178 réponses à ce sujet

[Great_Horn]

Can someone plz explain what was so wrong with da2 combat?

Sure. However, It´s of course a matter of taste

DA:2:[*]·        Friendly fire only on Nightmare difficulty. To me the only setting I can play the game![*]·        100 Percent resistance for certain attacks on nightmare difficulty. [*]·        Nightmare difficulty unbalanced and at some points unfair.[*]·        On the lower settings you don’t need any cross-class combos! The rest of your companions do the job![*]·        The whole combat system has a hack&slash feeling.
[*]·        The animations were over to top. Exploding bodies, teleporting mages, barefoot elfs, rogues in hot pants.
[*]·        Wave system. Ridiculous. You probably killed more Raiders in DA:2 than in Fallout 1+2![*]·        No skills-system, therefore no possibility for non-violent solutions (persuasion, intimidation).[*]·        No isometric view.
[*]·        Without tactical view you can’t place spells or abilities (AoE) in DA:2 properly.

• Even with the patches it locks on enemy/companions cluster. (On nightmare difficulty very important).

• Boss battles on nightmare difficulty literally took ages.    

• No wapon swap hotkey in UI.

[*]·        class restrictions. For example, no sword use for rogues, even if PC has the stats. [*]·        Without the trap making skill, less variety in combat.[*]·        Think like a general, fight like a Spartan. Well, in the end you only need to use a tank to cluster the enemy long enough so you can finish them with your ranged party members.

• If this doesn’t help you simply have to run away. I´m looking at you Arishok.

[*]·        No full party customisation![*]·        Talking about encounters: Darkspawn redesign horrible.

• Most guards in DA:2 remind me of the cylons from battlestar galactica.

Modifié par Great_Horn, 21 avril 2013 - 08:44 .

[Solmanian]

Sign me up for the "repetative and over the top" section of the complaints.

[Karlone123]

^^^That is one thing that I disliked was no ability to duel wield swords, and no crossbows to use.

[RosaAquafire]

DA2's combat was fun as hell but also immensely flawed at release. But post the big patch (1.03?), it's literally flawless save for the waves which are still unfixably terrible. I love the aesthetic, the speed, the fact that playing a 2H Warrior is fun instead of ponderously boring -- sorry, I don't get off on watching my character's epic five year journey of slowly swinging that goddamn thing, DA:O style. 2Handers in that game are a unique form of torture, and a litmus test for how big a nerd you are.

[13Dannyboy13]

Solmanian wrote...

Sign me up for the "repetative and over the top" section of the complaints.

Yeah, pretty much the same thing over and over. Very little strategy overall, customization was removed for companions, weapon choices were limited. I liked origins because you actually had to think about the fights, spells like sleep actually lasted, enemies were tougher. DA2 just had a really dumbed down feel to it, it felt very rushed and lacked the depth of origins. Hopefully DA3 will add back some of that strategy instead of mindless tapping the A button until the enemies were dead.

[Uccio]

Angrywolves wrote...

I don't they changed DA 2 's combat from DAO because of fans complaints . I believe it's part of their inclination to shift away from a traditional rpg to more of an action rpg feel. They've been doing the same thing with ME and it's counterproductive but they seem determined to continue that course.

Smells like it. Also the reason why I dropped ME series after ME2. Just don´t want another pew pew game.

[Vilegrim]

I hated the invisible teleporting rogues, the arm flailing weapon moves, the MMO type ability spam.

DA:O had people move with weapons in a believable way, (ok the shuffling was slightly off, but far better than Olympic grade long jumping not being met with something pointy somewhere squishy)

[jaydip1985]

And add insult to the injury they introduced Talis to infuriate the rogues, if only my rogue had moves like that among other things the hold position command was almost worthless in DA2 and screwed up tactics.

[Wissenschaft]

well, they got ride of the 100 Percent resistance, its now capped at 95% lol. Big difference I know....

Still, I love DA 2 combat. I just want a grander story with more variety of areas and I'll be sold with DA 2.

To me, DA 2 combat is the same as DA:O, just sped up and more flashy. DA:O was just as repetive. Have people forgoten the Circle Tower or Dead Roads? 

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 22 avril 2013 - 08:27 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Renmiri1 wrote...

So much is happening at once

Also known as "the heat of battle", "the fog of war", etc.. No enemy EVER will let you stop get your bearings, fill your potions stock, rune, enchant, repair stuff, heal allies... 

Pausing during battle =/= Realistic Battles

DAO was completely immersion breaking to me as are all turn based combat games and any game that allows pausing right before or during battle.

Thank heavens both DAO and DA2 let me turn that **** off!

