120 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

@TheWill,

I think the Catalyst knew of the child's existence because TIM had just recently attempted to indoctrinate Shepard. In fact you could say he at least partially succeeded, since he causes Shepard to shoot Anderson. Since Reaper tech was likely involved in whatever TIM was doing, the Catalyst probably had access to Shepard's memories.

[NT121784]

Avina

[Epsilon330]

I'd have the Virmire Sacrifice. S/he's the only character who's guaranteed to be dead by the time ME3 starts, and is referred to throughout the game as well. It would also fit the whole "take on a form you are familiar with" thing as well.

[justafan]

I like the disembodied voice idea. If not, perhaps a scrambled VI like Vigil.

Honestly, what really annoys me about him appearing as the child is that this implies he can read minds, which is somewhat unprecedented in ME.

[AlanC9]

justafan wrote...


Honestly, what really annoys me about him appearing as the child is that this implies he can read minds, which is somewhat unprecedented in ME.

While unprecedented, it's implicit in the technologies we've seen. The Prothean beacons can beam information into a brain, and conceptually that's a lot harder than reading information out.

[robertthebard]

AlanC9 wrote...

justafan wrote...


Honestly, what really annoys me about him appearing as the child is that this implies he can read minds, which is somewhat unprecedented in ME.

While unprecedented, it's implicit in the technologies we've seen. The Prothean beacons can beam information into a brain, and conceptually that's a lot harder than reading information out.

It also ignores the Asari, who can do that, by, to coin Joker's favorite phrase:  Embrace Eternity.  It is used a few times in ME 1, and then shelved until Liara's gift at the end of ME 3.

[Interloper]

I think the 'Catalyst' should firstly have NEVER been associated with the Reapers. I personally think it should have been some ancient AI system built by the creators of the Reapers as a failsafe to destroy their creations if they ever became unruly and intent upon obliterating all sentient organic life(as they do). By making the Catalyst part of the Reapers themselves, it makes no sense, firstly due tot he strange paternalistic argument in which 'synthetics must kill all organics to save organics from synthetics'( which is essentially like Hitler after the Holocaust saying, 'oh yeah, I just murdered all these people so that no one else would murder them) secondly because it clashes substantially with the theme throughout the series that 'no one can negotiate with the Reapers' and becuase talking with the Catalyst feels like surrendering to the terms of the reapers(when Shepard has always been about defying the 'impossible odds' of the Reapers) and lastly, because the catalyst shouldn't sound like some impudent brat who you just want to kick into the reaches of dark space. Like seriously, you talk with him and he's like the sly salesman who shows you that new car you want to buy, then says, 'BUUTTT, I have a much better deal RIGHT OVER HERE.' and spends the next hour trying to cram HIS choice down your throat.

[huntrrz]

lindisfaran wrote...

I just wonder why he's a kid from your dreams of Vancouver... my dislike of him comes from the conversation and what he is. But really, how did the AI know about the kid or the dreams? Sorta' strange.

Exactly. A generic kid makes as much sense as anything else. THAT particular kid raises all sorts of questions that aren't answered in game. How does that catalyst know that image?  It was either a fake it created to begin with, or it read Shepard's mind, or the entire conversation is telepathic imagry as the Leviathans used.

If the last is the case, everything Shepard did after that could just as easily been an illusion.

Therefore, SHEPARD COULD SURVIVE IN ALL ENDINGS.



(How's THAT for speculation?)

[Rikketik]

A disembodied voice or just a lot of static--because the thing is so advanced that we can't comprehend its true form or something like that. Why it took the form of the kid, or better: why BioWare chose to make it take that form, I'll probably never understand.

[TK514]

I'd have preferred a random VI ball like Vigil or Glyph.

[AlanC9]

robertthebard wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
While unprecedented, it's implicit in the technologies we've seen. The Prothean beacons can beam information into a brain, and conceptually that's a lot harder than reading information out.

It also ignores the Asari, who can do that, by, to coin Joker's favorite phrase:  Embrace Eternity.  It is used a few times in ME 1, and then shelved until Liara's gift at the end of ME 3.

Quite right. I was thinking tech and forgot about the space magic.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

*snip*

Avina would have been a better choice.

[robertthebard]

AlanC9 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
While unprecedented, it's implicit in the technologies we've seen. The Prothean beacons can beam information into a brain, and conceptually that's a lot harder than reading information out.

It also ignores the Asari, who can do that, by, to coin Joker's favorite phrase:  Embrace Eternity.  It is used a few times in ME 1, and then shelved until Liara's gift at the end of ME 3.

Quite right. I was thinking tech and forgot about the space magic.

Yep, but I'd see mind reading as more a space magicky kind of thing as opposed to a tech kind of thing anyway.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Well, the Catalyst not existing would have been a good start.

