370 réponses à ce sujet

[Argolas]

N7 Drone wrote...

Pefer: Synthesis
Second: Refuse

That's certainly interesting. If serious, care to explain?

[PsyrenY]

Bester76 wrote...

I'm still waiting to hear how exactly you determined that the 'majority' of fans enjoyed the game, seeing as you have absolutely no way of determining that. Equally, I'm looking forward to you providing your rationale for drawing the conclusion that the majority of fans bought the DLC, when clearly, they haven't.

The fact that Bioware considered it a sound business decision to keep making more? If Leviathan had tanked, would they have bothered with Citadel, which clearly cost a lot of money with all the VAs they had to bring on board?

And again, just one youtube video has a far larger sample than any poll on this board. And the ratio of approval to disapproval over there is pretty telling.

Let's take a look at the videos that have the most views for each ending.

Synthesis ending with the most views (620k): 3237 like, 333 dislike - 90.6% favorable.

Control ending with the most views (510k): 2,271 like, 235 dislike - 90.6% favorable.

Destroy ending with the most views (576k): 2583 like, 318 dislike - 89.0% favorable

And lastly:

Refusal ending with the most views (715k): 1615 like, 1201 dislike - 57.3% favorable.

This is a far different story than any BSN poll will tell. Youtube has lower barriers to participation - far more people have a YT account than a BSN account. Youtube also is much easier for international fans to access than the English-language polls found on BSN.

If your point of view is correct, the numbers should point to the opposite - Synthesis should be the least popular, or at the very least it shouldn't be nearly so high. Destroy and Refusal should be the most popular, and Refusal, being BSN's ultimate expression of rage, shouldn't be coming in so clearly last.

Care to explain?

[Iakus]

MEHEM ending with the most views 163,335 1370 likes, 136 dislikes.  Looks like a 90%ish approval rating. 

[PsyrenY]

iakus wrote...

MEHEM ending with the most views 163,335 1370 likes, 136 dislikes.  Looks like a 90%ish approval rating. 

Hey give it  a few, it may eventually get to half the views of Control 

But if only folks who like X ending go to watch its video, how do you explain Refusal's ratio? 

[adayaday]

Considering that MEHEM is a non official,fan made,PC exclusive, it is doing WAY better then it should when compered to the other endings.

[PsyrenY]

And I'm happy for MEHEM, but the argument was that Synthesis is hated based on the BSN polls. Yet with 4x the views of MEHEM and 3x the voter participation (i.e. more representative sample), it is widely liked. Still waiting for an explanation on that.

[adayaday]

You do know that some people "like" as a tribute for the uploader rather then the content itself.
also have you noticed that the top comments in ALL the videos?they don't look like comment that were left by a person who appreciate the hard work the developers put into this story.

Modifié par adayaday, 19 avril 2013 - 10:09 .

[Astartes Marine]

adayaday wrote...
You do know that some people "like" as a tribute for the uploader rather then the content itself.

I'd like to also add that people "like" the videos for different reasons. 

One can quite literally "like" it with the reaction that the vid is so bad that it's good in a cheesy Roger Corman sort of way.  For example I've been watching the Game Grumps' Lets Play of Sonic '06, I've "liked" a few of the episodes not because the game is good (oh hell no the game is absolutely awful) but the commentary is often funny.  Hearing one of them nearly have a total breakdown thanks to the broken mess that were the controls nearly had me on the floor.

[PsyrenY]

adayaday wrote...

You do know that some people "like" as a tribute for the uploader rather then the content itself.

Indeed I do, but if it is so widely hated people wouldn't even do that. They would dislike it based on content.

At best this phenomenon should push it closer to a 75/25 ratio rather than 91/9.

adayaday wrote...
also have you noticed that the top comments in ALL the videos?they don't look like comment that were left by a person who appreciate the hard work the developers put into this story.

I see comments supporting and comments opposing. People are arguing on Youtube like they always do. But I bet if I went through and added up all the comments in favor and the ones against, it would still have a different result than a BSN poll would.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 19 avril 2013 - 10:21 .

[PsyrenY]

Astartes Marine wrote...

One can quite literally "like" it with the reaction that the vid is so bad that it's good in a cheesy Roger Corman sort of way. 

Perhaps, but it's highly unlikely that even 500 out of those 3000 likes did it for this farfetched reason.