One of the things I will agree that DA;2 did right was the general feel of battle. It was much faster paced and players would have to usually think fast in order to react (If you don't use pause). That is how a real battle feels. I still stick by my thing about 2 handed weapons though. I don't care HOW strong you are or how much adrenaline you've got pumping through you, it is not physically possible to do half the **** Fenris and Carver did. Not without EXTREME physical strains on you.

The only problem with that of course is that it is essentially button mashing in a game, not true tactics. Most DA2 players I've seen just hit em' with everything they've got and hope for the best. In Origins, I used Stealth to have a rogue sneak ahead, get the general layout of the room and the enemies and then set up traps and such before sending the rest of my party in. That felt like tactics to me.

I don't know. It's very difficult to mix true battle feel with true tactics in video games. And I'm probably the last person to really ask about it.

[KiwiQuiche]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

DA2 was too button mashy. In general.

Go to options and change the damn settings, problem solved. You will no longer have to tap the same button to continuously attack.

yeah,but the auto attack in DA2 just didn't feel right.Plus watching the same damn repetitive over the top auto attack animation over and over again,without you pushing a button became a real bore.

You do realize that the auto attack animation in DAO was just as boring, right?

You do realize what your doing makes you extremely annoying and also makes you look like a troll!...you do realize this right

So I'm a troll for pointing out something incredibly obvious?

Stay classy, BSN.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 23 avril 2013 - 12:18 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

It did? When? Or do you mean, by "carefully selecting" do you mean "pick all the mages"? 

Fireball. Fireball. Cone of Cold. Cone of Cold. Fireball. Fireball. #everydaoecounterever

While this does work for nearly every DAO encounter (though you'd be better off just using archers against the Broodmother), DAO grants a wider variety of viable tactics.

There are more ways to win in DAO.  A 3 mage party can do vastly more different kinds of things in DAO than it can in DA2.  Mages in DA2 are far less good at crowd control, for example.  DAO's mage design offered the player tremendous tactical flexibility that the DA2 mage does not.

[XX-Pyro]

In terms of difficulty, DA2 was harder than DAO. Wave combat was done in a sloppy manner and that held the combat system back. A positive to the system was that it was a lot more balanced than Origins combat, so it was tougher to completely overpower (or underpower) yourself. The combat was a little too fast though, a step up from Origins would be nice but DA2 was about 3 steps too many in terms of speed and animations.

Besides that, there was nothing wrong with the combat OP. It was the exact same as in DAO.

[schalafi]

I just wonder what sadistic dev decided to make some skeletons practically invulnerable, even with 4 party members hacking away at them? Was that supposed to make the fighting more enjoyable, or just frustrating?

[Enigmatick]

schalafi wrote...

I just wonder what sadistic dev decided to make some skeletons practically invulnerable

What game were playing? Those skeletons died in a snap on every difficulty 

[SafetyShattered]

JCAP wrote...

DA:O forced us to be very picky and carefull when seleting party, and the combat forced us to use different strategies, your brain was always working.

DA:2 - Varric, Anders, Aveline/Fenris, kill, next one, kill, next one, kill, Anders heal here please, kill, next one, kill, Anders would you kindly heal here?, kill...

Maybe I am being a little unfair, but the fact is, DA2 just wasn't challeging as DA:O. And the waves of enemies turned it more frustrating than anything else

Pretty much this...plus the whole enemies falling from the sky freaking pissed me off.

[craigdolphin]

For me, the change in encounter design was the biggest issue...exacerbated by the wave mechanic.

I preferred the slightly more 'realistic' feel of encoutners in DAO vs DA2. A few powerful heroes versus a slightly higher number of fairly tough bad guys was a nice baalance that still preserved a modicum of believability. The slower pace of animations helped sell that concepts like intertia and momentum also exist in Thedas. And the tactical camera allowed you to place AOE spells etc much more easily. The combat just felt like it had real heft and it represented a struggle against tough opponents.

Da2 changed all of that. Instead we got vast (ridiculous) numbers of opponents that, as individuals, were mostly pathetic one or two-shot trash mobs. So the feeling of the encounter was completely different. It felt like a cartoon (in the bad sense) which detracted from my ability to suspend disbelief. It begs the question as to why exactly people in Thedas are afraid of darkspawn when one human can despatch a dozen of the suckers without raising a sweat? Seems to me the dwarves could cleanse the deep roads with a good size raiding party of 50 or so based on the ease with which my party of four managed. The over-fast animations and acrobatic nonsense (cartwheel in place, I dare you to try it) just made this issue feel even worse. The lack of a tactical camera made placing AOE spells frustrating. And yes, the waves, their mid-air spawning points, and the resulting pointlessness of positional tactics for youre party were horrible. I also hated the healing potion limitation since it pretty much forced be to use a healer mage in my party (which meant using Anders whom I detested since they also saw fit to prevent other mages from having the ability to heal).

