceive how a juggernaut could be played effectively and thus assume it cannot. Your lack, not someone elses.

[parico]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Why does it matter if someone's playing a Jugg? Most of BSN has done nothing but complain about how terrible PUGs are. We've established that you can't expect anything from them. Well, while they're using this kit, you can at least expect them to survive longer while you murder everything.

I don't see what the problem is.

Most arent even competent enough to meet that expectation.  If every lobby I land in means I have to kill everything I may as well play alone.  I guess the real issue is the game's dying a slow painful death. 

[Original Twigman]

Dala Kaar wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

parico wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

parico wrote...

This
kit is becoming a worse plague than destroyers were in there hayday.
Haven't had a gold or plat match in the last 4 days without 1 of these
in the lobby. Half the time there's 2 of the stupid things. All they do
is melee everything and score their pathetic 40-50k. I may need to go on
another extended break from ME3 since pugs are just so stupid anymore.

I can honestly say, I've never scored 50K using a Jug. hate the player, not the kit.

I can also say, Ive been in 19 minute PUGs in my Jug. Ive been in 20 minute PUGs with 4 of em.

PUGs
can suck in anything they play for pete's sake. I can say Im sick and
tired of whuppin crappy TGI's. Or crappy GI's. Or crappy Adepts.....blah
blah blah

L2P scrubs

The kit is enabling players to play on a difficulty they dont belong in so its half the problem. 

i'd agree, that is half the problem

the
other half, imo, would be that those same players don't learn all that
much from using him considering the huge safety net he provides.

You don't have to learn boss mechanics as a jugg, because he can't be sync killed
You don't have to learn how to engage phantoms because you can just melee them
You don't have to learn how to avoid being rear ended by a brute because you won't get staggered/killed
You don't have to learn how to dodge a banshee warp ball because you won't be able to anyway
the list goes on....

and on....




and on....



and on.....








on and.....

Original Stikman wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Sad sad sad that people don't know the power of the almighty Juggy.

probably because he isn't all that powerful....

Thats the point of a FOOs strategy

Your entire argument is invalidated by a player like myself who plays a juggernaut who already knows all those things.

You lack imagination in your ability to perceive how a juggernaut could be played effectively and thus assume it cannot. Your lack, not someone elses.

i think you lack reading comprehension, because i never said anything about playing the kit effectively... there is effective and then there is powerful... two different things.

The skill ceiling for a juggernaught is so low that its a bit laughable to suggest that someone can't figure out how to play him effectively (and there are people who can't)

[Dalakaar]

Original Stikman wrote...


The skill ceiling for a juggernaught is so low that its a bit laughable to suggest that someone can't figure out how to play him effectively (and there are people who can't)

Oh wait, I can bold parts of what you say and contextualize it too.

The skill ceiling is different and relies on teamwork, that doesn't make it low, it makes it different.

[GallowsPole]

[quote]Original Stikman wrote...

[quote]parico wrote...

[quote]GallowsPole wrote...

[quote]parico wrote...

This kit is becoming a worse plague than destroyers were in there hayday. Haven't had a gold or plat match in the last 4 days without 1 of these in the lobby. Half the time there's 2 of the stupid things. All they do is melee everything and score their pathetic 40-50k. I may need to go on another extended break from ME3 since pugs are just so stupid anymore. [/quote]

I can honestly say, I've never scored 50K using a Jug. hate the player, not the kit.

I can also say, Ive been in 19 minute PUGs in my Jug. Ive been in 20 minute PUGs with 4 of em.

PUGs can suck in anything they play for pete's sake. I can say Im sick and tired of whuppin crappy TGI's. Or crappy GI's. Or crappy Adepts.....blah blah blah

L2P scrubs [/quote]


The kit is enabling players to play on a difficulty they dont belong in so its half the problem. 
[/quote]

i'd agree, that is half the problem

the other half, imo, would be that those same players don't learn all that much from using him considering the huge safety net he provides.

You don't have to learn boss mechanics as a jugg, because he can't be sync killed - The only true statement in this post.

