196 réponses à ce sujet

[DesioPL]

Buff N7 Shadow please! Ouch wait... no more balances, right...

Seriously... N7 Shadow is my favorite character, but is also the worst infiltrator in the game. I don't think use this character anymore.

[ka243]

Very fun with bonus power and duration cloak. Anyone who thinks shadow sucks and hasnt tried this really should. Cloak > ss > ss > win, much faster than cloak > ss > cloak...
 I run 3 in es and 5 in fitness cause lastrank doesnt help ss.

eslash is quite useful for escorts

Modifié par ka243, 22 avril 2013 - 07:02 .

[CardboredSquare]

What I wanna know is why does she have sniper rifle damage evo instead of a shotgun/pistol? She's obviously not a sniper.

[FlowCytometry]

Zjarcal wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

What cooldown, it's an infiltrator. 

If you're going for the bonus power/duration build and want to do two SS in quick succession as fast as possible (or ES after SS, whatever), yes, cooldown does matter for her.

P.S.: I'm NOT arguing about the efficiency of said build, just how it's a case where cooldown does matter.

well, keep in mind ya don't always have a 2nd target to SS immediately after the 1st one. Heck, sometimes its better to run around a lil first so they have less chance of detecting you, or to wait to a acquire a farther target if ur in the middle of a large group that ya dun wanna reveal to. Ya can always replace the 2nd SS w/ a melee combo (or just headshot em) if ur impatient and a nearby mob is weak enough.

[jupitersj]

She is a cool concept, but doesn't scale well in her intentional build if you're going for speedy matches.

[Miniditka77]

ka243 wrote...

Very fun with bonus power and duration cloak. Anyone who thinks shadow sucks and hasnt tried this really should. Cloak > ss > ss > win, much faster than cloak > ss > cloak...
 I run 3 in es and 5 in fitness cause last rank doesnt help ss.

eslash is quite useful for escorts

Uh.... they fixed this a while ago.  Flame Sword is now one of the best things you can do for SS, and it makes the Shadow decently effective against all boss enemies except Atlases and Praetorians.

I always take ES R3 for escorts and hacks, and also for softening up groups of enemies.  With Bonus Power, you can fire a SS into a group of mooks, which is a great setup for the barrage of shotgun fire that is going to follow.

[snarf001]

Shadow is just...broken, in a bad way

She is more suited for thining out mooks spread across the map but is probably the worst character for boss units.

[Original Twigman]

Deerber wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Its like saying "Twigman is the worst spectre in the group"

but the worst spectre is a hell of a lot better than most of the playerbase

Sure. And also a hell of a lot better than 50% of the rest of bsn...

id put money on a significantly bigger % than that

Definite "significant": If significantly more means 70-80% then you might be right. If it means 95% you've found someone to bet with.

i think ur assessment is correct. i was thinking in the 70-80 range (still 20-30%)

if we had a good way to make a sample test to prove this theory, i would love to bet on the 85-95% range. Haha, sounds like it would be fun to either see, or test.

[Original Twigman]

This is kind of a silly debate

1) you have people saying she is the worst infiltrator.... compared to who and what kind of infiltrator?

If you strap a shotgun or talon to your infiltrator, then the QI and the Base Human inilftrators are not as good as the Shadow.

Why? Because:

A) She has TC, which has the damage evo, which people tend to forget. If she has the damage evo, then a shotgun will do as much damage as any other infiltrator (save for the AIU).

She gets speed bonuses. a 10% speed bonus is more important for a shotgun infiltrator, therefore makes her better than the QI and Base Infil here.

C) Claymore + SS out of a damage cloak = 2 extremely high powered damage sources (if you can get the SS within 2.5 sec. This also automatically reloads your claymore, so you can get

so you get 1)Claymore out of Damage cloak, 2) SS out of damage cloak (sometimes), and 3) Another claymore shot, all within a few seconds.

D) SS and ES give her more crowd control/versatility than a QI/Base human.

2) Bonus Power/SS/Duration Shadow Infiltrator is noob stuff, people. Its a FOOs strategy on a kit that can evolve from it.
Take damage on TC and she can beat out some of her Infiltrator counterparts.

She can carry a BIG gun... use it.

Duration/BonusPower/SS Shadow Infiltrator is the worst infiltrator in the game.

