illusionist or enchanter for Swash/Wiz/EKnight?
#26
Guest_distinguetraces_*
Posté 25 avril 2013 - 02:16
Guest_distinguetraces_*
#27
Posté 25 avril 2013 - 02:54
distinguetraces wrote...
I don't want to hack, but my dilemma now is whether to just forget about the enchantments and be the best light-weapon melee dude I can without Illusion spells (which would mean accepting that the Spell Focus feat I've already devoted to enchantment was just wasted) or go all-in on enchantment with the upgrades to Spell Focus and some levels of Red Wizard after I finish Eldritch Knight (and THAT would mean missing out on my Two-Weapon defense feats and also a couple of points of INT).
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I think the first choice (best light weapon dude) is off the table for you. To make an EK work as an offensive force you have to have the defensive buffs and the offensive feats (two weapon defense is a wasted Feat progression with a melee EK build because your enemies will never hit you in the first place).
Without Illusion, you are simply gimped as a melee EK. Plus you've burned a spell focus feat on Enchantment.
If it were me, I'd keep going down the Enchantment route. But I would basically give up on being a melee character. I'd turn yourself into a full-fledged Enchantment caster.
#28
Posté 25 avril 2013 - 03:10
Arkalezth wrote...
I disagree with CF about control casters. Yes, just buffing and hacking stuff is simple and it tends to work just fine (and it's what I do mostly), but a controller, while it may not be everyone's cup of tea, is perfectly viable and effective, and sometimes it can make some otherwise hard fights a cakewalk. You just need a different playstyle.
A Controller is only effective, however, if you totally commit to it in AD&D. I would agree with that - if you commit to playing a full-on enchanter and adding all the focus feats, etc, you can do some CC. But it's still more difficult than in other worlds.
The biggest problem with a lot of enchantment/CC spells in the AD&D universe is that getting one to stick - even with feats - is unreliable (and when you're "relying" on CC as part of your team's battle strategy, that sucks).
Take a typically enchantment spell like Dominate Person. A Will save negates it *if* you can get by the character's Spell Resistance. You have to effectively pass two checks to get this spell to work. A LOT of enchantment spells are like that which makes them hard to justify memorizing them when you have other spells at your disposal that might be more reliable.
This is the one area where I feel like Dragon Age got it right. Force Field *just works* every time. It's limited in it's use - there's a refresh timer so you can only use it once per minute. But it works. It's an effective, reliable CC mechanism.
With regards to EK, that guide you pointed to agrees with me:
Increased hit dice, base attack progression, and free Skill Focus (Concentration) is not worth the loss of a caster level, potentially more, and a feat towards Martial Weapon Proficiency that could be spent elsewhere. It is good for gish-style builds, but the Overlord is not a gish.
If you're not using the EK class for it's purpose, then you're wasting a Wizard build. Wizards - especially specialist wizards - are darn powerful. But you have to commit to them fully, every level, and not waste levels on other classes. The power of a specialist wizard comes from devoting 100% to ones specialization.
You're a squishy. But you're an awesome squishy.
#29
Posté 25 avril 2013 - 03:47
I've said many times that I prefer DAO's gameplay in general, and I don't play many "overlords" (using that guide's term) myself, but it's doable. However, in the case of the OP's current build... likely not.
#30
Posté 25 avril 2013 - 04:46
Arkalezth wrote...
You have to commit to it, but what's the problem? It's the same for many other character types.
Oh I totally agree!
AD&D rules are the double-edged sword to me (and I like that!). There is enough variety in spells, feats, skills and classes to really imagine anything you want. And with an easy campaign like the OC, playing a gimped build for RP/fun purposes is viable.
But as with all double-edged swords, it's dreadfully easy to gimp yourself as well.
Figuring out what to commit to is often the biggest issue. There's so many awesome builds I want to play! How do I, the player, figure out which one to play? Maybe I can play more than one by adding a dash of this class to that class and... ooops, gimped! LOL...
I loved Dragon Age and felt they got a lot of stuff "right", but when it came time to build my own campaign, I wanted the AD&D rules because I just like them better, in the end. More spells, more classes, more combinations...
But yeah - you gotta commit to a build if you want to realize its full power.





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