[adayaday]

Optimystic_X wrote...

adayaday wrote...

You do know that some people "like" as a tribute for the uploader rather then the content itself.

Indeed I do, but if it is so widely hated people wouldn't even do that. They would dislike it based on content.

At best this phenomenon should push it closer to a 75/25 ratio rather than 91/9.

adayaday wrote...
also have you noticed that the top comments in ALL the videos?they don't look like comment that were left by a person who appreciate the hard work the developers put into this story.

I see comments supporting and comments opposing. People are arguing on Youtube like they always do. But I bet if I went through and added up all the comments in favor and the ones against, it would still have a different result than a BSN poll would.

I said TOP comments.
Also i would very much like to know on what you are basing your guess at the numbers,cause most video i have seen that support the ending in away way for any reason tend to get burried down realy fast by dislikes and spam flagging.

Modifié par adayaday, 19 avril 2013 - 10:28 .

[Astartes Marine]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...
One can quite literally "like" it with the reaction that the vid is so bad that it's good in a cheesy Roger Corman sort of way. 

Perhaps, but it's highly unlikely that even 500 out of those 3000 likes did it for this farfetched reason.

The point is that none of us know.  It's all speculation as to the reasoning.

[PsyrenY]

adayaday wrote...
I said TOP comments.

You know those are rotated periodically right?

adayaday wrote...Also i would very much like to know on what you are basing your guess at the numbers,cause most video i have seen that support the ending in away way for any reason tend to get burried down realy fast by dislikes and spam flagging.

I'm not "guessing" anything. I linked the videos and posted the numbers. You can follow the links yourself if you don't believe me.

Astartes Marine wrote...

The point is that none of us know.  It's all speculation as to the reasoning.

And the probability that all 3000+ likes for Synthesis are people thanking the uploader but secretly hating Bioware's guts is...?

"Pretty low" is a safe bet.

Also, if your logic is correct, why is the ratio so different for Refusal? If anything, even more people should be "thanking the uploader" there.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 19 avril 2013 - 10:35 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'm going to say this about synthesis.

Of every person I know who played and finished ME3, every single one of them thought synthesis was terrible.

A friend of mine who liked it at first after playing just ME3 alone went back and did the whole trilogy. She told me she doesn't know what possessed her to like synthesis after that.

Take that for what you will.

I do believe that most people don't like synthesis. I don't blame them.

I believe refusing is better than synthesis.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 19 avril 2013 - 11:32 .

[ruggly]

I will say I like synthesis as an idea, but the explanation/presentation/execution make me want to slam my head against a wall repeatedly.

Modifié par ruggly, 19 avril 2013 - 11:37 .

[PsyrenY]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Of every person I know who played and finished ME3, every single one of them thought synthesis was terrible.

Of every person I know who played and finished ME3, every single one of them thought synthesis was cool.

I won't say it was their favorite - some picked Control - but none of them had any doubt that Synthesis was meant to be the "best" ending, at least as far as the galaxy was concerned.

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
I do believe that most people don't like synthesis.

I believe refusing is better than synthesis.

I don't. And apparently, neither do thousands of people on Youtube. Take for that what you will.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 19 avril 2013 - 11:40 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

ruggly wrote...

I will say I like synthesis as an idea, but the explanation/presentation/execution make me want to slam my head against a wall repeatedly.

As an idea, it's great. It's transhumanism.

It's presentation, execution, implications, motivation, and science make it repugnant with Mass Effect.

The whole final ending theme, while not in conflict with the trilogy in it's broadest form, is completely out of place with the series as a presentation. You're doing everything wrong for the wrong reasons. As a narrative theme, organics versus synthetics was solved after the Rannoch mission. There was no need to rehash it as the final theme.

I believe that SuperMac and Hudson were throwing **** at the wall and seeing what would stick. That's how the ending got made.

[Iakus]

adayaday wrote...

Considering that MEHEM is a non official,fan made,PC exclusive, it is doing WAY better then it should when compered to the other endings.

Not to mention the first version was released five months after EC.  Therefore, the other videos have a five month head start...

[Chashan]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

You appear to have a very limited view on the motivations behind MEHEM.