If that ain't no option, I suggest the Overlord VI face, or a Reaper. You know, for honesty's sake.

[Megaton_Hope]

I would not have had the Catalyst in a game I was writing.

But the child Shepard saw just doesn't make sense, unless either the computer he's talking to got it from his mind in the first place (hence, is using his memories to manipulate him) or put it in his mind in the first place (hence, is using mind control to manipulate him even when he's on earth, and first encounters the mystery child).

The child works much better as a symptom of post-traumatic stress. Shepard is under a lot of strain throughout the series, surrounded by the reanimated bodies of the dead, terrorists, cultists, homicidal machines...he can't trust his superiors or his surroundings...even his own body becomes an experiment by Cerberus, calling into question the nature of his identity and reality of his perceptions. Shepard could very simply be cracking; his sleep is disturbed by survivor's guilt dreams, his waking life by hallucinations.

The presence of the child in this new context calls into question just what that child was to begin with (whether Shepard ever did see a child, whether that child exists). That is not the question I'd like to be asking at this juncture. Shepard is confronted with several weighty moral choices, none of them particularly good. If they wanted me to care about those, they shouldn't be distracting me with irrelevant tangents.

If not a child, I think I'd stick with, perhaps, a simulated image of the human councilor, since the Catalyst is trying to appeal to the sympathies of a human, and will only have access (through conventional means) to mass media depictions of humans. A pop star, if they'd thought to include one in the depicted culture. An actor. Anybody, doesn't really matter.

[TheProtheans]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

What I don't understand is the form and people's argument against IT being a valid interpretation.
His form is ridiculous,makes no sense and does not fit the image the Reapers give off throughout the Series.

The Catalyst chose that form because it wanted to convince Shepard to choose Synthesis. Appearing as a Reaper, spouting the same arrogant "we will kill you" that we're used to, will not endear Shepard (i.e., us) to its goals and logic. It makes perfect sense if you (the general you, not you specifically) get over yourself and your notions of what the ending "should be" and acknowledge that BW thought about what they were doing. The Catalyst is not an "info dump," it isn't BW telling us what their "canon ending" is. The Catalyst is a character within the game, with its own goals and motives. It is seeking to manipulate Shepard into choosing Synthesis, and chose a form designed to engender sympathy. We as humans are hard-wired to find kids cute and appealing.

However the only way this form could be used were to be if the Reapers are indeed inside Shepards head.
They would have to be or else this form would not exist.
Obviously this gives off the impression they're appealing to his thoughts and more or less indoctrinating him.

The Reapers might be trying to indoctrinate Shepard, and it's absolutely true that the AI wouldn't have chosen that form without having, say, scanned his/her brain. But there's a huge cognitive leap between "they're trying to indoctrinate Shepard" and "Shepard is obviously indoctrinated."

IT isn't about Shepard being indoctrinated during his encounter with the Catalyst so the leap is not to "He is indoctrinated".
It seems more if anything they're trying to indoctrinate or else they would not give a choice because Shepard would have no choice.

You may be right on the first part but the notion is awfully ridiculous and could be explained by Casey and Mac.

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Harbinger VI.

That baby voice telling me that stuff? Nope.

[thehomeworld]

I think the catylist was suppose to be Javik but w/o the glow and world domination thing. Javik once found on Eden Prime in the original script was suppose to replace shep as the pick your colored ending I guess in that scenario shep would've been hacked and beyond help so Javik probably killed him then decided on which suit he liked best for the galaxy.

[Ledgend1221]

Having that child was one of the stupidist decisions of the entire game.

[David7204]

Thank God that nonsense with Javik got scrapped.

[Han Shot First]

n/m

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 avril 2013 - 05:59 .

[Wayning_Star]

the catalyst is what the intelligence thinks that humanity IS. Children..or a child in a vast universe and more. Billions of years behind the curve..yet necessary..for some evolutionary reason undisclosed.

[SinerAthin]

David7204 wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

I'd frankly have him absent. The Citadel opens, the Crucible docks and presto! Climax over. You get a cool cut scene based on your choices & EMS and roll credits. Would have been so much better.

That would have sucked.

Maybe it would have sucked, but even though it would have sucked, it would still be 1000 times better than what we got

[JedTed]

As cliched as it was i didn't mind the Catalyst/Reaper Intelligence the final scene but i wonder how that scene would have played out if it took another form. If Bioware really wanted to hammer home the idea that "Shepard is the Catalyst" they could have just made it a ghostly image of Shepard(you already hear Meer's and Hale's voices echoing over the Catalyst).

[Shaleist]

Id have the catalyst appear in the form ofa big red 'kill da reapaz' button