370 réponses à ce sujet

[Yestare7]

dreamgazer wrote...

Yeah, measuring an ending's popularity on YouTube thumbs of approval is pretty pointless.

Obviously mr. Optimistic is willing to grasp any straw for his Synthesis.:lol:

Here are almost 600 recent BSN votes

http://social.biowar...19/polls/44634/

[PsyrenY]

Asharad Hett wrote...

Unsuprisingly, 90% of people attracted to each ending like that ending. Well colour me shocked.

When 600,000 people view a video and only 2,000 hit the like or dislike button, you cannot scientifically determine the opinion of the other 598,000 who watched it.   

Sure I can. They didn't feel strongly enough to hit either button.
That's a far cry from the vitriolic hatred on BSN.

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Why are people using YouTube video popularities as arguments for anything?

It is known that 90% of people on YouTube are idiots.

90% of YT doesn't watch Mass Effect videos; Mass Effect players do.

dreamgazer wrote...

Yeah, measuring an ending's popularity on YouTube thumbs of approval is pretty pointless.

How many people upvoted any of the ending videos (especially synthesis) so they didn't have to see it in-game? How many people upvoted it merely because the quality was decent? Plenty of factors.

So all 3000+ hate Synthesis but upvoted it? Seems legit.

[PsyrenY]

Yestare7 wrote...

Here are almost 600 recent BSN votes

Ooh 600 people, clearly that's the whole fanbase right there.

I'm so glad Bioware takes BSN polls with a large grain of salt. 

[Ieldra]

The sample "BSN members more than one year after release" is extremely non-representative with a high percentage of intolerant fanatics, and almost all of those are Destroyers (evidence: this thread, and note that I'm not saying all Destroyers are intolerant fanatics).

If you look at data with some claim to being at least somewhat representative, you'll always get similar results: Destroy about 40%, Synthesis, Control and Refuse about 20% each. This hasn't changed since the EC came out. I wish Bioware would publish the results, then we could stop these silly arguments.

[Yestare7]

Ieldra2 wrote...

 (note that I'm not saying all Destroyers are intolerant fanatics).

 Destroy about 40%, Synthesis, Control and Refuse about 20% each.

First point: good, thank you.

second point: it looks like you forgot MEHEM there.

[Yestare7]

Optimystic_X wrote...


Ooh 600 people, clearly that's the whole fanbase right there.

I'm so glad Bioware takes BSN polls with a large grain of salt. 

Ofcourse you downplay the 600, since they are not Synth-friendly.:lol:

These 600 are dedicated individuals, who hang around these boards after the final DLC has been released. They have thought about their endings, and have debated it. I believe these are 600 legitimate votes. Now I do agree it's only 600,
so the numbers may go up or down a bit, if the scale goes up.

Main conclusions will remain:  Destroy the largest faction, with MEHEM as a good second
(And still thinking of all the XBOX owners and PS3 owners, who cannot choose it)

[PsyrenY]

 

Yestare7 wrote...
Ofcourse you downplay the 600, since they are not Synth-friendly.:lol:

Actually, 68 of them are Synth-friendly.
And I don't have to downplay them - 600 (or even 532) means nothing.

Yestare7 wrote...These 600 are dedicated individuals, who hang around these boards after the final DLC has been released.

Still missing the point - the majority of those who "hang around these boards" are the angry ones. Those that left have gotten their closure/clarification and moved on, not to mention the multitudes that never even signed up for BSN to begin with.

If the only people who bought Bioware games were the forumgoers they would starve.

[Yestare7]

Optimystic_X wrote...

If the only people who bought Bioware games were the forumgoers they would starve.

There. I found something we agree on!

[AlanC9]

Yestare7 wrote...

second point: it looks like you forgot MEHEM there.

My guess would be the statistics he's citing don't count MEHEM since only a tiny fraction of ME players have even heard of the thing.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 avril 2013 - 07:19 .

[David7204]

We can safety rule out the possibility of any kind of game with Synthesis or Refuse.

[Bourne Endeavor]

bocajbee wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

Prefer: MEHEM
second: destroy high EMS - Citadel party.

