273 réponses à ce sujet

[qw12po09]

If you leave him in front of a fire to rot, and don't talk to him or give enough of a crap to get his approval past 50, then tell me, just how are you being loyal to him?

Zevran joins your party to save himself for the time being and nothing more. He changes to a man who is willing to do whatever it takes to see an honorable goal through to the end. (And he does, see ending: Helping you rebuild the wardens.) He becomes viciously loyal, even killing an old lover to defend you. (See dialouge options through Talisen's encounter.) Whereas before, he was only loyal to those who whoever happened to be convenient at the time. Despite the fact that he was raised never to love anyone, he becomes very affectionate, to the point of proposing to the PC. (See Romance.) And probably one of the more obvious changes, he becomes monogamous over his affections for the PC. (See ending: ignores offers for sex and never loves again should the PC die.)

Those are the ones that stand out to me. What do you expect? For him to become a knight in shining armor, walking grandmothers across the street and saving kittens from trees? That would be an insult to his "character," and so completely unrealistic to the way he is built up it would destroy all my love for him.

Thankfully, there are no such changes with the other characters either. If you deny Zevran's character development and the influence it has on him and the game, then I do not see how any other character would morph from one-dimensional as well. And then we return to my beautiful summary of all the characters in the game.

I'm tired of your trolling. It is your personal opinion that Zevran is one dimensional, from a playthrough where you obviously do much with his character. You know nothing of him, and do not wish to know anything more of him, yet you continue to act as though you are correct in saying that he is a one-dimensional character. You don't like him because he's morally ambigous and never gave him a chance, probably something to do with his bisexuality. We get it.

It is no flaw in his character, simply a flaw in your view on things. Your definition of "deep" would turn all of Dragon Age's characters into one-dimensional bores, and is therefore a joke.

Modifié par qw12po09, 16 janvier 2010 - 07:50 .

[castaftw]

Found him pretty useless, given that the AI can't auto flank for you he is too bothersome to have in the party and I didn't find his dialogue that funny, he had a couple of funny remarks, but mostly in the party banter, but his dialogue just gets incredibly tiresome to listen to.
Since I always had him stand in camp and treated him like dirt, now I just kill him outright instead of adding him to the party, saves me the trouble of hearing about his fetishes, bloodlust and conquests.

Ethan009 wrote...

Anyways happier subjects Planescape: Torment worth the buy?

Friend is going to sell it to me for like 5 bucks I just want to know if it can run on a widescreen laptop.

It is a great game, but haven't installed it on my laptop yet, though I don't see why not, I ran BG1+BG2 on it.
I warn you though that Planescape: Torment is more of a book than a game, if you don't like to read all the dialogue you will not find the game very interesting, I liked the game but only played it twice, whereas I played the BG saga an uncountable number of times.

Modifié par castaftw, 16 janvier 2010 - 08:04 .

[Darth_Shizz]

qw12po09 wrote...

If you leave him in front of a fire to rot, and don't talk to him or give enough of a crap to get his approval past 50, then tell me, just how are you being loyal to him?

Zevran joins your party to save himself for the time being and nothing more. He changes to a man who is willing to do whatever it takes to see an honorable goal through to the end. (And he does, see ending: Helping you rebuild the wardens.) He becomes viciously loyal, even killing an old lover to defend you. (See dialouge options through Talisen's encounter.) Whereas before, he was only loyal to those who whoever happened to be convenient at the time. Despite the fact that he was raised never to love anyone, he becomes very affectionate, to the point of proposing to the PC. (See Romance.) And probably one of the more obvious changes, he becomes monogamous over his affections for the PC. (See ending: ignores offers for sex and never loves again should the PC die.)

Those are the ones that stand out to me. What do you expect? For him to become a knight in shining armor, walking grandmothers across the street and saving kittens from trees? That would be an insult to his "character," and so completely unrealistic to the way he is built up it would destroy all my love for him.

Thankfully, there are no such changes with the other characters either. If you deny Zevran's character development and the influence it has on him and the game, then I do not see how any other character would morph from one-dimensional as well. And then we return to my beautiful summary of all the characters in the game.

So god damned full of spoilers, yet so true  (too tired to argue it right now, so I'm glad you're taking the reigns at least...spoilers aside ;p)

Ethan009 wrote...

Anyways happier subjects Planescape: Torment worth the buy? 

Friend is going to sell it to me for like 5 bucks I just want to know if it can run on a widescreen laptop.

I've heard nothing but good things about it, though I've yet to experience it myself $5 sounds incredibly fair though. 

As for being able to run it, I'd imagine vista is gonna be finicky with it (as vista tends to be with older titles ;p), this is assuming you're using vista. Other than that, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. At the very worst, you may have to troubleshoot some to get it running 100% reliably 

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 16 janvier 2010 - 07:53 .