I watched it; that's literally what it does. No choice, no Catalyst, no deeper meaning behind the Reaper cycles. Just push button, Reapers die. Am I wrong? Please provide a deeplink if you have a counterargument.

And you expected the BFG to do what, exactly? Prior to the thing's coming to the rescue, that was basically what the game disclosed about it.

Now compare that to how the 'end-game' of Jade Empire is revealed progressively, wherein I do find quite a few similarities to ME3 - not too surprising, same company and ironically enough same staff involved, after all.
However, contrary to JE, ME3's vanilla-plot just completely passes over what the Wunderwaffe's various options - supposing there need to be any at all - in fact are.
Bigger part still is the pretentious nature of the thing that comes along with the 'choice/meaning'-package, all three of which are very much of questionable value. Again, compare the thing with the two characters - with actual characterisation, in contrast to it - of crucial importance to the finale in JE, which are present throughout the story in one way or another.
Given that the ones commonly associated with ME3's vanilla-finale had a part in that game too, I truly am baffled that they got things so very wrong in ME3 in that regard.




As to the topic: Preferred Ending overall, and I do mention because it is the simple truth, is MEHEM, which I consider a 'fix' to an otherwise fatally flawed wrap-up of the game.

Vanilla-endings, it would be first Destroy, since it's good material to work from if BW decide to canonize any of their options (they do have a definite loop-hole to get around that, if they so wish), second Refuse, regarding which BW should just have refrained from further comment, to be had.

Modifié par Chashan, 20 avril 2013 - 01:07 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Optimystic_X wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Of every person I know who played and finished ME3, every single one of them thought synthesis was terrible.

Of every person I know who played and finished ME3, every single one of them thought synthesis was cool.

I won't say it was their favorite - some picked Control - but none of them had any doubt that Synthesis was meant to be the "best" ending, at least as far as the galaxy was concerned.

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
I do believe that most people don't like synthesis.

I believe refusing is better than synthesis.

I don't. And apparently, neither do thousands of people on Youtube. Take for that what you will.

I hate synthesis, and I believe it was meant to be the "best" ending. I don't think anyone here is really refuting the idea that it was meant to be the best ending - BW pretty much intended it to be the best ending. I don't think it should have been though. Most of the people I know think the concept was decent, but everything else behind it was terrible. The execution is bad, the presentation is bad, the science is bad, and the reason for starting it is bad. You're picking it for the wrong reasons. Not *you* as in you specifically, but from the belief that the problem is on the catalyst's end, not organics.

I also feel that synthesis and the ending in general is trying to hard to be pretentious. 

The concept shouldn't have been a major OMG thing. It's really not, nor it should be.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 20 avril 2013 - 12:10 .

[nrobbiec]

Preferred Ending: Destroy.

Second Choice: Good lord, um... Synthesis. Jesus that's a hard choice for a passionate High EMS Destroy fan. I guess I'd go with synthesis from a character perspective, my Shepard fought the Illusive Man he would never think "oh maybe the indoctrinate guy was right so I'll go ahead with his plan after all" it makes no sense. I'm not a fan of Synthesis, it's an abomination and giving the Reapers what they want but it ensures peace. And Shepard has always fought for peace and would want Kaidan to live in a future where he's safe. Also, Kasumi is reunited with Keiji in Synthesis so if Shepard left a similar device there's a chance Kaidan could too get a reunion.

I don't like MEHEM so without Destroy I'd still want a canon ending.

Modifié par nrobbiec, 20 avril 2013 - 12:13 .

[Iakus]

Chashan wrote...
Now compare that to how the 'end-game' of Jade Empire is revealed progressively, wherein I do find quite a few similarities to ME3 - not too surprising, same company and ironically enough same staff involved, after all.
However, contrary to JE, ME3's vanilla-plot just completely passes over what the Wunderwaffe's various options - supposing there need to be any at all - in fact are.

Funny thing, in Jade Empire, the Spirit Monk sacrificing him/herself to the logic of the primary antagonist, and paving the way to a new "golden age" of peace and prosperity, was the bad ending

[AlanC9]

Chashan wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...
I watched it; that's literally what it does. No choice, no Catalyst, no deeper meaning behind the Reaper cycles. Just push button, Reapers die. Am I wrong? Please provide a deeplink if you have a counterargument.

And you expected the BFG to do what, exactly? Prior to the thing's coming to the rescue, that was basically what the game disclosed about it.

