307 réponses à ce sujet

[Fixers0]

AlanC9 wrote...

Heh. Didn't say what we got was any better. But putting a trial in front wouldn't have fixed anything. Trial or no, we'd still get the Reapers arriving, the training combat level, Shepard leaving Earth in the Normandy, etc.

Not if they'd revamped the opening in the way I'd like to see it, which primarily involes changes in context of what's happening outside Shepard's imidiate area, though i'd like to see some signifact changes to mission itself aswell, such as moving the trial to Arcturus station, the Captial of the Alliance, as well providing the possibilty to allow new shepards to account for previous decisions, to make it easier for the desingers to provide actual consquences to afore mentioned decisions.

[cljqnsnyc]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

 Love how there is no word of any critique that led to those DLCs. No words of the ending ****storm that brought the extended cut, nothing about Day-1-DLC and nothing about Omega being two hours of shooting up Cerberus.

Criticism doesn't exist in BioWare-land.

Truer words were never spoken. 

"Criticism? Oh, we've dismissed that claim." 

They completely dismissed ALL claims made against DA2. The ME3 controversy is no different. 

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 22 avril 2013 - 05:53 .

[Iakus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

 Love how there is no word of any critique that led to those DLCs. No words of the ending ****storm that brought the extended cut, nothing about Day-1-DLC and nothing about Omega being two hours of shooting up Cerberus.

Criticism doesn't exist in BioWare-land.

But they keep saying they listen to "positive feedback"

Which I guess means something like "You know what, sometimes you guys are a little too awesome" or "that character's bust size could use some enlargement"

[MassivelyEffective0730]

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

 Love how there is no word of any critique that led to those DLCs. No words of the ending ****storm that brought the extended cut, nothing about Day-1-DLC and nothing about Omega being two hours of shooting up Cerberus.

Criticism doesn't exist in BioWare-land.

But they keep saying they listen to "positive feedback"

Which I guess means something like "You know what, sometimes you guys are a little too awesome" or "that character's bust size could use some enlargement"

"We're listening"

I have no doubt you are - listening to the size of your ego inflating, maybe.

"We look at the fan feedback" 

And promptly dismiss most of it as noise and haters. Even the well constructed arguments and critiques are ignored for "Man that ending was awesome, you guys are awesome BW, you can do no wrong! And jumping into the beam? Sweet!"

[AlanC9]

Fixers0 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Heh. Didn't say what we got was any better. But putting a trial in front wouldn't have fixed anything. Trial or no, we'd still get the Reapers arriving, the training combat level, Shepard leaving Earth in the Normandy, etc.

Not if they'd revamped the opening in the way I'd like to see it, which primarily involes changes in context of what's happening outside Shepard's imidiate area, though i'd like to see some signifact changes to mission itself aswell, such as moving the trial to Arcturus station, the Captial of the Alliance, as well providing the possibilty to allow new shepards to account for previous decisions, to make it easier for the desingers to provide actual consquences to afore mentioned decisions.

I don't see how your proposal changes much except that we would avoid the derp moment where Shepard wants to stay on Earth. Though that is a serious plus. The obvious downside is that we would never see Earth until Priority: Earth (unless Normandy does a fly-by on the way to Mars, assuming the Archive's still there.)

Edit: I don't personally think that's a problem. In Wing Commander 3, if  you see Earth before the last five seconds of the game it means you're on the losing path, and that interstellar war works just fine. But we have seen an awful lot of posts complaining about how defending Earth doesn't feel emotionally compelling because we don't spend enough time wandering around it, or some such.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 avril 2013 - 07:07 .

[Mr.House]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

 Love how there is no word of any critique that led to those DLCs. No words of the ending ****storm that brought the extended cut, nothing about Day-1-DLC and nothing about Omega being two hours of shooting up Cerberus.

Criticism doesn't exist in BioWare-land.

Truer words were never spoken. 

"Criticism? Oh, we've dismissed that claim." 

They completely dismissed ALL claims made against DA2. The ME3 controversy is no different. 

*looks at CItadel dlc* YUp, they don't listen at all.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I'm actually rather shocked he never brought up the ending debacle, despite it being a direct reason for the production of the EC. Somehow Mike was able to discuss the EC without mentioning the ending once...

Interesting read, though. I especially liked how he described Citadel. Very much felt like a love letter indeed.

[cljqnsnyc]

Mr.House wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

 Love how there is no word of any critique that led to those DLCs. No words of the ending ****storm that brought the extended cut, nothing about Day-1-DLC and nothing about Omega being two hours of shooting up Cerberus.

