295 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Is it really too much to ask that we not get boss battles like orsino, saren, reaper husk TIM, meredith, that rocky mantis thing in sundermount, etc.? 

I love the Final Boss battles on a game. Some are painfuly difficult, some are easier but it is a tradition and the game doesn't feel "done" without the last boss kill.

But I understand wanting to skip boss fights. A skip combat option would be great for people who dislike battling every single miniboss / final boss on every playthrough. I'd use it for boring / annoying minibosses - like Arishok - and go to combat for fun bosses.

Your misaing the point. Yes, fimding an alternstive way to confront bossess is well welcome, but not because their combat is annoying. There are bossess thatmake no sensr in the game and are placed there for the sake of having boss fights alone.

Orsino has no reason to become a flesh golum other than to make a monster for the player to fight. It defies his character and reason and logic for him to do this outside of following the tradition of video games having boss fights instead of actual confrontations that would match the charCter

[Cainhurst Crow]

Same for the sundermount rock mantis thing. Its suppose to be a ledgendary creature according to lore, and almost all gone. Yet you just find one, randomly, because the quest needed to be a bit hardsr than normal and the way to do that is noas battles and boss battles alone, according to tradition.

I like boss fights that make sense, which is why I lile the arishock fight. It fits the story and the arishovks character to fight him, espically one on one. Same goes for the archdemon, the mother, pride demons, and many other bosses.
I feel that the commitment to needing a big boss battle to resolve all the conflicts is a damaging view that foeces the story to bend over backwards to accomidate it, even if it makes no sense.

[kumquats]

Just saw the other week a playthrough of Shadow of the Colossus.
So how about NO.
I love Bossfights, why do you "fans", want to ruin DA:I?

[Dave of Canada]

kumquats wrote...

Just saw the other week a playthrough of Shadow of the Colossus.

And Shadow of the Colossus has no other gameplay, bosses are it's entire thing. One could argue the removal of the normal enemy in SOTC is because it was too "video gamey".

[The Spirit of Dance]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Too videogamey?????You do know it's a f#%king video game right

I think this comment sums up my thoughts on the subject quite nicely.

[LilyasAvalon]

Dabrikishaw wrote...

Saying something is too video gamey in a video game is incredibly stupid. That mindset is half the problem with modern video games.

This. A thousand times this.

Seriously, next people'll be saying that video games are too 'video gamey'. The hell do you people WANT?

[Teh Chozen Wun]

Some trolls are a little too apparent.

[Shevy]

I liked the Rock Wraith, Cory and the Duke because they weren't simple tank&spank fights. The MMORPG influences were neat, the only thing that made those fights kind of annoying was the horrible AI pathfinding and problem with "hold position".

With those issues solved, I would like to see such movement/positioning influenced fights in DA III again.

[Foolsfolly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

@Foolsfolly

In general I really liked the original MGS, but it definitely had some "legacy" from older school game design. It was more a realization that I shouldn't treat it as a "realistic" game (which is easy to do, given the content). The idea of not just being run and gun was definitely fun. It more just made me alter my perception of the game, and to play it within its scope. It's still one of my favourite games on the PSX, although upon replays I realize it's a bit too... "educational" haha.

Alpha Protocol sort of suffered a bit by the perception of realism to some, I think, because of its setting. Very early on I realized that the game wasn't really intended to be realistic (stealth makes you actually invisible), so I quickly considered it just an abstraction to demonstrate that Mike was able to do pretty phenomenal things.

It didn't alter my enjoyment in the slightest (one of my all time favs), but I know it did for some.

I get you, sir. Never played MGS but I played Alpha Protocol a lot. So I get what you're saying.

[Fredvdp]

I think the wording of the quote was pretty poor, but I think Mass Effect 3's lack of bossfight was well explained in the art book. There they said they didn't want a bossfight for the sake of a bossfight, and I agree with that. I also agree with Allan when he says there shouldn't have been a Saren bossfight if you convinced him to kill himself. I think the fight trivialized the fact that the player spent all those points in the persuasion skills. There was one RPG I played, and I won't name the title for those who haven't played it yet, where I could just tell the bad guy that his death wouldn't matter, and I just walked away. Credits. I thought that was perfect, because RPGs are, after all, about making choices.