You don't have to learn how to engage phantoms because you can just melee them - Then get killed by the other 3 when your doing a dumb move like that. Or for that matter, meleeing everything while your team gets killed. The same as if you have blinders on and concentrate on killing a boss and ignoring the mooks

You don't have to learn how to avoid being rear ended by a brute because you won't get staggered/killed - Same goes for my AJ  build, GE build, and most of my other kits when it comes to getting killed by a Brute. And I guess you never played the Jug, cause you get staggered like everything else.

You don't have to learn how to dodge a banshee warp ball because you won't be able to anyway - Any one of my kits can withstand a Banshee ball
.
the list goes on....

quote]

So eventually people will learn how to play it and not melee everything, or they wont. Same as any other kit learning to play it.

Modifié par GallowsPole, 02 mai 2013 - 07:54 .

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Why does it matter if someone's playing a Jugg? Most of BSN has done nothing but complain about how terrible PUGs are. We've established that you can't expect anything from them. Well, while they're using this kit, you can at least expect them to survive longer while you murder everything.

I don't see what the problem is.

I don't enjoy being the only one killing things, and I'm pretty sure others don't either. That's the problem.

[Original Twigman]

Dala Kaar wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...


The skill ceiling for a juggernaught is so low that its a bit laughable to suggest that someone can't figure out how to play him effectively (and there are people who can't)

Oh wait, I can bold parts of what you say and contextualize it too.

The skill ceiling is different and relies on teamwork, that doesn't make it low, it makes it different.

The skill ceiling is as low as mice nutz

[DaemionMoadrin]

parico wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Why does it matter if someone's playing a Jugg? Most of BSN has done nothing but complain about how terrible PUGs are. We've established that you can't expect anything from them. Well, while they're using this kit, you can at least expect them to survive longer while you murder everything.

I don't see what the problem is.

Most arent even competent enough to meet that expectation.  If every lobby I land in means I have to kill everything I may as well play alone.  I guess the real issue is the game's dying a slow painful death. 

I still don't see how that is the Juggernaut's fault.

Oh noes, a Juggernaut... now the game sucks. Yeah well... it is -not- the kit you should complain about, it's the inept players. A well played Juggernaut is an asset to almost any team. Period.

Do I like being stuck in a game with bad players? Certaintly not. But I don't really care with which kit they are being bad. I have seen every single kit on both ends of the spectrum. More often than not I saw the bad side, but that's PUGs for you.

A good player will manage to contribute to the team no matter what they use. A bad player can drag down a team with any kit, too.

The Juggernaut is a well balanced kit that offers a novel play style compared to the others. If you prefer to rush spawns, juggle a dozen grenades and put out so much damage that the rest of the team isn't really needed, then you do not get to complain about their low score. Rather, you should think about how OP kits affect team play.

After reading this entire thread twice I found only one halfway valid reason against the Juggernaut: If people simply don't like playing as one.
That's perfectly okay... but no reason to hate other players who use it.

There are a few things the Juggernaut can't do. There are also a few things it can do that no one else is able to. If you work with that instead of applying unrealistic expectations, then having a good Juggernaut on the team is pretty fun. But I guess b*tching and complaining about the kit here is easier than adapting to changed circumstances.

Most of you have been spoiled by playing OP kits for months, you are so used to rushing through the maps that you forgot that there are other ways to play. Effective or not, this is still a game and people play it for fun. It's actually puzzling why people spouting elitist nonsense about Juggernauts are still playing with PUGs. Shouldn't you be in a lobby with likeminded friends instead? 

[ryoldschool]

Original Stikman wrote...
The skill ceiling for a juggernaught is so low that its a bit laughable to suggest that someone can't figure out how to play him effectively (and there are people who can't)

quote of the day 

[billy the squid]

Dala Kaar wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...


The skill ceiling for a juggernaught is so low that its a bit laughable to suggest that someone can't figure out how to play him effectively (and there are people who can't)

Oh wait, I can bold parts of what you say and contextualize it too.

The skill ceiling is different and relies on teamwork, that doesn't make it low, it makes it different.

What? No it doesn't. There is no skill ceilling or bar with the Juggernaut, it's left on the ground. And some people still manage to trip over and faceplant. 

People wanting to use a Jugger, is fine, people wantng to use a jugger in every single game they play, because they think it'll save them on higher difficulties is bad. Especially when you get them with no equipment and below lvl 20. but hey "it's okay because he's tough" I cringe when I hear that over the mic.

