273 réponses à ce sujet

[Creature 1]

Ethan009 wrote...
I'm not killing him, abusing him, or making him do anything he doesn't want to do. Just because I don't feel like talking to him (and frankly some of my PCs had more important things to do then play psychologist with an assassin.)

I'm sure, playing psychologist to Alistair's insecurities takes up all of one's free time.   

I mean dude has his freedom, a protector, just because I don't want to be his friend doesn't mean he should stab me in the back.

If you don't bother to talk to him at all, dude has no way to know that you won't get tired of him and kick him out of camp tomorrow, or maybe just kill him yourself.  Provided he can trust you, your deal is great.  But he doesn't know if he can trust you or not. 

[Creature 1]

Ethan009 wrote...

>_> I hate when people use the Loghain incident to say Zev is better than Alistair. Loghain was Ali's crisis moment. Its not like you fight the people who inslaved Zev and then go "By the way join us!" Oh NO.

God I'm so sick of that argument.

It's only a crisis because Alistair's a **** with Stockholm syndrome.   

You can work with the Crows and Zevran doesn't object.  I'm sure he'd be displeased if you managed to conscript a Crow master, but that would be more because he wouldn't trust them, and he'd still stick around to fight the Archdemon.  Because he said he would.  Meanwhile, Alistair will be off getting drunk in a ditch. 

[mousestalker]

Isn't this a no-spoiler forum?

[Creature 1]

Ethan009 wrote...
Yeah playing psychologist to Ali really did take all my free time. But Ali actually has far more utlity to most of my PCs than Zevran ever will.

You must not be speccing Zevran right.  He's my second-highest dps unit, after my PC.  Alistair's utility is to stand there and get beat on, and I'm finding if I spec Oghren right he serves that purpose pretty well too. 

And apparently my PC should have realized they couldn't trust him. So from now on unless I plan on romancing him. I'm sliting his little elven throat.

Your PC is not that bright if you thought you could recruit an assassin and then not have to keep an eye on them and get to know them before telling if they were trustworthy. 

Too bad I couldn't torture him though. It would have been nice having torture options and using them as an arrogant human noble male. (Hm...time for another white hair pretty boy run! )

Are you trying to annoy me?  It fails to work.  Torturing him would be a fairly pointless exercise unless they could link it with unlocking a specialization like Reaver or Blood Mage.  And if you did, everyone in the group except Dog and Sten should leave you. 

I wonder what happens if you send him away? I hope he doesn't show up later my paladins have standards as to how many times someone's allowed to attempt to kill them.

Wait, you have paladins that want to torture people?  But I guess that's pretty consistent.  

[Creature 1]

Ethan009 wrote...
Reinforcing my doormat argument. >_> Regardless this is a circular argument. I'm not going to start thinking Ali's a douchebag for ditching you for recruiting Loghain just like you're not going to start thinking Zevran's a liar that deserves to have his heart ripped out for betraying you for not getting his approval high enough. >_>

To the contrary, I certainly would rip his heart out.  But I've never had that problem because my PCs are smart enough to know that they should check out people who join the group in such circumstances and make sure they can be trusted.  Ends out Zevran can, and he's never betrayed me.  

Though yeah: Zev really should have gotten a crisis moment like everyone else though I can see why the didn't give him one. Figuring out just what would be valid and how not to make it seem forced (which the failed at badly with Alistair) would have been some serious work.

I'm not sure what it would have been.  The only thing I can think of would be turning him over to the Crows, but that's the kind of crisis you don't survive.  He has a crisis moment when Taliesin arrives, but the PCs actions at that moment do not matter much. 

[KentGoldings]

I think the idea of having a bi-sexual character is well intentioned. However, the Zevran character himself gives in to too many gay stereotypes. That is, Zev is not very masculine. It would have been much more astonishing if Loghain were the gay one. This is a huge problem with the portrayal of gay characters in the media. They're happy to have a gay character. But, the homosexuality is a source of humor or the character himself is effeminate. Which is the case of Zevran. In contrast, a character like Captain Jack Harkness in "Torchwood" is unambiguously bi-sexual. Yet, sacrifices none of his masculinity.

