295 réponses à ce sujet

[Dabrikishaw]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

As a side note though, Me3 did technically have a boss battle. IT was on rannoch, when you take down the reaper using the orbital strikes. Though I'm not sure how many people would count that, imo.

An excellent example of something very different. But the problem with something like that is, once you figure out the gimmick, it's a breeze. I suppose everything's that way, but in some cases it gets tedious.

There was also the scene with Eva's escape, where you had to chase her down and stop her or a mission failure screen would pop up. Kai Leng's two fights were similarly "boss-fight-esque." 

ME3 had boss fights. But apparently they didn't mind being video gamey at those points in the game. 

You do realize the quote about something being too video gamey was talking about the illusive man right? And how they didn't want him to turn into this thing when you killed him.



I would call turning the illusive man into that just because you needed to uphold a stupid boss fight tradition very video gamey and unnessicary.

I would have found that far more preferable than what we got.

[Angrywolves]

Never played Dark Souls. shrugs. I preferred the combat in DAO. The DA 2 combat did feel too hectic and uncontrolled.

[Dabrikishaw]

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are strait up action RPGs, not like the CRPG Dragon Age series at all.

[Iakus]

bobobo878 wrote...
Am I the only one likes this design? If the game ended with a sequence in which a not-catalyst VI explains how the catalyst can be used to destroy the reapers, Shepard protects the core of the crucible from this thing until it gets fully charged, and then proceeds to a MEHEM style ending, and a series of slides explaining how Shepard's actions will affect the post-Reaper galaxy, I would have been fully satisfied. As far as boss designs go, that one actually looks pretty boss.  At least it's not another one of those "protagonist on a giant floating table being pounded on by a disembodied torso" boss fights like you had in ME2, Diablo 3, etc...

What you described changes far more than simply adding a boss fight, though.  

I mean would ME3's ending have been any better if it was unchanged save for a boss fight with TIM?

[ObserverStatus]

iakus wrote...
What you described changes far more than simply adding a boss fight, though.  
I mean would ME3's ending have been any better if it was unchanged save for a boss fight with TIM?

A boss fight would have been fun, but the ending still would have ruined it if left unchanged, just like it ruined the rest of the game.

Modifié par bobobo878, 19 avril 2013 - 07:25 .

[Iakus]

bobobo878 wrote...

iakus wrote...
What you described changes far more than simply adding a boss fight, though.  
I mean would ME3's ending have been any better if it was unchanged save for a boss fight with TIM?

A boss fight would have been fun, but the ending still would have ruined it if left unchanged, just like it ruined the rest of the game.

Precisely.  A boss fight might or might not fit a given situation, but it won't make a bad ending good.  Or even improve a bad ending much.    

[ObserverStatus]

iakus wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

iakus wrote...
What you described changes far more than simply adding a boss fight, though.  
I mean would ME3's ending have been any better if it was unchanged save for a boss fight with TIM?

A boss fight would have been fun, but the ending still would have ruined it if left unchanged, just like it ruined the rest of the game.

Precisely.  A boss fight might or might not fit a given situation, but it won't make a bad ending good.  Or even improve a bad ending much.    

I was just saying that it could have been an effective *component* of a good ending.

[Twisted Path]

Boss fights are fine when done well and with Bioware there seems to be this weird pattern of throwing things out when people complain about them instead of just trying to iron the mechanics and make the feature work better.

I will say that in RPGs I prefer boss fights where the boss follows the basic rules of the game. You've been fighting level 2 guys through the dungeon and then bam! you run into a level 5 guy who has a potion of heal and has taken some other Batman-style precautions. That works a lot better for me then elaborate scripted events where the boss becomes invincible and drops a wave of mooks on you or changes shape or whatever.

[cJohnOne]

I liked the Boss fights in DA2 and DAO except for the Arishok which I can't do unless I'm a warrior on casual. Bosses add excitment and are a little scarry. Something you can't kill quicklly. This makes them more dangerous.

I think these boss fight were quite well done. It could have been worse. I'm sure.

Having Elites and bosses breaks up the sameness in oponentes. You need more things that are interesting and not less.

Modifié par cJohnOne, 19 avril 2013 - 08:13 .