Modifié par Original Stikman, 22 avril 2013 - 07:34 .

[Deerber]

Original Stikman wrote...

i think ur assessment is correct. i was thinking in the 70-80 range (still 20-30%)

if we had a good way to make a sample test to prove this theory, i would love to bet on the 85-95% range. Haha, sounds like it would be fun to either see, or test.

Ha, I'm sure it would be fun. I would be down to do that, but I'm afraid there's no such thing as an objective indicator of skills in this game 

[ka243]

Miniditka77 wrote...

ka243 wrote...

Very fun with bonus power and duration cloak. Anyone who thinks shadow sucks and hasnt tried this really should. Cloak > ss > ss > win, much faster than cloak > ss > cloak...
 I run 3 in es and 5 in fitness cause last rank doesnt help ss.

eslash is quite useful for escorts

Uh.... they fixed this a while ago.  Flame Sword is now one of the best things you can do for SS, and it makes the Shadow decently effective against all boss enemies except Atlases and Praetorians.

I always take ES R3 for escorts and hacks, and also for softening up groups of enemies.  With Bonus Power, you can fire a SS into a group of mooks, which is a great setup for the barrage of shotgun fire that is going to follow.

really? Good to know.  I was using peddro's thread here as a reference... http://social.biowar...855086#13863413 was this part of a balance change? Patch?

[Deerber]

Original Stikman wrote...

This is kind of a silly debate

1) you have people saying she is the worst infiltrator.... compared to who and what kind of infiltrator?

If you strap a shotgun or talon to your infiltrator, then the QI and the Base Human inilftrators are not as good as the Shadow.

Why? Because:

A) She has TC, which has the damage evo, which people tend to forget. If she has the damage evo, then a shotgun will do as much damage as any other infiltrator (save for the AIU).

She gets speed bonuses. a 10% speed bonus is more important for a shotgun infiltrator, therefore makes her better than the QI and Base Infil here.

C) Claymore + SS out of a damage cloak = 2 extremely high powered damage sources (if you can get the SS within 2.5 sec. This also automatically reloads your claymore, so you can get

so you get 1)Claymore out of Damage cloak, 2) SS out of damage cloak (sometimes), and 3) Another claymore shot, all within a few seconds.

D) SS and ES give her more crowd control/versatility than a QI/Base human.

2) Bonus Power/SS/Duration Shadow Infiltrator is noob stuff, people. Its a FOOs strategy on a kit that can evolve from it.
Take damage on TC and she can beat out some of her Infiltrator counterparts.

She can carry a BIG gun... use it.

Duration/BonusPower/SS Shadow Infiltrator is the worst infiltrator in the game.

Totally agreed, nicely summed up. Well, the HI has a great debuff though, but the QFI doesn't.

I prefer to use a sniper on mine, but I can't say I have found my definitive place with her yet.

[Original Twigman]

Deerber wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

i think ur assessment is correct. i was thinking in the 70-80 range (still 20-30%)

if we had a good way to make a sample test to prove this theory, i would love to bet on the 85-95% range. Haha, sounds like it would be fun to either see, or test.

Ha, I'm sure it would be fun. I would be down to do that, but I'm afraid there's no such thing as an objective indicator of skills in this game 

I'd be willing to forego some rigid standards of testing to verify this. Like Taking "the worst spectre" and pinning them against a list of non-spectre BSNers.

would be fun... and possible cause drama:innocent:

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Things are going in a whole different direction, now. 

[Original Twigman]

Deerber wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

This is kind of a silly debate

1) you have people saying she is the worst infiltrator.... compared to who and what kind of infiltrator?

If you strap a shotgun or talon to your infiltrator, then the QI and the Base Human inilftrators are not as good as the Shadow.

Why? Because:

A) She has TC, which has the damage evo, which people tend to forget. If she has the damage evo, then a shotgun will do as much damage as any other infiltrator (save for the AIU).

She gets speed bonuses. a 10% speed bonus is more important for a shotgun infiltrator, therefore makes her better than the QI and Base Infil here.

C) Claymore + SS out of a damage cloak = 2 extremely high powered damage sources (if you can get the SS within 2.5 sec. This also automatically reloads your claymore, so you can get

so you get 1)Claymore out of Damage cloak, 2) SS out of damage cloak (sometimes), and 3) Another claymore shot, all within a few seconds.