[Kenjara]

As a straight male I find him a very entertaining character to have in the party. He has some very funny lines, whether they are gay references or not. The best thing I have heard so far is his conversation with morrigan after you join her in the tent. Also I want him to teach me to be an assassin so I need to keep him happy.

[Rogue-Element]

Zevran is hilarious probably the funniest characters in DA:O.

[Darth_Shizz]

KentGoldings wrote...

I think the idea of having a bi-sexual character is well intentioned. However, the Zevran character himself gives in to too many gay stereotypes. That is, Zev is not very masculine. It would have been much more astonishing if Loghain were the gay one. This is a huge problem with the portrayal of gay characters in the media. They're happy to have a gay character. But, the homosexuality is a source of humor or the character himself is effeminate. Which is the case of Zevran. In contrast, a character like Captain Jack Harkness in "Torchwood" is unambiguously bi-sexual. Yet, sacrifices none of his masculinity.

Depends on your interpretation of masculinity. Except for his looks and possibly frivolity, I'm not entirely sure what about him could be considered "effeminate" (I'd love to hear your reasoning behind that, truly). 

[Darth_Shizz]

Ethan009 wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

KentGoldings wrote...

I think the idea of having a bi-sexual character is well intentioned. However, the Zevran character himself gives in to too many gay stereotypes. That is, Zev is not very masculine. It would have been much more astonishing if Loghain were the gay one. This is a huge problem with the portrayal of gay characters in the media. They're happy to have a gay character. But, the homosexuality is a source of humor or the character himself is effeminate. Which is the case of Zevran. In contrast, a character like Captain Jack Harkness in "Torchwood" is unambiguously bi-sexual. Yet, sacrifices none of his masculinity.

Depends on your interpretation of masculinity. Except for his looks and possibly frivolity, I'm not entirely sure what about him could be considered "effeminate" (I'd love to hear your reasoning behind that, truly). 

This I actually like effeminate elves. He's not one. It made me a sad panda. His hair is too short for one, his skin isn't pretty enough nor is his body is slender enough or his voice is soft enough. He's defintely male. He's not even pretty for pete's sake. >_> 

This is what I was thinking, though I think I was a bit generous in offering up the "yeah, maybe based on looks, sorta"

@Kent

Whilst I wouldn't take him as an example of hyper-masculinity, somewhere in the mould of Cole Train or Kratos, I wouldn't really call him "effeminate", and I definitely wouldn't think of him as a typically gay stereotype 0_o Once he starts using phrases like "fierce", "fabulous" and "to die for"...and possibly occasionally bursting into song and dance numbers from The Sound of Music, THEN you can call him a a gay stereotype. As he is now however, I really struggle to see it.

I see "Zevran", not "Gay Man #47".

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 16 janvier 2010 - 02:34 .

[Creature 1]

[quote]Ethan009 wrote...
Wait what? Why would I care about you getting annoyed?   Heck why would I waste my time trying to annoy someone? You're taking offense where...well its not there.[/quote]
No, actually, I wasn't taking offense.  The topic of Zevran for some reason causes a lot of anti-Zevran people to deliberately attempt to cause offense.  I wasn't sure if you were doing the usual routine or not.  

[quote]Zev is easily replaced by either the PC (most of my human nobles end up rogues mostly because I find Warriors boring as heck to play) or Leilana. Heck you're right with a respec no one is truely irreplaceable. [/quote]
I don't usual respec characters away from their primary focus.

[quote]Also why would Morrigan leave you for torturing anyone? [/quote]
I forget Morrigan, I don't like her so often leave her behind.

[quote]Ali as been said won't leave you regardless of killing children as long as its not his crisis moment,[/quote]
Another reason I don't like Alistair. . .  To be consistent, he should go.  He only does not because of plot reasons, yet this makes him a massive hypocrit. 

[quote]Sten wouldn't care, Shale wouldn't care,[/quote]
I forget Shale as well.  I just don't play much with her.

[quote]Wynne...is never there on those playthroughs (those playthroughs being the one where I'm bloodthirsty). [/quote]
Alistair should tell her, if he weren't too much of a ****. 

[quote]The only one who *probably* would leave is Leliana. Two People Wow! And that's taking into effect you haven't hardened her >_> [/quote]
I think even hardened Leliana would have opinions about pointless sadism.  If she doesn't, she's stupid, because anyone nuts enough to torture a prisoner for no reason is nuts enough to do equally unpleasant things to his or her companions. 