[Iakus]

bobobo878 wrote...
I was just saying that it could have been an effective *component* of a good ending.

No particular disagreement there.  A boss fight when it's appropriate is cool.  But a boss fight just for a boss fight is just tedious.

And that doesn't even speak of what the fight mechanics are.

[Renmiri1]

I also love that you have to gear up, level and acquire talents to be able to pass the hurdle of the boss fight. It makes me pace myself better and enjoy the game while getting ready to fight the boss.

On Zelda Occarina of Time, the last boss was a pain. But thanks to it being such a pain, I had to go back and forth gathering arrows, hearts (HP) and gear and in the process exploring all the huge world that was there. It made me appreciate the game a lot more.

[sickpixie]

Zarathiel wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

The Woldan wrote...

I remember Baldur's Gate 2 had a handful of battles where we were fighting another group of adventurers with equal equipment, armor and spells than the players party (Temple district - sewers, temple district guarded compound, Windspeer hills dungeon to name a few encounters. )
Those were by far the most challenging and entertaining battles in the whole game, even better than fighting dragons and I really missed them in Dragon Age Origins & II .

And the loot....  

You mean like when you fight your double(s) in DA:O at the Urn of Sacred Ashes?

There's also that group of adventurers you run into during one of the Mage Collective quests. You don't have to fight them, and they aren't really a boss fight, though.

Additionally there are the four group matches in the Orzammar Provings.

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

I want boss fights, but I want them to have purpose - DAII's final fight was one of its bad points, it lacked impact IMO and felt random - it didn't feel well enough worked into the story. The other fights were great.

[Dabrikishaw]

My only issue with DA2's final boss was that you had to fight both Meredith and Orsino regardless of which side you pick.

[JediHealerCosmin]

Bosses can be fun if designed properly.

To quote Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation "they are a final exam for everything we have learned up to that point" (may have paraphrased it a bit).

It's sad that some devs resort to QTEs for the finale, which should be challenging and fun.
Sad example is Halo 4.

A Final Fantasy game on the old SNES systems had around 20+ bosses each with different strategies and weaknesess. I don't know if programming was easier back then, but those encounters put a lot of current games to shame.

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...

The arishok fight works OK if you dodge a little bit to the side/behind, rather than doing the running away thing. And you've got enough hit points that you won't be one shotted by his impale thingy. But it's not very intuitive that this is what you're supposed to do.

Not if you want to have a nightmare viable build. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Wulfram wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Ugh, no... Not a fan. There was no sense of accomplishment at all. The last wave wasn't even difficult, or anything we hadn't seen a dozen times before. Not to say a boss battle would have made anything better or worse, but the entire encounter design from the second Priority Earth started was poor at best, terrible at worst. 

The last wave is a fair bit more than we've faced in SP before and has a Reaper shooting at us in addition.  Overall I'm not keen on Priority Earth at all, but I think the bit where you're defending the artillery is fine.  Aside from some story based quibbles about "Thanix Missiles", anyway.

Stuff in the higher levels of MP makes it seem like rather small beer, but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.

I found that fight to be pretty intense myself actually, and when I was starting to get overwhelmed but realized I could use the Reaper's beam against the Banshee's it added to the scene.

For me it was an "Alamo" type of scene, which I often enjoy (one of my favourites is Pavlov's House in the first Call of Duty).

[jkflipflopDAO]

Dabrikishaw wrote...

My only issue with DA2's final boss was that you had to fight both Meredith and Orsino regardless of which side you pick.

I agree with this. It really made no sense that Orsinio freaks out considering his biggest supporter and most powerful mage in the city just rolled in and said  "I'm here to help you!"

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Ugh, no... Not a fan. There was no sense of accomplishment at all. The last wave wasn't even difficult, or anything we hadn't seen a dozen times before. Not to say a boss battle would have made anything better or worse, but the entire encounter design from the second Priority Earth started was poor at best, terrible at worst. 

The last wave is a fair bit more than we've faced in SP before and has a Reaper shooting at us in addition.  Overall I'm not keen on Priority Earth at all, but I think the bit where you're defending the artillery is fine.  Aside from some story based quibbles about "Thanix Missiles", anyway.