D) SS and ES give her more crowd control/versatility than a QI/Base human.

2) Bonus Power/SS/Duration Shadow Infiltrator is noob stuff, people. Its a FOOs strategy on a kit that can evolve from it.
Take damage on TC and she can beat out some of her Infiltrator counterparts.

She can carry a BIG gun... use it.

Duration/BonusPower/SS Shadow Infiltrator is the worst infiltrator in the game.

Totally agreed, nicely summed up. Well, the HI has a great debuff though, but the QFI doesn't.

I prefer to use a sniper on mine, but I can't say I have found my definitive place with her yet.

considered the debuff for a second.... figured i would leave it out

the travel time/blend with a shotgun can cause some AIU like issues where CryoBlasting before the shot is fired can cause you to miss the damage boost from TC... I figured the speedbonus/availabilty to melee/CC of ES, and SS + claymore combo eclipses it a bit.

Hell, even as a sniper, if you take the damage boost for TC (Which you should be doing anyway), one of th emost versatile infil snipers due to her ability to make up for CQ with a melee or SS rather than a secondary weapon

[Deerber]

Original Stikman wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

i think ur assessment is correct. i was thinking in the 70-80 range (still 20-30%)

if we had a good way to make a sample test to prove this theory, i would love to bet on the 85-95% range. Haha, sounds like it would be fun to either see, or test.

Ha, I'm sure it would be fun. I would be down to do that, but I'm afraid there's no such thing as an objective indicator of skills in this game 

I'd be willing to forego some rigid standards of testing to verify this. Like Taking "the worst spectre" and pinning them against a list of non-spectre BSNers.

would be fun... and possible cause drama:innocent:

Yeah, but how do you pin someone against someone else in a co-op game? 

Original Stikman wrote...

Hell, even as a sniper, if you take the damage boost for TC (Which you should be doing anyway), one of th emost versatile infil snipers due to her ability to make up for CQ with a melee or SS rather than a secondary weapon

That's pretty much how I use her now. SS is my "oh ****!"/"I wanna get there NAO" button, with the added benefit of OHKing pretty much anything smaller than a ravager.

She's not great by any means, but she's definitely better than a SS centric build.

Modifié par Deerber, 22 avril 2013 - 07:45 .

[Original Twigman]

Deerber wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

i think ur assessment is correct. i was thinking in the 70-80 range (still 20-30%)

if we had a good way to make a sample test to prove this theory, i would love to bet on the 85-95% range. Haha, sounds like it would be fun to either see, or test.

Ha, I'm sure it would be fun. I would be down to do that, but I'm afraid there's no such thing as an objective indicator of skills in this game 

I'd be willing to forego some rigid standards of testing to verify this. Like Taking "the worst spectre" and pinning them against a list of non-spectre BSNers.

would be fun... and possible cause drama:innocent:

Yeah, but how do you pin someone against someone else in a co-op game? 

Modifié par Original Stikman, 22 avril 2013 - 07:46 .

[Deerber]

Original Stikman wrote...

Haha I knew where this was going all along! 

[sandboxgod]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

What cooldown, it's an infiltrator. 

Everybody has cooldown. My SS Cooldown is two seconds. Faster SS is faster DPS. 

 

You SS out of cloak:?

A lot of n7 shadow builds might involve long duration + bonus power. This way, it's really, realy hard to die. 
So yeah, I totally disagree with this statement. Cooldown is pretty important for dual SS under cloak. 

[sandboxgod]

Original Stikman wrote...

This is kind of a silly debate

1) you have people saying she is the worst infiltrator.... compared to who and what kind of infiltrator?

If you strap a shotgun or talon to your infiltrator, then the QI and the Base Human inilftrators are not as good as the Shadow.

Why? Because:

A) She has TC, which has the damage evo, which people tend to forget. If she has the damage evo, then a shotgun will do as much damage as any other infiltrator (save for the AIU).

She gets speed bonuses. a 10% speed bonus is more important for a shotgun infiltrator, therefore makes her better than the QI and Base Infil here.

