273 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth_Shizz]

Hollorous wrote...

On topic, QW, everything you have discussed, is relationship development. Not his actual character.

What exactly is your idea of a "deep" character? Zevran seems multi-layered enough to me...I think you're just confusing his heavy use of innuendo with being shallow. Based on that logic, wouldn't Sten and Morrigan also be considered shallow? 

*Edit - QW seemed to make the same point as I typed this

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 16 janvier 2010 - 05:53 .

[addiction21]

Hollorous wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

I suspect qw12 likes to slam his/her head against walls.

I will take that insult seriously when its from someone not with a signature that implies the mental age of a 15 year old.

On topic, QW, everything you have discussed, is relationship development. Not his actual character.

Your just jealous because you dont have one.

But if you really want to know. Your rebuttals have been nothing but assumptions, generalzations, exaggerations, and opnion presented as fact.

Modifié par addiction21, 16 janvier 2010 - 05:56 .

[qw12po09]

Ethan009 wrote...

qw12po09 wrote...

Yeah. Compared to the other characters, Zevran is amazingly laid back. And Oghren too, you're right! Since I think Oghren is too amazingly permanently drunk to really care.

If he considers your final goal extremely worthy and swore to stay at your side when you spared his life. He's an assassin who was raised by ****s, and I think living lifestyle he did, no matter how many kittens you kill, he's still better off helping you stop the blight than he would be if he was on his own. xD

Yeah I'm just getting sick of people using other character's crisis moment as a means to slam the characters "loyalty." 9 times out of 10 the PC betrays them first! <_<

Yup. D: The only crisis moment that I really felt offended by, would be Wynnes. Just because she wasn't even there when you commited the vile act of vileness and therefore you should at least have a chance to lie to her. ;p All-knowing self righteous old biddy, lololol.

[qw12po09]

Hollorous wrote...

qw12po09 wrote...

Hollorous wrote...
On topic, QW, everything you have discussed, is relationship development. Not his actual character.

Then by your reasoning:

-snip-

That is not my reasoning, and using strawmans doesn't help you prove a thing.

Actually, I've already proved everything I needed to. You are the one who is failing to produce a convincing argument with actual facts, and not opinions based off of first impressions and conclusions drawn too early in the character's development.

Until you can, I consider Zevran's honor as a well developed charater and intriguing romance, defended. He is more than worth the effort it takes to draw him out of his shell, either as a friend, or as romance companion, and therefore should hold appeal to everyone who is old enough to play and understand the game.

Ethan009 wrote...
I actually liked Wynne at first. Then I played less of a so nice that
it gives you cavities character and she made me want to kick her in the
face. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Lulzy
enough though even my mass murdering megolomanic human noble (and man
is he evil) was romancing Zev and best friends with Ali (through lies
and manipulation of course (yay for a puppet king!). He also feels
elves exist merely for his own pleasure and well...let's just leave it
at he's EVIL. Period there is no alternate character interpretation
with that HN. He let Vaughn go knowing what he did because heck they
were only elves! Wanted to pimp smack Shianna when she got smart with
him and yeah...he's just...vile. Yet oddly enough my absolute fav. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Loool. I suffered from the same, Wynne and my dalish elf goodie-goodie got along great. But as soon as I started my bloodmage playthrough, she was stick in the mud who was thoroughly against me and my ...twisted views. xD

Evil characters are the funnest to play. I'll openly admit that my bloodmage/**** playthrough was much more fun than my dalish. Seeing characters rage at you and their more-than-disgruntled responses makes it amazing. But it is dissapointing when some of your companions flat out leave you, and I tried to persuade them out of it whenever possible. It's more entertaining to have them around sulking and hating you then not there at all. xD

Modifié par qw12po09, 16 janvier 2010 - 06:18 .

[Seronx The Cursed]

I stuck it in his pooper >.<



Manly voice "ooooohhhhhh yyyyeeeaaaahhhh"

[qw12po09]

Seronx The Cursed wrote...

I stuck it in his pooper >.

Manly voice "ooooohhhhhh yyyyeeeaaaahhhh"

Could be worse.
:< I was an elf, so he stuck it in mine.

[Darth_Shizz]

Seronx The Cursed wrote...

I stuck it in his pooper >.

Manly voice "ooooohhhhhh yyyyeeeaaaahhhh"

 

[qw12po09]

Ethan009 wrote...
Yeah I did one playthrough ( I don't think I have the heart for another I love my Ali to much ) where he absolutely LOATHED my character and I didn't get rid of him at his crisis moment either. Nope I just did everything to make him suffer as much as possible and he didn't even get to die at the end .

Though I think I just straight up got rid of Zev on that playthrough wasn't worth the metagaming to let him live. That character was pretty much "you attack me, you die. No ifs ands or buts." Man I was lonely by the end of that game yet my PC was all .

Do the solo playthrough: Kill EVERYONE that you can, and if you can't kill them, drive them off. (This leaves you with.....Alistair. Lol.) Leave Alistair in the camp hating you. Defeat blight by yourself.

For extra points, do it on nightmare difficulty.

@_@ A task I have yet to try, but it would be amazing to be THAT much of an jerkface and still beat the game.

@Hollorous
You said you dislike Zevran because he is a shallow character based entirely off and around sex, and lacks any other driving factors in his life. I proved by quoting in game dialouge and imparting events in the game that you obviously did not encounter, that such is wrong. Without romancing him or doing anything homosexual, you can show that he is indeed a very deep character, who is driven and loyal.

You brought up many false claims: Zevran abandons you when other characters do not. Almost every other character in the game will leave you flat up, even if you are at 100 approval with them, because of their "crisis moments." You claimed that Zevran requires too much pampering to get to know, when in fact, he is one of the easiest characters in the game to get to 100 approval.