Stuff in the higher levels of MP makes it seem like rather small beer, but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.

I found that fight to be pretty intense myself actually, and when I was starting to get overwhelmed but realized I could use the Reaper's beam against the Banshee's it added to the scene.

For me it was an "Alamo" type of scene, which I often enjoy (one of my favourites is Pavlov's House in the first Call of Duty).

lol, I laughed so hard in the battle it nearly killed my character, all you need to do is stay near the truck that fires the rockets and let the reaper kill everyone.

[Cainhurst Crow]

DinoSteve wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Ugh, no... Not a fan. There was no sense of accomplishment at all. The last wave wasn't even difficult, or anything we hadn't seen a dozen times before. Not to say a boss battle would have made anything better or worse, but the entire encounter design from the second Priority Earth started was poor at best, terrible at worst. 

The last wave is a fair bit more than we've faced in SP before and has a Reaper shooting at us in addition.  Overall I'm not keen on Priority Earth at all, but I think the bit where you're defending the artillery is fine.  Aside from some story based quibbles about "Thanix Missiles", anyway.

Stuff in the higher levels of MP makes it seem like rather small beer, but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.

I found that fight to be pretty intense myself actually, and when I was starting to get overwhelmed but realized I could use the Reaper's beam against the Banshee's it added to the scene.

For me it was an "Alamo" type of scene, which I often enjoy (one of my favourites is Pavlov's House in the first Call of Duty).

lol, I laughed so hard in the battle it nearly killed my character, all you need to do is stay near the truck that fires the rockets and let the reaper kill everyone.

The beam kills the banshees as well?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 20 avril 2013 - 01:28 .

[Mike 9987]

Oh, god forbid a video game be videogamey. Also, we should stop movies having conclusive endings, you know because that's to movie.....ey.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Ugh, no... Not a fan. There was no sense of accomplishment at all. The last wave wasn't even difficult, or anything we hadn't seen a dozen times before. Not to say a boss battle would have made anything better or worse, but the entire encounter design from the second Priority Earth started was poor at best, terrible at worst. 

The last wave is a fair bit more than we've faced in SP before and has a Reaper shooting at us in addition.  Overall I'm not keen on Priority Earth at all, but I think the bit where you're defending the artillery is fine.  Aside from some story based quibbles about "Thanix Missiles", anyway.

Stuff in the higher levels of MP makes it seem like rather small beer, but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.

I found that fight to be pretty intense myself actually, and when I was starting to get overwhelmed but realized I could use the Reaper's beam against the Banshee's it added to the scene.

For me it was an "Alamo" type of scene, which I often enjoy (one of my favourites is Pavlov's House in the first Call of Duty).

lol, I laughed so hard in the battle it nearly killed my character, all you need to do is stay near the truck that fires the rockets and let the reaper kill everyone.

The beam kills the banshees as well?

Well I played on insanity and just kept attracting them to where a beam would hit, and it kept killing them. When playing on insanity I barely even fired at them tbh because it was pointless.

[frostajulie]

Dabrikishaw wrote...

Saying something is too video gamey in a video game is incredibly stupid. That mindset is half the problem with modern video games.

THANK YOU.

[Boycott Bioware]

There is a difference between final battle and boss fight, i prefer final battle over boss fight.

DA:O handle it fine, we have our party members and allies we collect earlier, the enemy consist the big monster boss and the lackeys. We can call our allies to handle the lackeys, while the same time we using balistas and then focus on the boss

Boss fight is like in KotOR where we have to face the overpowered and coward Darth Malak, he run here and there sucking the dead Jedis life force to replenish hit points, it is annoying. All we have to do is fight him and destroy his "food"

DA2 boss fight is worse, we have a super saiya Meredith and the walking statues. All we have is our companions and some NPCs to assist. The battle is just spam whatever power we have at the statues and then gang bang Meredith.

Big boss always being a single super powered bad guy is a cliche and overused.

Oblivion handle it differently, we do not kill Mehrune Dagon, but Martin Septim did. We only assist him to the point where he use the Amulet of King to transform into a dragon then watch the movie...the personal character is not a hero at all just a support character lol