[Darth_Shizz]

Ethan009 wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...


I've heard nothing but good things about it, though I've yet to experience it myself $5 sounds incredibly fair though. 

As for being able to run it, I'd imagine vista is gonna be finicky with it (as vista tends to be with older titles ;p), this is assuming you're using vista. Other than that, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. At the very worst, you may have to troubleshoot some to get it running 100% reliably 

I just know Vista is going to screw me over.

Why Microsoft? WHY?!?

If you DO encounter problems...

WHEN you encounter problems...I suggest fiddling with the .ini, reverting to old graphics drivers, turning off gfx acceleration, pouring water on your gfx card, removing your RAM and inserting it into the rectum of a homeless person, removing your eyes, removing your tongue, selling all your possessions, sending all your money to microsoft, promising them you'll be a good boy, jumping off a bridge.

Hope that helps.

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 16 janvier 2010 - 08:18 .

[Fates end]

As a straight male I found him highly amusing. Though I was depressed with his continued dislike for my drawing breath

[Heavensrun]

I think Zev's awesome and hilarious. Some of the biggest laughs in the game for me came from listening to him talk to the other characters in my party. ;p



Him, and Sten. Sten is comedy -gold-.



I liked the romance. It'd be nice to see more bi characters that -didn't- fall into the stereotype of the promiscuous bisexual, but he never struck me as token or shallow.

[Darth_Shizz]

Heavensrun wrote...

I liked the romance. It'd be nice to see more bi characters that -didn't- fall into the stereotype of the promiscuous bisexual, but he never struck me as token or shallow.

I think that's what I worry about the most when I hear that bisexual characters are being added to games. More often than not, I worry it's merely being done to appease those that want "equality in games". In this case however, as you've said, neither Leliana nor Zevran feel token. It's actually incredibly fitting to their characters, to the point I couldn't imagine them any other way 

[Heavensrun]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

Heavensrun wrote...

I liked the romance. It'd be nice to see more bi characters that -didn't- fall into the stereotype of the promiscuous bisexual, but he never struck me as token or shallow.

I think that's what I worry about the most when I hear that bisexual characters are being added to games. More often than not, I worry it's merely being done to appease those that want "equality in games". In this case however, as you've said, neither Leliana nor Zevran feel token. It's actually incredibly fitting to their characters, to the point I couldn't imagine them any other way 

Also, leliana offers a nice counterweight to Zev's promiscuity, re: my point about the bisexual stereotype.  As if Zevran is there to say "Look, some bisexuals are promiscuous" and Leliana is there to say "But not all of us!".

(It -would- be kindof nice to see an actual -gay- character of either gender in a BW game.)

[StuartMarshall]

It's funny, I'm gay and didn't like him too much, I found him a bit exaggerated and eccentric. There were some cool features about him though, such as the ruthless streak that is hard to find with companions in DA:O (and I favour darker characters).

[Sresla]

I can (sort of) understand people who say that they feel betrayed when/if he attacks them again after receiving his oath of loyalty. But I have to wonder why you might expect anything different. If he attacks you a second time, his approval rate is VERY low. My math might be off, but I'm fairly certain that from gift giving alone, his approval will be sufficient to have him not turn on you (I believe it needs to be 33 or better [wiki info]). If I put myself in Zevran's shoes, if I had a bunch of people pointing swords at me and I knew my life depended on what I was about to say, you'd better believe that I'd be giving them any oath I could think of that might cause them to spare my life. That doesn't automatically mean I'm going to keep my promise, just because I said it. I'm going to be thinking of a way to get out of THAT situation too, unless there's a compelling reason (such as, you know, liking the person you made the vow to) for me not to. If you choose to, say, antagonize him, well - why would he want to stick around in a situation that wasn't any sort of improvement? It's like getting a new job offer, taking it, and finding out that the hours are worse, the pay is less and there is no health care coverage. Excuse me while I start sending out resumes again.

Too, I guess I'm not seeing the correlation between change and character development. Leliana is "better" because she shows remorse about what she did as a bard? Very few of the NPCs the Warden interacts with change at all - Morrigan is still a Witch of the Wilds, Sten is still a warrior of the Qun. Wynne is still a mage of the Circle. The PC is still a Grey Warden. And Zevran is, when all is said and done, still an assassin. Just because they don't change doesn't mean they're not interesting characters to get to know. One person's multi-layered Leliana is another person's religious nutjob that might leave them wondering, as Alistair so kindly points out, "Aren't we already full up on crazy?"

Edit: I am obviously a huge Zevran fan (<3x1,000,000) but I understand that everyone has their favorites. I have a friend who likes winding me up by telling me he's got a save of the point where Zevran attacks you the first time and he starts out playing every day by killing him again. It's like arguing cake versus pie or pancakes versus waffles versus french toast. I doubt anything I could say would make an impact on personal preferences. Just don't act like your choice is better than mine (because it isn't), and we'll get along fine.