Shep lives, and has lots of blue babies with Liara
(oh right, Reapers are dead. that too)

Sweet Jesus, MEHEM was horrible. Too overly Disney like & cheesy. I can't see why anyone would like it. It would be like seeing Chigir getting killed at the end of No Country For Old Men or Elizebeth and Booker having happy father daughter time at the end of Bioshok Infinite. These endigs are suppose to leave loose ends for you to use your imagination, not have everything put on a plate for you because you're incapable of thinking about the possible oucomes yourself. 

It just doesn't fit...

Find me one piece of medium where the ending is cut out entirely. I have purchased a product with the intent of having a cohesive narrative and imagining depicted on screen for my enjoyment. If I wished to rely wholly on my own imagination, why should I pay BioWare anything? I just did their job for them.

I find your reference to a "Disney ending" disingenuous at best, obnoxiously missing the point otherwise. Is this not a game of choice? Both of ME3's predecessors were about overcoming the impossible and defying the odds. Why are those who wished for a similar conclusion to what they were accustom to told "too bad, enjoy your bitter-ending?" Nevertheless, MEHEM is the best modders can accomplish. Many would be content with a satisfying endings, even if it meant Shepard's death. (e.g. No nonsensical idiocy from the Starbrat and something where your choices had an impact.)

Your examples are off base and lack proper context. A comparable example would be:

The following contains spoilers of FFVII, FFX and Inception's endings respectively. This is my only warning if you do not wish to know their outcome.




Final Fantasy VII 

After defeating Sephiroth, Jenova pops out from nowhere despite no foreshadowing of any kind and offers Cloud the following:

Destroy: Save the Planet from Meteor, but everyone in Midgar arbitrarily dies.
Control: Cloud becomes the new "Sephiroth" by merging with Jenova
Synthesis: Everyone is fused with mako energy and we hope for the best.
Refuse: No change to the ending, but you automatically lose.

Ironically, FFVII's ending is criticized for being too vague on the status of the cast. Granted, this was intentional to make way for subsequent spin-off material. The difference is it provided an actual conclusion to the plot and what became of the characters was non-consequential. You were offered enough to infer what you wished, at least prior to Advent Children. ME3 did no such thing and practically requires headcanon to reach any conclusion.

If you want an example of a well executed bittersweet ending, Final Fantasy X hit the mark wonderfully. Yuna successfully vanquished Sin and ended the spiral of death that had plagued Spira for over a millennia. In the interim, she, alongside her guardians, exposed the false prophecies of Yevon and brought hope to a civilization that only knew nihilism. However, as a result of her success, Tidus disappears - his existence as a dream now over with Sin's defeat. She lost her love, the one person who changed her whole worldview and essentially made this all possible.

In hilarious irony, Tidus is made stronger than Shepard due to their respective narratives. Whereas, Tidus fought to the bitter end for his belief Spira's cycle could be broken. The only ending where Shepard is similarly allowed to fight for her convictions leads to worst ending possible.

For an ambiguous ending, look no further than Inception. We are left to wonder whether Dom's reunion with his kids is reality or another dream. Regardless, the character has closure, either in mind or reality. Compare that to the cheap non-committed "breath scene" from Shepard.

Incidentally, all three of the aforementioned had an ending - their story and characters were accounted for and wrapped up nicely. The audience may be left to speculate on what came later, but not feeling as those the story came to an abrupt halt. I paid for all three and was rewarded with content. Meanwhile, BioWare is asking I figure out their ending for myself because they couldn't be arsed to do it themselves. Fine, just charge me less for the game then.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 20 avril 2013 - 08:16 .

[David7204]

That's really a pretty bad example. MEHEM supplies a reunion and completely fails to supply a whole lot else. A confrontation with the antagonist, a motive for the Reapers, some kind of final conflict for Shepard. All of those things are necessary for a great ending. MEHEM doesn't fix those issues at all, it simply ignores them.

You can appreciate MEHEM for what it is, but the idea that it's a more 'complete' ending is nonsense.

You also don't help your argument by trying to make a point about money, that the ending would be okay if BioWare charged less. That's just stupid.

Modifié par David7204, 20 avril 2013 - 08:12 .

[Yestare7]

MEHEM's creator (Mr Fob) wanted to get rid of the brat. He did that.
Shep lives, and she gets a hug afterwards.

A great ending? He himself has said MEHEM is not perfect.
It's an improvement, it's better than the BW endings.

[David7204]

As I just said, you can certainly appreciate it for what it is. The problems is when people go making arguments that MEHEM is better based on dumb reasons, such as being more 'complete' then the game endings.