Actually, the game disclosed even less, and Bio went out of their way to point out at every opportunity that we didn't know exactly what the thing would do.

If you really expected the Crucible to simply kill Reapers and only Reapers, you were not paying attention. I don't know how Bio could have made it more obvious that something weird was going to happen.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 avril 2013 - 12:19 .

[Hadeedak]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Man, everyone's so grouchy over the fanfiction mod or the favorite color. The best part of the endings is there's pros and cons to each, and no empirical best one. Take that away, and I'd be sad.

Anyway. I've picked all of them, varying on the Shepard, personality, and so on and so forth.

Looking at the EC, the aftermath, and what I think of the underlying themes that I choose to interpret in them....

First choice: Control.
Second choice: Refuse

I like destroy and synthesis just fine, though. I like the message of self-sacrifice and change, the sense of one woman giving up her life to stand forever, holding the dark back from her galaxy. So. Control, baby! ....Refuse is just for the speech and I think it's super awesome they put that in. Love synthesis for the sense of hope on those slides. Destroy is testosterone-y awesome. Heheh, bad things go boom.

I respect your opinion but just vehemently disagree.  For me self-sacrifice is something done for a clear good, for the betterment of all.  Control may in theory seem like you're doing some good, but in practice creates a kind of anti-life, anti-self reliance sort of milieu.  First off, the reapers still exist.  That is the major problem.  They are as Anderson put it, abominations, created with perhaps some good intent but done so in the most horrific way.  If I existed at the time and saw these people goo sucking sky scraper sized monstrosities still alive after all that has happened, I'd be horrified.  I want them gone from my reality.  They have killed planets and have turned people into goo.  Keeping them around is my nightmare.  Beyond that, the reaper variants are now what?  Neighbors.  What a farce.

I don't want the reapers fixing things.  I don't want the reapers as galactic cops.  I don't want them to exist anymore.  And Shepard would understand that.  And the idea that one person, no matter how good the intent, should control such things and be the galaxy's overseer-no, just no.  Remember that again the catalyst may have had some good intent and look how that turned out.  Shepard as reaper commander is no longer Shepard, but merely thoughts and memories, but people are more than that.  And the cutscene clearly implies that Shepard is not alone in there.  This is not what I think Shepard would want to become-in my game, she never wanted to become something greater.  She wanted individuals to reclaim their future and their lives and to each become something greater.  Control tends to remove that idea.

Yeah, that's your read on it. It's not mine, obviously. I see control as one individual sacrificing herself and her humanity to preserve knowledge and preserve others. And no, I don't think Shep-adel is inevitably going to go mad. I don't see it about grabbing power, or playing god, or policing everything. I see it as being about preservation. Whatever the Reapers are or are not, they are vast respositories of knowledge -- perhaps the only ghosts of vanished civilizations. What they could become is up in the air, kind of like what they truly are and how much autonomy they have.

My Shepard was always about preserving the greatest possible diversity and the most perspectives on this crazy zany galaxy she could. And she wasn't up for shooting the Reapers with the geth in the way.

That being said, another one totally was. Depends on the Shepard I'm playing. Control's my personal favorite, but there's good reasons for each one and consquences to each. It's what  I like about them!

[Chashan]

AlanC9 wrote...

Chashan wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...
I watched it; that's literally what it does. No choice, no Catalyst, no deeper meaning behind the Reaper cycles. Just push button, Reapers die. Am I wrong? Please provide a deeplink if you have a counterargument.

And you expected the BFG to do what, exactly? Prior to the thing's coming to the rescue, that was basically what the game disclosed about it.

Actually, the game disclosed even less, and Bio went out of their way to point out at every opportunity that we didn't know exactly what the thing would do.

If you really expected the Crucible to simply kill Reapers and only Reapers, you were not paying attention. I don't know how Bio could have made it more obvious that something weird was going to happen.

Said 'weird' would have needed actual build-up. It's preposterous and incredulous that going into the finale its exact function was not determined already, given that entire armies of technicians and scientists were at it. Providing that only at the last possible moment precisely is the problem.
And the conventional 'destructive' potential actually_was_disclosed, by characters well-known at that point well ahead of Chronos. The friendly-fire situation only ever gets introduced by the thing at eleventh hour, and naught else.