So if you want to use the juggernaut that's all fine, but don't be under any illusion that the skill level to pull off a juggernaut effectively is anything but on the floor.

Modifié par billy the squid, 02 mai 2013 - 08:03 .

[GallowsPole]

Its like talking to a brick in this place sometimes. Most think only DPS wins. That's the problem with the game. Complaining about rng store. Why? Cause we need the big guns and the OP kits....complain about PUGs...why? Cause they don't kill things fast enough for them....


Oy.

[Dalakaar]

DaemionMoadrin wrote...

parico wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Why does it matter if someone's playing a Jugg? Most of BSN has done nothing but complain about how terrible PUGs are. We've established that you can't expect anything from them. Well, while they're using this kit, you can at least expect them to survive longer while you murder everything.

I don't see what the problem is.

Most arent even competent enough to meet that expectation.  If every lobby I land in means I have to kill everything I may as well play alone.  I guess the real issue is the game's dying a slow painful death. 

I still don't see how that is the Juggernaut's fault.

Oh noes, a Juggernaut... now the game sucks. Yeah well... it is -not- the kit you should complain about, it's the inept players. A well played Juggernaut is an asset to almost any team. Period.

Do I like being stuck in a game with bad players? Certaintly not. But I don't really care with which kit they are being bad. I have seen every single kit on both ends of the spectrum. More often than not I saw the bad side, but that's PUGs for you.

A good player will manage to contribute to the team no matter what they use. A bad player can drag down a team with any kit, too.

The Juggernaut is a well balanced kit that offers a novel play style compared to the others. If you prefer to rush spawns, juggle a dozen grenades and put out so much damage that the rest of the team isn't really needed, then you do not get to complain about their low score. Rather, you should think about how OP kits affect team play.

After reading this entire thread twice I found only one halfway valid reason against the Juggernaut: If people simply don't like playing as one.
That's perfectly okay... but no reason to hate other players who use it.

There are a few things the Juggernaut can't do. There are also a few things it can do that no one else is able to. If you work with that instead of applying unrealistic expectations, then having a good Juggernaut on the team is pretty fun. But I guess b*tching and complaining about the kit here is easier than adapting to changed circumstances.

Most of you have been spoiled by playing OP kits for months, you are so used to rushing through the maps that you forgot that there are other ways to play. Effective or not, this is still a game and people play it for fun. It's actually puzzling why people spouting elitist nonsense about Juggernauts are still playing with PUGs. Shouldn't you be in a lobby with likeminded friends instead? 

QFT

"A well played Juggernaut is an asset to almost any team. Period."

/agree

[GallowsPole]

billy the squid wrote...

Dala Kaar wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...


The skill ceiling for a juggernaught is so low that its a bit laughable to suggest that someone can't figure out how to play him effectively (and there are people who can't)

Oh wait, I can bold parts of what you say and contextualize it too.

The skill ceiling is different and relies on teamwork, that doesn't make it low, it makes it different.

What? No it doesn't. There is no skill ceilling or bar with the Juggernaut, it's left on the ground. And some people still manage to trip over and faceplant. 

People wanting to use a Jugger, is fine, people wantng to use a jugger in every single game they play, because they think it'll save them on higher difficulties is bad. Especially when you get them with no equipment and below lvl 20. but hey "it's okay because he's tough" I cringe when I hear that over the mic.

So if you want to use the juggernaut that's all fine, but don't be under any illusion that the skill level to pull off a juggernaut effectively is anything but on the floor.

Like a TGI, GethSol......ummmm......Kroguard.......GE.....

[Dalakaar]

Original Stikman wrote...

Dala Kaar wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...


The skill ceiling for a juggernaught is so low that its a bit laughable to suggest that someone can't figure out how to play him effectively (and there are people who can't)

Oh wait, I can bold parts of what you say and contextualize it too.

The skill ceiling is different and relies on teamwork, that doesn't make it low, it makes it different.

The skill ceiling is as low as mice nutz

Wow. That's it? Kay, you're not coming off as the type to rationalize much by saying things like that. Now I know for sure, complete lack of imagination on your part.

I'm done, if you don't like juggs, leave the lobby like I'm leaving the thread. Goodbye.