Modifié par Sresla, 16 janvier 2010 - 10:35 .

[josh42426]

StuartMarshall wrote...

It's funny, I'm gay and didn't like him too much, I found him a bit exaggerated and eccentric. There were some cool features about him though, such as the ruthless streak that is hard to find with companions in DA:O (and I favour darker characters).

Yes if only there were more darker characters in not just bioware games but films too. I hope bioware never sells out and makes the mainstream ideal romantic interest who is a sweet girl next door archtype

Modifié par josh42426, 16 janvier 2010 - 10:24 .

[Dervla]

Well the first time I heard his party banter he was propositioning Leliana, which I thought was hilarious. As a gay male I don't find him that attractive (I prefer blokes like Alistair) but I would have him as a friend for sure as he's fun to have around to see what he will say next,

[Nassegris]

You have to look at where the characters are coming from.

An oath of loyalty means nothing to someone who has been bought and sold, someone who has never had a choice in who to serve and someone who has learned to care for nobody but themselves, because if they don’t, no one else will. There’s a mask of sleaziness on Zevran when you meet him, and additionally, beyond that, he is not a very nice person – I don’t think I would be, either, having lived the life he has. He swears to be loyal to someone but he doesn’t really believe in the oath. It means very little to him at that point. He’s lying. To save his skin, or to perhaps have a second chance at killing you later on – or to find some other benefit in following along, most importantly protecting himself from the Crows by tagging along with someone they can’t beat.

So, there’s that. He doesn’t even know what ‘loyalty’ means at that point. If you actually believe him when he takes the oath, you’re precisely as dumb as he’s hoping you are. Setting yourself up for betrayal further down the road. If you never scratch beyond that veneer, well, suit yourself.

Thing is though, this isn’t set in stone. It’s how it starts out, but if you get to know him, if you talk to him, if you show him what being loyal is, what being a friend is, or even in love (not being a ‘lover’, only, as Zev quite obviously knows all about that already). When Zevran is finally TRULY loyal to you, and the oath he made so lightly and without caring actually means something to him, it seems far more significant to me than more easily won friends and loves in this game. To have him stand at my side by the end of the game, well, it makes me pretty damn happy, and I don’t really care if it’s because he’s the best friend of my character or the lover, it’s just great to have made such a difference to him.

Does he change the mask he wears? No, maybe not, maybe he’s still a little sleazy, maybe he’s flirty, maybe he is easy, but underneath that, he’s a truly good friend and loyal in that way only someone you have actually shown what friendship is can be. It’s not just that you ‘get to know him better’ and see more about who he is. It’s that you change him. You teach him to trust, when he’s never trusted before.

In contrast, to me, Leliana gave me nothing. I am a bisexual woman myself and I found her much too easy to win over. Maybe it takes a while to get her in bed, but the slightest smile and she’s in love which makes me feel like she could just as well fall for Alistair or Zevran or Sten or Morrigan or the Dog for all I know, just the slightest wiggle of the finger and she’s yours. I’ve played through her romance to the end to see if there was anything there that I found appealing but there was not. I appreciate her as my character’s friend, at times, but even then it’s occasionally stretching my patience. In contrast, Morrigan is fascinating as a partner and Alistair is wonderful, but Leliana? Too much sugar by far. I guess she's supposed to be the 'Alistair' of this game, where Morrigan is the 'Zevran', but Alistair seemed so much more fascinating to me. See? Tastes differ.

Phew, anyway, at the end of the day – I can’t see how someone could possibly call Zevran shallower than any of the other characters. I guess they don’t ‘get’ him, the same way that I don’t get Leliana, at all, but I don’t strut around claiming she’s poorly written, silly, or shallow just because she’s not my kind of girl. All the characters have personas we’ve seen elsewhere, it’s not like we’re talking ground-breaking or Shakespearian with any of them. Just because we like one or the other better doesn’t make it any less so.

Over and out.

Modifié par Nassegris, 16 janvier 2010 - 10:43 .

[Tau22]

Zevran is a funny dude, that's for sure.

Also, his voice is strangely calming. Anyone else notice that?

[Asceiron]

I find him very funny, along with the dwarf you get a quite funny group

[.Raven.rpg]

Another epic thread serious discussion



http://i169.photobuc...ctures_pc_6.jpg

Modifié par .Raven.rpg, 16 janvier 2010 - 11:38 .

[Darth_Shizz]

.Raven.rpg wrote...

Another epic thread serious discussion



http://i169.photobuc...ctures_pc_6.jpg

Haz i mised thing m8s??

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 16 janvier 2010 - 12:29 .

[Looper128]

I liked zev but he got so sad when I dident flirt back to him =(