If you dislike Zevran because he is immoral, because he is an assassin who does not particularily value human life, then those could be considered reasons for not liking his character.

Simply saying that he is a badly designed and shallow character, and is unaffected by the game's progress, insults the effort that bioware put into him, and insults the people who actually took the effort to get to play his character through and appreciate what he offers to the game.

Modifié par qw12po09, 16 janvier 2010 - 06:34 .

[qw12po09]

Ethan009 wrote...
Hm...I'm not doing that on nightmare. I can barely get by on normal . Hm...I might do it on normal some day. But...I'll probably end up being female and romancing Ali just so she can torment him with her evilness while sleeping with her. MUWAHAHAHAHA!

I'm not sure if a solo playthrough is actually possible on nightmare, just because of all the CC in the game. But an Arcane Warrior stacked with mres and a carefully thought out skill set might be able to handle it. Or a rogue with a lot of traps and bombs/poisons. Would be very, very tough though. xD Discussion for a different topic though. ;p

I'm off to start an arcane warrior on nightmare mode, though. For...related reasons. xD

[Darth_Shizz]

[quote]Hollorous wrote...

Please tell me how you provide facts in an opinion based debate.
[/quote]

Quite easily. Here:

Zevran discusses far more than "just sex"; love, politics, history. He changes and grows as you spend time with him (much like any other character). He speaks of his mother. He speaks of his upbringing. He speaks of his life as an assassin. 

Now, all of these are facts. These are all aspects of a person's character that make them, yes, you've guessed it...more than just one dimensional. You can find his character lacking, and very one dimensional. But then again, that would be short-sighted based on evidence provided within the game, no? Opinion or not.

[quote]
All in this thread I've been saying people are entitled to their own opinion. The arrogance that came from you was astounding to come and claim that anybody that did not agree with what you though about Zev.[/quote]

I'll say it again. Not once did anyone sully a person's opinion of Zev based on them not liking him for a fair reason. However, they did call them immature for retarded statements such as "I killed the ******" and "No...I....like....women", etc. 

And hey. Before you play the opinion card again. No-one really gives a crap about anyone else's sexuality here (at least I don't). Stating that they essentially didn't like zevran because he was bisexual and creeped them out was rather pointless, and did indeed appear to be an overly awkward and defensive thing to say.

[/quote]

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 16 janvier 2010 - 06:44 .

[addiction21]

You might think you have scored but the goal post will soon be moved or just taken down entirely.

[Darth_Shizz]

addiction21 wrote...

You might think you have scored but the goal post will soon be moved or just taken down entirely.

I'll move YOUR goal-posts.

Ohhhh YYYeeeAAAAhhHHHHHHH

[addiction21]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

You might think you have scored but the goal post will soon be moved or just taken down entirely.

I'll move YOUR goal-posts.

Ohhhh YYYeeeAAAAhhHHHHHHH

Bow chicka wow wow

[Darth_Shizz]

Hollorous wrote...
Badly designed =! One dimensional. For all intents and purposes he could have been designed like this on purpose. A lot of games have one dimensional characters.

Except this isn't really that sort of game. At least not in terms of pivotal characters.

So far you have proved absolutely nothing......you just gave insight on Zev. Sleezy is still Sleezy, even if you learn about his past. You seem to be confusing learning about his history as a "deep" character. An amateur mistake. People who have complicated history are often assume as deep. He is about as deep as a dry puddle.

What? It proves that he can exhibit a wide range of emotions perhaps? That he has a past, and can actually interact beyond his sexual safety zone? Perhaps it also tells us WHY he acts the way he does? I don't quite see how you assume that people are "confusing" anything here. Seriously, you need to return those arguments to whichever Narnian Rental Shop you got them from 

[qw12po09]

You say "pamper". In reality, it is "You get his approval above 60." That is the only requirement for keeping him in your party and maintaining his loyalty, as he doesn't feel the need to impede his personal preferences on how you live your life. What do you do to make him turn on you? You totally ignore him. If all he is doing is standing next to your camp fire, then why wouldn't he want to return to a life where he was happy? It's just an insult to your PC's personality that he's happier with a band of assassins that all hate him then he is with you.

If you discredit all character development, and simply stay with first impressions they make in the first five minutes of the game, as you are continuing to, then yes. I suppose Zevran is "sleezy" and remains one dimensional. And so is every other character in the game, as I have already commented on and you replied with your whole "That's not my reasoning."

And yet, it continues to be your reasoning. I'm being trolled here, I can tell.

If you dislike Zevran because he suffers from lack of morals and has probably kicked a few kittens in his life, then say so. Don't try to justify it by saying that he never changes and lacks any personality beyond that.

If someone's homophobia or prudeness prevents them from liking a character, than I believe the problem lies more on their end, than with the characters. My argument isn't that hetrosexual men should romance Zevran because he's amg amazing. My argument is that he is a well developed character, and by no means shallow.

If someone's over-compensating hetrosexuality is what is preventing them from seeing that, then that's something I never considered, and am not prepared to argue about. To each his own, enjoy your homophobia ect.

Modifié par qw12po09, 16 janvier 2010 - 07:18 .

[Darth_Shizz]

Ethan009 wrote...

I have to agree with Hollorous at the whole stating that you don't like someone because of their sexual orientation is a valid reason. Might not be one that I or someone else agrees with but it is valid. Just like not liking Leliana because she's religious, or liking Wynne because she's old. They're valid reasons no matter how bias/ridiculous they seem to other people. (Heck I hate Morrigan because she's a ***** who pretends to be badass when well she's not.)

I've not disputed that. However, I did make a point of calling out the overtly distasteful comments such as "I killed the ******".
Though apparently, this makes me some sort of White Knight