The only thing DA2 did /better/ in combat, in my view, is that you were able to evade Ogre charges when you saw them coming in time.

[Sylvius the Mad]

XX-Pyro wrote...

In terms of difficulty, DA2 was harder than DAO.

Only on Nightmare.  On all other settings, DAO was more difficult.

[MerinTB]

Any game where the combat revolves around gimmicky "gaming the mechanics" ways of fighting, like opening and closing doors (the biggest negative for Legend of Grimrock, an otherwise amazing game) between swings, or running around in circles like a rodeo clown, or timing against the repetitive and predictable AI of your enemy, is terrible IMO.

Yes, DA:O had it's share of some of this combat - being able to fire spells into rooms that your view let you see into but that the enemies couldn't see you being the biggest one. But it wasn't nearly as bad as DA2.

I hate actiony combat where the trick to winning is kiting, or sprinting in zigzags while waiting for your endurance to recharge (you know, cause sprinting is a good way to rest.) Hopping like a coked-out rabbit to avoid enemy fire. All that kind of stuff is really not my cup of tea.

Bottlenecks are fine. Hiding around corners or forcing enemies single-file through doorways, also fine. Having your archer fall back while your warrior moves in to intercept a charging enemy, also fine. Anything that seems like representations of realistic tactics works.

But bouncing like your Chuck Taine? No. Doing figure eights while tossing off spells or firing arrows? No. Your enemy rinsing and repeating the "charge, hit wall, be stunned, do area attack, catch breath" cycle endlessly so you time your attacks to it's Swiss clock precision pattern? No.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

In terms of difficulty, DA2 was harder than DAO.

Only on Nightmare.  On all other settings, DAO was more difficult.

And that was largely due to the random elemental resistances/immunities DA2 threw into the mix. In that, you were battling the mechanics and the design, not the enemies. 

[EdwinLi]

I found mage combat to be a improvement in Da2 than the plain and simple bland point the head of a stick to shoot a weak ball of element at the enemy 24 7 animation.

The new attack animation for Mage was a improvement in my view

Sadly they weaken the value of having a dual weapon Rogue because of the change of Backstab into a normal skill.

Modifié par EdwinLi, 23 avril 2013 - 08:20 .

[Iosev]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And that was largely due to the random elemental resistances/immunities DA2 threw into the mix. In that, you were battling the mechanics and the design, not the enemies. 

It was also due to friendy fire, which unfortunately was only found on Nightmare in Dragon Age 2.  Ironically, despite Dragon Age: Origins having friendly fire on more than one difficulty setting, you could easily play through the entire game without using friendly fire-related abilities, nullifying the challenge of that aspect of gameplay (whereas friendly fire in DA 2 was much more pervasive in gameplay).

Dragon Age 2 on Nightmare also required the player to utilize cross-class combinations (something that sadly wasn't necessary on the lower levels), as well as other aspects, such as knocking enemy rogues out of stealth.

I think both DA:O and DA 2 had their positives and negatives, and rather than favoring one over the other, I would rather Bioware continue to refine this aspect of the franchise.

Modifié par arcelonious, 23 avril 2013 - 08:22 .

[Vaeliorin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...
In terms of difficulty, DA2 was harder than DAO.

Only on Nightmare.  On all other settings, DAO was more difficult.

While DA2 had some encounters that were more difficult, I'd actually say overall it was easier than DA once you figured out that there were basically only three types of enemies and what the appropriate counters were. That lack of enemy variety, to me, was perhaps the biggest flaw with DA2 combat.

I also felt that there were a lot fewer useful abilities in DA2, which made the combat somewhat boring in that I was often waiting on cooldowns or just using short duration buffs. Perhaps this wasn't true for every spec, but I certainly found it to be so on my archer and my mage. My mage in DA had almost a full hotbar of abilities, while in DA2 I only ended up with maybe 6 or 7.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And that was largely due to the random elemental resistances/immunities DA2 threw into the mix. In that, you were battling the mechanics and the design, not the enemies.

Also, the lack of friendly fire on any setting but Nightmare made DA2 combat quite a bit easier to manage.

[Korusus]

All I know about Dragon Age 2's combat is that....well...when you push a button, something awesome HAS to happen...BUTTON AWESOME.

I'll settle for my isometric camera being given back to me. Everything else about DA2's combat was just a never-ending wave of mobs to pad out the length of the game.