C) Claymore + SS out of a damage cloak = 2 extremely high powered damage sources (if you can get the SS within 2.5 sec. This also automatically reloads your claymore, so you can get

so you get 1)Claymore out of Damage cloak, 2) SS out of damage cloak (sometimes), and 3) Another claymore shot, all within a few seconds.

D) SS and ES give her more crowd control/versatility than a QI/Base human.

2) Bonus Power/SS/Duration Shadow Infiltrator is noob stuff, people. Its a FOOs strategy on a kit that can evolve from it.
Take damage on TC and she can beat out some of her Infiltrator counterparts.

She can carry a BIG gun... use it.

Duration/BonusPower/SS Shadow Infiltrator is the worst infiltrator in the game.

 

Interesting, but alas I enjoy running long duration cloak on her for the 12345 objectives, etc. W/o the long duration/bonus power build she might be abit too squishy for my taste. But perhaps I'll play around with it if i get a chance to fire up this game later

[doozerdude]

Her melee is really pathetic. Shadow Strike is one of the buggiest abilities next to Biotic Charge. Her only usefulness comes from Slash spam detonations.

[Original Twigman]

doozerdude wrote...

Her melee is really pathetic. Shadow Strike is one of the buggiest abilities next to Biotic Charge. Her only usefulness comes from Slash spam detonations.

biggest misconceptions are summarized right ^^^here about the shadow

Melee/SS/ES Spam are her sole outputs for damage...

she is an infiltrator with a big gun.... not a power spammer.

Edit: Sandboxgod, i edited my statement with the bolded (what was missing)

Modifié par Original Stikman, 22 avril 2013 - 08:06 .

[sandboxgod]

edit - @Dozerdude,

^^ Not sure what you mean? Her melee straight up decapitates dudes left & right on Gold+. I guess I dont suffer the SS bugs as bad as other folks since I've used her for a long time. I'm out of sight of my victim before I SS. So I don't get interrupted.

I never spec electric spam on her and do pretty well with her on platnium. Granted, I could do better with another infiltrator (like TGI, GI, etc) but I want to enjoy a little variety sometimes

Modifié par sandboxgod, 22 avril 2013 - 08:05 .

[FlowCytometry]

Erm, everythings better w/ shotties- esp the Dark Lord if we're going down that route. I luv the Claymore, but I ain't putting it on everything. Ya can likely kill as fast w/ the Claymore as ya could waiting out the SS anim anyway (or shorter, depending on lag), so what's the point aside from using it as teleport? (play DV, then ya can also spawn nuke).

HI will contribute more dmg to the team w/ CB's debuff, and FQI's TV debuff and Sabo itself are great in some cases. I'd rather have them as a teammate than a teleporting infil w/ a screen shake ability that can get herself killed even easier than a usual Shadow thanks to cheap enemy AI.

[Original Twigman]

FlowCytometry wrote...

Erm, everythings better w/ shotties- esp the Dark Lord if we're going down that route. I luv the Claymore, but I ain't putting it on everything. Ya can likely kill as fast w/ the Claymore as ya could waiting out the SS anim anyway (or shorter, depending on lag), so what's the point aside from using it as teleport? (play DV, then ya can also spawn nuke).

HI will contribute more dmg to the team w/ CB's debuff, and FQI's TV debuff and Sabo itself are great in some cases. I'd rather have them as a teammate than a teleporting infil w/ a screen shake ability that can get herself killed even easier than a usual Shadow thanks to cheap enemy AI.

Bolded: mostly wishful thinking with some preconceptions of "contribution"

Contribution to the team plays a smaller role in determining which character is better than another. Its not relevent.

Italicized: What does this even mean? "you love the claymore but ain't putting it on everything".... what does that have to do with determining which is better? nothing. crossing that out.

Underscore: i don't understand what you are saying.... what i think you are saying is "you can kill as fast just using the claymore, if not faster than using SS"

well.... yeah... when did i say you couldn't?

The point of SS/Claymore is that you can do this

TC + Claymore shot = kill one mook/elite enemy, this will take off TC (damage boost evo)
You can immediately SS before your cooldown prevents it and take out another enemy at the same time (which will be faster than reload canceling the claymore, especially depending on distance)
During your SS, your claymore automatically reloads and you can shoot again to take out another enemy...

thats 3 enemies within seconds... thats stupid good