[FateNeverEnds]

Dala Kaar wrote...

I'm done, if you don't like juggs, leave the lobby like I'm leaving the thread. Goodbye.

Noooo! Please stay! I'll get you cupcakes 

[Oni Dark Clown]

I like seeing Juggs in my Plat matches The Bigger the BETTER!
I never understood the Hate for good Juggs. From A's to DD's Juggs for all
They are there to be played with, and to let roam free. and people wonder why there aren't more Female gamers.
So I say, Stop the Mistreatment of Fine Juggs. if you play with them, They will come.
I Wash my hands of this weirdness.

[billy the squid]

GallowsPole wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Dala Kaar wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...


The skill ceiling for a juggernaught is so low that its a bit laughable to suggest that someone can't figure out how to play him effectively (and there are people who can't)

Oh wait, I can bold parts of what you say and contextualize it too.

The skill ceiling is different and relies on teamwork, that doesn't make it low, it makes it different.

What? No it doesn't. There is no skill ceilling or bar with the Juggernaut, it's left on the ground. And some people still manage to trip over and faceplant. 

People wanting to use a Jugger, is fine, people wantng to use a jugger in every single game they play, because they think it'll save them on higher difficulties is bad. Especially when you get them with no equipment and below lvl 20. but hey "it's okay because he's tough" I cringe when I hear that over the mic.

So if you want to use the juggernaut that's all fine, but don't be under any illusion that the skill level to pull off a juggernaut effectively is anything but on the floor.

Like a TGI, GethSol......ummmm......Kroguard.......GE.....

I could rattle off a whole host of various kits which are phenomenally easy to play, and those would certainly be among them. As I said, I don't mind people using them. But I don't think anyone is under the impression that the jugger, stim pack slamming TGI, lol flame all things trooper (which in my experience I found horribly boring) or a Kroguard carrying a Reeger are difficult to play. 

Jugger is the worst of the bunch, it gives a false sense of security. Wait until you run into a Platinum lobby with some one using it at lvl 1 and is convinced it'll be fine. I think I facepalmed so hard I broke my hand.

[parico]

DaemionMoadrin wrote...


There are a few things the Juggernaut can't do. There are also a few things it can do that no one else is able to. If you work with that instead of applying unrealistic expectations, then having a good Juggernaut on the team is pretty fun. But I guess b*tching and complaining about the kit here is easier than adapting to changed circumstances.

Most of you have been spoiled by playing OP kits for months, you are so used to rushing through the maps that you forgot that there are other ways to play. Effective or not, this is still a game and people play it for fun. It's actually puzzling why people spouting elitist nonsense about Juggernauts are still playing with PUGs. Shouldn't you be in a lobby with likeminded friends instead? 

I guess expecting that people play the difficulty they can handle is an urealistic and elitist expectation then.  The Juggy is enabling them to think they should do so.  Friends arent always on or may have moved on to something else.  I have more respect for the player that trys to play innefectively with a more difficult kit than one who host a lobby with his'her n7 80 juggy expecting me to come in and kill everything for them while they stand ther like an idiot trying to melee everything in sight. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

billy the squid wrote...

I could rattle off a whole host of various kits which are phenomenally easy to play, and those would certainly be among them. As I said, I don't mind people using them. But I don't think anyone is under the impression that the jugger, stim pack slamming TGI, lol flame all things trooper (which in my experience I found horribly boring) or a Kroguard carrying a Reeger are difficult to play. 

Jugger is the worst of the bunch, it gives a false sense of security. Wait until you run into a Platinum lobby with some one using it at lvl 1 and is convinced it'll be fine. I think I facepalmed so hard I broke my hand.

This is all correct and true... but it misses the point. This thread condemns Juggernauts entirely. As if the kit was at fault for stupid players. That's pretty much the issue for me... I played almost every single kit on Gold, I know what I am doing. I can play at any range, I can be both aggressive and defensive.

How dare anyone look down on me for playing Juggernaut. To me it is not a crutch. To me it is no the entry into a higher level. I play it because it is fun. I play it because it is different from the other kits. And I play it well.

All this nonsense about Juggernauts being bad distracts from the truth: Bad players are bad. And that's it.