Criticism doesn't exist in BioWare-land.

Truer words were never spoken. 

"Criticism? Oh, we've dismissed that claim." 

They completely dismissed ALL claims made against DA2. The ME3 controversy is no different. 

*looks at CItadel dlc* YUp, they don't listen at all.

I call that a case of trying to have your cake and eat it too. I LOVED "Citadel" ONLY because it works post game with MEHEM and the way I played Shep. Take away the mod and play  "Citadel"  just before one of 4 endings, and it becomes an entierly different animal...like careing for and fattening up your pet turkey all year just to end up center stage - table Thanksgiving Day. 

The point was and is Bioware would NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES admit that they made a mistake not including other options. They even said that TEC wasn't going to change the endings when it actually does...to some degree.

The exact same thing happened with DA2...almost identical. In fact, they even insulted some of the fans with their post release commentary about the reactions DA2 recieved!

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 22 avril 2013 - 07:40 .

[Fixers0]

AlanC9 wrote...

I don't see how your proposal changes much except that we would avoid the derp moment where Shepard wants to stay on Earth. Though that is a serious plus. The obvious downside is that we would never see Earth until Priority: Earth (unless Normandy does a fly-by on the way to Mars, assuming the Archive's still there.)

The Proposal of having a trial rather then a lackluster, moronic meeting with a defence committe is that it actuall makes for a meaningfull opening, New players informed of Shepard's history as well as given the option to make the major decisions while being questioned, while the import players are confronted with the impact of their choices on the Alliance and humanity, giveing them the importent feel of empowerment that I believe is important in RPGs.

[lovesnow]

you say we are amazing fans but no dlc for a rescue and then retired Shepard,you dont give a care thats the bottom line.

[Kunari801]

themikefest wrote...

I wonder if they were wanting to put more in the EC but were limited to the download size. And if they did, what more would they of added?

I wonder that too, I had hoped fro more out of the EC than we got. For one: I'd like to have seen more fleshed out Priority:Earth missions before the beam run. Use those MP Earth maps even. Maybe they needed Microsoft's permission but the "two-part-download" idea isn't that hard imagine. I don't know why it took until Citadel for them to use it. As a free DLC I'm sure they were limited on budget too.

Citadel is my favorite DLC, mainly becuase of the interations with the crew.  If only they'd considered the endings more and setup Citadel DLC as a post-ending DLC.  

[AlanC9]

Fixers0 wrote...


The Proposal of having a trial rather then a lackluster, moronic meeting with a defence committe is that it actuall makes for a meaningfull opening, New players informed of Shepard's history as well as given the option to make the major decisions while being questioned, while the import players are confronted with the impact of their choices on the Alliance and humanity, giveing them the importent feel of empowerment that I believe is important in RPGs.

I don't see the "meaningful" there. Obviously the trial in itself wasn't going to be meaningful, since Shepard wasn't going to be convicted.. or if he was, it would have stopped mattering that he was convicted about 30 seconds after the Reapers showed up.

I wouldn't have felt "empowered" by the trial, myself. I know what my characters did, why they did it, and what happened afterward. I always saw the trial as a pointless recap of stuff I already knew, and so far I've heard nothing to make me re-evaluate that opinion. What would have been empowering about it?

That leaves the new players. It'd be nice to actually have someone in the thread who started with ME3, rather than you and me debating what would have made a better experience for them.

[AlanC9]

Kunari801 wrote...
I wonder that too, I had hoped fro more out of the EC than we got. For one: I'd like to have seen more fleshed out Priority:Earth missions before the beam run. Use those MP Earth maps even. Maybe they needed Microsoft's permission but the "two-part-download" idea isn't that hard imagine.

From what I've seen from inside large corporations, imagining something and getting the approvals you need to actually do that something are two very different propositions.

[Jonathan Seagull]

Mr.House wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

 Love how there is no word of any critique that led to those DLCs. No words of the ending ****storm that brought the extended cut, nothing about Day-1-DLC and nothing about Omega being two hours of shooting up Cerberus.

Criticism doesn't exist in BioWare-land.

Truer words were never spoken. 

"Criticism? Oh, we've dismissed that claim." 

They completely dismissed ALL claims made against DA2. The ME3 controversy is no different. 

*looks at CItadel dlc* YUp, they don't listen at all.

And the DA2 DLC certainly didn't take into account players' (very valid) criticism of recycled areas and level design, or fighting the same enemies, or the implementation of wave combat, or not feeling a connection to Hawke.  Let alone the criticism of DA:O DLC in regards to your companions often lacking any meaningful presence.