[quote]Oghren is normally too drunk out of his mind to care. >_>[/quote]
He walks, talks, and kills stuff.  He'd notice. 

[quote]You realize most of the cast wouldn't care about morally questionable things right? [/quote]
There's morally questionable and there's crossing the moral event horizon.  Other morally questionable things you do in the game are for certain benefit.  Killing Isolde--she volunteered, it's the fastest way to solve the problem.  Contaminating the ashes--it is just ashes, and it gets you power.  Siding with Branka--gets you the anvil intact.  Torturing Zevran gets you nothing, and isn't something that a normal person would do.  If you're traveling with someone and find out they enjoy cutting bits off people for no good reason, that suggests you need to find new travelling companions. 

[quote]I was talking about my megolomanic evil human noble. Frankly he'd probably put Vaughn to shame. I actually feel that delicious chill when I delve into his mindset he's so...vile its...somewhat...bah I can't really find the words for it. The one that would pimp smack Shianna for calling him a shem. Why I didn't get the option to verbally tear her in two I'll never understand.[/quote]
Even evil characters must be circumspect.  If you really want to torture Zevran, seduce him, get him away from the rest of the group, tie him up, and go to town.  Then kill him and tell the rest of the party he left.  Provided you remember to change your bloody clothes, they'll probably buy it.  But torturing him in front of the group is just plain stupid. 

(Hopefully I'm not giving homicide advice to a sociopath.  )

[quote]Edit: No character betrays you as long as you don't betray them. (Well there is *one* person that *might* be an exception) but on the whole as long as you treat them right they do the same. This goes for EVERYONE[/quote]
I disagree.  If Alistair weren't ridiculously idealistic and idolatrous of Duncan and if he trusted my character like he says he does, he would not leave the party if I recruit Loghain.  It's only a betrayal in his mind because he's an idiot. 

[quote] I have to lie to his face just to get approval (one of the reasons I dislike Morrigan I'm so sick of having to smile and nod to gain approval unless I feel like gift spamming!) One of the things I love about Sten and Alistair I don't have to agree with them all the time to get approval. (Just most of the time. <_< ) [/quote]
I find it pretty easy to get approval with Zevran without having to lie.  If I don't kiss up to Alistair I have a heck of a time getting him to like me, though. 

[quote]Frankly it reinforces the lesson: Treat others how you want to be treated. Or bribe the heck out of them with gifts. [/quote]
Important lessons that all of us should remember. 

[charmedmeat]

MiSsSmOkEy20 wrote...

my finger slipped.

Nah, that one's too easy...

*whistles innocently*

[Frozeal]

 You spin me right round, baby
right round like a record, baby
Right round round round
You spin me right round, baby
Right round like a record, baby
Right round round round

[trueKieran]

I knew I would like that guy the minute I recruited him, it almost gave Alistair a heart attack. It takes a while to get to know him, but then he's a great guy to hang around with.

[Greyshaft1]

Nope killed the knife eared sleeze as betrayed me on my first 2 play throughs maybe my dalsih will try and win him over.

[Wesley Wyndam Price]

I prefer Alistair...but alas I can only bromance him.



Zevren is a decent character but I'm afraid my character would get herpes or something after sleeping with him.

[Magic Zarim]

I love him. He's so hot.



Whenever I need my fix I just load a certain save-game. Single + DA:O = WIN.

[Riddley313]

I liked him just fine until he started hitting on me.

[Wishpig]

Zevran sucks


The only long cylindrical thing Oghren puts in his mouth is trees... as he cuts them down with his bare teeth... then s***s out firewood.

Seriously though, I'm not a fan of Zevran if only cause I hate elves and his voice! But he does have some damn funny conversations with fellow companions. Although I will admit, bioware deserves a pat on the back for giving us a male gay companion. It's stuff like this that subconsciously makes people more open minded and hopefully accepting. My bros a hardcore christian and against gays, but he loves Zevran and I'll be damned if thats not a step in the right direction!

So for that reason alone I guess I do like him for what he represents.

Modifié par Wishpig, 17 janvier 2010 - 08:22 .

[Girchou]

I like him, he's quite funny and useful.

but unfortunatly im gonna have to kill him.