[Bourne Endeavor]

David7204 wrote...

That's really a pretty bad example. MEHEM supplies a reunion and completely fails to supply a whole lot else. A confrontation with the antagonist, a motive for the Reapers, some kind of final conflict for Shepard. All of those things are necessary for a great ending. MEHEM doesn't fix those issues at all, it simply ignores them.

You can appreciate MEHEM for what it is, but the idea that it's a more 'complete' ending is nonsense.

You also don't help your argument by trying to make a point about money, that the ending would be okay if BioWare charged less. That's just stupid.

What? I drew no comparison to MEHEM and my example referred to ME3's default endings if they were executed in identical fashion in another story. How you could infer differently is... interesting to say the least.

Find one piece in my entire post where I even insinuated MEHEM is a complete ending. I'll wait.

My argument does not need any help, it stands on its own merit just fine. You blatantly missing the point is not my problem. And you do so once more. I said BioWare should charge less if their intent was to say, "speculate on everything!" as per the person I had quoted suggested. In essence, I would be doing their job for them, thus I should be compensated for it. More to the point, it's sarcasm.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 20 avril 2013 - 08:27 .

[Yestare7]

(serious thinking)

If I could ask ONE question to Mac and Casey, it would be this:

"With all the different endings, EMS system, and then the extended cut, WHY have you not included a happy ending with some decent closure?"



- One of my favorite parts of the Tolkien books, is the closure. In the last 100 pages nothing heroic happens. They travel a bit, visit a few people, smoke a pipe, and then go to the harbors. It's just lovely to enjoy the characters in a relaxed, casual setting. (must be why I adore the Citadel DLC)





Y

Modifié par Yestare7, 20 avril 2013 - 08:30 .

[David7204]

Your post was directly in response to someone heavily criticizing MEHEM. And your post has several paragraphs complaining about the game endings for not being complete. The insinuation is obvious - 'MEHEM is better because it addresses these issues, which the game fails at.'

And that's just stupid. The monetary value of a story is not proportional to the amount of explanation given. Even if it was, ME 3 should have cost a great deal more than other games, not less, considering it has much more content.

This has never been an issue of money. And making it one is just being vindictive and stupid.

Modifié par David7204, 20 avril 2013 - 08:34 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

Yestare7 wrote...

(serious thinking)

If I could ask ONE question to Mac and Casey, it would be this:

"With all the different endings, EMS system, and then the extended cut, WHY have you not included a happy ending with some decent closure?"

- One of my favorite parts of the Tolkien books, is the closure. In the last 100 pages nothing heroic happens. They travel a bit, visit a few people, smoke a pipe, and then go to the harbors. It's just lovely to enjoy the characters in a relaxed, casual setting. (must be why I adore the Citadel DLC)


Y

It would run contrary to their stance: Are ending was fine, you just misunderstood. A happy ending on an elevated scale to what MEHEM is would be admitting their vision was flawed. Furthermore, they would hard pressed to justify selling that, since doing it for free would be incredibly costly - they couldn't simply throw in stills and run with it.

Overall, it's a pride thing. I cannot entirely fault them for standing by their content, even if I will criticize it for what it is.

[David7204]

No, it isn't a pride thing. I'm sure if they could go back and change things, they would absolutely do things differently. But they can't. DLC is not a magic wand to fix any flaws in the story and make everything perfect.

Modifié par David7204, 20 avril 2013 - 08:37 .

[Yestare7]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Overall, it's a pride thing.

This might be correct. They would be admitting their "art" is not so great.

[David7204]

They have never used 'art' as a defense, and it's goddamn annoying to hear that continually repeated.

[Yestare7]

David7204 wrote...

No, it isn't a pride thing. I'm sure if they could go back and change things, they would absolutely do things differently.

I disagree. They had a chance with the EC, and did not take it.

While producing Citadel DLC, they could have done it. 
(produce just a couple of scenes, and all the Voice actors were present)




Y

[Yestare7]

David7204 wrote...

They have never used 'art' as a defense, and it's goddamn annoying to hear that continually repeated.

Where did this come from then?

[David7204]

No. They couldn't. These things are a lot more complicated than you seem to realize. Having a nice reunion for a Destroy ending would make it completely clear that Destroy is the best ending and completely invalidate Control and Synthesis.