Look, I can understand not being satisfied with how certain criticisms are addressed.  But this claim that BioWare just completely ignores all negative feedback strikes me as disingenuous, to say the least.

[crimzontearz]

Uhhhhhhhhhh

Sooooo if from ashes was written after certification send out WHY was the prothean in the original script leak?

Also....EC bittage size limit? UHHHHH you guys made SINGLE IMAGES SLIDESHOWS into movies that ate up insane space W....T....F?

[AlanC9]

crimzontearz wrote...

Sooooo if from ashes was written after certification send out WHY was the prothean in the original script leak?

Were all his lines in the script leak? I keep asking people to give me a link to that version; the only copies I can find don't have any of his convos. Or the Guardian's lines, which I'm more interested in.

[crimzontearz]

AlanC9 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Sooooo if from ashes was written after certification send out WHY was the prothean in the original script leak?

Were all his lines in the script leak? I keep asking people to give me a link to that version; the only copies I can find don't have any of his convos. Or the Guardian's lines, which I'm more interested in.

I am not talking about conversation but merely presence and relevance

[AlanC9]

Well, in that case, presence, sure. But his relevance was completely changed..... by reducing it to just about zero.

And so they put off writing him until later, because they didn't need his lines until later. Nothing mysterious about it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 avril 2013 - 11:11 .

[crimzontearz]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, in that case, presence, sure. But his relevance was completely changed..... by reducing it to just about zero.

And so they put off writing him until later, because they didn't need his lines until later. Nothing mysterious about it.

I Am arguing about Bioware working on him prior of certification send out  not about how it was modified to be day 0 dlc

[crimzontearz]

Also a lot of that script lacked full lines

[Bleachrude]

It probably is similar to the Return to Ostagar DLC for DA:O.

The DLC came out well after DA:O was released but it references objects from the original disc as well...

One of the more interesting things modders found is dialogue for Return to Ostagar on the original disc. What REALLY made it interesting was that the dialogue was between Alistair AND Loghain.

This is _NOT_ possible in any version of the game, which means that in the development cycle, they originally had both Loghain and Alistair as recruitable together, worked a little on ostagar, then simply changed their minds about recruiting both.

It's an interesting clue into Bioware's creation of games...

[chemiclord]

Jonathan Seagull wrote...

Look, I can understand not being satisfied with how certain criticisms are addressed.  But this claim that BioWare just completely ignores all negative feedback strikes me as disingenuous, to say the least.

It's because they need Bioware as an enemy.  They need to convince themselves Bioware is this malicious entity actively seeking to hurt them... because otherwise they wouldn't have proper justification for their preposterous level of raw emotional rage.

[Taboo]

chemiclord wrote...

Jonathan Seagull wrote...

Look, I can understand not being satisfied with how certain criticisms are addressed.  But this claim that BioWare just completely ignores all negative feedback strikes me as disingenuous, to say the least.

It's because they need Bioware as an enemy.  They need to convince themselves Bioware is this malicious entity actively seeking to hurt them... because otherwise they wouldn't have proper justification for their preposterous level of raw emotional rage.

I could kiss you.

[Kunari801]

AlanC9 wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...
I wonder that too, I had hoped fro more out of the EC than we got. For one: I'd like to have seen more fleshed out Priority:Earth missions before the beam run. Use those MP Earth maps even. Maybe they needed Microsoft's permission but the "two-part-download" idea isn't that hard imagine.

From what I've seen from inside large corporations, imagining something and getting the approvals you need to actually do that something are two very different propositions.

True, that's why I wonder if it was MS or BW that was preventing going over the 2GB limit with two downloads. My money is on MS.  

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Taboo-XX wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

Jonathan Seagull wrote...

Look, I can understand not being satisfied with how certain criticisms are addressed.  But this claim that BioWare just completely ignores all negative feedback strikes me as disingenuous, to say the least.

It's because they need Bioware as an enemy.  They need to convince themselves Bioware is this malicious entity actively seeking to hurt them... because otherwise they wouldn't have proper justification for their preposterous level of raw emotional rage.

I could kiss you.

I for one never had said anything about those issues. I do believe that they dismissed a lot of ending criticism that did have a valid claim of the ending not being connected to the story. I want to know who thought the execution was good. As for DA2, I've never even played DA at all. Don't really have a desire to either. I don't deal with swords and sorcery.

I don't view them as malicious entities trying to hurt me.

I do view several of them as complete idiots and having a very bad PR problem in the last year.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 23 avril 2013 - 01:15 .