While Mass Effect 3 didn't have a traditional bossfight, I think the final fight on Earth could count as one. Everything that comes after that, though initially executed poorly, would have been ruined even more if a bossfight came and ruined the quiet drama.

What I want in DA3 is a satisfying conclusion, whether that be in the form of a bossfight or a dramatic conversation (or both).

Modifié par Fredvdp, 19 avril 2013 - 10:28 .

[wyvvern]

For me the perfect example of the kind of fight that feels 'too videogamey' were the Kai Lang fights in ME3. Knock off a set amount of his shields, then fight mooks/dodge bullets while he 'recharges,' repeat thrice. It's like someone dropped a slice of old school Final Fantasy into the ME universe. It might have worked in another game, but it so broke the established rules of all other ME combat that it came across as both forced and completely immersion breaking.

[milena87]

Instead of taking them out completely, I would find ways to make boss fights more interesting, varied and with different approaches to them (maybe even giving us the ability to skip the actual fight through coercion, skills, manipulation, ...).

[Fast Jimmy]

Teh Chozen Wun wrote...

Some trolls are a little too apparent.

Some aren't, given the astounding number of people who responded that don't seem to recognize the OP was quoting a Bioware employee. 

[sickpixie]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Dabrikishaw wrote...

Saying something is too video gamey in a video game is incredibly stupid. That mindset is half the problem with modern video games.

This. A thousand times this.

Seriously, next people'll be saying that video games are too 'video gamey'. The hell do you people WANT?

Some people prefer games to lean more towards simulation than abstraction. Since Dragon Age started out as heavily abstract, I doubt such a significant change in style would be received all that well.

[Urazz]

I think Dragon Age 2 had some good boss battles but the big thing that made them crappier was that the bosses had too much hp or in the case of the Arishok, was chugging healing potions way too much giving him more effective hp. This was even worse because it was such a tease towards the player getting them thinking they were done with the fight but in fact they weren't.

[nightscrawl]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It represents a challenge to test their grasp on gameplay mechanics. It works as a milestone in the progress of the game. When overcome, it gives a large sense of satisfaction.

Dropping a boss fight is doable... but realize that you need elements that will supplement these feelings. ... You still need a way to break up the game and offer milestones in gameplay. And you need ways to make the gameplay variable, so that it doesn't feel like the same situation across the entire game.

I edited the post to focus on the relevant bits, which goes to my response to the following...

EntropicAngel wrote...

This is all predicated on the basis of playing a game for a challenge.

Some of us don't do that.

You disregarded part of the response though, which is that boss fights represent milestones in a game, can serve to break up the game into story arcs, and can add variation to fights because you can then have the one special villain that does weird/awesome/difficult abilities.

There is also the loot aspect, if that matters. It might seem silly to get a powerful weapon from some lame mob you kill with a bunch of other lame mobs. It "feels better," to use a term I've seen devs use, to have the shiny weapon/armor come from a boss fight; it feels like an earned reward.

It doesn't necessarily have to be about challenge. I don't play games for a challenge either, but I do enjoy boss fights especially if they have fun mechanics that aren't found elsewhere in the game. I thought the Meredith fight was very entertaining, for example.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 19 avril 2013 - 01:28 .

[Renmiri1]

EntropicAngel wrote...

kathic wrote...

I liked the rock wraith boss in DA2 because it reminded me more of WoW. A boss that requires movement and coordination rather than just healing and dealing damage and tanking.

That's called twitch mechanics.

Of course it's debatable whether it's "better" or not, but it's fairly uncommon in DA and thus I'd argue that it's the wrong direction to go.

I knew there was a reason for me to love that boss fight! 

So now you are agreeing WoW has  twitch mechanics ? Every time I post saying that you disagree with me.. 

EntropicAngel wrote...


That's fair, but I wouldn't say it's necessary, at all. Look at a book: there are multiple ways to end chapters, multiple ways to end sections--they don't ALL involve a cliff-hanger, or an earth-shattering revelation. It's marked by an end to the current topic or seting and move to another. If the game can be clear about that--then it doesn't need a boss.

Agreed but what do you suggest ? I confess I'm so used to boss battles being the "divider" between acts that I am at a loss to think of alternatives. A "dance-off" or a Guitar Hero kind of mechanics would s**k. Puzzles might work but I'm awful at those so I vote against it. What else ?

Modifié par Renmiri1, 19 avril 2013 - 02:35 .